haveric
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7 Israelis Blown To Bits In Ashdod

Mon Mar 15, 2004 1:42 am

2 simultaneous suicide bombs at the start of the work week kill 7 (plus 2 homicide bombers) in the bustling port of Ashdod, south of Tel Aviv.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/14/international/14WIRE-MIDE.html?hp

Both Hamas and al aqsa "martyrs" brigade claimed responsibility for killing these seven people, and injuring 20 others.

[Edited 2004-03-14 17:44:15]
 
haveric
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RE: 7 Israelis Blown To Bits In Ashdod

Mon Mar 15, 2004 1:48 am

Ironically, this came on the day that talks were scheduled between Israeli and Palestinian leaders. I guess some people don't want to try to work towards peace. Regardless of what you think about Bush's "roadmap," bombings on the eve of peace talks won't ever resolve the situation.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: 7 Israelis Blown To Bits In Ashdod

Mon Mar 15, 2004 1:53 am

Ironic? Not in the least? Planned to coincide? Bet your bottom dollar.
 
fspilot747
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RE: 7 Israelis Blown To Bits In Ashdod

Mon Mar 15, 2004 1:59 am

What's new? This isn't going to stop...ever.


FSP
 
QIguy24
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RE: 7 Israelis Blown To Bits In Ashdod

Mon Mar 15, 2004 2:07 am

This is terrible. I feel for their relatives and families. These people were also innocent like the 200 spaniards the other day.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: 7 Israelis Blown To Bits In Ashdod

Mon Mar 15, 2004 2:10 am

But we shouldn't rush to blame the Arab terrorists on this one, right Russophile?  Smile

(sarcasm intended)
 
galaxy5
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RE: 7 Israelis Blown To Bits In Ashdod

Mon Mar 15, 2004 2:44 am

Im not sure if it was islamic terrorists, it could have been CIA operatives, or maybe swedish suicide groups, possibly British SAS, or maybe even cub scouts from Cleveland. But we shouldn't jump to conclusions.
"damn, I didnt know prince could Ball like that" - Charlie Murphy
 
haveric
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RE: 7 Israelis Blown To Bits In Ashdod

Mon Mar 15, 2004 2:45 am

Galaxy5 -- two groups -- Hamas and al aqsa "martyrs" brigade, have claimed responsibility...
 
cptkrell
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RE: 7 Israelis Blown To Bits In Ashdod

Mon Mar 15, 2004 3:02 am

Shows you the decency and sincerety of some people(?) when two groups clamor for the responsibility, huh. Regards...Jack
all best; jack
 
go canada!
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RE: 7 Israelis Blown To Bits In Ashdod

Mon Mar 15, 2004 3:39 am

The problem is that terrorists dont want the peace process and hamas and others have succeed because from peace ful talks we now have both sides living in fear of each other because hamas wrecked the peace process though its campaign, to hamas it cant make peace with the jews. Arafat now is irrelvant meaning that hamas is growing in power, it funds schools, it funds hospitals and it is brainwashing a whole generation. This means israel reacts which causes more violence. the only wqy for peace is for both moderate sides to come forward.We have seen moderates like barak offer statehood, compensation etc but the moderates in palestine are too weak and need building up.
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
vafi88
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RE: 7 Israelis Blown To Bits In Ashdod

Mon Mar 15, 2004 5:01 am

Haveric - Galaxy5 doesn't know how to read.

Just to give you a heads up.
I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
 
Marco
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RE: 7 Israelis Blown To Bits In Ashdod

Mon Mar 15, 2004 5:05 am

What I want to see is demonstrations and marches in the Arab world condemning these attacks of terrorism. Silence is complacency.

And no I'm not putting the blame solely on the Arabs but killing civilians like this is LOW.
Proud to be an Assyrian!
 
jutes85
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RE: 7 Israelis Blown To Bits In Ashdod

Mon Mar 15, 2004 5:12 am

Yeah, and when the Israeli's retaliate, they accidentally end-up killing a child, and they are the ones who look like the terrorists. Why doesn't Israel just take control of Palistine and the Gaza Strip and end this.
nothing
 
vafi88
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RE: 7 Israelis Blown To Bits In Ashdod

Mon Mar 15, 2004 5:25 am

Jutes - you're thinking like an American. They would come under fire from every other nation for trying to impose peace through war. (hint hint: Iraq War)
I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
 
LY744
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RE: 7 Israelis Blown To Bits In Ashdod

Mon Mar 15, 2004 6:16 am

Agree with all said so far in this thread, but I just wanted to comment on the cancelled peace talks today. It really looks like Sharon is looking for an excuse to back out. The whole point of peace talks is to prevent stuff like this from happening (well, ultimately).

"Why doesn't Israel just take control of Palistine and the Gaza Strip and end this."

Like the past 4 years haven't been enough of a god damn PR disaster?


LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
galaxy5
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RE: 7 Israelis Blown To Bits In Ashdod

Mon Mar 15, 2004 7:00 am

Vafi88
From United States, joined Apr 2001, 2111 posts, RR: 43
Reply: 10
Posted Sun Mar 14 2004 21:01:31 UTC+1 and read 64 times:
Haveric - Galaxy5 doesn't know how to read.

Just to give you a heads up.


No, just making a point about not jumping to conclusions so quickly, it has been making the Arab press mad that we always jump to the conclusion that the terrorists are islamic. and Russophile gets upset about it also.




"damn, I didnt know prince could Ball like that" - Charlie Murphy
 
vafi88
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RE: 7 Israelis Blown To Bits In Ashdod

Mon Mar 15, 2004 7:39 am

Umm, Galaxy. The thing we're arguing about is that it's MOST LIKELY arab muslim extremists through the acts they've already commited. It's not very likely that a Canadian (for example) would go do such a thing.

Oh, and I don't care what Russophile gets upset about.
I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
 
tbar220
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RE: 7 Israelis Blown To Bits In Ashdod

Mon Mar 15, 2004 9:19 am

This really, really sucks. All my family and my best friend lives in Israel, so I definitely do not enjoy hearing that this happens over there. They're all ok as far as I can tell, but the death toll is now up to ten.
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todaReisinger
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RE: 7 Israelis Blown To Bits In Ashdod

Tue Mar 16, 2004 8:21 am

These people were also innocent like the 200 spaniards the other day.





Yes, they were innocent civilians, victims of evil terrorists.

http://news.haaretz.co.il/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=404875&contrassID=1&subContrassID=5&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y

Like the 200 people killed in Madrid.

Like the 1000 others killed in Israel over the past 3 years.


But there is something quite weird in today's Europe: as long as the victims of terror are Israelis or Jews, no one cares about it.....

Now there are a lot of ceremonies and shows of deep sorrow all over Europe; people are shocked and they keep repeating "nothing can justify such an evil act". But there are no ceremonies and no sorrow here when dozens of young persons are blown to pieces in front of a disco, or when entire families are wiped out in pizzerias and restaurants, or when musicians are killed while performing in a bar, or when babies and grandmothers are assassinated in front of their synagogue or in a shopping mall. And the same was valid when 100 persons were killed in the attack against the Jewish communities of Buenos Aires; who does even remember this attack...?

It is not because the Europeans are not capable of feeling or showing emotions (as can be witnessed these days); it is simply because they don't have any emotion in front of a particular category of terror victims.







I bitterly miss the livery that should never have been changed (repetition...)
 
