MD-90
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The A C L U Revisionists Are Modern Carpetbaggers

Thu Apr 29, 2004 2:07 am

http://www.lewrockwell.com/jarvis/jarvis64.html

An example quoted from the article:

Imagine that you are a painting contractor whose company has fallen on hard times. In fact, if you don’t get a new job soon, you may go out of business. So you concoct a brazen scheme to save your company. You travel to a nearby city and arrange a meeting with the Mayor and council. You inform them that a member of their community, Mary Smith, objects to the color of the courthouse. Therefore the courthouse must be repainted the color Ms. Smith desires. You insist that your company be hired to do the painting.

City officials refuse, claiming that the current color has been used for over a hundred years and is still the preferred one by the vast majority of citizens. But you stand firm. You adamantly state that you don’t care what the majority of the community wants, the courthouse must be repainted. At this point, the Sheriff escorts you from the council chambers.

The next day you bring your crew to the courthouse and unload your paints, brushes, canvasses and ladders. You repaint the courthouse the color favored by Ms. Smith and present the city with an exorbitant bill for your services. Obviously, they refuse to pay it. So you ask the courts to decide the matter. The state courts reject your claim so you take it to the federal district court. Incredibly, the federal court rules in your favor and the city is forced to pay you for a service that its citizens were firmly opposed to.


And note that you don't have to pay federal or state income taxes on the money you extort.

That exact scenario played out in Alabama recently. It failed in state court (of course), but the ACLU got it removed to federal court. Not only did they win, but they were awarded money. Others jumped in on the free money (to them, certainly not to Alabama taxpayers) bandwagon

American Civil Liberties Union - awarded $175,000 in legal fees
Americans United for Separation of Church and State - $190,000
Southern Poverty Law Center - $135,00

Thank the good Lord that no other "altruistic" organizations acting in Americans' best interests joined in.

Alabama is not the only state to be affected.

Kentucky - $121,500 for its Ten Commandments display to the ACLU
A Tennessee county - $50,000 for an identical "offense"

ACLU is also pursuing lawsuits against the Ten Commandments in six other states.

The ACLU really hit the jackpot, however, in a Boy Scouts case. The Boy Scouts have been using San Diego's Balboa Park for a summer camp since 1915. 1915! But, of course, since the Boy Scouts don't accept gay scoutmasters or atheists who will not recite the oath with the words "to do my duty to God and my country," in it, well, they gotta go, right? 80 plus years of history notwithstanding.

The ACLU won $790,000 in legal fees on top of $160,000 in court costs. Paid for by the taxpayers (average janes and joes) of San Diego, of course. Because the Boy Scouts are a religious organization, you see. And in these days, that's simply unacceptable.



The ACLU has done some very good things in the past, but the modern ACLU disgusts me.
 
Greg
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RE: The A C L U Revisionists Are Modern Carpetbaggers

Thu Apr 29, 2004 2:47 am

There are not going anywhere--so get used to it!
And they do a tremendous amount of progressive work (The ACLU).
I support them and their efforts, wholeheartedly--if not on a case by case basis.
You appear to have a issue with them in several posts. I'll assume you have at some time had a bad experience with lawyers or a lawsuit.

No offense, but I usually discount sources such as these since they are right wing ramblings....
 
North County
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RE: The A C L U Revisionists Are Modern Carpetbaggers

Thu Apr 29, 2004 3:18 am



The people of City of San Diego love the ACLU (NOT)

The City caved to the ACLU because of the potential legal costs involved.

Similar to Tony threatening to break your legs....

That is something to be proud of....



 
cfalk
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RE: The A C L U Revisionists Are Modern Carpetbaggers

Thu Apr 29, 2004 3:32 am

Greg, it's simply a case of common decency. Why should the taxpayers reimburse the legal fees of an organization which voluntarily entered into a lawsuit of its own volition? If a defendant wins the case, the plaintiff should pay the defendant's legal bills - logical as it was the plaintiff's idea to go to court in the first place. The plaintiff should pay any legal fees out of his own pocket, or out of the winnings if there are monetary awards. In the case of the ACLU, they have plenty of funds available.

All this makes perfect sense, and would reduce the backlog of idiotic cases from people trying to use the justice system as a high-stakes lottery.

But of course, as long as Congress is controlled mostly by lawyers, that will never happen.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
DC10GUY
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RE: The A C L U Revisionists Are Modern Carpetbaggers

Thu Apr 29, 2004 8:51 am

Wonder if a bunch of people lets call them "Christians" got together and tried to find a way to put religion on all the media outlets. What would they do ??? Put the ten commandments in the court house ??? That sure will stir up some shit. Poor Christians .....
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
Goose
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RE: The A C L U Revisionists Are Modern Carpetbaggers

Thu Apr 29, 2004 9:17 am



That's good stuff....
"Talk to me, Goose..."
 
