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Ralph Nader Calls For Bush's Impeachment

Fri Apr 09, 2004 11:33 pm

From: Yahoo! News
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=694&e=2&u=/ap/nader

Nader Calls for Bush to Be Impeached
Wed Apr 7,10:19 AM ET

By MAURA KELLY, Associated Press Writer

CHICAGO - Independent presidential candidate Ralph Nader (news - web sites) called Tuesday for President Bush (news - web sites) to be impeached for "deceiving the American people night after night after night" about U.S. involvement in Iraq (news - web sites).

"When you plunge our country into war on a platform of fabrications and deceptions, and you bring back thousands of American soldiers who are sick, injured or dead, and that war is unconstitutionally authorized to begin with, Mr. Bush's behavior qualifies for the high crimes and misdemeanor impeachment clause of the Constitution," the 2000 Green Party presidential nominee said to applause from about 200 students at Columbia College Chicago.


Nader said President Clinton (news - web sites) was impeached for "far less of an offense."


"Lying under oath is not a trivial offense, but it cannot compare with deceiving the American people night after night after night on national television, staging untruths and rejecting the advice of his advisers," he said.


Merrill Smith, a spokeswoman for Bush's re-election campaign, declined to comment.


Nader previously called for Bush's impeachment during an anti-war rally March 20 in the president's hometown of Crawford, Texas, to mark the first anniversary of the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq.


Nader, a longtime consumer advocate, was in Illinois to gather the 25,000 signatures he needs before June 21 to qualify for the state ballot. He failed Monday to qualify for Oregon's ballot, but said he would try again under another option there.


Many Democrats blame Nader for Democrat Al Gore (news - web sites)'s loss to Republican George W. Bush in 2000, and have urged him not to run this time. They cite the vote Nader captured in close contests in New Hampshire and Florida and argue that Gore would have won if either state had gone to the then-vice president.


But Nader says Gore is to blame for his misfortune, and he rejected the idea that he could draw support away from Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry (news - web sites), the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee.


In Portland, Ore., on Monday, former Democratic presidential contender Howard Dean (news - web sites) warned that "a vote for Ralph Nader is the same as a vote for George Bush."


An audience member in Chicago was booed for suggesting something similar.


Nader responded: "What we have to tell the two parties in unmistakable terms is that this country does not belong to two parties."
 
N6376M
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RE: Ralph Nader Calls For Bush's Impeachment

Fri Apr 09, 2004 11:35 pm

There's a lot of irony here, I guess the man responsible for Bush's election should have the right to call for his impeachment.
 
tbar220
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RE: Ralph Nader Calls For Bush's Impeachment

Fri Apr 09, 2004 11:36 pm

Nader said President Clinton (news - web sites) was impeached for "far less of an offense."


"Lying under oath is not a trivial offense, but it cannot compare with deceiving the American people night after night after night on national television, staging untruths and rejecting the advice of his advisers," he said.



This part hit home for me, it cannot be more true.

[Edited 2004-04-09 16:36:57]
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jaysit
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RE: Ralph Nader Calls For Bush's Impeachment

Fri Apr 09, 2004 11:41 pm

"There's a lot of irony here, I guess the man responsible for Bush's election should have the right to call for his impeachment."

Its Ralph's moment in the sun. He can afford to be a self-righteous prick right now.
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N6376M
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RE: Ralph Nader Calls For Bush's Impeachment

Fri Apr 09, 2004 11:52 pm

On the technical side, someone has to come up with a high crime or misdemeanor to charge GWB with in order to reach the Constitutional standard of impeachment.

I'm not aware that "lying to the American people" is either. I'm not saying it's right but not everything that's wrong is a crime.
 
N901FRwolf
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RE: Ralph Nader Calls For Bush's Impeachment

Fri Apr 09, 2004 11:52 pm

-quote-
"Lying under oath is not a trivial offense, but it cannot compare with deceiving the American people night after night after night on national television, staging untruths and rejecting the advice of his advisers," he said.
-quote-

True, and that is why I was for the Clinton impeachment, not because he had sex in the Oval office (big hairy deal), it is the fact he lied under oath about it. That rankled me to no end, because to me it meant that he had no respect or integrity.

