prosa
Posts: 5389
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2001 3:24 am

European Muslims - How Bad Is It?

Mon Apr 26, 2004 11:24 pm

An article in today's New York Times about the rise of ultra-radicalism among some Muslims living in Europe (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/26/international/europe/26EURO.html?hp) is just the latest in along series of negative news reports about this group. To go by reports in the American media, one would conclude the Muslims in France, Germany, Britain and others places are overwhelmingly poor, largely confined to inner-city ghettos or bleak suburban housing projects, totally incapable of assimilation into society, and growing more and more fundamentalist with each generation.
Are these media reports largely accurate or mostly exaggerated? Americans have difficulty understanding Muslims, perhaps because we fear them, so it's not hard to imagine that the U.S. news media can be inaccurate in its reporting on this subject. Hopefully some European a-netters can offer a different perspective.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
Alessandro
Posts: 4962
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 3:13 am

RE: European Muslims - How Bad Is It?

Mon Apr 26, 2004 11:35 pm

Depends on which ethnic group, the Turks seem to do well in many European
countries, the Libanese as well, Pakistanis seem also to do well. Problem is the large groups of Iranians, Iraqis,
Somalis and Algerians have a hard time in many European countries.
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
racko
Posts: 4548
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 12:06 am

RE: European Muslims - How Bad Is It?

Tue Apr 27, 2004 12:20 am

For Germany it is true, they largely failed to integrate into the society. Of course there are also good examples, but generally speaking, they are poor, they don't speak the language very well, do bad in school and live in "Ghettos".
 
keno
Posts: 1809
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 5:46 pm

RE: European Muslims - How Bad Is It?

Tue Apr 27, 2004 12:43 am

Americans have difficulty understanding Muslims, perhaps because we fear them

Sorry to hear that Americans feel that way, I can understand why with what has happened during 9/11 and the media isn't helping at all. Maybe you should get to know them personally rather than learning from the media. Sadly bad apples can be found in all communities.
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13916
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: European Muslims - How Bad Is It?

Tue Apr 27, 2004 1:07 am

Those Muslims, who attract the negative attention are those who don´t (want?) to fit themselves into the local society and who are being notice for dressing themselves differently or acting differently than the mainstream. There are plenty of Muslims from different countries in Germany, whom you just don´t notice, because they´ve integrated themselves, like e.g. my Turkish supervisor (who BTW gets along very well with our Greek station manager). Of course it are mostly the uneducated people, who withdraw themselves into their respective ghetto.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
tbar220
Posts: 6706
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 12:08 pm

RE: European Muslims - How Bad Is It?

Tue Apr 27, 2004 1:11 am

I will say I don't know what its like in Europe, but it appears that here in the United States that Muslim immigrants have integrated themselves well into society. There are neighboorhoods of course for certain groups, but I still feel that they are well integrated into society.

I will also venture to say that Americans as a whole are not fearful of Muslims in our country, but are more "watchful" of the radical ones abroad that are stirring up the trouble. I don't like the image that we are a fearful and ignorant people, because I don't think its true.
NO URLS in signature
 
ryanb741
Posts: 5058
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 6:36 pm

RE: European Muslims - How Bad Is It?

Tue Apr 27, 2004 1:47 am

Depends. In the UK, Iraqis, Pakistanis and Iranians are generally well educated and many are doctors and pharmacists etc. The Bangladeshis and lower-class Pakistanis however don't tend to fare so well with the exception of the more enterprising Bangladeshis who run about 95% of the Indian restaurants in the UK.

The Somalis are among the most stupid people you could ever hope to meet - they just tend to piss about all day in Somali cafes and have loads of babies - many Muslim friends of mine regard the Somalis as a laughing stock in Islamic circles. The Afghans tend to drive minicabs or open convenience stores.
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
Leezyjet
Posts: 3542
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2001 7:26 am

RE: European Muslims - How Bad Is It?

Tue Apr 27, 2004 2:15 am

From what I've seen in areas such as Bradford and Slough, many of them don't seem interested in integrating in the mainstream society, and prefer to live in semi isolation from the rest of the population in their own communities and many still only speak their own languages and cannot speak English.

They are even trying to get the government to fund them to have their own dedicated Muslim Only schools. In Bradford for example they even run trips between the Muslim only schools and regular schools as some of the Muslim children have never even seen or spoken to white children !!!.

This I think also helps the more radical groups as they can move freely amongst their own communities without raising suspision from anyone and helps them to get new recruits to fight for their causes.

I think if they made more of an effort to integrate themselves like the hindus and seikhs have then there would be less hatred directed towards them from white people and maybe everyone would benefit from a better understanding of each others cultures.

