mrwayne
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England Beat West Indies!

Mon Mar 15, 2004 2:13 am

England have finally beat the West Indies, in the West Indies!

Fantastic!!
 
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scbriml
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RE: England Beat West Indies!

Mon Mar 15, 2004 2:37 am

Holy shit - we bowled them out for 47!  Nuts

47  Big grin

That's payback for some serious drubbings that have been inflicted on us out there!  Laugh out loud
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TSV
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RE: England Beat West Indies!

Tue Mar 16, 2004 6:47 am

"That's payback for some serious drubbings that have been inflicted on us out there!"

Not quite - maybe a downpayment as some of those "serious drubbings" there (not to mention at home as well) were pretty severe.

Nevertheless very well done especially Harmison figures.

Now where's Banco's comment? Almost as good as a World Cup win eh?
"I told you I was ill ..." Spike Milligan
 
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RE: England Beat West Indies!

Tue Mar 16, 2004 7:02 am

I couldn't believe the amount of smegging slips they were using. Surely they must have left huge areas of the field exposed.

a good win
 
pacificjourney
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RE: England Beat West Indies!

Tue Mar 16, 2004 11:44 am

Next thing you know England might draw a series with Bangladesh ???
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IndianFlyboy
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RE: England Beat West Indies!

Tue Mar 16, 2004 2:31 pm

Mrwayne , you got that all wrong , beating is the wrong word it should be more like England thrashed/demolished/screwed the west indies. Man was that match worth watching , one session , an entire team bowled out and before you know it the other team won as well. Excellent piece of work specially after that rough patch England has been thru for the last couple of years.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Regards
 
Banco
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RE: England Beat West Indies!

Tue Mar 16, 2004 6:25 pm

A bit of a silly comment, Pacificjourney, considering England beat Bangladesh 2-0 only six months ago.  Big grin

At one stage England had 7 slips and 2 gullies.  Wow!

Funny game really. After the first innings it looked so finely balanced, and then it was all over. Harmison looked lethal, pace and steepling bounce, but in truth the West Indies batsmen should be taken out and shot for that display.

One other thing, England haven't exactly been on the receiving end against the West Indies that much in recent years. In the last series in England, the Windies were shot out for 54 and 61, so it's hardly unprecedented.

This one was the West Indies lowest score in their history however.
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pacificjourney
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RE: England Beat West Indies!

Tue Mar 16, 2004 7:37 pm

I was simply making ligtht of Englands abilities Banco in that beating Bang. would be seen as an accomplishment rather than the bare minimum. Much like beating WI these days.
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Banco
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RE: England Beat West Indies!

Tue Mar 16, 2004 7:55 pm

Oh, I know you were. Just teasing. I doubt the Windies have sunk quite that far yet.  Big grin

Maybe this will be the start of an England improvement. When you look at the side, there is plenty of talent. When was the last time England had two genuinely quick bowlers in Harmison and Jones?

The trouble is that Australia have been so far in front for so long. India seem to be challenging them now but apart from that everyone seems much of a muchness, capable of winning and losing to everyone (except Zimbabwe and Bangladesh).
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TSV
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RE: England Beat West Indies!

Tue Mar 16, 2004 11:25 pm

Low scores are infectious by the looks of it :

http://aus.cricinfo.com/db/NEW/LIVE/frames/AUS_SL_T2_16-20MAR2004.html



[Edited 2004-03-16 15:27:04]
"I told you I was ill ..." Spike Milligan
 
mrwayne
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RE: England Beat West Indies!

Wed Mar 17, 2004 12:44 am

we beat the Aussies in there own back yard now the Windies BRILLIANT!!!
 
Banco
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RE: England Beat West Indies!

Wed Mar 17, 2004 4:00 am

We did? When? 1987 wasn't it?

Oh, you mean the rugby.  Smile Now, thrilled as I was about that, I think we're on to a bit of a loser mentioning cricket to the Aussies right now.  Big grin
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scbriml
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RE: England Beat West Indies!

Wed Mar 17, 2004 4:23 am

To modify a famous sporting commentary:

"Malcolm Marshall, Joel Garner, Ian Bishop, Courtney Walsh, Curtly Ambrose, Michael Holding, Viv Richards, Gary Sobers, Gordon Greenidge, are you watching? Are you watching? Your boys took one hell of a beating!"

