commander_rabb
Posts: 723
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2000 6:59 am

The Madrid Bombing Fallout

Tue Mar 16, 2004 1:27 pm

Face it, a Bush ally and his government got the axe. So in some minds on here, that is a good thing. They are rejoicing.

But looking forward at the terrorist act itself and the bigger picture, I would shudder to think of what this action of the Spanish voters in suddenly pushing out Aznar's government (remember they were still ahead in the polls pre-attack) will do in the long term. You cannot say the election was not influenced by the March 11th attack.

If I were an Italian, I would be wondering, are we next? After all, this little attack of 10 bombs and the tragic death of 200 Spaniards has caused a voting population to be influenced by the terrorist act itself. That can be very tempting for terrorists.

That's my issue. Not the issue of losing a "Bush" ally.

Terrorism is bigger than any of us, and bigger than our own political agenda. We need to realize that.

Someone asked, "what would you expect the Spanish voters to do?" Well, I would expect them to probably vote the way they did. What Spain needs to do now, is to really crack down on terrorism. Severely crack down on it and make a statement that this kind of act will have serious repercussions.

This way, we all can say we won over this cowardly terrorist act.



[Edited 2004-03-16 05:35:01]
 
jwenting
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RE: The Madrid Bombing Fallout

Tue Mar 16, 2004 2:33 pm

Of course the new socialist/communist government in Spain will do quite the reverse from a crackdown.

They'll give in to whatever demands terrorists make in order to avoid more bombings...
And THAT will have the effect to incite MORE terrorist attacks elsewhere (though maybe not in Spain, however a quick reminder now and again helps keep the enemy on edge so who knows) rather than less, as the only thing giving in to terrorists does is encourage them to increase their demands.
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yanksn4
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RE: The Madrid Bombing Fallout

Tue Mar 16, 2004 2:35 pm

Yes, every ally that, rightfully, supported the United States of America going into Iraq should be worried. I mean this is just sending a message to the terrorist that if you attack us, we will give in and follow your demands. That is the message we can not send, we should be saying that if you attack us, we will not stand down and let you win. Anyway, I unfortunately think that around October or November, even maybe around September 11th, that Al-Qaida is going after us again. I wish this wasn't the case, but I just feel this coming.
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Alpha 1
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RE: The Madrid Bombing Fallout

Tue Mar 16, 2004 2:36 pm

Yes, what you should do is kiss the U.S's ass, and just follow their lead, right, Yanksn4? That's what you're telling us.
 
Klaus
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Commander_Rabb

Tue Mar 16, 2004 10:25 pm

Commander_Rabb: If I were an Italian, I would be wondering, are we next?

Sadly, some terrorists may interpret the situation like that. But they are badly mistaken and will suffer for it.


Commander_Rabb: After all, this little attack of 10 bombs and the tragic death of 200 Spaniards has caused a voting population to be influenced by the terrorist act itself.

No, not exactly. Everything I´ve heard so far consistently indicates it wasn´t the bombing itself, but the mishandling by the Aznar administration that reminded people of how they handled the Iraq campaign before and brought additional socialist voters to the polls. (Rather than causing people to change their votes.)

The terrorists managed to pull the foreign policy issue back into the spotlight and gave the Aznar administration a chance to screw up, but that´s it. Had they handled the situation properly, they would still have won by all accounts.

As deluded as they are, the terrorists will probably not recognize this crucial difference, but that´s their loss (and future defeat).


Commander_Rabb: Terrorism is bigger than any of us, and bigger than our own political agenda. We need to realize that.

Yes. Absolutely.


Commander_Rabb: What Spain needs to do now, is to really crack down on terrorism. Severely crack down on it and make a statement that this kind of act will have serious repercussions.

Yes, and I´m certain that´s what will continue to happen. I don´t know of any western country that´s "soft on terrorism", regardless of political direction. Our own interior minister may be a social democrat (former green), but he´s certainly up to his job, even going overboard at times. Everybody is taking this absolutely serious. And despite any differences about Iraq, the cooperation on security matters has never ceased or weakened.


Commander_Rabb: This way, we all can say we won over this cowardly terrorist act.

We will. And if even we two agree, the terrorists can´t win.
 
