747-600X
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Americans In Favor Of Torture

Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:38 pm

Today, a teenager by the name of Lee Boyd Malvo was sentenced to life in prison without parole.

Malvo killed a man when he was seventeen and under the guide of John Allen Muhammad, who killed several others during an infamous several-week killing spree, here in America.

In response to this sentence, let me express what must be prefaced as my personal opinion:

This is incivil, inhuman, and outright torture. This child, who made a mistake of inordinate proportion, will never see the light of freedom again. His mistake warrants gargantuan reparation, but none has been granted. The family of the deceased will gain nothing, and this child will be destroyed. Better, for certain, to have sentenced him to death, than to let him rot, forever, in a cell.
What Malvo needs is help, and lots of it. Therapy, counselling, and psychiatric evaluations. I will tell you plainly that any of several million teenagers in America would, if under the right pressure or conditions, act in ways which would surprise and scare the living h_ll out of you. Malvo's acts were, of course, horrific and wrong, but all that has happened now is that we have denied him his humanity and stuck him in a hole. Of course, there are those who say, "He deserves it." Let me make this point clear: No one deserves it, and certainly not a child. At Malvo's then-age, 17, he was in as confused and discombobulated a stage as any teenager is. It's important that he be held accountable for his actions and made to pay for them in a manner which will teach him right from wrong, but now, instead, I and all other Americans will be paying for him to spend the rest of his life decaying. That kind of treatment is definitively torture. It is not only as bad as what he has done, it is worse. It does nothing to correct a wrong or let learning or healing come from it; it merely increases the amount of death and destruction in the world. I cannot call that justice.

Also, there are those who would say, "You'd feel differently if you were the family." To which I must reply: Probably, which is a good thing. The law should be about more than revenge, so it's good that I and the jury weren't family. Our reaction should be more unbiased and level-headed, able to see past the deed to the cause, which clearly is mental ailment of one degree or another.

So, to Lee Malvo, I say this - hopefully, there will come a time when an executive is given the power to pardon you under condition of intense mental treatment and close monitoring. Until then, I see no virtue in destroying one life simply because another was destroyed, so I hope the best for you. Empathy makes an offal ass out of one, but I cannot choose to be apathetic, so I'll be an ass, and wish for your wellbeing the same.

In conclusion, I must expound on the comment made that, "the family will gain nothing," which many would say is untrue. Many would say that the family will gain "peace of mind" or something like that. That is not true. In a fight, you do not gain true peace of mind by winning or beating the bully up. It inflates something egoistic and sick, it sets you to beleive that destroying one person is good enough to make up for the destruction of another. So, to the family of the deceased, let me say this: I would hope that you do not find peace of mind from this, for now you have multiplied the destruction of humanity two-fold. Your son cannot come back to you; I hope you understand how sick it is to find satisfaction in knowing that someone else's can now never come back to them.
 
IMissPiedmont
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RE: Americans In Favor Of Torture

Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:42 pm

This "child" as you put it, should never see freedom again. If, as you seem to think, he was manipulated, he belongs in a mental institution for life. But then I admit to knowing right from wrong when I was 16 years old.

And the governor who pardons this piece of crap has yet to be born.
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
vafi88
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RE: Americans In Favor Of Torture

Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:54 pm

He should've definitely recieved the highest penalty. I'm not wasting tax dollars on some kid who *should be* by your views, treated. At 16, you should know what's going on.
I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
 
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Jetsgo
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RE: Americans In Favor Of Torture

Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:54 pm

I think you stand mostly alone here...This "child" had a sick passion for sniping innocent people. Something that will never change for him. I hope he burns to hell in the prisons. He was 17, he knew what he was doing....Sad as it is.


God Bless all those effected by these two "men's" terrible choices.


Chris
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SlamClick
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RE: Americans In Favor Of Torture

Thu Mar 11, 2004 2:12 pm

Anyone old enough to drive a car is old enough to be sentenced to death or life in prison. If you are not old enough for all adult responsibilities you are not old enough for any adult responsibilities.