Bush's doings? Don't get me started. I voted for the man in 2000, and if we were to go back in time to 2000, knowing what was going to happen, i still would have voted for him, but I sure as heck am not going to vote for him this year. In the battle of the lesser of 2 evils (Kerry vs. Bush) IMHO Kerry is the lesser of 2 evils.

my $.02
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RE: Ralph Nader Calls For Bush's Impeachment

Fri Apr 09, 2004 11:54 pm

Listen to the message and ignore the messenger. I'm not a Ralph Nader fan, but he is spot on here in my opinion...
 
L-188
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RE: Ralph Nader Calls For Bush's Impeachment

Sat Apr 10, 2004 12:23 pm

Just more noise from the man that killed the Corvair.

Has he actually managed to actually make the ballot in any state yet?
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RE: Ralph Nader Calls For Bush's Impeachment

Sat Apr 10, 2004 12:55 pm

True, and that is why I was for the Clinton impeachment, not because he had sex in the Oval office (big hairy deal),

Boy, could I have fun with that line, and what's in parenthesis.  Big grin But I shall desist.

As for Nadar, he needs to just retire somewhere.
 
Illini_152
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RE: Ralph Nader Calls For Bush's Impeachment

Sat Apr 10, 2004 1:15 pm

Can anyone point me to an instance where Bush actually LIED as people keep claiming? It seems to be the case that "if you tell a story enough times, and stick to it long enough, it doesn't matter if it's true or not"

The fact is, there is no evidence that Bush lied to the American people about Iraq. If so, then wouldn't the Democrats on the Senate intelligence and Armed Services committees already be coming forward with this? They recieved the SAME inteligence info as the President, and it all pointed to the same thing.

If Bush knew before hand there weren't any WMD's in Iraq, but pushed as hard as he did before hand to make that case, he'd have to be dumber than a box of rocks, as he'd have to know that when none turned up, it would make things VERY difficult for him in an election year. Politically, invading Iraq was not the wisest thing to do; very big risk, with little reward, except for making America safer in an indirect way. Then why do it? Unless all your intelligence showed that it WAS the right thing to do.

OK- so the intel was wrong, but this orgy of Bush bashing gets old after a while. Criticize the decision to go in all you want. But I would like to hear an intelligent arguement for once other than "he lied" and "for the oil"

Last I checked though, making a mistake is NOT the same as lying. Call him an idiot if you want for believing his intelligence officers. Or for taking a large political risk. But to call him a liar is just uninformed and ignorant.

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lehpron
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RE: Ralph Nader Calls For Bush's Impeachment

Sat Apr 10, 2004 1:22 pm

Nader is trying (and loosing, MO) the big-boys game. He won't get his wish if he stays, even those that vote for him have got to know that now is not the time for those folks to vote for what they believe in, if they want Bush out they need to use their head and NOT 4 FOR NADER.

I'm not a Nader-hater, I'd vote other than the standard if there been more chunks on his side, 5% doesn't cut it, unless we're talking about the recent California elections... What was it? A hundred cadidates?  Laugh out loud
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vafi88
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RE: Ralph Nader Calls For Bush's Impeachment

Sat Apr 10, 2004 1:27 pm

Can anyone point me to an instance where Bush actually LIED as people keep claiming?

It could be something along the lines of GWB telling the ENTIRE NATION that Iraq posesses WMDs and that they are a direct and growing threat to the prosperity of this nation.

The fact is, there is no evidence that Bush lied to the American people about Iraq.

Where are the weapons? Check out the testimony that Clarke and Rice did. Both had BS in it, but the fact that Condi never DIRECTLY answered the question made me even more suspicious. She kept going around it and blaming things on the Clinton Administration (which BTW wasn't perfect either)

How was Iraq a direct threat? If we have WMDs in a lot of countries (North Korea?) why haven't we attacked, eventhough they are the so called *enemy*?

The war may have been justified if they actually took the time to investigate, and not go from British intelligence. Someone said something along the lines of "We don't need British intelligence, we can damn well get our own intelligence".

Sorry, blaming it on other nations or the opposite political spectrum just doesn't cut it in this case.
I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
 
L-188
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RE: Ralph Nader Calls For Bush's Impeachment

Sat Apr 10, 2004 1:29 pm

Can anyone point me to an instance where Bush actually LIED as people keep claiming?

Exactly.

I have seen quite a bit of evidence that decisions where made on faulty information but outright lies.........that is something different, and I don't think the information and evidence to date supports that claim.
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vafi88
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RE: Ralph Nader Calls For Bush's Impeachment

Sat Apr 10, 2004 1:38 pm

L-188, care to read my post?

Not bashing, just check it out.
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L-188
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RE: Ralph Nader Calls For Bush's Impeachment

Sat Apr 10, 2004 1:40 pm

Vafi88, can you provide any proof that those claim wheren't based on the information provided by the intel agenices of various and multiple national intel agencies.
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vafi88
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RE: Ralph Nader Calls For Bush's Impeachment

Sat Apr 10, 2004 1:47 pm

L-188 (don't you just love the stylin' "88" in your sn?)

I'm saying that we shouldn't just jump to conclusions just because some phone company or some phony dude from Britain said it. We should have investigated it from OUR OWN agencies. CIA, NSC, NDD??? What if I said that you were a terrorist? That's a false allegation, and it's JUST AN ALLEGATION - people say sh!t all the time, it's HAVING PROOF what makes it count. Also - Remember innocent until proven guilty?
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Illini_152
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RE: Ralph Nader Calls For Bush's Impeachment

Sat Apr 10, 2004 1:49 pm

It could be something along the lines of GWB telling the ENTIRE NATION that Iraq posesses WMDs and that they are a direct and growing threat to the prosperity of this nation.

OK- that would be a mistake. IF we never find any weapons. If, however, you can show me that he KNEW that Iraq didn't have the WMD's and that they'd never pose a threat to this country, THEN that would be a LIE.

The fact is, there is no evidence that Bush lied to the American people about Iraq.

Where are the weapons?


Where is the proof that he KNEW they didn't have them. The fact is almost all the intel we had said that they still did have them. And don't forget- Iraq is a big country, and it's not hard to bury something in the desert; when you're done, it's gone. Unless you know right were it is or are very lucky.

Except, NOBDOY thought that Iraq didn't have the WMDs in the first place. They used them, we knew they had them, and they didn't show what happened to the stockpiles. That right there was material breack of UN resolution 1441.

As to why we don't invade other countries that posses WMDs? Foriegn policy is not a cookie cutter; just because something works in one situation doesn't mean it will work in others. North Korea has nukes, and they have missles that can reach key allies, and some intel says parts of the US. Maybe it would be a good idea to demonstrate our resolve on a softer target first.

Don't forget, Lybia has recently come clean about their weapons programs. Do you thing this was out of the goodness of their heart? Or could it be that Quadaffi saw that the US and her allies mean business.

The Bush Docterine is that when dealing with a terrorist threat, we cannot wait for direct action to be taken against us; the cost is just too much. Premtive action must be taken to ensure our protection. Think big picture. If we can get a stable, democratic Iraq it will be a foothold of democracy in a region where that is unherad of. Democracy is like wildfire; wherever it starts, it tends to spread.

This directly attacks the root cause of terrorism. Why do people hate us so?Could it be, that the rich and powerful few in power use that hatred to distract the masses in their country from overthrowing them, and to attacking something else? "Ignore me while I oppress you- in the name of Allah, attack the great Satan, and you will be rewarded! Now I'll go drive one of my 100 Rolls Royces..."

If we can gain a foothold of democracy in the middle east, an Arab democracy, it will be a great step forward in improving the lives of everyone in the middle east, and maybe THEN the can be brought out of the middle ages, and they won't HAVE a need to hate us.
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vafi88
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RE: Ralph Nader Calls For Bush's Impeachment

Sat Apr 10, 2004 1:55 pm

If we can gain a foothold of democracy in the middle east, an Arab democracy, it will be a great step forward in improving the lives of everyone in the middle east, and maybe THEN the can be brought out of the middle ages, and they won't HAVE a need to hate us.