Lap it up while you can  Big thumbs up
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David_itl
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RE: England Beat West Indies!

Wed Mar 17, 2004 4:30 am


I'm a bit more frightened of what Lara did after the Australian's dismissed the WI for 51 - couple of 200s and a 100; I hope history doesn't repeat itself!

David
 
Banco
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RE: England Beat West Indies!

Wed Mar 17, 2004 4:34 am

I see no reason to be worried, David. After all, what has Lara ever done against England in the past...?  Big grin
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CPH-R
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RE: England Beat West Indies!

Wed Mar 17, 2004 4:41 am

Sounds like the Windies took one heck of a beating - being bowled out at 47 is baaaaad.
 
Banco
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RE: England Beat West Indies!

Wed Mar 17, 2004 4:48 am

I once played in a side that was bowled out for 14, you know. I was (insert smugness here) 7 not out, watching with mounting disbelief the carnage at the other end.
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CPH-R
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RE: England Beat West Indies!

Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:44 am

Ouch, ouch & double-ouch!

How the heck can you get bowled out for 14! The bowler must have hit the peak that day.
 
BarfBag
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RE: England Beat West Indies!

Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:21 pm

I once played in a side that was bowled out for 14, you know. I was (insert smugness here) 7 not out, watching with mounting disbelief the carnage at the other end.

Bah, that's nothing. I once ended up 5* in a team total of 7. It was a six-a-side game though. Quite a bit of strange stuff happening in the cricket world these days. Bangladesh actually won an ODI after five years and 80 matches. The Windies collapsed in such an abject manner in Kingston. The Aussies and Lankans have a Murali-Warne war going on. India and Pakistan have wracked up 300+ everytime they batted in the series so far... there's no game like cricket Big grin
 
IndianFlyboy
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RE: England Beat West Indies!

Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:50 pm

Barf the fun part is the other team actually chases the total and gets pretty close to it as well . Damn 300's used to be so rare a couple of years ago , and now every match , both innings the score is above 300 .

Regards
 
Banco
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RE: England Beat West Indies!

Wed Mar 17, 2004 6:01 pm

It's hardly surprising with those teams though. The batting line ups are fantastic, and the bowling line ups aren't - at least in terms of one day cricket - versus the batsmen. There's a bit of an imbalance. Shoaib and Sami might be seriously rapid, but they aren't that accurate. India's bowlers are all about swing and seam, both negated to some degree in the one day game by the fields necessary.

Now, Test matches, that's different, certainly India have shown they can mix it with the best, but since one day cricket is really all about the batting it really is fabulous to watch.

Oh, on low scoring games, I remember reading about a school game where one side was bowled out for 1 run. The schoolmaster apologised to his opposite number "I do assure you they can play better than that"; they did. They bowled out the opposition for 0! Big grin
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pacificjourney
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RE: England Beat West Indies!

Wed Mar 17, 2004 7:17 pm

Recent spate of 300 plus scores also the result of embarassing Extra's scores. India vs Pakistan for example 21 and 37 respectively !

Any one recall the heyday of One day cricket in the early - mid eighties ? 280 at least for defendable score, around 300 being 'normal'.
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Banco
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RE: England Beat West Indies!

Wed Mar 17, 2004 7:25 pm

A high number of extras seems to be more frequent generally though. The Windies sent down more than 50 in England's first innings in the Test match. Disgraceful really. Certainly, there appear to be many more wides in Tests than I seem to remember twenty years ago.

Interesting use of "heyday" there, PJ. I feel that one day cricket is rather boring these days (the last two Pakistan-India games have been exceptions), hence innovations like Twenty-twenty cricket. At the same time, Test matches have become progressively more exciting.
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BarfBag
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RE: England Beat West Indies!

Wed Mar 17, 2004 11:39 pm

So how long do you think it'll be before the 400 mark for an innings is breached in ODIs ? Or for that matter, 200 for individual scores ? I believe both are in mortal danger in the India-Pakistan series. All the latter feat needs is a protracted period of utter insanity from Sehwag, and the former can just as well be accomplished by Sachin and the rest joining the party, or with examples replaced by Afridi and Inzamam on the other side. Imagine what the opposition captain would be thinking walking back to the pavilion for the innings break with the first team's score reading '406/7 in 50 overs'. Scary.
 
Banco
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RE: England Beat West Indies!