There are a long list of adult prerogatives that 17-year-olds would like to claim for themselves including sex, drinking, drug use, and expressing opinions on the internet. Well guess what! Along with some of these things come the adult penalties. Happy birthday.

And just by the way, I knew precisely how wrong it was to kill a person when I was seven not seventeen.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
Guest

RE: Americans In Favor Of Torture

Thu Mar 11, 2004 2:20 pm

Americans In Favor Of Torture

May you never be faced with someone in your family being slaughtered, in cold blood, for no reason, and then laughed over.

May God bring peace and comfort to those whose loved-ones were given no chance.
 
jcs17
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RE: Americans In Favor Of Torture

Thu Mar 11, 2004 2:24 pm

Its pretty disappointing he didn't get the death penalty, I would've loved to see that bastard fry with Mohammed. Any one over the age of ten should be able to be put to death for the crime of murder. The bastard laughed! He laughed after killing people.... Enough said, our justice system is a joke.
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artsyman
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RE: Americans In Favor Of Torture

Thu Mar 11, 2004 2:34 pm

According to the evidence, this child actually did all the killing, not just a few as you suggest.

J
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Americans In Favor Of Torture

Thu Mar 11, 2004 2:37 pm

This is incivil, inhuman, and outright torture.

As opposed to him taking the part in the murder of several people, and terrorizing a whole region? What do you suppose we do for him? Throw him a party, and celebrate what a fine chap he is?

In most cases, I'm not for the death penalty. but Muhammad deserves that sentence in this case, and since Malvo is basically underaged, I have no problem with him getting the sentence of life without parole.

The title of your thread, by the way, is insulting to most Americans. This isn't torture, putting this kid behind bars for life. It's justice for all the lives he and that other nut played fast and loose with.

Just wait, gang, if OBL gets captured. Maybe our friend who authored this thread will come to his defense, too.
 
jutes85
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RE: Americans In Favor Of Torture

Thu Mar 11, 2004 2:50 pm

If you intentionally kill someone, without guilt or remorse, they should be executed. If you take a life, yours should also be taken.

BTW: Vitaly, I think you are a little too young to pay taxes.  Big grin
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emiratesa345
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RE: Americans In Favor Of Torture

Thu Mar 11, 2004 3:39 pm

If you don't want your tax money wasted on keeping him in prison for life, then maybe you would agree with putting him out of his misery and ending his life? There is no need for people like that.

EmiratesA345 Smile/happy/getting dizzy
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tbar220
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RE: Americans In Favor Of Torture

Thu Mar 11, 2004 4:53 pm

As opposed to him taking the part in the murder of several people, and terrorizing a whole region? What do you suppose we do for him? Throw him a party, and celebrate what a fine chap he is?

Now wait a minute, I don't think that 747 was saying that. He never insinuated or said anything of the above. If you read his post carefully, he says that the teenager should go through intense counseling and psychological therapy while detained, not just rot away in a jail cell.

There's no need for you to put words and ideas in his mouth.
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saintsman
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RE: Americans In Favor Of Torture

Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:09 pm

747-600X

You've made a big thing about him being a child. If a few days later he was old enough to be classed a man would that make it okay?

He was old enough to know right from wrong. I don't think there is any child in the world who is brought up to believe that murder is accptable. He may well have been lead astray, but ultimately he knew he was wrong.
 
QIguy24
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RE: Americans In Favor Of Torture

Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:24 pm

I personally is against deathpenalty. No one deserves to die even tough the make a terrible crime. Have you ever been thinking that the executioner also commits a crime when he is opening for the gas to the gaschamber or when he injects the poison in another persons body? He should also be convicted then because he kills another person and get the deathpenalty. Correct me if Im wrong. But I just dont think its fair.

And I know that it sucks to pay taxes for inmates, I do it my self her in Denmark. so I agree with you on that. But it still isn't right to take another mans life because of money.
 
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sebolino
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RE: Americans In Favor Of Torture

Thu Mar 11, 2004 6:16 pm

If "without parole" means he will for sure die in jail, I think it's not only a stupid judgment, but a dangerous one.
What do you think will do this kid in jail if he knows he will never get out ? He will become extremely violent, and probably will turn crazy in a few years.
That's not a penalty.