I completely agree, BUT (I hate the buts) The fact of the matter is, is that these people don't want us there, and they won't be able to hold democracy. As soon as we leave, there will be a revolution and it's going to be another guy named Saddam or Akim. Even IF we try to put some sort of a democracy in place, they will have a hard time, and soon enogh, it will fail. I agree on democracy, but I don't think a SINGLE palestine nation can handle that, they're just way too backward.
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Illini_152
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RE: Ralph Nader Calls For Bush's Impeachment

Sat Apr 10, 2004 2:14 pm

I completely agree, BUT (I hate the buts) The fact of the matter is, is that these people don't want us there, and they won't be able to hold democracy. As soon as we leave, there will be a revolution and it's going to be another guy named Saddam or Akim. Even IF we try to put some sort of a democracy in place, they will have a hard time, and soon enogh, it will fail. I agree on democracy, but I don't think a SINGLE palestine nation can handle that, they're just way too backward

Could this be? Some kind of consensus in a non-av threat regarding the middle east?  Smile

I have to ask then, is there a better idea? Listening to reports regarding Iraq, if taken to heart, the recent uprising could very well be a small minority of the country, mixed in with foriegn fighters. This was predicted- remember the memo we captured a few weeks ago from the Al-Quida operative, urging an uprising and civil war in Iraq before the handover? Henry Kissinger made a very good poing last night in an interview, comparing this to the Tet offensive; while in the short term they may win a PR victory what these rebels are now doing, is abandoning their subvursive, guerilla tactics for open warfare. This can be seen as a last-ditch effort to forstall a handover.

We'll see how this experement with Iraqi democracy works after the handover of power.

Though, I must take exception to your last sentence. Looking back a history, the Middle East is very similar to Europe 600 years ago. A feudal system, where the vast majority live in abject poverty, while the privilaged few rule over them with absolute authority, using religion to keep the masses submissive.

All it takes is time; Iraq before Saddam, and even during his reign was a very secular society. This makes it a good canidate to see if a democracy CAN flourish and get a foothold in the middle east.
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vafi88
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RE: Ralph Nader Calls For Bush's Impeachment

Sat Apr 10, 2004 4:31 pm

152 - I mean, How could a civilization that's 100 years behind not only America, but countries on a lower scale, maybe parts of Eastren Europe, catch on with something that has just been introduced and hasn't been profected yet.

It'd almost like building an A380 and just making it enter service AND THEN do the tests and such.
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L.1011
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RE: Ralph Nader Calls For Bush's Impeachment

Sat Apr 10, 2004 11:44 pm

Wow. We have finally found something Americans can unite on. Republicans, Democrats, Blacks, Whites, Hispanics, Christians, Jews, Muslims,

OUR HATRED OF RALPH NADER! The guy is an idiot but I hope he takes votes from Kerry.
 
vafi88
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RE: Ralph Nader Calls For Bush's Impeachment

Sat Apr 10, 2004 11:55 pm

L1011 - At least Nader knows that America is more than just the house of reps, and congress. Bush seems to be focused on politics right now, and NOT the actualy PEOPLE of the United states.

I dislike both.
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Illini_152
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RE: Ralph Nader Calls For Bush's Impeachment

Sat Apr 10, 2004 11:56 pm

I mean, How could a civilization that's 100 years behind not only America, but countries on a lower scale, maybe parts of Eastren Europe, catch on with something that has just been introduced and hasn't been profected yet

Sorry, had to go to bed sometime...

Well, I would say they're closer to 400 years behind, but don't forget-

It took us close to a dozen years to get a stable government here. The Declaration of Independence was signed in 1776. Our Constitution wasn't ratified until 1787. Inbetween we still had to finish kicking the English out (no hard feelings) and then went through the Articles of the Confederation and years of endless debate.

So when people complained that it's taking TOO long for us to handover power in Iraq, I wish they'd just sit back and realize that these things take time. And, if you remember, these same arguments were raised right after the Berlin Wall fell; "how will these Eastern European countries deal with Democracy when all they've known is tyranny?" Looking back at history, I'd say they've faired quite well.

Only history will prove out how the Bush Docterine works in the Middle East and against the War on Terror. It is worth noting though, that at least it seems that these terror groups have concentrated on Iraq themselves; there hasn't been a major terrorist attack here in the states since 9/11 (knocks on wood). The key was to bring the fight to them. They know that if we succeed in bringing democracy to Iraq, there will be a foothold in the middle east, and their influence will begin to diminish.

Just a thought,
Mike
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RE: Ralph Nader Calls For Bush's Impeachment

Sun Apr 11, 2004 12:02 am

Vaf, it took 12 years to attack iraq so i guess it will take that long before we wake up and realise north korea is developing nuclear weapons and musted be stopped. problem is though north korea is a bigger enemy with a bigger army and can invade south korea or hit japan, seems like saddam couldnt hit a barn door with a football let alone another state.
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RE: Ralph Nader Calls For Bush's Impeachment

Sun Apr 11, 2004 12:29 am

I love Ralph. Every vote for Ralph is one step closer for Bush's re-election.