Thu Mar 18, 2004 1:57 am

Oh, it'll happen alright. I think that Sachin has a highest score of about 186 anyway, doesn't he? Going back 20 years Viv Richards scored something similar against England (who else?) in a one day match, though that may have been over 55 or even 60 overs.

As for getting 400, well let me put it this way: In the 20/20 last year, teams managed over 200 fairly often. It isn't that much of a leap, is it?
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pacificjourney
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RE: England Beat West Indies!

Thu Mar 18, 2004 2:58 am

I don't think 400 will even be approached.

Yes there is a rash of high scorers at the moment but the bowling/feilding will pick up again and the scores will fall. Ditto the large number of extras recently. Things will tighten up all round IMHO.

Yes Banco now ODI's are rather dull now but I remember when I was at High school (1980-84) they were just great and the Windies wore pink !!!! That said I don't exactly get much selection to watch here so I take what ever I can get.
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Banco
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RE: England Beat West Indies!

Thu Mar 18, 2004 3:05 am

I don't know, trams are getting to 350 now, and if you look at the first ODI between India and Pakistan, there was a substnatial slowing down in the latter overs. I don't think it'll be beaten often, but I do think it'll be beaten.

By the way, if there's one thing to be said for Sky Digital, it is that we get excellent coverage of cricket. All series in England, Australia, West Indies and South Africa are covered, along with many in India and Pakistan.

Not bad at all, really. I suspect I watch India more than you do.  Big grin
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David_itl
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RE: England Beat West Indies!

Thu Mar 18, 2004 4:08 am


Saeed Anwar clubbed 194no in a game (forgotten who against ) and Viv Richards did his 189no in 55 overs.

Now if Pakistan were to bat 1st and actually give Abdul Razzaq a few more overs than 5 or 6 to do a cameo, then 400 is not out of the question (especially with Shahid Afridi opening up).

David
 
BarfBag
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RE: England Beat West Indies!

Thu Mar 18, 2004 12:32 pm

I don't think 400 will even be approached.

Sri Lanka came within 2 runs of it, albeit against Kenya. India too scored something like 380+ twice, against Sri Lanka and New Zealand. Besides records are meant to be broken. I'm rather surprised by the comment about "bowlers' and fielders' standards improving". What exactly is bad about them ? Its just that the dice is loaded against them. Excellent physical protection, field restrictions, bouncer laws, wide/no-ball laws, heavy bats, fast & short outfields, TV...

Face it, watching batsmen plunder the leather gets more ratings than a virtuoso bowling performance, which is harder to appreciate on TV - because you can't quite see how, say, Murali is utilizing his prodigious skills to bamboozle batsmen as much as you can see Sachin blast a ball to Mars. The former takes a certain degree of knowledge of what it takes to bowl a cricket ball; the latter can be appreciated by the layman. Sure, a fast bowler sending the wickets cartwheeling is exciting, but how often does that occur compared to boundaries ?
 
Banco
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RE: England Beat West Indies!

Thu Mar 18, 2004 6:02 pm

Agreed. Even with a fast bowler, watching on television doesn't give you the true impression of pace, you have to actually be there to realise how quick these guys are. I've faced many a fast-medium bowler in my career (say, someone with the pace of a Hoggard or Zaheer Khan) and you get used to the speed quite quickly. The thing with those guys is that they cheat by swinging and seaming the ball all over the place.  Big grin Impressive for a club player to watch, but hardly a ratings beater for TV. The truly quick guys, on the other hand, are in a different league. They'll be bowling only about 10mph quicker, but the difference is extraordinary, seriously rapid.

Mind you, I must admit, every time I watch say Sami or Shoaib I'm watching avidly to see how fast they go on the speed gun.  Smile
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TSV
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RE: England Beat West Indies!

Sat Mar 20, 2004 1:16 pm

Well this one is getting close

http://aus.cricinfo.com/db/NEW/LIVE/frames/AUS_SL_T2_16-20MAR2004.html


[Edited 2004-03-20 05:45:00]
"I told you I was ill ..." Spike Milligan
 
Banco
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RE: England Beat West Indies!

Sat Mar 20, 2004 8:57 pm

Australia won, as no doubt Tsv will remind us all.  Big grin

Back in the West Indies, England have got Lara and co on the rack again after the first day of the second test. The day was rain affected unfortunately, but after Lara won the toss and saw Gayle and Devon Smith race to 100 without loss fifteen minutes before lunch he must have thought the first test debacle hadn't affected them too badly.