He should have a life in prison with a possibility to get out in 25/30 years if some experts find him not dangerous anymore (in my opinion of course).
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Americans In Favor Of Torture

Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:10 pm

He should have a life in prison with a possibility to get out in 25/30 years if some experts find him not dangerous anymore (in my opinion of course).

The people he killed don't have a chance to come back alive in 25/30 years, to get a "parole", do they? Neither should he, for such a horrible act. The penalty fith the crime.

Seb, don't you Europeans think ANYONE should pay an ultimate price for ANY crime?  Smile
 
QIguy24
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RE: Americans In Favor Of Torture

Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:17 pm

don't you Europeans think ANYONE should pay an ultimate price for ANY crime?

Actually no...... Lets say it was any of your family members that was the shooter. Would you still accept that he/she gets the ultimate punishment? I dont think so. You would change your opinion of deathpenalty right away...
 
Guest

RE: Americans In Favor Of Torture

Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:24 pm

Actually, I think in many ways a "life without possibility of parole" sentence is harder to face.

As a long time tax payer, I'm more than happy to do my part to keep this cockroach in the "stone lonely" to the end.

Remember, the purpose of prison is to PUNISH not re-habilitate. This individual needs a LOT of punishment.

- Jeff
 
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sebolino
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RE: Americans In Favor Of Torture

Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:31 pm

The people he killed don't have a chance to come back alive in 25/30 years, to get a "parole", do they?

I find this argument sensless, and in a way, very extremist.
Do you think then that a raper should be raped ?
A thief should be stolen ?
An exhibitionist should put in front of a naked girl ? (  Smile/happy/getting dizzy )

Justice is not (anymore) made to make people have a vengence. That's the main point most Americans refuse to accept.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Americans In Favor Of Torture

Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:33 pm

Actually no...... Lets say it was any of your family members that was the shooter. Would you still accept that he/she gets the ultimate punishment? I dont think so. You would change your opinion of deathpenalty right away..

First, I was talking about the Life Without Parole sentence, which to me, is an ultimate price, because there is no chance to literally see the light of day. And if it were a family member, and they did it, of course I wouldn't WANT them to face such a sentence? Who would? But sometimes, there HAS to be a consequence for our actions. Simply putting this youngster through some kind of counseling, and then letting him out when he's in his 40's, to me, isn't a stiff enough penalty for what he did.

Seems that punishment-true punishment, isn't something Europe wants to do to prisoners any more.
 
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sebolino
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RE: Americans In Favor Of Torture

Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:37 pm

Remember, the purpose of prison is to PUNISH not re-habilitate. This individual needs a LOT of punishment

It's partly true.
The problem is that if you don't try to keep the prisoners human, if they go out, they will still be beasts in the city.
In this case it's irrelevant, but if you don't try to re-habilitate a guy who spend 20 years in jail, you can be sure the society will be more dangerous when he's out than when he's in jail.
It means that all prisoners should be killed, doesn't it ?
 
Guest

RE: Americans In Favor Of Torture

Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:37 pm

Justice is not (anymore) made to make people have a vengence

Careful, you're confusing "satisfaction derived from the punishment" (revenge) with the punishment act itself.

Fact: He will be in prison a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time.

Fact: Some people may derive a sense of "revenge !" from that.

However, the fact remains his punishment means:

Fact: He will be in prison a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time.
 
QIguy24
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RE: Americans In Favor Of Torture

Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:42 pm

Alpha 1

Sorry about my post then.
I thought you ment the death penalty when you mentioned the ultimate penalty. Because all the times I have heard the ultimate penalty on american television it has always been refered to the death penalty.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Americans In Favor Of Torture

Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:46 pm

The problem is that if you don't try to keep the prisoners human, if they go out, they will still be beasts in the city.

Well, with Malvo, that isn't a problem, is it? He WON'T be coming out, so it's a moot point.