Run Ralph Run!!!!
 
LH423
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RE: Ralph Nader Calls For Bush's Impeachment

Sun Apr 11, 2004 1:24 am

Illini_152: Bush has a 'doctrine'? Who knew?!  Confused  Laugh out loud

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RE: Ralph Nader Calls For Bush's Impeachment

Sun Apr 11, 2004 3:24 am

I'll lay odds that Nader will endorse Kerry in the summer and ask his supporters to vote for Kerry, though he won't drop out entirely. Nader thinks he is a second front to Bush this year and wants bush out as badly as anyone else.


Bush is a flipping idiot, and I don't understand how you guys continue to support him after all he's screwed up these last four years. I mean really, what's your reason? He's "tough on terrorism?"

He would have you believe he's the only one who can fight it! You think John Kerry can't? Even McCain came to the defense of Kerry and said his defense record is not weak.


Do you like bush because he's "not a flip-flopper?"

Oh please. Bush would have you believe Kerry takes both sides of every issue, and in fact, it's working. He has successfully defined Kerry. And it pisses me off that the american sheep buy it without doing their own research. First of all, Kerry is NOT a flip-flopper. Do you realize some of those things he voted against that SEEM contrary to his previous beliefs were actually amendments to a larger bill that he opposed? And the 50 cent gas hike? That was 10 years ago, and kerry regrets the vote. bush has cherrypicked votes over kerry's entire long senate career and tried to paint him as a flip-flopper for having a change of mind on some issues over a 20 year period.

Hello? Have any of you changed your mind on an important issue in the last 4 months alone? Now, can you imagine never changing your mind on anything for 20 years? That's scary. The mere fact that Kerry does change his mind and admit mistakes like anyone else speaks volumes on his character.


But what about Bush? IF we're going to accuse someone of flip-flopping maybe you outta look at your own candidate. First, he said that gay marriage was just a states issue, not a federal one. Then turned around and backed a consitutional amendment to back it, endorsing a permanent writing of discrimination into the constitution. And if you supported that, then you're a bigot. It is very bigoted and concieted to support the permanent labeling and discrimination against gay couples. Isn't there something in our bill of rights about the "pursuit of happiness"? Where the hell did that go?


What about the Iraq war? First it was about WMD, then when there were no WMD, it was about freeing the iraqis. Bush said that there would be equal bidding on iraq reconstruction, instead, Halliburton got the lion's share and thensome and NOW we're finding out Cheney's company is overcharging the government by millions if not more, of taxpayer money. Bush said our troops would be in iraq only long enough to topple the regime of saddam and stabilize the country. That, has dragged out for a year. Over 600 soldiers killed and the death toll continues to rise. A state of anarchy and civil war is brewing over there and yet cheney and rumsfeld get on TV and tell us what a wonderful amount of progress has been made. Oh that was beautiful, the other day, when Cheney was speaking about Iraq progress and on the other side of the screen were smoking cars and people hung from bridges and a general state of chaos. Oh, priceless.


What about bush's promises regarding medicare and social security in 2000? Now lying dead on the floor. This new medicare reform bill isn't worth the paper it was printed on, it does NOTHING to help seniors out. Hello, I live with a senior and the cost of drugs and medical care is so high that she's often wondered if it would just be cheaper to die than continue getting the medicine she needs. Now what kind of message is this government sending to its senior citizens?


What about Bush's united world right after 9/11, and even before 9/11 his promises of reaching out to the world to repair strained ties. (which, BTW, weren't anywhere near as strained as they are now). Now look what he's done, after 9/11 we had the support of the world, for the first time the world seemed united. And instead of embracing it, Bush viewed it as a sign of weakness. Bush basically told the world to fuck off, and let america do things our way. "We don't NEED your help" is the unspoken message he sent to the world. And now look, the world probably hates america and what it stands for more now than at any time in recent history. Even Bush Sr. did a much better job at keeping our ties with other nations relatively healthy, even if he himself was only a little bit better than Jr.

