trijetfan1
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The Collapse Of China?

Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:47 am

I recently heard that China has a very serious problem. As you may know female babies are less desirable than male babies in China . Couples are allowed one child and if they find thast their fetus is female it will be aborterd. This raises an enormous problem, the ratio of female to males turns out to be 117 males to 100 females. Now, if you do the math and figure that over a billion people, the ratio is heavily lopsided. In the future the females will become sparse and then males will resort to such actions as prostitution and rape among other terrible things. Also with such figures it may be fair to raise a question; will homosexuality increase? I would have to say yes. If those three factors increase, another huge problem comes up. That problem is AIDS. AIDS in China, is more out of control than any other place besides central Africa. This shows when you mess with mother mature, you will lose!

Source the Washington Times

Post your comments questions and opinions
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L.1011
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RE: The Collapse Of China?

Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:49 am

Exibit 31002623856823769327581385 as to why communism is bad. God.
 
tbar220
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RE: The Collapse Of China?

Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:53 am

Trijet,

Its a tricky situation, but I don't think it will lead to the collapse of China. AIDS is pretty bad here in the USA, there's a high rate of sexual violence, and we're still around.
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trijetfan1
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RE: The Collapse Of China?

Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:55 am

China is a lot different from the United States of America
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tbar220
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RE: The Collapse Of China?

Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:56 am

Well of course, but again I don't think that the spread of AIDS and the lack of women will bring about the collapse of China. It will probably cause problems, but its a big country with lots of economic potential, so I doubt it will be catastrophic.
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trijetfan1
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RE: The Collapse Of China?

Tue Mar 23, 2004 11:03 am

Tbar220-
Well when I said the collapse of China, I meant the collapse of communism and their way of female discrimination.
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Goose
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RE: The Collapse Of China?

Tue Mar 23, 2004 11:10 am

The female discrimination bit is a cultural thing; Communism has little to do with it, aside from allowing it to continue. It's rooted in the value the culture places on males over females.

Some parts of Indian society have a similar problem; several news magazines published years ago about how the proliferation of cheap ultrasounds in India has been linked to a spike in elective abortions; in nearly all cases they brought up, the babies were aborted because they were girls. India is supposed to be a free and democratic country.

Personnally, I think the collapse or effective dissolution of Communist power in China is inevitable. While it's easy to be a an authoritarian dictatorship over a backwater with people more concerned with finding their next meal than politics - because keeping the people poor isn't so difficult - it's not as easy in a country in which computers and television are proliferating and the Internet are flourishing, and consumer goods are becoming more and more common. People get richer, and are able to feed themselves without much trouble - then they start to make grumblings about how they can't speak their mind about political issues.
"Talk to me, Goose..."
 
jcs17
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RE: The Collapse Of China?

Tue Mar 23, 2004 11:11 am

AIDS is pretty bad here in the USA

AIDS is not "pretty bad" in the United States. Despite what you might hear from the media, AIDS is no longer a huge health risk in the US anymore. Do a large percent of people still have it, absolutely, but a lot more people die of cancer and smoking. Go to Africa or some parts of Asia and you will see where AIDS is "pretty bad." In fact, I wish the government would begin cutting funding back for AIDS research (no I'm not saying cut it all, not even by half), but its largely a preventable disease and people can live nearly a full life with HIV without it developing into AIDS with the great drugs we have today. There are some real killer diseases out in the world today--a lot of which have no cure, and in the US HIV/AIDS simply isn't one of them anymore.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
skyservice_330
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RE: The Collapse Of China?

Tue Mar 23, 2004 2:37 pm

"Great Drugs we have today."

Go ask someone with AIDS what a "drug vacation" or "drug holiday" is.
 
ben
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RE: The Collapse Of China?

Tue Mar 23, 2004 6:17 pm

Exibit 31002623856823769327581385 as to why communism is bad. God.

Yeah Yeah Yeah.. communism is the root of all the world's evils... Do we have to hear it from you another 31002623856823769327581385 times?

Come back and talk to me in 5 years, young man. Then we will see if you still have all the answers to everything.
 
sebolino
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RE: The Collapse Of China?

Tue Mar 23, 2004 6:51 pm

TriJetFan,

1) AIDS is not specifically related to homosexuality. In which world do you live ?