QIguy24
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RE: 7 Israelis Blown To Bits In Ashdod

Tue Mar 16, 2004 1:31 pm

TodaReisinger,

I agree with you. Like I wrote in my earlier post....
But what about all those innocent civilian palestinans who get killed by the israeli soldiers every day. And thats both babies and children. Are they worth anything to you? Or is it only the Jews we should feel sorry for?
I feel sorry for all the innocents who gets killed in this stupid war...
 
tbar220
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RE: 7 Israelis Blown To Bits In Ashdod

Tue Mar 16, 2004 2:12 pm

Qlguy24,

I think the double standard in Europe is that when Palestinian civilians get killed, there is outrage and lots of voices showing discontent, yet when Israeli civilians are killed there is little to none.

Now I don't live in Europe, so can you tell me how much discontent and reaction there was to the suicide bombing that killed Israeli civilians in Ahsdod?
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QIguy24
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RE: 7 Israelis Blown To Bits In Ashdod

Tue Mar 16, 2004 2:30 pm

Tbar220

It is obvious to see that you dont live in Europe. And If you read my earlier thread I was the first to concolence!!!!!

And it was on every newschannel in Denmark and the rest of europe. Like all of the other terrorist attacks around the world. You even see more of that then Israeli attacks on Palestine.

And if there are a suicide bomb in Israel that kills innocent israelis, many people get furious. And I am one of them. I think its stupid that there are some people who just dont want peace. And its not only the palestinians. Im sure the Israelis aren't so innocent all the time. Can you tell me who shot Mr Rabin the former PM of Israel´? It was an extreme israeli jew that didn't want peace. So in my view its not only the palestinians fault.
 
tbar220
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RE: 7 Israelis Blown To Bits In Ashdod

Tue Mar 16, 2004 2:39 pm

Alright, its too bad there's no tone of voice online. I wasn't implying anything with my question, I just wanted to know honestly how the European media, like the media you see in Denmark, responded to the recent bombing.

Personally, I feel and get the impression that there is too much blame placed square on Israel for what is happening. I don't think one side is solely to blame, it is too complicated an issue with many layers to say its only one sides fault. Too many people, and even media organizations go to that conclusion.

The scary thing about this attack, was the Hamas confrimed that they were trying for a "mega-attack", trying to explode chemical tanks in the port full of Bromide gas and other toxic chemicals. This isn't the first time this has happened, they attempted to destroy a fuel depot in Tel Aviv, but failed to ignite a conflagration, and they also tried to bring down a tower in Tel Aviv (I fail to remember what its called) but failed. Its these kinds of attacks that are very dangerous in their potential for massive destruction rivaled with what we saw in Madrid.
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QIguy24
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RE: 7 Israelis Blown To Bits In Ashdod

Tue Mar 16, 2004 2:48 pm

Tbar220

I totally agree with you about blaming both sides.
But I don't want to sound disrespectful, the only way the palestinians can do any damage to Israel is by blow them selves and civilians up unfortunatly.  Sad
They don't have the same military equipment like the israelis. The palestinans have their small pieces of rock they throw at israeli soldiers to defend their land, and then the soldiers responds by shooting them.
So they can only see one solution. And that is to blow innocent people up which is really terrible. They dont have the chance to take a chopper and fly up to Mr.Sharons home and fire som missils into it like the Israelis does to Mr. Arafat.
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: 7 Israelis Blown To Bits In Ashdod

Tue Mar 16, 2004 2:58 pm

An eye for an eye. My God, they've blinded themselves hundreds and hundreds of times. It's so disheartening to me.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
tbar220
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RE: 7 Israelis Blown To Bits In Ashdod

Tue Mar 16, 2004 3:16 pm

Qlguy4,

If they are going to do an uprising, well, why attack innocent civilians? For one, its against the Geneva convention, and its completely immoral. The stark difference is that in this war, Palesitnian civilians die as a result of Israeli strikes to break up the terrorist infrastructure, while Israeli civilians die as a result of a deliberate attempt to murder them.

And also, I don't think it should be a matter of the Palestinians wanting to do damage to Israel. They would be far more successful through non-violent opposition (i.e. MLK Jr. and Ghandhi). But now, I think its far too late to go that way because there is no trust anymore.

Sadly, the Palestinians chose the path of violence three years ago with the beginning of the uprising, and it has gotten them absolutely nothing. If they had the foresight, they wouldn't have stepped down this road, which I fear has no end.
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QIguy24
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RE: 7 Israelis Blown To Bits In Ashdod

Tue Mar 16, 2004 3:27 pm

Like I said: It is terrible to see when "palestinians" are doing suicide attempts. The real palestinians really want peace. But there are some who are being brainedwashed by some "genius" top people inside Al Aqsa brigades who don't want peace. And they dont have the guts to blow them self up. So they will find any poor palestinian and brainwash them.
And unfortunatly they succeed. And It makes me angry that people talk like every palestinian is a terrorist. But Im sure that the 99% of palestinians want peace.
Only a** holes are interested in war. And by that I mean Al Aqsa and Al Qaeda.
 
tbar220
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RE: 7 Israelis Blown To Bits In Ashdod

Tue Mar 16, 2004 3:37 pm

What do you think ordinary Palestinians can do to get out of this culture of violence that surrounds them? They have poor leadership (Arafat), strong influence from terrorist groups (Hamas), and a poor economy. The terrorist attacks just bring retribution from the Israeli army, and in the past dissenters have been executed by the extremists in the streets of the West Bank and Gaza. The question even can be, can the ordinary Palestinians, the moderate voice, do anything to start the end of this violence around them?

Another question, is there something the Western world should actively do achieve the same goal? I feel there needs to be a more active role taken to achieve peace, for example, how we saw Clinton actively trying to achieve peace in the region. I feel there is a complete lack of this attempt by the rest of the world, instead antagonizing one side or the other in an attempt to feel morally "right".

What are your thoughts?
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QIguy24
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RE: 7 Israelis Blown To Bits In Ashdod

Tue Mar 16, 2004 3:46 pm

No they cant.... That's what I have been trying to point out for you. They can't do shit as long there is no one there to help them.
And you are right, they have bad leadership. But some of the Israeli leaders aren't to clever either.
Mr Sharon has provocated the palestinians alot of times. And I will not forget when he disrespected holy palestinian land.
And Im sure you agree with me on that one. Or else you must be blind or dont follow the news.. *no offence* Just a way of expression.  Big grin
 
tbar220
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RE: 7 Israelis Blown To Bits In Ashdod

Tue Mar 16, 2004 4:05 pm

Sharon's visit to the temple mount was stupid, but it was not the cause of the uprising. Arafat had already been planning to start the uprising while he was in Camp David with Barak and Clinton, so ultimately he had no intention for peace. He knows only violence, sadly.

Now Sharon and the Israeli govt. is part responsible for what is happening in the middle east, but they should not be responsible for the Palestinians actions. I firmly believe that the Palestinians should be responsible for their actions or even lack of actions, and should be the sole group who brings about the most drastic change in the territories. The rest of the world has to act as a catalyst, but the Palestinians need to bring about a change. I have more faith that the Israeli government will change because it is a democratic system with democratically elected officials. You and me both see little hope in Palestinian change because it is stifled so strongly. Sad really.

As for my view on Sharon, I don't approve of his constant military strikes, but I do approve of his recent statements of unilateral moves. For example, removing settlers from Gaza and just letting the Palestinians there deal with themselves. I approve of the wall, not so much the path, but Israel has dealt with the Palestinians long enough. I only wish Sharon would agree to remove settlers from the West Bank as well, and they were even making moves to do so before the building of the wall, if you recall during the three month "truce" in the summer. That ended abruptly with double suicide bombings and probably will not resume any time soon.