Krushny
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RE: The Madrid Bombing Fallout

Tue Mar 16, 2004 10:49 pm

Commander Rabb, absolutely agree with your post.
And do not expect PSOE to turn "soft" on terrorism, they were not when they were in power quite the contrary. The policy on terrorism here is a consensus between the main parties (PP & PSOE), and I am sure there will no changes in that.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: The Madrid Bombing Fallout

Tue Mar 16, 2004 10:51 pm

Oh, and Commander Rabb, I forgot to add that that was probably the most concise, well thought-out of post you've ever had. I wish I saw more of that from you. But I agree with what you said, 100%
 
prosa
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RE: The Madrid Bombing Fallout

Tue Mar 16, 2004 11:35 pm

Everything I´ve heard so far consistently indicates it wasn´t the bombing itself, but the mishandling by the Aznar administration that reminded people of how they handled the Iraq campaign before and brought additional socialist voters to the polls. (Rather than causing people to change their votes.)

According to accounts I've read, Aznar's insistence on blaming ETA for the attacks, even when the evidence pointed strongly in favor of Islamic involvement, did not go over well with the voters.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
electraBob
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RE: The Madrid Bombing Fallout

Tue Mar 16, 2004 11:45 pm

Take a look at the stock market losses during the past week. Some of last weeks losses were due to bad earnings forecasts, but the majority of the downturn was due to the Madrid bombings. If it wasn't for a knee-jerk upswing on Friday, the losses would have been much worse.

But then take a look at what happened yesterday (Monday) -- Dow down another 137 pts -- NASDAQ down another 45 1/2 points.....much of yesterday's losses were due to uncertainty from the Spanish elections, and, of course, the fear of more terrorism.
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vafi88
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RE: The Madrid Bombing Fallout

Tue Mar 16, 2004 11:48 pm

...is to really crack down on terrorism. Severely crack down on it and make a statement that this kind of act will have serious repercussions.


The same goes for the US. So then why aren't we attacking Yasser Arafat? Why aren't we attacking some of the palestinian nations which are targeting Israel first and then might move on to something bigger? Are we waiting for them to become a threat to the US?
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tbar220
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RE: The Madrid Bombing Fallout

Wed Mar 17, 2004 12:29 am

I'm sorry, I must have missed something. Where did it say anywhere that this new government was going to be soft on terrorism? I don't recall the war in Iraq being a war on terror. Just because they're not going to remain in Iraq doesn't mean they're going to crack down on terror.

Do you seriously think that after having 200 of their citizens blown to bits that Spain is going to go easy on terrorism? Reality check dude.
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cfalk
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RE: The Madrid Bombing Fallout

Wed Mar 17, 2004 3:20 am

I think that it is now safe to assume that there will be some series of massive attacks at the U.S. on late October - early November. Having seen that it can work in Spain, Al Qaeda will see it as an opportunity to shake Americans to their core and result in Bush being thrown out of office. Sweet revenge for Bin Ladin. Even if the race is close up to that point, if there is a repeat of 9/11, Bush will be absolutely squashed at the polls, with emotions running so high.

This is the essence of terrorism - using terror to manipulate the political direction of nations. It's a sad day when we give in to it.

Maybe it would be a good idea to delay an election for two weeks or so following a major terrorist act, just to allow emotions to cool.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13916
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RE: The Madrid Bombing Fallout

Wed Mar 17, 2004 3:32 am

For those who don´t remember, back in the 80´s the same socialist party set up an illegal paramilitary organisation called GAL to counterterrorise
ETA members and supporters.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
aloges
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RE: The Madrid Bombing Fallout

Wed Mar 17, 2004 3:35 am

Just for your information, France has been threatened with attacks by a "Muslim" extremist group:

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,290949,00.html (I have not found anything in English yet.)
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: The Madrid Bombing Fallout

Wed Mar 17, 2004 3:46 am

Not just this, France has suffered similar bombing attacks on public places in the 80´s-90´s. What happened to WTC was originaly planned as an attack on Paris with a hijacked AF A300, only the hijackers ran out of fuel and the plane was assaulted by a SWAT team during a fuel stop.
There was an attempt by Al Qaeda terrorists based in Germany to attack a famous christmas fair in the French town of Strassbourg with bombs. Fortunately German police found out about it in time and arrested the terrorists in Frankfurt redhanded with pictures and drawings of the square the fair was to be held in, while they were preparing the bombs. They are serving life terms in Germany now.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
commander_rabb
Posts: 723
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2000 6:59 am

RE: The Madrid Bombing Fallout

Wed Mar 17, 2004 4:14 am

None of us are immune to any terrorist act. You have to realize that we are dealing with irrational people. If given the opportunity, they will strike anywhere and for whatever sordid reason they may have.

I do not believe that there will be a strike of major significance in the United States prior to the November elections.

For the record, all of Europe is incredibly focused on anit-terrorism. The record behind the scenes is astonishing in what has been prevented both there and in the United States. Some of you may actually be shocked at how well all of us are working with each other to win.

You see, we are better than any terrorist. All of us.

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