akjetBlue
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Sad State Of Affairs In The USA With Bush

Sun Mar 07, 2004 12:41 am

Save a horse! Ride a Cowboy!
 
yanksn4
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RE: Sad State Of Affairs In The USA With Bush

Sun Mar 07, 2004 12:50 am

I can't wait until the night of Election Day when President George W. Bush is re-elected to his second four-year turn in office. I can't wait to see how those idiot Liberals are going to react when the citizens of the United States of America keep George W. Bush as President. And you know when they lose, they are just going to try and start up another controversy over votes and going to cry about it for another four years.
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Alpha 1
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RE: Sad State Of Affairs In The USA With Bush

Sun Mar 07, 2004 12:58 am

Yanksn4, fine with me if you want to live in a fascists state. Enjoy it.
 
airplay
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RE: Sad State Of Affairs In The USA With Bush

Sun Mar 07, 2004 1:25 am

I have never seen so much venom aimed at a US president by American people. I think that a great deal of the criticism is justified. Of course there have been scandals in the past, but to my memory, never so much direct criticism of foreign and domestic policy.

I certainly hope Americans vote accordingly. I think it is commonly acknowledged that if there were a high voter turnout that Bush would NOT be sitting in the Whitehouse after November.
 
yanksn4
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RE: Sad State Of Affairs In The USA With Bush

Sun Mar 07, 2004 1:27 am

Alpha 1, how is President George W. Bush fascists? He is more around being a central republican. I mean he has given amnesty to illegal Mexican immigrants, and has given money to the National Endownment of Arts.
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Guest

RE: Sad State Of Affairs In The USA With Bush

Sun Mar 07, 2004 1:30 am

I think it is commonly acknowledged that if there were a high voter turnout that Bush would NOT be sitting in the Whitehouse after November.

Source please ?
 
Sabena 690
Posts: 6065
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RE: Sad State Of Affairs In The USA With Bush

Sun Mar 07, 2004 3:14 am

Yanksn4: you are just one of those frustrated extremists who hate people just because they are a 'liberal'. Not the Liberals are idiots, also not the Conservatives, but extremists like you who hate the others.

I let the choice to the American people: personally I prefer Kerry, but when the majority of the Americans elect Bush, it's up to me to respect that choice.
Bearing in mind that the majority of the American citizens are normal people, I have no clue what the outcome of the elections will be. Neither have the extreme-left voters (like we have several on this board), neither have the extreme-right voters (like you).

Do note this is coming from a moderate Republican...
 
radarbeam
Posts: 998
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RE: Sad State Of Affairs In The USA With Bush

Sun Mar 07, 2004 3:18 am

Yanksn4, I wouldn't be so confident if I were you. You might be too blinded by your unconditional love for Bush to see that there is alot of people in the US that want him out.
 
jamesag96
Posts: 2007
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RE: Sad State Of Affairs In The USA With Bush

Sun Mar 07, 2004 3:23 am

Actually, while there are those blinded by their love for Bush, I fear far more are blinded and easily swayed as a result of their own stupidity and/or ignorance...as exhibited on here far too often.

Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Sad State Of Affairs In The USA With Bush

Sun Mar 07, 2004 4:08 am

He is more around being a central republican.

Good God, if he's a center Republincan, God help the Republic if we ever get a "conservative." Fact is this guy is an extremist. His administartion isn't conservative Republican, it's an extremist administration.

Thanks for the laugh, though.  Laugh out loud

Source please ?

History, GoEVA. Higher turnouts in Presidential elecitons have traditionally favored Democratic candidates. And that's why more than just anger is needed to beat this nut back to Crawford. It will take a higher voter turnout to beat him and send him back home. Now, bless that.
 
commander_rabb
Posts: 723
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RE: Sad State Of Affairs In The USA With Bush

Sun Mar 07, 2004 5:35 am

Some clown keeps referring to the United States as a fascist state.

I would suggest a good history book on fascism across the world. THEN come back and apologize for the gross mis-use of the word.

And just what is this "Sad State of Affairs in the USA With Bush" dribble?