And there are, in most prisons, workshops and schooling that can take place, so that for those prisoners who have a reasonable or almost certain chance to get out, they will have a chance to be a better person in society. But that doesn't mean making it a country club, or to lessen their punishment.

 
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sebolino
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RE: Americans In Favor Of Torture

Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:51 pm

Careful, you're confusing "satisfaction derived from the punishment" (revenge) with the punishment act itself.

I don't think so.
The need for a revenge is the reason why death penalty is still used for example. It has for sure to do with the Christian culture.
 
Guest

RE: Americans In Favor Of Torture

Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:51 pm

It's partly true.
The problem is that if you don't try to keep the prisoners human, if they go out, they will still be beasts in the city.
In this case it's irrelevant, but if you don't try to re-habilitate a guy who spend 20 years in jail, you can be sure the society will be more dangerous when he's out than when he's in jail.
It means that all prisoners should be killed, doesn't it ?


Peace Sebolino,

Whatever re-hab activities are conducted on behalf of the inmates are all good things. We must, however, never lose sight of the REASON the prisoner is in prison... That was my only point.

God bless,

- Jeff
 
Guest

RE: Americans In Favor Of Torture

Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:00 pm

I don't think so.
The need for a revenge is the reason why death penalty is still used for example. It has for sure to do with the Christian culture.


I just saw this post... There is an age-old debate here in the US whether the death penalty is actually a deterrent or not, so you have not "unearthed" some new nugget of wisdom here.

As for the last part of your post (It has for sure to do with the Christian culture.), please comment.

As a Christian I find that comment offensive.

[Edited 2004-03-11 15:04:39]
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: Americans In Favor Of Torture

Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:00 pm

747-600X,

I can't believe that you think this situation is considered torture. I've seen some stupid statements made in this forum, but this one takes the cake.

Malvo knew killing people was wrong, but he did it, and thrived on it.

You want to know what torture is?
- Never again being able to look into the eyes of someone you would die for.
- Never again waking up to see the face of someone you adore.
- Never again taking a walk through a park holding the hand of the one you loved.
- Never again being able to hold the one you thought you'd live a lifetime with.
- Never again being able to hug your mom or dad.

That is torture. Wake up and smell the coffee and pray that you never have to go through what the victims families have gone through, and are still going through.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
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sebolino
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RE: Americans In Favor Of Torture

Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:13 pm

As for the last part of your post (It has for sure to do with the Christian culture.), please comment.

As a Christian I find that comment offensive.


I'm Christian too (at least I'm baptised).

The Christian culture tells that the faults must be expiated (english word ?) like Jesus did on the cross for the men's sins. That's the base of the Christian culture: you have to suffer for what you've done.

I say it as what I consider a fact, not as a judgment.
 
Guest

RE: Americans In Favor Of Torture

Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:19 pm

Crime and punishment thereof exist universally around the world.

The world is not universally Christian. Many punishments levied for crimes are more severe in Muslim countries... not a judgment, just an observation.

So I would still disagree with your premise.

I'm Christian too (at least I'm baptised).

Baptism does not make you a Christian. Having a relationship with God, made possible by Jesus Christ, would make you a Christian.

Jesus said: "Whosoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

That's all it takes.

God bless,

- Jeff
 
SlamClick
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RE: Americans In Favor Of Torture

Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:53 pm

I grow a little tired of the "debate" over whether or not capitol punishment is a deterrent to crime. It cannot be proved absolutely until we can prove why every one of us does every thing. I don't even know why I chose the particular coffee cup I am using right now. One thing is true on the face of it though.

No person who was executed ever went on after being executed to commit so much as a misdemeanor.

That's good enough for me.

And 747-600X you can forget "therapy, counseling and pyschiatric evaluations" Those things just don't exist. There is no proof that they can mend a person who is only slightly warped. Someone as broken as Malvo would only become "sophisticated" and more adept at scamming the system. It would be a nice thing if they do exist but they don't. The civilized world does not even have a good definition of "sanity" yet.

Prison is not so much about punishment as it is for the protection of the rest of us. We can only be protected from a person like this if he can never again roam among us.