I think the thing that p!$$es most white people of though is that they come over here and then expect everyone to let them live like they want and do what they want to do whilst constantly playing the race card when they don't get their own way and with a total disregard and disinterest in how we live and do things in this country.

Where I live for example there is a Mosque just down the road, it's next to a dual carridgeway with double yellow lines all the way down but every Friday afternoon there are loads of cars parked all over the pavements and along the double yellow lines, but the council and the Police do nothing about it, where as they went and ticketed and towed away peoples cars when they were illegally parked outside a church !!!!.

(Obviously there are exceptions to this but thats how a majority of the muslim population live)

 Smile


"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: European Muslims - How Bad Is It?

Tue Apr 27, 2004 9:07 am

One of the huge problems in France is immigrants refusal/inability to assimilate. There are parts of Paris where you hear more Arabic than French, and I don't think the French government and society is too crazy about this. Hence the headscarf ban and their general attitude towards immigrants. France also has a large problem with Arab immigrants attacking Jews, but that is another story.

As far as I know, the Pakistani population in England is probably the most assimilated/well off of the large immigrant groups in Europe. Germany has a huge Turkish population and that has led to some tension but the situation is ok overall. France is still having a lot of problems though.

It's ironic. In the 1960s and 70s, the European governments criticized the US over the treatment of African Americans. Now France is being soooooooooo moralistic with their treatment towards minorities!
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
yak42
Posts: 665
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2000 6:17 am

RE: European Muslims - How Bad Is It?

Wed Apr 28, 2004 11:15 am

You should know that Islam is not an un-european religion. Some European countries are traditionally and predominantly moslem like Albania, Bosnia, european Turkey, Kosovo(will be a country Im sure) and southern former soviet countries. Also large swathes of southern Europe were part of the islamic Ottoman empire which left behind muslim minorities in some countries and the iberian peninsula(Spain and Portugal) was ruled by the islamic Moors. So you should remember that Islam is not just an immigrant's religion in Europe it is also an indiginous religion in some places too.

[Edited 2004-04-28 04:19:09]
 
MD-90
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: European Muslims - How Bad Is It?

Wed Apr 28, 2004 11:53 am

Americans don't fear Muslims. Geez...
 
sevenair
Posts: 1564
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2001 7:18 am

RE: European Muslims - How Bad Is It?

Wed Apr 28, 2004 8:44 pm

yeah-it must be awful to be able to preach hatred and get away with it-well they do here in the UK-if i stood ona a street and told people to kill british people (despite the fact tht i live there) then I would be arrested. People like Hamza get away with encouraging evil-must be a tough life.
 
QIguy24
Posts: 2744
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 1:13 am

RE: European Muslims - How Bad Is It?

Wed Apr 28, 2004 8:49 pm

Sevenair,

That's like Hiz but Tahrir or how ever they pronounce their name.. They preached hatred against jews in Denmark and got away with it. It's terrible that they can be allowed to make speeches like that in OUR countries where they came to because they wanted "help".

Edit: I just remembered about the Imam that recently got thrown out of france because he preached that it's ok to beat the shit out of women. I think that is great. But I'm just afraid that he will do the same thing when he returns to his native country.

[Edited 2004-04-28 13:52:04]
 
qr332
Posts: 2592
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:16 pm

RE: European Muslims - How Bad Is It?

Wed Apr 28, 2004 9:27 pm

I'm also happy that they threw that man out, Qlguy24! It is very sad how some men abuse woman, and how they find woman inferior to them.

I personally disagree with forcing the removal ofthe headscarf, it is something that many Muslims see as necessary to be worn, and I don't see how removing it helps with anything. I believe that they should be allowed to wear the headscarf, and not be attacked for it. Also, to clarify my place on these things, I disagree with the removal of that Christian cross from the classroom in Italy, Italy is tradionally Catholic and they should be able to hang that up in a classroom.
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
QIguy24
Posts: 2744
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 1:13 am

RE: European Muslims - How Bad Is It?

Wed Apr 28, 2004 9:31 pm

QR332,

I agree with you on that headscarf case. But on the other hand, when we visit arabian countries our women are forced to wear headscarf even though they don't like it. And I can't se how that can hurt the country we visit..
 
qr332
Posts: 2592
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:16 pm

RE: European Muslims - How Bad Is It?

Wed Apr 28, 2004 9:39 pm

Qlguy24,
Only country that forces it is Saudi, and I think Iran, so its not all, just these two extremes. Most of the woman in my own family dont wear a headscarf, so its a very big generalization that all Muslims wear it.
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: aerlingus747, Dreadnought, JJJ, MileHighClubber, salttee, seahawk and 24 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos