saintsman
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Being Unfaithful - Where Do You Cross The Line?

Tue Mar 16, 2004 9:59 pm

There is a big scandal going on in the UK with three Premier League footballers accused of sexual assult whilst in Spain.

One of the accused has admitted to partaking in a sexual act with one of the women prior to the alleged assult.

He was talking about oral sex (on him). He is in a stable relationship and has children. Is having that sort of contact with a stranger (or even someone you know) considered being unfaithful or do you have to go all the way? Is there a line that you have to cross before it counts and is it a different line for men and women?

Opinions?
 
QIguy24
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RE: Being Unfaithful - Where Do You Cross The Line?

Tue Mar 16, 2004 10:02 pm

Bein unfaithful is when you first start kissing. But it's ok if it's a friendly kiss.
But when you do like th Leicester players have done, THAT is being unfaithful. So I don't feel sorry for them. And they have probably done this many other times but was unlucky to get caught this time.






[Edited 2004-03-16 14:12:12]
 
Guest

RE: Being Unfaithful - Where Do You Cross The Line?

Tue Mar 16, 2004 10:21 pm

"Is having that sort of contact with a stranger (or even someone you know) considered being unfaithful..."

Let me see if I can make my reply appropriately unambiguous...

That type of activity absolutely constitutes infidelity.

'Speed
 
Guest

RE: Being Unfaithful - Where Do You Cross The Line?

Tue Mar 16, 2004 10:21 pm

If you have sexual feelings for someone other than your spouse and you ACT on those feelings in ANY capacity (physically, verbally, writing letters, etc., even obsessing over it in your mind) then you are being unfaithful.

Perpetuating this contact will only lead to others being hurt.

WALK AWAY !
 
Kay
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RE: Being Unfaithful - Where Do You Cross The Line?

Tue Mar 16, 2004 11:05 pm

Perpetuating this contact will only lead to others being hurt.

and yourself too!! A reality that is not immediately obvious.

This kind of contact *might* encourage emotional attachment in you, which in turn will "burn" everytime you are going to see your new secret girlfriend with someone else. That alone is a new pain in your life with a capital P.
You might go and imagine that this pain is more unbearable than seeing your current wife with someone else. Who knows what you might think. You might even run after your new partner, not knowing that what had a messy start will probably have a messy ending. To cut a long story short, you are going to lose a lot, the only unclear thing is, what's it gonna be. Could be just emotional happiness.

yet again... If I was a football star traveling the world with hoards of models running after me...

actually no I wouldn't do it neither if I truly loved the woman I'm with..

kay
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Being Unfaithful - Where Do You Cross The Line?

Tue Mar 16, 2004 11:23 pm

If you have sexual feelings for someone other than your spouse and you ACT on those feelings in ANY capacity (physically, verbally, writing letters, etc., even obsessing over it in your mind) then you are being unfaithful.

Acting on it, yes, you're being unfaithful. Fantasizing about other people, that's not being unfaithful. Human beings are not unfeeling automotons, and fantasy is not being unfaithful. I've never bought that, and never will.
 
prosa
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RE: Being Unfaithful - Where Do You Cross The Line?

Tue Mar 16, 2004 11:27 pm

"Eatin' ain't cheatin'!"

-- Bill Clinton
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
Guest

RE: Being Unfaithful - Where Do You Cross The Line?

Tue Mar 16, 2004 11:50 pm

"...and fantasy is not being unfaithful."

While it might not meet the strict definition of adultery, I tend to think that fantasizing, especially when one is already married, is within the realm of "thin ice." For all you Christian types out there, consult Matthew 5:28.

'Speed
 
Guest

RE: Being Unfaithful - Where Do You Cross The Line?

Tue Mar 16, 2004 11:57 pm

Acting on it, yes, you're being unfaithful. Fantasizing about other people, that's not being unfaithful. Human beings are not unfeeling automotons, and fantasy is not being unfaithful. I've never bought that, and never will.