In the next-to-last paragraph you used the word "offal."
Are you sure that is what you meant?
Look it up.
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FDXmech
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RE: Americans In Favor Of Torture

Fri Mar 12, 2004 1:30 am

Perhaps this post should be renamed, "Americans in Favor of Not Being Murdered".
You're only as good as your last departure.
 
Guest

RE: Americans In Favor Of Torture

Fri Mar 12, 2004 2:04 am

Perhaps this post should be renamed, "Americans in Favor of Not Being Murdered".

I agree. We need permission from 747-600X not to be hurt or killed. What's next:

Please don't shoot holes in me while I pump gas in my car?

Please don't blow my child away as I drop him off at school?

Please don't put a cigarette out in my eye ??


Come on 747-600X, what color is the sky in your world ?
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Americans In Favor Of Torture

Fri Mar 12, 2004 2:13 am

If you don't want your tax money wasted on keeping him in prison for life, then maybe you would agree with putting him out of his misery and ending his life?

Classic mistake.

Though I'm 100% in favor of death penalty in most circumstances where it's an option; there's no arguing with the fact that in most cases, it's two to three times more expensive for a state to execute the condemned than incarcerate them for 50yrs +.

THAT is the reason most states who did away with the death penalty opted for that decision, despite what many a treehugging hippy might suggest.



And if it were a family member, and they did it, of course I wouldn't WANT them to face such a sentence? Who would?

Me!

They did the crime, they pay (or lose) the time. F^ck em.



There is an age-old debate here in the US whether the death penalty is actually a deterrent or not

No there isnt.

It's been proven time and time again, in different studies, of different individuals, in different venues, of different walks of life... that THE DEATH PENALTY IS ~*NOT*~ A DETERRENT

I still say fry the bastards though  Smile/happy/getting dizzy





[Edited 2004-03-11 18:24:40]
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Americans In Favor Of Torture

Fri Mar 12, 2004 2:22 am

Lee Boyd Malvo


Ps, what the hell ~is~ this monster's name anyways?

The media started off as "John Lee Mohammad", then it became "John Lee Malvo", then "Lee Boyd Malvo", and yesterday CNN & FoxNews were calling him "John Lee Malvo" again.

How tough is it to figure out a name???
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
cptkrell
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RE: Americans In Favor Of Torture

Fri Mar 12, 2004 2:25 am

SlamClick writes: "No person who was executed ever went on after being executed to commit so much as a misdemeanor." -and- "Prison is not so much about punishment as it is for the protection of the rest of us."

I agree with this 100%. Irrespective of how eloquent arguments favoring other views have been presented over the years, I've never been convinced otherwise. Regards...Jack
all best; jack
 
MD-90
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RE: Americans In Favor Of Torture

Fri Mar 12, 2004 2:44 am

When Malvo is tried in Alabama, he's going to get the death penalty. Just wait and see. Personally, I'd be more afraid of dying than knowing I'd live out my natural life at least ALIVE, even if I was in prison.

And I do see the death penalty from a Christian point of view. I think of the death penalty as hastening the ULTIMATE judgement - when a man stands before God and has to answer for how he's lived his life. The death penalty hastens that process. Of course, there are lots of people who don't believe in God or aren't religious or whatever, so that can't be used as a policy rationale for the death penalty, but that is my personal belief.

And yet even Malvo, if he repented and asked God to forgive him, even he could go to Heaven.

http://crime.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.al.com/news/birminghamnews/index.ssf%3F/base/news/1073211513212640.xml

"I think the mood in Montgomery is overwhelmingly for the death penalty in cases like this," said Montgomery Police Chief John Wilson. "This business about being this little baby-faced 17-year-old boy that didn't have any idea what he was doing - that gets nowhere."

However, it doesn't necessarily mean he's actually going to die.

If an Alabama jury convicts Malvo of capital murder, it's unlikely he would die for his crimes since the state hasn't executed a juvenile in 43 years, according to a law professor who studies the death penalty for juveniles.