 
Sabena 690
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RE: Sad State Of Affairs In The USA With Bush

Sun Mar 07, 2004 5:42 am

And just what is this "Sad State of Affairs in the USA With Bush" dribble

Something you don't want to know anyway, C_Rabb... For people like you, every remark anti-Bush is made by Liberal Communists who are true idiots.

Why would anyone bother to start a debate with you on this? You don't care anyway... Keep on living in your fantasy world!
 
smithfly114
Posts: 236
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RE: Sad State Of Affairs In The USA With Bush

Sun Mar 07, 2004 5:42 am

Yanksn4 I agree 100%

"I can't wait to see how those idiot Liberals are going to react when the citizens of the United States of America keep George W. Bush as President."

-Me too, it will be a great day, and I will love to see what the left comes up with to complain about next

Yanksn4 you are the honorary 1st addition to my respected users list!

-CCS
 
aloges
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RE: Sad State Of Affairs In The USA With Bush

Sun Mar 07, 2004 5:48 am

Sheesh, I really want to see the reaction of certain forum members on the day John Kerry is elected President - you know, both GWB and JFK have chances to be (re-)elected. And given the arrogance of some who think GWB is some sort of a saint who can only be re-elected, I'd love to see what happens if he isn't.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
commander_rabb
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RE: Sad State Of Affairs In The USA With Bush

Sun Mar 07, 2004 5:56 am

Want a debate 690? Show me why the United States is a fascist state? Show me how the United States is in a sad state of affairs?

Instead of assuming my position incorrectly which you have done so magnificently, why don't you absolve yourself from American political affairs and concentrate on your own Belgian affairs.

As far as caring? You are right, I could care less of your position. It means nothing to me or the citizens of this country. Absolutely nothing.

Sorry for the reality check there bucko.

 
smithfly114
Posts: 236
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RE: Sad State Of Affairs In The USA With Bush

Sun Mar 07, 2004 5:57 am

Just want to clarify - I DO NOT think he is a saint, and along political lines he is far to moderate/centrist for me, if there was another more conservative cannidate, he would get my vote.

I just happen to think that the American public is going to be quite suprised come November.
-CCS
 
aloges
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RE: Sad State Of Affairs In The USA With Bush

Sun Mar 07, 2004 6:01 am

Commander_Rabb, do you ever care what others think about you or what other peoples think about your country? If not, here's a small hint for you: attitudes like yours made the 9/11 attacks happen.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
commander_rabb
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RE: Sad State Of Affairs In The USA With Bush

Sun Mar 07, 2004 6:07 am

I care only for the significant. A fellow and his simple idea in Belgium does not qualify as significant.

A German teenager also assuming that he knows my attitude counts as insignificant too.

Wow, two reality checks in 5 minutes.

 
Klaus
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Aloges

Sun Mar 07, 2004 6:10 am

Not exactly. The terrorists´ fanaticism did.

But supplying the terrorists with a broad and consolidating base of sympathizers in the muslim world by alienating everybody from the USA certainly helped tip the scales.

And the Iraq war has only further helped them along.

What do terrorists want? To terrify their victims.
What has the Bush administration done since 9/11? Keep the american population in a constant state of shock and fear!

If anybody could say "mission accomplished" it´s the terrorists!  Sad
 
Sabena 690
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RE: Sad State Of Affairs In The USA With Bush

Sun Mar 07, 2004 6:13 am

Even more conservative?! Bush centre? Djeezes, where is the world going to...

@C_Rabb

Show me how the United States is in a sad state of affairs?

I will counter you with a question: have you ever wondered why there is so much hate towards the US these days? I can assure you it's not because the US is better than the rest, this is only a stupid belief of some extreme right individuals who are convinced that the US is superior, and that the world has to change to all values represented by the US.

If you want to solve terrorism/..., this is the first question you have to answer: why do they hate us. Solve this, take the hate-feeling away, and terrorism will stop. It's not by declaring wars/by having xenophobic feelings/... that you will make from the US a better country.

Why I find the US is in a sad state of affairs: you answered it yourself: why don't you absolve yourself from American political affairs and concentrate on your own Belgian affairs. I could care less of your position. It means nothing to me or the citizens of this country. Absolutely nothing.