2) Homosexuality is not a consequence of Men/Women ratio. Where did you hear that crap ?

3) AIDS will probably not make any country collapse, but will perhaps lower the average age of death.
In some African countries, the "hope of life" is as low as 30 years due to a high AIDS rate and no medication.
 
Russophile
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RE: The Collapse Of China?

Tue Mar 23, 2004 7:04 pm

Exibit 31002623856823769327581385 as to why communism is bad. God.

Capitalism is centred entirely around greed. Nothing more -- nothing less. Greed! If there was a 'god', there is no way that he would endorse capitalism as a way for humans to live.

Luke 12:15 -- And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness for a man’s life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth.

If anything, 'god' would want us to live in a socialistic world, where wealth is distributed, where there is no greed, everyone is provided for, etc.

So in future, please be a good right-wing christian fundamentalist nutter, and don't try to use your 'god' as justification as to why communism/socialism is a bad thing  Insane
 
sebolino
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RE: The Collapse Of China?

Tue Mar 23, 2004 7:12 pm

Capitalism is centred entirely around greed. Nothing more -- nothing less.

That's unfortunately true. And that's the reason why Communism doesn't work: Egoism and greed is ALWAYS stronger than the system. The natural individualism is so strong that you can't force people to share.

 
ben
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RE: The Collapse Of China?

Tue Mar 23, 2004 7:27 pm

Capitalism, Communism, yeah ok...

Let's not allow L.1011 to ruin this thread and take it off-track with his immature comment.

The desire to have boys and all the awful things done to 'help' change the balance is a purely cultural thing. It has nothing to do with political ideology.
 
kilavoud
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RE: The Collapse Of China?

Tue Mar 23, 2004 8:43 pm

Goose

In India it is no more allowed for a couple to try to know what will be the sex of the baby before birth. An it is much better like that.

Please do not mingle Indian culture with Chinese one.

Thank you. Kilavoud.
 
Goose
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RE: The Collapse Of China?

Tue Mar 23, 2004 11:03 pm

Kilavoud,

I'm merely relaying what I've read about and have seen - the TV news magazine was put out by the CBC years ago, I believe. I remember it quite well, as it was part of a school course I was taking at the time.
"Talk to me, Goose..."
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: The Collapse Of China?

Wed Mar 24, 2004 1:19 am

Capitalism is centred entirely around greed.

"Greed is good." - Gordon Gekko (Michael Douglas), Wall Street

Capitalism works when there are checks and balances - but then again Aviatsi...err, Russophile, I'm sure you're aware of that...and that it works far better than communism ever did.

But I digress.

TriJet makes a very valid point - circumventing natural selection to have a disproportionately higher population of males vs. females can have a negative impact on society.

Time will tell whether or not it has a profound impact on China as a whole.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
North County
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RE: The Collapse Of China?

Wed Mar 24, 2004 2:49 am

The root of the problem is that the COMMUNIST based government is limiting couples to one child.

The cultural issue in China is rooted far in the past. People were so poor that having male or female children could make or break the extended family. Male children would grow up to be higher producing laborers to support the expanded family latter in life. Female children would produce less in terms of labor as they grew older and into adulthood.

A female offspring would have to carry a dowry that would be given to her husband upon marriage - another cost. It came down to the extended family surviving, not males being better then females. People in China today still carry that thinking today because it has been so rooted in their cultural heritage.

God provides for the birth of both male and females - he would never condone selective abortions. This is man deciding what is "best"

God does not support Communism, Socialism, or even Capitalism.

"Isms" were the creation of "man" not God.

God wants us to have free agency - to make our own decisions. He gives us direction but his greatest hope is that we will choose his path over any other not because of money, fame or because he ordered us to do it....

Authoritarian rule is the opposite of what God wants for us.... Satan's way is one of authoritarian rule, not allowing us free agency.


Think of the relationship between God and man as a parent-child relationship. The Father would want the child to be free to pick their own path and be happy. He wants them to follow his advice because they chose his way not because of the threat of the "hammer"

I would also like to point out that freedom of religion was not allowed in the communist systems. I wonder why?
 
jcs17
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RE: The Collapse Of China?

Wed Mar 24, 2004 2:55 am

Go ask someone with AIDS what a "drug vacation" or "drug holiday" is.

Go ask someone with Alzheimers or ALS what drugs are slowing the progression of their disease down.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
ben
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RE: The Collapse Of China?

Wed Mar 24, 2004 3:01 am

Right, so Communism in China (basically the Chinese government) is evil..

...unless that evil communist government helps you all to get cheap Nike shoes and that $99 DVD player, right?

Most favoured nation??? Hypocrites. Absolute hypocrites.
 
North County
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RE: The Collapse Of China?

Wed Mar 24, 2004 3:20 am

Ben,

Do you live under a harsh authoritarian rule?




I didn't think so......
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: The Collapse Of China?

Wed Mar 24, 2004 4:35 am

Right, so Communism in China (basically the Chinese government) is evil..

...unless that evil communist government helps you all to get cheap Nike shoes and that $99 DVD player, right?


Actually Ben, I think you're astute enough to know that the consumer products manufactured in China are a direct result of that country beginning to lean towards capitalism, or at least dabbling in it a bit.

"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
Russophile
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RE: The Collapse Of China?

Wed Mar 24, 2004 7:26 am

Do you live under a harsh authoritarian rule?

Of course he does. It's called the Blair government.  Big grin
 
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yyz717
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RE: The Collapse Of China?

Wed Mar 24, 2004 7:34 am

In due course, as baby girls become outnumbered, they will become "valuable" again. In the meantime, a gender imbalance will help restrict population growth, which can only be good for China.

Nonetheless, the baby-girl killing is a scathing indictment of Chinese societal morals....given its widespread appeal.
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777236ER
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RE: The Collapse Of China?

Wed Mar 24, 2004 7:43 am

There's just under 1 million HIV sufferers in the US, Jcs.

Are you willing to tell them...all of whom will suffer an agonising death...that AIDS isn't a major problem? One in every 293 people in the US has HIV.

Despite the fact that 4 million people have Alzheimer's, it's ludicrous to say that HIV/AIDS isn't a problem in the US.
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Alessandro
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RE: The Collapse Of China?

Wed Mar 24, 2004 8:25 am

Hardly, I think PRC is overpopulated anyway, so a smaller in population would
be good.
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
trijetfan1
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RE: The Collapse Of China?

Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:29 am

"Great Drugs we have today."

Go ask someone with AIDS what a "drug vacation" or "drug holiday" is.



Tell that to CDC bio level four workers who dress up in space suits everyday to try and find a cure for AIDS!!!! Tell them to step it up! GEEZ

Just think about a century ago influenza went around the world and killed 25 million people! We have made huge advances in medicine.
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StarAC17
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RE: The Collapse Of China?

Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:47 am

The one child policy is intended to decrease the population of a nation that has nearly 2 billion people in the 3rd largest landmass. It is not as evil as certain people on this thread make it out to be. It is a short term thing to reduce the population of China so that they can have what is common in all developed nations and that is a controlled population so that they have enough resources for everyone.

The fact that a male is preferred is a cultural thing as most people in China as the male continues the family name because the female usually changes their name once married. Also this policy is not as bad as it is made out to be as if a woman has twins they can keep both children. When I did research on this in High School I learned that the Chinese people are trying very hard to educate their population on how to use birth control to prevent having another child. I'm not 100% positive but when a mother has a female it is her decision to abort the child and to possibly have a male it isn't a law.
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skyservice_330
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RE: The Collapse Of China?

Wed Mar 24, 2004 12:27 pm

I am well aware that great advances have been made and I praise research from AIDS meds, however I wanted to point out the fact that being on drug therapy isn't as easy and peaches and cream as JCS seems to think in his post. They may prolong the persons life, but the drugs can have a serious effect on the quality of their life.
 
vafi88
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RE: The Collapse Of China?

Wed Mar 24, 2004 1:20 pm

The root of the problem is that the COMMUNIST based government is limiting couples to one child. - northcountry.


You have to think about these things, no matter what type of govt. they have/had/or will have, they have a population problem.

I read a paper on it in my geography class a few years ago that said that by 2020 China's population would be greater than 2.0 BILLION people if they didn't set some kind of limit.