"Given Alabama's record, there's really no chance he'd be executed," said Victor Streib, a professor at Ohio Northern University who writes reports on the juvenile death penalty and tracks cases dating to 1973.

With 13 people who committed crimes as youths on Death Row, Alabama has the second largest juvenile Death Row. Texas, with a population six times larger than Alabama, has 28 juvenile offenders awaiting executions.

Another estimated two dozen to three dozen Alabama juveniles have been indicted on capital charges and are facing trials, said Bryan Stevenson, executive director of the Equal Justice Initiative, a Montgomery-based nonprofit law firm that represents indigent defendants.

Despite the numbers, Alabama courts have an unstable relationship with the juvenile death penalty. Numerous sentences are overturned. The last execution of a juvenile offender in Alabama was in 1961. And all 11 juveniles executed in Alabama since the 1800s have been black, their victims white.

"It's not some percentage. All of them were black. All of them had white victims," Streib said. "When I see a state that's 100 percent executing black offenders for white victims, that's unusual, so one worries about that."


Another example

Clay Crenshaw, chief of the capital crimes division in the Alabama attorney general's office, pointed out the case of Timothy Davis, on Alabama's Death Row since 1980.

"Tim Davis was 17 years old, and he sodomized a 69-year-old woman and stabbed her in the back 17 times, and robbed her to make a motorcycle payment," Crenshaw said. "I don't see any reason to exempt him from the death penalty just because he was 17 years old, and in that particular case he was married and had a job and was carrying on like an adult."

Crenshaw said Alabamians continue to support capital punishment for juveniles. "I certainly don't hear anything from the public or any kind of movement to exempt 16- or 17-year-old capital murderers from the death penalty," he said. "I think the only people arguing for that are anti-death penalty advocates."

 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Americans In Favor Of Torture

Fri Mar 12, 2004 3:03 am

And if Alabama doesn't, you can bet yer sweet bottom that Louisiana will....  Big grin
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
cytz_pilot
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RE: Americans In Favor Of Torture

Fri Mar 12, 2004 3:32 am

Woah did I walk into the wrong topic!! Too many people foaming at the mouth here, wild with rage and revenge. I think some take the comments by 747 a little too far, I feel the gist of it was saying that, he's going to live his life in prison, long, long after America has calmed down and for the most case, forgotten it or pushed it to the backs of their minds in place of whatever else may be happening 20-30-40 years down the road.

I know when I was his age I had a penchance for shoplifting, and soon after, grew out of it. It's one of those things that I can't erase from my past, but I do regret doing it. It's not the same crime, but I'm glad that I was never judged a 'shoplifter for life' and thrown in jail as a result of it.

I personally agree with having him locked up, although it doesn't make me particularly happy to think of anyone having their lives permanantly destroyed for a demented teenage mistake. But on the bright side, he could share a room with Martha! (I'd actually prefer the firing squad)  Smile ha ha!
 
777236ER
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RE: Americans In Favor Of Torture

Fri Mar 12, 2004 3:44 am

While I have serious issues with the death penalty, the existance of it isn't really the question. The fact is that society and the law have a cut of age for adulthood. Anyone below that age, ie.a child shouldn't be put to death.

It's amusing (maybe the wrong word) to note that Jcs17 wouldn't want an 11 year old to vote, have sex, take out a loan, live on their own, live with gay parents, learn about sex, learn about contraception, watch late night tv, be exposed to swearwords, see a human breast, be exposed to the idea that two people of the same sex could love each other, fly on their own....but you'd gladly kill that 11 year old if they killed someone.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Americans In Favor Of Torture

Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:21 am

it isn't really the question. The fact is that society and the law have a cut of age for adulthood

But then it goes even beyond that...

If we're going to administer adulthood responsibilities in degrees, then I [rhetorically] ask why not applicable adulthood punishments as well?

In some areas here you must be:
  • 13 to decide with which of divorced parents you chose of live
  • 15, 16, or 17 to operate a car
  • 18 to smoke & vote
  • 21 to drink & gamble
  • 25 to own properties of certain value
  • 35+ to hold certain public offices
  • ....etc

    Wherewithin does complete and absolute accountability for your actions (particularly if said action violates the most sacred principle in western society) enter?