I think the Israeli's need new leadership, but Sharon is better than Netanyahu, but still not as good as I would like. Barak was the best leadership the Israelis and Palestinians both had (ironically), and Arafat spat in his face.
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QIguy24
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RE: 7 Israelis Blown To Bits In Ashdod

Tue Mar 16, 2004 4:13 pm

I totally agree with you Tbar.
And I have always wondered how the situation in the Israel/Palestine would be like if Sharon and Arafat was removed from power. I really miss Yitzak Rabin today. I think the situation would have looked totally different if he hadn't been shot.
I really would have enjoyed to have this discussion with you over a beer. Because you sound like a very descent man.
 
tbar220
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RE: 7 Israelis Blown To Bits In Ashdod

Tue Mar 16, 2004 4:24 pm

Yitzhak Rabin was a great man with a great vision. He was so succesful for one reason. Israeli's were tired of fighting, tired of war, tired of terrorism, and have wanted peace for so long. He was controversial, but he was able to achieve piece and because of that millions of Israeli's in a country with six million supported him and rallied to his cause. And as we've seen time and time again, extremism won the upper hand (sometimes makes me want to cry out in anger).

Polls show that Israeli's are getting fed up and tired of Sharon, with just abot 30% supporting his policies. Sharon is barely surviving in the Knesset, passing a vote of no confidence by one vote I believe. Israelis are torn on how to react to terrorism, because the end result that they all want is peace and the feeling of security. Hopefully, a different prime minister will arrive with a more "peaceful" approach to dealing with the problem of Palestinian terrorism. And hopefully, Arafat will pass on and somebody with much more reason will take his place.

Thanks for the compliment, its too bad we're half a world apart. I'm glad this has been a civil discussion, all to rare to see it on this topic nowadays.
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QIguy24
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RE: 7 Israelis Blown To Bits In Ashdod

Tue Mar 16, 2004 4:40 pm

Do you know what other possibilities there are instead of Sharon and Arafat? I have beein trying to do som research a while ago, but couldn't really see who would be a great PM's for both countries. I have done a little research in possible palestine leaders. And I think Abbas Abbas or Erakat wold be some good possiblities. But please correct me if I'm wrong. I only get infos from the media and internet.
And the latest Israel election was last year wasn't it? I guess we will have to wait for 3 more years to see some new leaders in these countrys.
 
todaReisinger
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RE: 7 Israelis Blown To Bits In Ashdod

Tue Mar 16, 2004 4:52 pm

The palestinans have their small pieces of rock they throw at israeli soldiers to defend their land, and then the soldiers responds by shooting them.


That's exactly the deformed way most Europeans are looking at the situation; "small pieces of rocks"...which are exploding killing dozens of innocent civilians in Israel.

"small pieces of rocks" have also killed dozens in Madrid very recently...



* * * *


And concerning PM Sharon, there is just one point which shouldn't be forgotten:

Without the terrible waves of terror bombings which took place in Israel after the great decisions of the Rabin/Peres governments and claimed hundreds of lives...Ariel Sharon would NEVER have become the PM of Israel. He was really the very last on the candidates' list throughout the 1980s and most of the 1990s.
Whoever has the slightest knowledge of the situation in the ME and in Israeli politics knows this...


I bitterly miss the livery that should never have been changed (repetition...)
 
QIguy24
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RE: 7 Israelis Blown To Bits In Ashdod

Tue Mar 16, 2004 5:01 pm

Are you blind??????? If it is not rocks they are throwing. what is it then??
Have you watched new on the television??

There wasn't any peaces of rocks that killed the spaniards... Thats the dumbest thing I have ever heard! That was bombs.
And If you read the thread all the way you should read what I have been writing..  Yeah sure
 
tbar220
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RE: 7 Israelis Blown To Bits In Ashdod

Tue Mar 16, 2004 5:02 pm

In the Israeli government, the Prime Minister can be voted out of office through a vote of no confidence, which results in the calling of new elections. So there is hope that Sharon can get voted out of office. If you recall, the mayor of Haifa, Avram Mitzna, was running for the Labor party in Israel (the name escapes me now surprisingly) and had good ideas IMO.

I wish to continue this conversation, but I've been studying for my Satellite and Remote Sensing exam all night, and I'm fried. I need to get some sleep before my exam tomorrow, and I still need to study before the exam tomorrow night. Wish me luck! Its a devil of a class
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QIguy24
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RE: 7 Israelis Blown To Bits In Ashdod

Tue Mar 16, 2004 5:07 pm

Hey Tbar220

The best of luck from here  Big thumbs up
And once again, thank you for a descent debate..
 
fritzi
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RE: 7 Israelis Blown To Bits In Ashdod

Tue Mar 16, 2004 5:10 pm

That's exactly the deformed way most Europeans are looking at the situation; "small pieces of rocks"...which are exploding killing dozens of innocent civilians in Israel.

"small pieces of rocks" have also killed dozens in Madrid very recently...


Israelis have: Apache Helicopters, F-16, M16, Blackhawks, Sidewinders....

Palestinians have: A few AK47, Rocks, Homemade Bombs...

Does this look like a fair fight to you?

which are exploding killing dozens of innocent civilians in Israel

And Israelis are only killing Palestinian terrorists?  Yeah sure
Or do you consider all Palestinians terrorists???...


PS: Tbar220, good luck with your exam!

[Edited 2004-03-16 09:12:02]
 
QIguy24
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RE: 7 Israelis Blown To Bits In Ashdod

Tue Mar 16, 2004 5:15 pm

Fritzi

I agree with you. Thats also what I have been trying to point out several times in this diskussion. But some people they just dont read the things they want to read.
 
jcs17
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RE: 7 Israelis Blown To Bits In Ashdod

Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:03 am

Israel could give the Palestinians everything they wanted and you want to know what would happen? More suicide bombings. Why, your simple mind might ask? Well, the terrorists (and a good amount of Palestinian people) would like to see Israel pushed into the sea, to have it cease to exist. They don't want to see any Jews in the region, period. There will never be any peace in that region of the world unless Israel dissapears from the map. It doesn't matter that Israel hands over parts of the West Bank and Gaza, thats not the terrorists goal and its not the want of the majority of the Palestinian people.

The Palestinians must be dealt with and dealt with harshly for each suicide bombing they carry out. Whether that means retaking villages for each bombing that occurs, killing Arafat, or even pushing the Palestinians out of Israel altogether. As long as the Sharon government is in power and they keep their weak-kneed approach to terror, this will never end. The Palestinians need to know that for each bombing there will be severe consequences and that if the bombings continue there will never be a "Palestine." Benjamin Netanyahu had this tough approach to the Palestinian conflict and remember what happened? The suicide bombings went down drastically because they knew that for each bombing they carried out there would be a stern response from the Israeli government--and not a couple patty-cake missle attacks on a house or two.

For Israel to continue to exist, they must respond with real force everytime a bombing occurs.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
fritzi
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RE: 7 Israelis Blown To Bits In Ashdod

Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:25 am

For Israel to continue to exist, they must respond with real force everytime a bombing occurs.

So what do you want, should they respond with "real force" until all palestinians are killed so that Israel can take over Palestine as well?
 
avi
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RE: 7 Israelis Blown To Bits In Ashdod

Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:28 am

Tbar220: The scary thing about this attack, was the Hamas confrimed that they were trying for a "mega-attack", trying to explode chemical tanks in the port full of Bromide gas and other toxic chemicals.

Relax, they didn’t. It is a fact that the suicide bomber entered the first warehouse he saw after he crossed the port fence and blew up himself. He didn’t try to get to the chemical tanks or anywhere else. Only after endless words by Israeli reporters, politicians and others, Hamas said what they did but I don’t buy it. It was a "conventional" terror attack.

Qlguy24: I really miss Yitzak Rabin today. I think the situation would have looked totally different if he hadn't been shot.

When Rabin was the PM, Israel withdrew from the Gaza Strip and West Bank, and Palestinians blew up themselves in Israel, murdering hundreds of Israelis without any Israeli response. Is that what you are missing? (I don’t really think so, but that was the Israeli reality back then.)