Are you married, Alpha ? If so, would your wife agree with that statement ? If not, then what do you even know about the subject ?

I think that if I were to get wrapped up in fantasy over another woman I would be taking something away from my wife.

Besides... To me, other women PALE in comparison.  Smile

signed,

- VERY happily married Jeff

[Edited 2004-03-16 16:01:32]
 
ben
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RE: Being Unfaithful - Where Do You Cross The Line?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 12:02 am

I'm not commenting on the morality of cheating or being faithful since I enjoy more than one regular girl, however I will say one thing:

Assuming you claim to be faithful, if you seriously think that getting a blowjob does not constitute cheating, you are living in cloud cuckoo land.

Even better... why not ask your partner if that blowjob you got from someone else was actually cheating. Just see the reaction you get!!

- VERY happily single Ben

[Edited 2004-03-16 16:03:57]
 
Guest

RE: Being Unfaithful - Where Do You Cross The Line?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 12:08 am

Ben,

You made an excellent point. If something you are doing with another woman is not something you would be willing to discuss in detail with your wife, then you're cheating. That would even extend to protracted fantasizing. Is it something you could comfortably tell her ?

In other words, why shield her ? Would she be offended ?

There you go.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Being Unfaithful - Where Do You Cross The Line?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 12:21 am

Are you married, Alpha ? If so, would your wife agree with that statement ?

I know for a fact my wife does agree with the statement. Next question.
 
Guest

RE: Being Unfaithful - Where Do You Cross The Line?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 12:26 am

Are you married, Alpha ? If so, would your wife agree with that statement ?

I know for a fact my wife does agree with the statement. Next question.


Well if your wife doesn't mind being cheapened by your horny fantasies then you two have no basis of trust. Sad and pathetic.
 
jamesag96
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RE: Being Unfaithful - Where Do You Cross The Line?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 12:41 am

And if some of you men on here don't think your wife fantasizes about Tom Cruise, Brad Pitt, the hot guy in accounting...or whomever, then you are in la la land.

I would argue that Alpha and his wife have a very good basis of trust, if they have talked about it, and in the end know it is eachother they sleep next to at night.

J
Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
 
Guest

RE: Being Unfaithful - Where Do You Cross The Line?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 12:47 am

And if some of you men on here don't think your wife fantasizes about Tom Cruise, Brad Pitt, the hot guy in accounting...or whomever, then you are in la la land.

I understand your point. My concern is when fantasy with someone else overshadows your REAL relationship, that can't help but be unhealthy.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Being Unfaithful - Where Do You Cross The Line?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 12:47 am

GoEVA, stop shoving your puritanical beliefs down my throat. What is pathetic is you think people should live a frigid, boring existence, and you cannot accept that others don't see the world in the same sterile way as you do.

You asked me if my wife minded. I said she didn't. But that's not good enough for Mr. Holier-than-thou. You still have to make yourself try and look better and purer than the rest of us.

Which is why I take your "God Bless" stuff with a grain of salt. It's hypocritical, and I find it insulting.

If you don't like the fact that I have a healthy imagination, that is your problem, not mine. I've been married going on 16 years, and have 3 great children, so I guess I'm doing something right, no matter what you and your little puritanical beliefs might think to the contrary.

Take that, and bless it, if you can.
 
Guest

RE: Being Unfaithful - Where Do You Cross The Line?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 12:52 am

Wow,

We got a little excited there, didn't we Alpha ?  Smile

I'm glad you and I both have wonderful marriages. Congratulations. How about we leave it at that ?
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Being Unfaithful - Where Do You Cross The Line?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:04 am

Forget it, Go4EVA. I'm not letting you off the hook for such idiocy. Yes, I get a little "excited" when some puritanical tells me I'm not living up to HIS expetations. You know where you can place your puritanism.

Now, I'll leave it at that. Keep your preaching on private matters to your family and those who want to live like little robots. I don't need ot hear it from the likes of you.
 