    Once that question can be finally and firmly addressed, so can the issue of "underaged" executions
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    777236ER
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    RE: Americans In Favor Of Torture

    Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:37 am

    Wherewithin does complete and absolute accountability for your actions (particularly if said action violates the most sacred principle in western society) enter?

    Once that question can be finally and firmly addressed, so can the issue of "underaged" executions


    It doesn't even come to that - to be tried in the US don't you need a jury of your peers? I don't see many 11 year old juries. At the very least, if under 18s are to be executed, shouldn't they have the vote too?
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    L.1011
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    RE: Americans In Favor Of Torture

    Fri Mar 12, 2004 5:04 am

    This man is not a child. People should not be tried as juviniles when they're old enough to realize something is wrong. This 17 year old is not stupid enough to think that murder is right. That means that he should absolutely pay the ultimate price for not saying "wait a minute, I shouldn't do this." I'm about 400 miles away from the area, but how would you feel if you were afraid to get gas, go to school, or get groceries? That is what people were doing when this moron shot 'em up. Life in prison is too light. The death penalty is ineffective but it isn't painful. Ooo no you get an injection and peacefully fall asleep, never to wake up. If we were gassing people, frying them, or using firing squads, etc, these types of crimes would go down very quickly. The punishment should fit the crime. Excecution by firing squad.
     
    lehpron
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    RE: Americans In Favor Of Torture

    Fri Mar 12, 2004 5:09 am

    "If you intentionally kill someone, without guilt or remorse, they should be executed. If you take a life, yours should also be taken"

    If someone rapes someone else, they need to be raped; if someone steals their car, they need to have their car stolen; if someone shows off their boobs on national TV, national TV should show off their boobs to them -- as opposed to censorship.

    Time should match the crime, eh? So terrorists should be blown up to teach them a lesson, even though their dead. How would that stop future terrorists who don't mind blowing themselves up? It's a freakin loose-loose situation.
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    N766UA
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    RE: Americans In Favor Of Torture

    Fri Mar 12, 2004 5:17 am

    To anyone saying the death penalty is not a deterrant: I will never kill a person for any reason simply because of that penalty. If I knew I could murder someone and get off with watching cable and pumping iron all day, I might do it for the right reason. Everyone has a limit, personally the death penalty keeps me from getting near it.

    That having been said, I'm very much against murder as I'm (according to this site) a religious person. Never mind I only go to church about twice a year. Anyhow, I'd never consider killing someone unless it was under yet to be experianced circumstances. But it is imaginable that I could one day face those circumstances, yes? Thus, the death penalty would keep me from going too crazy.

    I say fry Malvo. If he doesn't deserve it, nobody does.
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    777236ER
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    RE: Americans In Favor Of Torture

    Fri Mar 12, 2004 5:18 am

    This man is not a child. People should not be tried as juviniles when they're old enough to realize something is wrong

    This "man" is too young to vote. That makes him a child.
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    N766UA
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    RE: Americans In Favor Of Torture

    Fri Mar 12, 2004 5:24 am

    He's old enough to serve in the military at 17, but yet he's still a child?
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    777236ER
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    RE: Americans In Favor Of Torture

    Fri Mar 12, 2004 5:27 am

    If the State is allowed to take a significant portion of its citizens freedom or kill them, surely those who it affects should have the right to vote in politicans with different judicial ideas? It is a democracy afterall.
    Your bone's got a little machine
     
    N766UA
    Posts: 7843
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    RE: Americans In Favor Of Torture

    Fri Mar 12, 2004 5:30 am

    They do have the right to vote in politicans against the death penalty. They also have the choice of not killing anyone.
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    FDXmech
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    RE: Americans In Favor Of Torture

    Fri Mar 12, 2004 5:59 am

    I say we release all these reformed victims of society and let them reside next to you and your loved ones. And should one of these people do harm again, you bear the punishment.
    You're only as good as your last departure.

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