It is this arrogance that makes people like me disgusted of your administration, and of people like you.
You seem to forget that the decisions of Bush also influence us.
Politics is not something that goes about the US only, the world doesn't turn around the US. The decisions taken by your administration have a big influence on the politics/economics/... of my country, so yes, I do care about international politics.

Hope you get it now?
 
Sabena 690
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RE: Aloges

Sun Mar 07, 2004 6:16 am

If anybody could say "mission accomplished" it´s the terrorists!

It makes me very sad I have to agree on this.

Look at the world before and after 9/11 and check the difference. They got us exactly where they wanted us to have.

Bush used 9/11 as an argument to go into Iraq, and this is something I'm furious about. Even now in his advertisement campaign, he uses 9/11. It only makes me more and more disgusted about him and his politics.
 
smithfly114
Posts: 236
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RE: Sad State Of Affairs In The USA With Bush

Sun Mar 07, 2004 6:20 am

Bush is very much a centrist. Look at his positions, he is catering to the minority vote and barely touching on the religious aspects (it took him forever to make any decisions or have any comments on the gay marriage issue, and I’m not saying he should or not, just pointing it out.) Many true Independent Conservatives such as myself will also agree that Bush is very much a centrist Republican.
-CCS
 
Sabena 690
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RE: Sad State Of Affairs In The USA With Bush

Sun Mar 07, 2004 6:27 am

CCS: you are talking about internal issues, I'm talking about international politics.
 
aloges
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RE: Sad State Of Affairs In The USA With Bush

Sun Mar 07, 2004 6:45 am

Commander_Rabb, since you go so nuts when somebody assumes your position incorrectly (reply 14), you should read what others write "If not, here's a small hint for you: attitudes like yours made the 9/11 attacks happen." Who said the answer couldn't have been "yes, I do care about others and their opinions every once in a while"? Shows that I wasn't assuming anything, right?

But as for reading what others write, I already know that you don't really excel at that...

"Wow, two reality checks in 5 minutes." LOL... If you knew one bit!
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
blink182
Posts: 5278
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RE: Sad State Of Affairs In The USA With Bush

Sun Mar 07, 2004 6:57 am

Next election is going to be great when Bush finds out he doesn't have a job.
Bush is partly why I made my signature what it is.

I personally find it hilarious that people constantly criticize Clinton for the Lewinsky scandal, and even as a liberal, I am sure he did lie. However, that scandal had no affect whatsoever on the American people.

Bush's lies are a bit different- he has wasted billions of dollars, hundreds of people have died, and hundreds more are being tracked/held without access to a lawyer and with no charges filed. All because of a lie.
... and then he cuts pay/housing/medical expenses for soldiers?

Not exactly the same types of lies.

blink
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
vafi88
Posts: 2981
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RE: Sad State Of Affairs In The USA With Bush

Sun Mar 07, 2004 6:59 am

Bush isn't a centrist one bit, and you guys know it.

First, the reason he didn't respond to the gay issue was because the state of California was supposed to *take care* of the issue first. He is very conservative to say the least. Did you also know that everyday, him and his cabinet members pray together? That's where a lot of his ideas come from. About marriage and about homosexuals.

If he could separate church and state, he would do it in a heart beat.

He doesn't care about the rest of the world (as proven in Iraq) and that's why A LOT of countries hate the US. International relations are VERY limited as of this time. Even Clinton had things better off and fought to make people respect and enjoy the US by caring about other nations' opinions, unlike you(com.Rabb,Smithfly), or GWB.
I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
 
yanksn4
Posts: 1367
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RE: Sad State Of Affairs In The USA With Bush

Sun Mar 07, 2004 7:06 am

Come on Vafi88, look at the centrist opinions he has made:

- he has given money to the NEA
- he has given amnesty to illegal Mexicans
- his senate is spending money like crazy

He should be more conservitive on these issues. He should not give illegal Mexicans amnesty, he should not give money to the NEA, and he should tell congress to cut back on spending a little.
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jessman
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RE: Sad State Of Affairs In The USA With Bush

Sun Mar 07, 2004 1:33 pm

I will counter you with a question: have you ever wondered why there is so much hate towards the US these days? I can assure you it's not because the US is better than the rest, this is only a stupid belief of some extreme right individuals who are convinced that the US is superior, and that the world has to change to all values represented by the US.