Bush is a flip-flopper of the most extreme degree, and people are dying because of it. Dying at home because they can't afford adequate health care, dying in the streets because instead of funding NCLB he left it twisting in the wind, and underperforming students find themselves with gangs rather than in school, and dying overseas because of Bush's misguided war. The people of Iraq don't want us there, they don't want democracy, they want an islamic state. And no matter how long we drag this out, we are doomed to failure. Don't you see that? Do you even care about the dead and the wounded? Of course you dont, because as the numbers get higher and higher, they become arbitrary, faceless. "I wonder how many people died in iraq today" "oh, 10, that's about normal". We've become very apathetic. To wake up you must listen to the accounts of these soldiers overseas, or read a letter that one of them sent home to Mom days before he was killed by an RPG. Suddenly, they're human, and this war is far more costly.


Condoleeza Rice's testimony did nothing to refute any of the charges made by Richard Clarke. None. Because it's truth. Bush was warned about Al Queda planning to attack the US in 2001, and while they suspected hijackings and bombings they didnt expect that airplanes would crash into buildings, right? OOPS! Wrong, that memo also says Al Queda has cells in the USA, and that they may attempt to crash a plane into an embassy. IT was known before 9/11 that Al Queda was training in flight schools. Granted, we had the severe restriction in that agencies were not allowed to share information. That's one good thing that came out of this mess is that we can share intelligence much better. But the fact is, this government knew something was brewing, and did almost nothing about it. Bush failed this country, and I was one who viewed him as the leader we needed to defeat these terrorists, in the days and even years after 2001. But by early 2003 I was beginning to wake up, and now in 2004 I can see that this country needs nothing greater than the defeat of George Bush.


Look at you gys, you're rallying around a failed president, you're joining the pack in calling dissent unpatriotic, you're believing the crap of "If you criticise the president you are only aiding our enemies".

You know, Hitler's government did that too....denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and say that they are aiding the enemy with their comments. Oh, but there we go, I said the "H" word which means some of you will invalidate my post alltogether. Hmm, how about reading my post in the Howard Stern thread about qualities of fascism and then take a good hard look at our country right now. We ARE heading towards a fascist state and the only thing that can save us is electing John Kerry in November. For all that Bush has screwed up, I can't believe that any of you support him as strongly as you do. Just what, exactly, is your reason?
 
BN747
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RE: Ralph Nader Calls For Bush's Impeachment

Sun Apr 11, 2004 11:26 am

Aloha , the running thread among the hardcore Bush supporters seems to be they are afraid of something. I'm not sure of what exactly..but something has these people on edge.


BN747
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tbar220
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RE: Ralph Nader Calls For Bush's Impeachment

Sun Apr 11, 2004 4:38 pm

When you try and make a logical argument, you need to simply look at the argument and make your points based on that. The fact that Ralph Nader makes these statements should not matter. Logically, I think he has a point about Bush's impeachment.

If Bush knowingly lied to the American public and the rest of the world, he should indeed be impeached, and I would see no reason why even Republicans could back him up on this one.

If Bush was just grossly misinformed, it is still too gross of an error to let pass. 600 American soldiers are dead, nearly 10,000 Iraq civilians are dead, Iraq is on the bring of civil war, the stability of the entire region could collapse, and we've lost nearly all of our friends in the world.

A mistake based on gross misinformation is still a tragic error, and responsibility needs to be placed where it belongs, on the administration that led us into this war on false claims.

And if we were knowingly lied to, then impeachment is a definite option.
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L-188
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RE: Ralph Nader Calls For Bush's Impeachment

Sun Apr 11, 2004 5:09 pm

Tbar220, call me cold hearted but I really don't give a rats ass how many Iraqi's have died.


Clinton clearly broke the law in office and committed a felony. Again I have to repeat again, there is no information that GW did the same.