Guest

RE: Being Unfaithful - Where Do You Cross The Line?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:08 am

I think Alpha may have somewhat of a point. If he and his wife are "cool" with simultaneous fantasy, then I guess there is not much we can say about it. Seems a little on the dysfunctional side to me, but hey, if it works for them, so be it--I'm not the one callin' the shots in Alpha's family.

However, I think there is a lot of truth to the statement that Jeff made; "My concern is when fantasy with someone else overshadows your REAL relationship, that can't help but be unhealthy." That is one reason why pornography is so dangerous to marital relationships. It introduces an idealized and unrealistic expectation which cannot do anything but undermine the existing, as Jeff put it, "real" relationship. I think fantasy is the same situation.

Sure, we are all prone to it, but we definitely need not let it linger.

'Speed
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Being Unfaithful - Where Do You Cross The Line?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:26 am

Well if your wife doesn't mind being cheapened by your horny fantasies then you two have no basis of trust. Sad and pathetic.

And who are you to judge? That was uncalled for. Alpha 1's wife is not cheapened in any way by his occasional fantasies. You've got some nerve to question the trust level within someone else's relationship.

I think the problem here is that perhaps you're afraid of what your fantasies mean, and therefore feel the need to dismiss them as morally wrong.

"Oh my God, am I questioning my love for my wife?!?"  Nuts

Look, the occasional fantasy is a healthy thing. If anything, it's actually an affirmation of your deep love for your spouse - sure, you may occasionally think of that hot Victoria's Secret model or whoever, but as others have said, at the end of the day it's your wife that you're with, and your wife who is (hopefully) your best friend.

Besides, you're kidding yourself if you think your wife doesn't have the occasional fantasy, too.

It's obsessing about others or acting on those obsessions that are harmful and wrong.

"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
Guest

RE: Being Unfaithful - Where Do You Cross The Line?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:31 am

Sure, we are all prone to it, but we definitely need not let it linger.

I agree, 'Speed. The lingering is what is unhealthy to a marriage.

It's obsessing about others or acting on those obsessions that are harmful and wrong.

OBSESSING was what I was talking about. Re-read my posts.
 
Guest

RE: Being Unfaithful - Where Do You Cross The Line?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:43 am

"...the occasional fantasy is a healthy thing. If anything, it's actually an affirmation of your deep love for your spouse."

EA CO AS,

I really liked that part in your post about the obsessing. However, I can't say that I agree with the above quoted. Care to elaborate so that I can see where you are coming from?

'Speed
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Being Unfaithful - Where Do You Cross The Line?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:53 am

Care to elaborate so that I can see where you are coming from?

What I meant is that the act of just having a fantasy (as opposed to acting on it and being unfaithful) proves that your love is such that you'd never stray from your spouse.

I'd be pretty arrogant to think that I'm the only thing in this world that could ever turn on or excite my girl, but it doesn't mean she wants other guys. Likewise, most women understand that men can be attracted to other women (and even fantasize about them) without meaning they want to cheat.


"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
Guest

RE: Being Unfaithful - Where Do You Cross The Line

Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:33 am

Wow.. again I am agreeing with Alpha1.

Stop living in a dream world EVA. We all fantasize, women included and just because someone is married does not mean they are dead.

According to Alpha1s favorite US president a blow job is not sex. If its not sex then its not cheating.

I sorta have to think if you get off from it or your fun parts intentionally come in contact with the other person its cheating.
 
Guest

RE: Being Unfaithful - Where Do You Cross The Line?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:44 am

your wife fantasizes about Tom Cruise, Brad Pitt, the hot guy in accounting...

I've been married going on 16 years, and have 3 great children



3 children... Coincidence ? I think not.  Big grin

We all fantasize, women included and just because someone is married does not mean they are dead.

Again, some reading lessons might help you Startvalve. Read my posts not just the comments on them. Obsessing over another is what's not healthy to a relationship... Got it this time ? Good boy.