If you want to solve terrorism/..., this is the first question you have to answer: why do they hate us. Solve this, take the hate-feeling away, and terrorism will stop. It's not by declaring wars/by having xenophobic feelings/... that you will make from the US a better country.

Q:Why do Extremist Islamic Terrorists Hate America?
A:1)Because we are not forced to be muslim.
2)Because we are happy.
3)Because we are free to be happily not forced to be muslim.
4)Because we are rich.
5)Because we are allowed to be happy that we are rich non muslims.
6)Because we support Israel, which is a KEY STRATEGIC ALLY in the middle east.
7)Because they hate Israel.
8)Because Israel is 1-5.
9)Because their own governments allow us to station troops over there in spite of 1-6.
10)In one short answer they hate us because of our prosperity.

Solution?
A:Convert to Sharia Law, become a muslim state
B:Quit being prosperous.
C:Quit supporting those that would support us.
D:Quit opposing those that would destroy us.


Sometimes that which is good for the United States of America is not that which Germany would do. Perhaps having a McDonalds in every corner of the globe is disheartening, maybe MTV isn't the best representation of the United States; BUT IT SELLS. It makes money. Its good for the US. It's good for our economy, our jobs, our prosperity.

I hate that the US military is the De Facto world police force under the UN. I don't like the UN. I don't think it's really good for the US. Everyone applauded when President Clinton sent the troops to Kosovo. I really don't see a huge difference between that and Iraq.
It seems that Al-Quieda and other terrorist organizations are spending massive amounts of rescources trying to drive the US from Iraq. These rescources could have been used for attacks on the USA. If our Free, Volunteer military stopped one trajedy from happening here in the US just by being in Iraq, that justifies any expense in my book.

Solution E: Most people in this world would be happy to co-exist with the United States of America even if the US government does something that gets on their nerves. The feeling is mutual from the US. Kill or detain those that would actively try to destroy the United States at any cost.
 
Q330
Posts: 1425
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RE: Sad State Of Affairs In The USA With Bush

Sun Mar 07, 2004 3:54 pm

1)Because we are not forced to be muslim.
2)Because we are happy.
3)Because we are free to be happily not forced to be muslim.
4)Because we are rich.


There are many other countries that are free and prosperous, America is not the only one.

If our Free, Volunteer military stopped one trajedy from happening here in the US just by being in Iraq, that justifies any expense in my book.

What trajedy!? Why are you convinced that there would have been a trajedy? American lives have been lost on a hunch, not to mention other motives (ie. oil).

If anything, the Iraq war is fuel on the fire of anti-Americanism. Wouldn't you hate Iraqis if they Invaded the U.S.?

-Q

P.S. Thanks Alpha1, Sabena 690 and Klaus for your comments.
And come to think of it, it actually wouldn't be too bad if someone invaded the U.S. and did a little "regime changing."  Laugh out loud



Long live the A330!
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
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RE: Sad State Of Affairs In The USA With Bush

Sun Mar 07, 2004 3:57 pm

And come to think of it, it actually wouldn't be too bad if someone invaded the U.S. and did a little "regime changing."

Please do, and find out what my 30.06 can do.

OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Shawn Patrick
Posts: 2465
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RE: Sad State Of Affairs In The USA With Bush

Sun Mar 07, 2004 4:12 pm

Some of you conservatives need to take a bit of a history lesson in US foreign policy in the middle east, because it is the source of all the shit happening today. The PRIME SOURCE.

I'm not going to go through it all now, but I'll bring up some random things.

-1940s - Israel created, backed by the West. Palestine gets the short end of the stick
-Forcing into Iraq for oil
-Shah in Iran, Ayatolla Khomeini incident
-Israel problems
-Gulf war

Whoever said that arabs hate the US because we're prosperous, BS! It's easy to see why the arab nations are so pissed at the US *government*. Our problem is GWB is continuing to fuel the hatred by his extremism and stupid Iraq war. The sooner he's out, the sooner we can hope for better relations in the middle east and in all of the other countries he's alienated so far... Brazil.. ahem.

Shawn
 
jamesag96
Posts: 2007
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2001 2:59 am

RE: Sad State Of Affairs In The USA With Bush

Sun Mar 07, 2004 4:13 pm

Invade the U.S. What a stupid thing for you to say.

We don't hear much about "War for Oil" anymore...could that be because prices for gas in California are almost 2 1/2 bucks a gallon?
Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
 
smithfly114
Posts: 236
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 12:00 pm

RE: Sad State Of Affairs In The USA With Bush

Sun Mar 07, 2004 4:18 pm

Yanksn4: it seems to be that you and I are the only ones who realize Bush is a centrist. Like you states all of his policy decisions are made to please the masses and get votes. The only issue that he is conservative on is religion and gays, however he still is edgy about it and it has taken him forever to approach the subject firmly.
-CCS
 
VS340
Posts: 431
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 9:50 am

RE: Sad State Of Affairs In The USA With Bush

Sun Mar 07, 2004 4:32 pm

Bush is way too soft. I say John Ashcroft for president, that should improve things...dont you think?
 
Q330
Posts: 1425
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 5:30 pm

RE: Sad State Of Affairs In The USA With Bush

Sun Mar 07, 2004 5:06 pm

Invade the U.S. What a stupid thing for you to say.

First of all, it was a joke. However, what makes it so stupid? The U.S. can invade Iraq, why can't someone else invade the U.S. if they don't like the current regime?

I am not suggesting that someone should, but what gives the U.S. the right to do whatever they like?

-Q
Long live the A330!
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: Sad State Of Affairs In The USA With Bush

Sun Mar 07, 2004 6:50 pm

"Please do, and find out what my 30.06 can do."

LOL... Smells like an analogy to the things happening in Iraq, doesn't it?
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
yanksn4
Posts: 1367
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 10:05 am

RE: Sad State Of Affairs In The USA With Bush

Sun Mar 07, 2004 11:54 pm

Q330, the reason we invaded Iraq was because they had weapons of mass destruction. They were building their nuclear program to where if we let it sit for a while, they would have had a nuclear bomb to threaten the world with. Plus we took out a blood thirsty cold blooded murder. How can you disagree with that? He gassed his own people and would tortured them for days and months end. If anything, President George W. Bush should be praised standing up to these thugs and protecting the United States of America and the world.


B U S H - C H E N E Y 2004
2013 Airports: EWR, JFK, LGA, LIS, AGP, DEN, GIG, RGN, BKK, LHR, FRA, LAX, SYD, PER, MEL, MCO, MIA, PEK, IAH
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: Sad State Of Affairs In The USA With Bush

Mon Mar 08, 2004 12:12 am

And what about Musharraf and Pakistan's nuclear weapons? What about Kim Jong Il and North Korea's nuclear weapons? What about Castro? What about Mugabe? Aren't they all "blood thirsty cold blooded murder"ers? So why was the Iraqi people, and none else, chosen to be "liberated"?

Don't tell me Iraq was invaded for any other reasons than strategic ones. And it's very unlikely things are the way the Bush admin "planned" them to be.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
jamesag96
Posts: 2007
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2001 2:59 am

RE: Sad State Of Affairs In The USA With Bush

Mon Mar 08, 2004 12:14 am

Well you are comparing the Current Administration to the Previous Iraqi regime...if you are serious that makes you an ignorant person who has said something stupid.
Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: Sad State Of Affairs In The USA With Bush

Mon Mar 08, 2004 12:17 am

You're saying what?  Confused I'm not comparing Bush to anyone, I'm comparing Iraq's "WMDs" to North Korea's WMDs, and Saddam Hussein to Kim Jong Il.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
jamesag96
Posts: 2007
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2001 2:59 am

RE: Sad State Of Affairs In The USA With Bush

Mon Mar 08, 2004 12:21 am

Not you...the kid from Australia...timing was off.
Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: Sad State Of Affairs In The USA With Bush

Mon Mar 08, 2004 12:23 am

Oh, I see. Never mind!  Smile
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
texan
Posts: 4061
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 2:23 am

RE: Sad State Of Affairs In The USA With Bush

Mon Mar 08, 2004 1:20 am

Alpha, please stop saying "send him back home to Crawford." We don't want him! Send him back to his true home: Connecticut (New Haven, I think)!