And that misinformed US intel was being backed up by several international sources, including the intel services of countries that didn't participate in the current war.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
zak
Posts: 1926
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RE: Ralph Nader Calls For Bush's Impeachment

Sun Apr 11, 2004 7:10 pm

"Again I have to repeat again, there is no information that GW did the same."

i honestly can not understand how someone can not understand that EVERYTHING the bush administration does is a felony.
they ignore the bill of rights and constitution on every occasion and lie about why and what they do on every occasion.

how someone can not see that these guys are criminals of the worst kind really escapes me. maybe the white sheets of ashcrofts hood have blinded you, who knows?
10=2
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Ralph Nader Calls For Bush's Impeachment

Sun Apr 11, 2004 7:12 pm

EVERYTHING the bush administration does is a felony

I am forced to just shake my head.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
B747forlife
Posts: 386
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2001 9:36 am

RE: Ralph Nader Calls For Bush's Impeachment

Mon Apr 12, 2004 12:10 am

"i honestly can not understand how someone can not understand that EVERYTHING the bush administration does is a felony.
they ignore the bill of rights and constitution on every occasion and lie about why and what they do on every occasion."

Where are the court cases slapping the Bush administration back? Where is the Supreme Court's decision declaring Bush administration action and Bush backed legislation unconstitutional? Where has A CITIZEN of the US been denied their constitutionally protected rights?

Thats right, no where.

Contrary to popular opinion, the US Constitution does not grant jack to "enemy combatants" who are the only people that I can see being denied certain rights. That I do not agree with, but your diatribe about the Bush administration generally throwing the Bill of Rights out the window is just ludicrious.

If Bush lied, knowingly lied, about Iraq, impeach him and remove him from office. However, until you can prove that to a grand jury or the House of Representatives, Bush has acted in the best interests as he and his advisors have seen fit to protect the United States.

If the information was bad, Bush is not at fault. If he made a mistake, he should appologize, but if all the information given to him and his advisors said, "Iraq is trouble," then the right thing was done.

-Nick
 
airplay
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RE: Ralph Nader Calls For Bush's Impeachment

Mon Apr 12, 2004 12:22 am

If the information was bad, Bush is not at fault. If he made a mistake, he should appologize, but if all the information given to him and his advisors said, "Iraq is trouble," then the right thing was done.

Isn't the president ultimately responsible? Where does the "buck" stop?

Tbar220, call me cold hearted but I really don't give a rats ass how many Iraqi's have died.

Quite a sad statment. I'd be willing to bet that GWB doesn't care either. Are you finally coming to the realization that the US did NOT go to Iraq for humanitarian reasons L.188?

Just more noise from the man that killed the Corvair.

Umm...how is this a bad thing? Wasn't the Corvair a death-trap? Didn't the scrutiny of the Corvair lead to huge improvements in American made cars?

Again, I am not a big fan of Nader overall, but it's hard not to recognize his achievements in consumer protection....

 
BR715-A1-30
Posts: 6525
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 9:30 am

RE: Ralph Nader Calls For Bush's Impeachment

Mon Apr 12, 2004 12:34 am

I agree 100%, George W. Bush should be impeached from office. Dick Cheney is no better though. Mr. Heart Attack Jones needs to go with him and we need to get someone better. They should not let him run for 2004
Puhdiddle
 
tbar220
Posts: 6706
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RE: Ralph Nader Calls For Bush's Impeachment

Mon Apr 12, 2004 6:33 am

If the information was bad, Bush is not at fault. If he made a mistake, he should appologize, but if all the information given to him and his advisors said, "Iraq is trouble," then the right thing was done.

This is where we disagree, I don't think an apology is acceptable, this would be too grave a mistake to just "apologize" for. Too many people are dead, we've lost too many friends around the world, and we don't even know what some of the consequences will be for starting this war. Too many negatives for just an apology.

If in your workplace you make a "mistake", if it is a drastic enough mistake, more often than not you will be fired.
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ushermittwoch
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RE: Ralph Nader Calls For Bush's Impeachment

Mon Apr 12, 2004 6:42 am

I was wondering if it is a worthy ground to impeach a President for violating human rights and breaking the Geneva Conventions. Probalby not, since lying about oral sex is a far greater danger for the entire "Free" World.