Now, I'd like to see ANY government try and tackle the issue of feeding 2 billion mouths.
I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
 
jcs17
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RE: The Collapse Of China?

Wed Mar 24, 2004 2:39 pm

There's just under 1 million HIV sufferers in the US, Jcs.

Despite the fact that 4 million people have Alzheimer's, it's ludicrous to say that HIV/AIDS isn't a problem in the US.

Statisitically speaking, the two aren't even comparable thanks to the fact that people with HIV/AIDS live close to normal life spans today. Meanwhile, Alzheimers patients usually live between 5 to 10 years. In other words, looking into the future there are between six and twelve times the number of Alzheimers cases over a thirty year period than HIV cases.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
North County
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RE: The Collapse Of China?

Thu Mar 25, 2004 2:04 am

Their food production would go up in a less restrictive economy....

Sounds like those defending the one child rule on this forum were all first born males themselves.

And if you were a first born male just think what would have happened to you if the ultrasound could not determine you were a male?
 
Guest

RE: The Collapse Of China?

Thu Mar 25, 2004 2:28 am

Well, I have a son and a daughter. Obviously I love them both tremendously. Each one has a unique personality and endearing qualities. The Chinese parents, though, are only getting 50% of the family experience.

I think of all of the Chinese families who will never know the unique joy that I experience every day with my daughter and that makes me sad for them. My daughter is so special (I know every parent feels that way about his/her child). She is such a blessing to my family. You parents understand what I'm talking about.

I am also sickened that these children are considered "disposable" and are murdered. How can they even look at their son (after killing their daughter) and say "We love you so much."  Crying I know I couldn't.

That is hypocrisy.

God bless,

- Jeff
 
777236ER
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RE: The Collapse Of China?

Thu Mar 25, 2004 4:57 am

Statisitically speaking,

...anything's possible!

two aren't even comparable thanks to the fact that people with HIV/AIDS live close to normal life spans today. Meanwhile, Alzheimers patients usually live between 5 to 10 years. In other words, looking into the future there are between six and twelve times the number of Alzheimers cases over a thirty year period than HIV cases.

Made up stats? HIV suffers do NOT live normal lifespans, it is NOT a chronic disease, it is terminal. While someone who gets HIV today (and is rich - God bless American healthcare!) will live 10-15 years, it's not that much more than Alzheimer's patients.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
Wally236ER
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RE: The Collapse Of China?

Thu Mar 25, 2004 5:59 am

China is such a big country,the people in the far out-reaches need to be educated and the government need to be persuaded to change some of their ideas about family life!
 
Guest

RE: The Collapse Of China?

Thu Mar 25, 2004 7:32 am

China is such a big country,the people in the far out-reaches need to be educated and the government need to be persuaded to change some of their ideas about family life!

Agreed, but HOW ? That is quite an undertaking (no pun intended).

Ummm, Wally236ER.....Are you related to 777236ER ?

Just curious. All good things !

 Smile
 
kilavoud
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RE: The Collapse Of China?

Fri Mar 26, 2004 4:50 am

I must tell one thing !

I discovered the Chinese culture, as I had the opportunity to stop over eight times last year in Singapore, each time two or three days.

So many young people, so much joy, so much dynamism. I really never had the impression of a collapsing nation. Even the elder people gave me a good impression, a respectful one.

Again this year I hope to stop over a few times in Singapore. I like the climate, the people and of course I appreciate the other cultures of Singapore, especially the tamil culture, where I feel really at home, just like in India.

Cheers. Kilavoud.
 
docpepz
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RE: The Collapse Of China?

Fri Mar 26, 2004 12:40 pm

Kilavoud,

Singapore is not in China, you may realise...haha.

Singapore's culture is Singaporean, not totally Chinese. And remember that many ethnically Chinese Singaporeans don't even understand the mainland Chinese psyche and to most of us China is as foreign a country as Japan. And Chinese nationals think of Singaporeans as foreigners too anyway, largely due to the fact that most Singaporeans have a better command of English than Chinese these days.

Just because 77% of the Singaporean population is ethnically Chinese doesn't make us in any way part of greater China.

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