Texan
"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
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RE: Sad State Of Affairs In The USA With Bush

Mon Mar 08, 2004 1:37 am

This talk of Bush as a "Centrist", is one of the funniest things I've ever read in my life. This guy is no centrist. Not even close.

-He wants an Amendment to the Constitution to keep Gays in their playce.
-He uses force as a first option in Iraq, not as a last resort.
-He spearheads the Patriot Act, one of the most vile acts ever passed.
-He gives approval to holding American Citizens without charge, counsel or contatc with family.
-He gives out huge tax breaks, mostly to corporate buddies, at a time of increased spending, putting us into huge deficit spending.
-He shungs friends and allies who don't agree with him.

These are not the views of a "centrist", but a far-right extremist. So, those of you who are pretending he's a centrist, stop trying to con the rest of us. He's not, and, conversely, you're not, if you agree with his policies. He's probably further to the right than any modern President. And he needs to find a new address.
 
jamesag96
Posts: 2007
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2001 2:59 am

RE: Sad State Of Affairs In The USA With Bush

Mon Mar 08, 2004 4:19 am

Alpha...just about everything you listed is your personal opinion.

Re: Amendment on Gays...currently it IS the law, and he is faced with legislative judges that are choosing to defy the law...you did know that the judge that has chosen not to stop marriages in San Fran is gay right? For the record, I think he is severely wrong on this...

Re: Iraq war...first option? How much longer should he have waited...or did you conveniently forget that the only reason the UN got anywhere leading up to the war was the hundreds of thousands of soldiers in the region, and then still didn't declare what he was supposed to. No WMD's as of yet not-withstanding, Iraq had been declared in non-compliance with YEARS of UN mandates...what good is a mandate if it is not backed up.

Re: Patriot act, your opinion plain and simple.

Re: Those held...American citizens, few and far between are being held for suspected terrorist ties, the world changed on 9/11, that is the way it is.

Re: Tax breaks to his buddies...again your opinion no proof...deficit spending is not the devil you make it out to be.

Re: Friends and allies...If by this you mean Germany and France, they are looking out for themselves, so should we. Are you suggesting we ask others what we should do with regards to our safety? It has already come out that France, Germany, and Russia were doing things they weren't supposed to.

I personally think Bush is a bit right of Center, I think extremist I think Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell...he isn't there.

J
Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: Sad State Of Affairs In The USA With Bush

Mon Mar 08, 2004 5:01 am

Alpha...just about everything you listed is your personal opinion.

How are they opinion? They all are fact-every one of them, and they are not the policies that anyone could honestly call "centrist". Not even close.

Re: Those held...American citizens, few and far between are being held for suspected terrorist ties, the world changed on 9/11, that is the way it is.

"That's the way it is." Let's see you say that if one of your family members is taken with no charge and no counsel. That kind of thinking is a bit fascist, if you ask me. I'm sure the good German volk said the same thing when people starting being arrested for no reason in the 1930's.

Re: Friends and allies...If by this you mean Germany and France, they are looking out for themselves, so should we.

Yes, but we tried to PUNISH them for looking out for themselves, didn't we? We treated them like enemies, for DARING to look after their own interests. Hypocritical, in the least.

I think extremist I think Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell...he isn't there.

Bush is as big a Christian Zealot as those nuts you mentioned, imho.
 
Klaus
Posts: 20622
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Sad State Of Affairs In The USA With Bush

Mon Mar 08, 2004 5:22 am

Alpha 1: "That's the way it is." Let's see you say that if one of your family members is taken with no charge and no counsel. That kind of thinking is a bit fascist, if you ask me. I'm sure the good German volk said the same thing when people starting being arrested for no reason in the 1930's.

That is exactly what I was thinking when I read that. You need to be completely ignorant of historical precedents to say something as stupid as that. This is exactly how fascism works: "Shut up and obey! That's the way it is. You won´t disagree with the government, will you???"


Jamesag96: Re: Friends and allies...If by this you mean Germany and France, they are looking out for themselves, so should we.

Actually, the "what´s in it for us" angle was almost completely absent from the discussion in Germany. Germany and many other nations have strong interests in a functioning United Nations and see them as the only possible basis of a legitimate world order.