Go Guantanamo!
Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
galaxy5
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2000 10:09 pm

RE: Ralph Nader Calls For Bush's Impeachment

Mon Apr 12, 2004 6:44 am

Yeah lets release those terroists to do their bidding like they do in Germany, right.
"damn, I didnt know prince could Ball like that" - Charlie Murphy
 
ushermittwoch
Posts: 2530
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 10:18 pm

RE: Ralph Nader Calls For Bush's Impeachment

Mon Apr 12, 2004 6:49 am

Right Galaxy, they were all caught red handed with box cutters in their shoes...not.
But I guess human rights only apply to US citizens, right?
Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13916
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Ralph Nader Calls For Bush's Impeachment

Mon Apr 12, 2004 7:00 am

Had the US government permitted the German court to interrogated Binshallib, the supect would probably be behind bars, but without EVIDENCE no guilt. We don´t lock people behind bars for years without trial.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
galaxy5
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2000 10:09 pm

RE: Ralph Nader Calls For Bush's Impeachment

Mon Apr 12, 2004 7:01 am

And everyone in gitmo is an innocent victim deprived of their human rights by the Evil empire of America. Right?
"damn, I didnt know prince could Ball like that" - Charlie Murphy
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13916
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Ralph Nader Calls For Bush's Impeachment

Mon Apr 12, 2004 7:06 am

Well, in modern, normal, free democratic countries there is the principle of innocent until proven guilty by a court of justice. Your government just seems to be on the way to abolish the constitution.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
galaxy5
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2000 10:09 pm

RE: Ralph Nader Calls For Bush's Impeachment

Mon Apr 12, 2004 7:12 am

Sorry that only holds true for American citizens, not terrorists of foreign nations taken into custody during combat, dont confuse our constitution and bill of rights with what the UN wants to pass off.
"damn, I didnt know prince could Ball like that" - Charlie Murphy
 
B747forlife
Posts: 386
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2001 9:36 am

RE: Ralph Nader Calls For Bush's Impeachment

Mon Apr 12, 2004 8:33 am

I believe an appology is necessary. However, I really cannot see how Bush can ultimately be to blame for bad intelligence. I don't agree that an intelligence failure is ultimately be the fault of the president. I think, that if these allegations of bad intelligence are true, the best thing we can hope for is a reorganization of how intelligence is gathered and interpreted. To blame the man who relies on this intelligence, I believe, is the wrong thing to do.

Tbar220 - Being president of a country is far different from a normal job. People report to the president using information deemed credible and he made a decision based on that intel. That is majorly different from whatever hypothetical job you're describing.

Airplay - I'm not sure where the "buck" should stop. However, I think that blaming the president is wrong because, in reality, that could set a precedent, much like sending Condi to testify, that could limit correct action. I mean, say you have intelligence that said someone was going to attack the US, but it wasn't 100%. If you decided not to act, to avoid being impeached, and something happened, your ass would be gone. It seems to be a lose/lose situation.

-Nick
 
ushermittwoch
Posts: 2530
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 10:18 pm

RE: Ralph Nader Calls For Bush's Impeachment

Mon Apr 12, 2004 8:51 am

Galaxy5 is the prototype of the "good" American citizen. can see no wrong doing of HIS government, everybody else wants to harm the US and rules only apply to US citizens.
Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
B747forlife
Posts: 386
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2001 9:36 am

RE: Ralph Nader Calls For Bush's Impeachment

Mon Apr 12, 2004 9:34 am

Actually, Ushermittwoch, the US Constitution applies to US citizens, and those detained from US soil. As I said before, "enemy combatants" (aka, those being held at Gitmo) do not qualify as either.

So, in this case, rules do only apply, basically, to US citizens.

-Nick
 
airplay
Posts: 3369
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 1:58 am

RE: Ralph Nader Calls For Bush's Impeachment

Mon Apr 12, 2004 10:49 am

"enemy combatants" (aka, those being held at Gitmo) do not qualify as either.

Of course not. That's why they are being held there. GWB can treat them like sh*t and not be accountable...
 
JAL777
Posts: 2453
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RE: Ralph Nader Calls For Bush's Impeachment

Mon Apr 12, 2004 10:53 am

not be accountable...

accountable to whom?
 
BN747
Posts: 5344
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RE: Ralph Nader Calls For Bush's Impeachment

Mon Apr 12, 2004 11:20 am

Galaxy5 is the prototype of the "good" American citizen. can see no wrong doing of HIS government, everybody else wants to harm the US and rules only apply to US citizens.

Ushermittwoch..I think L-188 trumps Galaxy5 at being a 'good-er (Bush speak) American citizen.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
airplay
Posts: 3369
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 1:58 am

RE: Ralph Nader Calls For Bush's Impeachment

Tue Apr 13, 2004 12:23 am

accountable to whom?

To the people who placed him in power. Don't you expect that from your president?

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