About the elections. The next Israeli election is planed to Nov 07 but definitely it will happen sooner. Today, thanks to the Palestinians, there is no left in Israel. When Sharon will leave politics, Netanyaho has the best chances to be the PM again.

Are you blind??????? If it is not rocks they are throwing. what is it then??
Have you watched new on the television??


So I understand that this is all you see. You don’t see (because no one shows it to you) all the heavy stuff they use. The Anti tank missiles for example etc (they have much more than rocks).

Fritzi, if Israel had used everything it has with all force ahead, this Intifada was over after few hours (but we simply let things go from worse to worsen slowly and yesterday he had to deal with a 10 years old boy who tried to smuggle a big bomb into Israel).

Long live the B747
 
todaReisinger
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RE: 7 Israelis Blown To Bits In Ashdod

Wed Mar 17, 2004 7:41 am

Are you blind??????? If it is not rocks they are throwing. what is it then??
Have you watched new on the television??

There wasn't any peaces of rocks that killed the spaniards... Thats the dumbest thing I have ever heard! That was bombs.



And the 1000 Israelis who were murdered in dozens of public busses all around the country, in restaurants, in shopping malls, in bars and coffee shops, they were all killed with "peaces" of rocks?
They have been killed by powerful bombs, most often carried by suicide bombers.

Have you EVER seen one photograph of an Israeli bus after a suicide attack? Have you ever cared to see a devastated restaurant after a suicide attack? You have surely seen the terrible photographs from Madrid, showing dead bodies in trains and on the tracks; in Israel, these horrific scenes have been sadly seen dozens of times, most recently on Monday morning.


So stop portraying the situation in your bad faithed "rocks against tanks" version.




* * * * *




I really miss Yitzak Rabin today. I think the situation would have looked totally different if he hadn't been shot.



For your information, the great "visions" Rabin had were actually Peres' "visions" of what the latter calls a "New Middle East".......and based on these visions, their government created the worst situation in Israel's history. The first suicide bombings began in 1994, the very same year Arafat came to Gaza...
And had he not been assassinated, he would have lost the next elections; his government was, in October 1995, the most unpopular government in Israel's history. He wouldn't have remained in office after the 1996 elections; his assassination almost allowed Shimon Peres to win thoses elections, because the Israeli public was very shocked after the assassination. Finally Peres lost, and B. Netanyahu got elected after yet another campaign of suicide bombings.

But since you remain unimpressed by terror attacks taking place in Israel these days...you have for sure forgotten the terrible attacks which took place in Israel in the mid 1990s, thus allowing you to "miss" a catastrophical situation.









* * * * *







Israelis have: Apache Helicopters, F-16, M16, Blackhawks, Sidewinders....

Palestinians have: A few AK47, Rocks, Homemade Bombs...

Does this look like a fair fight to you?



...then it is natural to blow up hundreds of innocent persons with "homemade bombs"...

It's great, in only one thread we can already read twice the European obsessive desire to describe the conflict as a "poor boys with rocks against a powerful army"...thus keeping a totally blind eye on the unending terror attacks.
Who are the passengers riding busses in your eyes? Apaches helicopters?



And you know...the terrorists who committed the Madrid bombings don't have Apaches, F-16s and so on neither...all they have are "homemade bombs"...



I bitterly miss the livery that should never have been changed (repetition...)
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: 7 Israelis Blown To Bits In Ashdod

Wed Mar 17, 2004 8:04 am

One thing I learned about militant / terrorist groups when I was living in Ireland (at the time of the Omagh bombing) and watched the whole Northern Ireland peace process closely:
Those extremist militants (in the Irish example both the PIRA as well as the different loyalist groups) both are powerfull as long as there is a war gioing on. Once the war is over they are just uneducated unemployed with no prospects. In Northern Ireland a member of a radical group of his respective community could enter a pub and get treated out. They just NEED to keep the war going on because else they would loose their importance.
If you don´t agree with their maximum demands (in Ireland total withdrawal of the British from Northern Ireland, respectively removal of Catholics from the North) they either tell you that they can´t back up because so many of them died and a compromise would mean that all those would have died in vain, or they bluntly tell you that as long as you don´t join their fight, you´re a coward and have no right to critise them.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
tbar220
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RE: 7 Israelis Blown To Bits In Ashdod

Wed Mar 17, 2004 9:18 am

Perhaps that's another reason, MD, I like your analysis. Maybe terrorism will never stop in Israel because those carrying out the attacks know of nothing else which they feel is productive.
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QIguy24
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RE: 7 Israelis Blown To Bits In Ashdod

Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:36 pm

Toda Reisinger:
Yes I have seen a picture of a blown up bus. I do watch the news. Have you ever seen a palestinians home after an israeli apache and bulldozer attack?

So stop portraying the situation in your bad faithed "rocks against tanks" version

Whu should I? Thats is the truth! And if you read the earlier posts that I wrote that I do know that the only posibility they can do any damage to Israel is blow them self up with suicide bombs. Because the rocks don't help.

But since you remain unimpressed by terror attacks taking place in Israel these days

Thats a load of crap! I am not unimpressed by the terror attacs! You should really read this topic from the beginning. I was the first one to condolence because I think it's terrible every time they blow up Israelis..


And by the way..... Does It look like to you that election of Sharon has helped stopping the Suicide bombings??
 
QIguy24
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RE: 7 Israelis Blown To Bits In Ashdod

Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:38 pm

ooohhh Toda Reisinger I forgot to mention this one... How many Israelis has been killed by palestinian terrorist compared tp palestinians being killed by israelis??
 
phxairfan
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RE: 7 Israelis Blown To Bits In Ashdod

Wed Mar 17, 2004 4:03 pm

A lot of people have good points in this thread, and I'll try to share my views on them. I first would like to start by posing a question. If the Palestinians never had committed a homicide attack, would the Israeli army ever roll their tanks into the West Bank/Gaza strip? I don't think they would but I'm sure someone can find some reason to tell me that I'm wrong. Secondly you have to understand that when Israel has an operation in the territories, and the Hamas and Al Asqa gunmen come to fight the Israelis. They hide amongst their own people and use them as human shields. Another part of this, is when you hear about Israelis firing back at kids that are throwing rocks at them, what person in there right mind throws a rock at someone with a big gun? Hell living in Arizona I'm afraid to honk at someone because they might have a gun in their car and go road rage on me. It all starts when the kids are brainwashed to hate. I don't know any other group of people that teach their children to hate another culture besides Palestinians and several other Arab countries. Now this isn't ALL Palestinians nor ALL Arabs mind you. There are good Palestinians and Arabs that want peace. I believe that the current Palestinian prime minister would like to see peace. Unfortunately he has no power to curb the terrorists groups because Arafat will not let him have it. I liken Arafat to Castro in Cuba in that there will be no changes until they pass on, because until then they will never relinquish power. But anyways back to the point. Israel does not send troops into Palestine to kill civilians, then send them there to track down terrorist so that they can be brought to justice. When is the last time that Hamas or Islamic Jihad took an Israeli into custody to try them for crimes? Never they kill any one they can get their hands on. To portray the conflict as "rocks against tanks" is completely unfair. The whole reason the tanks are there, is because a homicide bomber blew up and killed INNOCENT people.
I think that the Palestinians and their culture deserve a lot of the blame for the current situation. However I do not think they deserve all of it. I think that Israel should remove all settlements that are on Palestinian land, and adhere to the green line established in 1967. I also think that the Palestinians should arrest the terrorists and throw them in jail to rot for the rest of their lives. But I don't get what I want, and neither will the Palestinians as long as they use terror and murder to achieve their goals.

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