Degrading the UN to servant status for the whims of an ideological US administration caused more anger and frustration than you would believe - and ignoring this will turn out to be a major strategic mistake.

Oil contracts don´t figure nearly as high in the european political arena as in the USA; Europe is focusing a lot more on alternative energy sources. And much of european oil imports are coming from sources outside the middle east anyway.


Jamesag96: I think extremist I think Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell...he isn't there.

Still having a couple of even-more-extreme nut cases hanging on to the fringe doesn´t mean you´re standing in the center. Not even in the highly conservative american spectrum. The "center" is just that - you´ve got about the same number of people to either side; It´s not just "the center is where I am!"  Wink/being sarcastic
 
jamesag96
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RE: Sad State Of Affairs In The USA With Bush

Mon Mar 08, 2004 6:05 am

Well it isn't my family that are training in Afghanistan, they aren't funding terrorists, nor have they any explosives on their person, nor have they made terroristic threats. If they had done ANY of the above, I would turn them in myself, so drop the Nazi Germany comparison bullshit.

"Yes, but we tried to PUNISH them for looking out for themselves, didn't we? We treated them like enemies, for DARING to look after their own interests. Hypocritical, in the least."

How is that hypocritical? They actively pursued avenues that would hinder our enforcing the UN mandates...isn't that counter productive, could it have been because of their own investments in a regime they denounce? That sir is hypocritical.

I respectfully disagree with your assessment of GWB being in the same league as JF and PR politically, he is indeed a very religious man which is not a crime nor should be looked at negatively, he isn't as far right as the others politically, surely you can see that.

Klaus

"You need to be completely ignorant of historical precedents to say something as stupid as that. This is exactly how fascism works: "Shut up and obey! That's the way it is. You won´t disagree with the government, will you???"

Oh I am well aware of the precedent set forth by some nuts in German in the last century...I disagree with my elected government on several issues, but I don't break laws, I don't threaten people with violence, I don't have a history of involvement with extremists, and I have not been caught in a combat zone.

"Actually, the "what´s in it for us" angle was almost completely absent from the discussion in Germany. Germany and many other nations have strong interests in a functioning United Nations and see them as the only possible basis of a legitimate world order."

What? The "What's in it for us" card was played, before, during, and especially now. They didn't want to lose out on the money that a dictator owed them, they didn't want to upset the "Oil for food" programs they had set up, and surely you have heard of the multitude of bitching emanating from "old Europe" with regards to contract not being awarded their way...The UN is a joke, and that status was self-imposed.

"Degrading the UN to servant status for the whims of an ideological US administration caused more anger and frustration than you would believe - and ignoring this will turn out to be a major strategic mistake."

If by "servant status" you mean enforcement, than I guess you are right.

"Oil contracts don´t figure nearly as high in the European political arena as in the USA; Europe is focusing a lot more on alternative energy sources. And much of European oil imports are coming from sources outside the middle east anyway."

Oh they figure in, not as much as here in the states, but they do in fact figure in...weren't the big oil companies in Iraq prior to the war European based?

GWB in my opinion is Right of Center, but by no means far right...

Ashcroft? Far Right.

J

Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
 
Q330
Posts: 1425
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 5:30 pm

RE: Sad State Of Affairs In The USA With Bush

Mon Mar 08, 2004 7:20 am

Once again, Jamesag96 you didn't get it. I was not comparing the Bush administration to Saddam's regime, but I was trying to make the point that Bush thinks the U.S. can throw its weight around however it likes. What gives the U.S. the right to invade whoever they like?

Q330, the reason we invaded Iraq was because they had weapons of mass destruction.

As one of you might say to Alpha1, where's the proof!? WE DIDN'T FIND ANY WMDs!!

-Q
Long live the A330!
 
Q330
Posts: 1425
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 5:30 pm

RE: Sad State Of Affairs In The USA With Bush

Mon Mar 08, 2004 7:25 am

GWB in my opinion is Right of Center, but by no means far right...

Ashcroft? Far Right.


That's partly the point. GWB is the least of it. There's also Cheney, Ashcroft, Rumsfeld, etc. who have considerable power too.

-Q
Long live the A330!

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