Then Harmison switched ends.

Oh dear, from 100-0 to 110-3 in no time, and it got worse from there. By the close West Indies were 189-8 on a very good batting track. Harmison picked up another "Michelle" (Michelle Pfieffer = Five for, geddit?), bowling with pace and bounce. Add in a ridiculous run out and it was an all round disaster for the Windies.

Day two starts in a couple of hours.
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pacificjourney
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RE: England Beat West Indies!

Sat Mar 20, 2004 11:42 pm

Oh yeah great batting track Banco, England 8-2. It's like the battle of the spactics out there !

If you want a great game then check out NZ slapping around South Africa.
" Help, help ... I'm being oppressed ... "
 
TSV
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RE: England Beat West Indies!

Sun Mar 21, 2004 12:09 am

Yes looks like a real sedate strip :

"5.3 Best to Hussain, no run, wow! jags back something fierce - that was
at a width to cut, when it pitched, but came back in and went
almost over off stump"
"I told you I was ill ..." Spike Milligan
 
Banco
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RE: England Beat West Indies!

Sun Mar 21, 2004 8:46 pm

The track will certainly deteriorate, but the two England wickets were rank bad batting.

Anyway, it looks like this test might yet be ruined by rain. England finished 54-2 after day 2.
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TSV
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RE: England Beat West Indies!

Mon Mar 22, 2004 10:58 am

and Pacificjourney cracks open the bottle of bubbly as NZ defeat SA for the first time at home :

http://aus.cricinfo.com/db/NEW/LIVE/frames/RSA_NZ_T2_18-22MAR2004.html


[Edited 2004-03-22 02:59:51]
"I told you I was ill ..." Spike Milligan
 
pacificjourney
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RE: England Beat West Indies!

Mon Mar 22, 2004 12:43 pm

Is defeat the word ??? Arse-rape more like !

What the hell has happened to SA ?
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TSV
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RE: England Beat West Indies!

Mon Mar 22, 2004 11:15 pm

Didn't your blokes do the same to India when they toured NZ?
"I told you I was ill ..." Spike Milligan
 
pacificjourney
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RE: England Beat West Indies!

Tue Mar 23, 2004 12:17 am

They did indeed. It has been steady improvement for about 3 years now.
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BarfBag
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RE: England Beat West Indies!

Tue Mar 23, 2004 12:26 am

Didn't your blokes do the same to India when they toured NZ?

I take offense at that. Those damned Kiwis dug up their pitches and made us play on what was essentially strips of upturned mud.  Pissed Great to see them beat SA though. Never thought that would happen after day 1. I had completely tuned out of the NZ-SA match after reading SA do so well on the first day, and was quite taken aback to see the blurb in an Indian paper after the 4th day saying NZ was close to victory.
 
pacificjourney
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RE: England Beat West Indies!

Tue Mar 23, 2004 12:32 am

Dug up ? Try cyclone damage so it was shit for every one !

Imagine us touring in the monsoon ... and it's an outdoor sport so deal with it or take up table tennis.

Also destroyed Pakistan as well and Oz (at home) just before that so it's a trend indeed ...
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TSV
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RE: England Beat West Indies!

Tue Mar 23, 2004 3:00 am

"Also destroyed ... and Oz (at home) just before that so it's a trend indeed ..."

Huh? Your guys played very well but "destroyed"? I think you are getting a little carried away.

Or are you talking Rugby? Yes "destroyed" would be an appropriate adjective for that drubbing!


[Edited 2004-03-22 19:03:14]
"I told you I was ill ..." Spike Milligan
 
pacificjourney
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RE: England Beat West Indies!

Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:32 am

3 games in a row, alright not destroyed but close enough.
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Banco
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RE: England Beat West Indies!

Tue Mar 23, 2004 6:17 pm

Barfbag, beats me how you can complain about pitches in New Zealand when everyone has to put up with blatantly doctored strips in India. "Hmm, we're playing England, let's make it as slow as possible, then a raging turner after two and a half days". It's the same in every country (apart from it would seem England where the ECB are too dense to make sure England have the advantage  Insane ), you play to your strengths.

Good effort by New Zealand.

Oh, by the way, England are about to beat the Windies again. England reached 319 in reply to the West Indies 208.

The West Indies batted for the second time, and reached 160-4, a lead of about 50. The game was in the balance, with Ridley Jacobs, promoted up the order, smashing the ball around. Lara bizarrely dropped himself to number 6 "for tactical reasons". Anyway, they then collapsed again, and were all out fo 209, leaving England 99 to win. England had about an hour to bat, and were clearly intent on making sure they didn't come back for a fifth day. The pitch is keeping very low now, and poor Marcus Trescothick hit the first ball for four, saw the next go for four byes, and then was bowled by a ball pitched half way down that just rolled. Just what you need when you're out of form! Vaughan and Butcher then went berserk, smashing the bowling all over the place before Vaughan was lbw.

They didn't quite make it. Bad light closed in and England were 71-2 off about 9 overs. The further 28 needed should be a formality today, and England will be 2-0 up in the four match series.
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Wally236ER
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RE: England Beat West Indies!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 12:33 am

England beat the west indies again ! I cant believe what i am see ! Fantastic.
West Indies 0 England 2 ?
 
BarfBag
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RE: England Beat West Indies!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 12:45 am

Barfbag, beats me how you can complain about pitches in New Zealand when everyone has to put up with blatantly doctored strips in India.

"Blatantly doctored strips" ? You're getting a wee bit carried away aren't you ? I mean, its not like English batsmen know how to play spin, anyway, unless you're talking about putting a spin on Atherton's ball tampering  Big grin But seriously, while I agree with your contention, the thing is, doctored Indian pitches are more or less a fact of life, but outrageously bad pitches in NZ are not. Wickets there do have lots of life in them, but not necessarily as bad as it was during the last India-NZ series before the world cup. Both Ganguly and Fleming blasted the condition of the grounds, alright, though I imagine Fleming did so between guffaws Embarrassment
 
Banco
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RE: England Beat West Indies!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 2:34 am

I think the issue with New Zealand in recent years has been the drop in pitches that they use because so many of the grounds are not specifically cricket ones.

When England were last down there the pitches were a weird reversal of most test strips in that they would be completely unplayable for the first two and a half days, but by the end they would be batting paradises.

Certainly, the current set seem to having especially great problems. I was reading an article by Mark Richardson who was saying how this has to be got right if it isn't to become a lottery.

Anyway, Hussain and Thorpe know how to play spin. The problem is that in England they never get to see the really unusual Murali/Warne/Kumble/Saqlain type of spinner in our domestic cricket. Interestingly they mastered Murali on the last tour but one, but when they were there last year he'd come up with his decidedly dubious delivery that goes the other way. As the first team to see it, they were at something of a disadvantage.  Big grin

By the way, England rounded off victory in the West Indies today. Not without alarms I might add - Hussain was out to the second ball of the morning, and two balls later Ridley Jacobs dropped a regulation catch from Graham Thorpe. That was it though, and twenty minutes later Thorpe and Butcher finished the game in a flurry of boundaries.

Incidentally, there's one player who I really admire - Mark Butcher. He looked certain to be just another mediocre England batsman; he was going through various personal crises, had been dropped and it looked like his career was over. He went back, had a whole winter of coaching and work with his Dad (Alan) and came back so much better. For the last two and half years he's been pretty much their best player, averaging around 50. I'm sure most of us can see something to admire in a player who may not be the most naturally talented ever to walk onto the Test arena, but has worked and worked and worked, to make the very best of what he has.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
TSV
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RE: England Beat West Indies!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 2:51 am

"Interestingly they mastered Murali on the last tour but one, but when they were there last year he'd come up with his decidedly dubious delivery that goes the other way."

What this one?

http://aus.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/CRICKET_NEWS/2004/MAR/098629_SL_17MAR2004.html
"I told you I was ill ..." Spike Milligan
 
Banco
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RE: England Beat West Indies!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 3:16 am

Yep, that's the one. The thing is, I've always felt that his ordinary delivery is probably OK, in that the rule states that it's the straightening of the arm that is a problem, and he didn't seem to do that. With the doosra, however, it's a different matter, and whilst I wouldn't go as far as to say it's illegal, it certainly is, as I said above, dubious.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
TSV
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RE: England Beat West Indies!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:23 am

"Yes Mitires a bit flat. He's been up chucking all night. The Sri Lankans have rested him so that he'll be all pumped up for the match against Australia. Some pretty awful jokes there but who gives a ****."
"I told you I was ill ..." Spike Milligan

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