[Edited 2004-03-16 21:46:46]
 
777236ER
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RE: Being Unfaithful - Where Do You Cross The Line?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:47 am

Read my posts not just the comments on them. Obsessing over another is what's not healthy to a relationship... Got it this time ? Good boy.

Er...

You said:

Well if your wife doesn't mind being cheapened by your horny fantasies then you two have no basis of trust. Sad and pathetic.

That wasn't in relation to Alpha having fantasies over other women, NOT obsessing over them.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
Guest

RE: Being Unfaithful - Where Do You Cross The Line?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:55 am

Er...

You said:

Well if your wife doesn't mind being cheapened by your horny fantasies then you two have no basis of trust. Sad and pathetic.

That wasn't in relation to Alpha having fantasies over other women, NOT obsessing over them.


True, but I started out with the preface:

"I think that if I were to get wrapped up in fantasy over another woman I would be taking something away from my wife."

and said:

"I understand your point. My concern is when fantasy with someone else overshadows your REAL relationship, that can't help but be unhealthy. "

and also said:

"I agree, 'Speed. The lingering is what is unhealthy to a marriage."


Context, my boy  Smile

But good of you to keep me sharp, 777'.  Big grin

 
777236ER
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RE: Being Unfaithful - Where Do You Cross The Line?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:57 am

There wasn't much context to be had, Alpha said he had fantasies, you said it was sad and pathetic. Careful now, you don't want to enforce your views on others  Smile
Your bone's got a little machine
 
Guest

RE: Being Unfaithful - Where Do You Cross The Line?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 6:02 am

There wasn't much context to be had

Really ? So everything else I wrote on the subject before and after that particular post gives no context at all ?

Careful now, you don't want to enforce your views on others

"enforce" ? Never. Give my opinion in a thread which asks for opinions ? Oh yes !  Smile
 
Guest

RE: Being Unfaithful - Where Do You Cross The Line

Wed Mar 17, 2004 6:51 am

I see even this thread is deteriorating into a flamewar.. play nice children.
 
jamesag96
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RE: Being Unfaithful - Where Do You Cross The Line?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 6:56 am

..."Alpha said he had fantasies"....

Alpha, I am blushing I had no idea...but alas it can never be, I am too attached to the women folk.

 Smile
James
Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
 
Guest

RE: Being Unfaithful - Where Do You Cross The Line?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 7:02 am

Alpha, I am blushing I had no idea...but alas it can never be, I am too attached to the women folk.


 Big thumbs up
 
Guest

RE: Being Unfaithful - Where Do You Cross The Line?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 7:12 am

"According to Alpha1s favorite US president a blow job is not sex. If its not sex then its not cheating."

Try explaining that one to your girlfriend! (And whether it is or not, I wouldn't take Slick Willey's opinion as gospel truth.)

'Speed
 
RNOcommctr
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RE: Being Unfaithful - Where Do You Cross The Line?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 12:14 pm

I have heard of a good guideline for how to tell if something is flirting or worse... the question you should ask yourself is, "If my spouse/significant other were in the room hearing what I was saying to this person and seeing what I was doing with this person, would they be OK with it?" To me, this serves as a useful guideline.
Active loading only, ma'am, keep it moving!
 
mirrodie
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RE: Being Unfaithful - Where Do You Cross The Line?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:51 pm

GoEva, first you say
"You made an excellent point. If something you are doing with another woman is not something you would be willing to discuss in detail with your wife, then you're cheating. That would even extend to protracted fantasizing. Is it something you could comfortably tell her ?"

and you called it cheating. Then you say
"Sure, we are all prone to it, but we definitely need not let it linger.
I agree, 'Speed. The lingering is what is unhealthy to a marriage."


So what is your point? Which are you guilty of then? Fess up  Wink/being sarcastic

If one can't share that depth of personal thought with their wife, then perhaps the secrets are more a concern than the thoughts??

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