Superfly
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RE: The A C L U Revisionists Are Modern Carpetbaggers

Thu Apr 29, 2004 10:18 am

Still bitter about losing the Civil War ay?  Yeah sure

Dem gawd damn union soldierz!  Acting devilish
Bring back the Concorde
 
tbar220
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RE: The A C L U Revisionists Are Modern Carpetbaggers

Thu Apr 29, 2004 10:38 am

Goose,

All your posts just seem to be images from the same website. Why don't you try and post somethign original with some thought that you've put into it.
NO URLS in signature
 
Goose
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RE: The A C L U Revisionists Are Modern Carpetbaggers

Thu Apr 29, 2004 10:52 am

All your posts just seem to be images from the same website. Why don't you try and post somethign original with some thought that you've put into it.

All of my posts?

.... All 1100 of them?  Big grin

I simply post those images because they're appropriate to the thread in which I post them. They also reflect my opinions rather well - or sometimes don't. And they're pretty clever and thought-provoking, if I can say so.

But, alas, if you don't like them, may I suggest the scroll bar to the right?  Smile
"Talk to me, Goose..."
 
MD-90
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RE: The A C L U Revisionists Are Modern Carpetbaggers

Thu Apr 29, 2004 11:22 am

And they do a tremendous amount of progressive work (The ACLU).

Oh, I totally agree. Progessive = liberal, of course.

No offense, but I usually discount sources such as these since they are right wing ramblings....

LMAO, he'd be pretty offended. Lew Rockwell runs a very LIBERTARIAN website. It's not conservative.


Alabama hardly has the money to waste on such opportunistic vultures such as the ACLU, SLPC, and that AUSCS group.

Of course the ACLU originally lost in state court. THE PEOPLE OF ALABAMA HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THE TEN COMMANDMENTS!

[Edited 2004-04-29 04:38:25]
 
DC10GUY
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RE: The A C L U Revisionists Are Modern Carpetbaggers

Thu Apr 29, 2004 11:35 am

Where it not for the ACLU the born agains would be burning witches and keeping slaves .....
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
L-188
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RE: The A C L U Revisionists Are Modern Carpetbaggers

Thu Apr 29, 2004 11:51 am

Where it not for the ACLU the born agains would be burning witches and keeping slaves .....

Spoken like a true member of NAMBLA.



MD-90, Progessive is the new code word for the left wing. Apparently they think Liberal has too much of a negative reputation. Sounds like they are trying to run from their true selves in my opinion.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
MD-90
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RE: The A C L U Revisionists Are Modern Carpetbaggers

Thu Apr 29, 2004 11:52 am



Unless you're a Christian.

From the ACLU's faq:
Why does the ACLU want to remove crosses from federal cemeteries?
The ACLU is not pursuing, nor has it ever pursued, the removal of religious symbols from personal gravestones. Personal gravestones are the choice of the family members, not the choice of the government. The ACLU celebrates this freedom to choose the religious symbol of your choice. Read more about the ACLU's stance on religious freedom.


Maybe the ACLU will finally be put in their place when the do go after "religious" coughCHRISTIANcough symbols in federal cemetaries. It's federal property, just like a courthouse, and the cross is as Christian a symbol as the Ten Commandments are. It's federal property, that's all the ground they need for a lawsuit.


Regarding the Boy Scout lawsuit - from the ACLU's website
http://www.aclu.org/LesbianGayRights/LesbianGayRights.cfm?ID=15481&c=100

"Today’s decision affirms the fundamental principle that government may not favor a discriminatory religious organization," said Jordan Budd, Legal Director of the ACLU of San Diego and Imperial Counties. "When government endorses a particular religious viewpoint, as the city plainly has done through its preferential treatment of the Boy Scouts, it undermines the values of tolerance and inclusiveness that are at the core of our constitutional system."

and

"For four years our clients stood up to the city and to the Scouts because public parks should never be used for discrimination," said Mark Danis, a partner with Morrison and Foerster. "Judge Jones correctly found that the city violated the separation of church and state by anointing a religious organization to lease Fiesta Island to the exclusion of all others."

as well as

The lawsuit was filed on behalf of two San Diego families, the Breens and the Barnes-Wallaces. The Breens are agnostics who are unsure of the existence of God and who do not participate in organized religion. They have a son, Maxwell, who is nine years old.

The Barnes-Wallaces are a same-sex couple with a 10-year-old son, Mitchell. Both families are avid users of Balboa Park, except the portion of the park under Boy Scout control. Their sons would like to be Scouts, but cannot join. Max Breen would be unable to take the Boy Scout oath, which avows a reverence for God. Mitchell Barnes-Wallace cannot join because his parents are lesbians, whom the Scouts do not consider "morally clean."



It's such a shame that they just couldn't stand the fact that the Scouts have been allowed to use a PORTION of the park since NINETEEN FIFTEEN!! I have a feeling that it's not Maxwell and Mitchell that are the problem, it's their parents who want to lash out at the Scouts.

The Boy Scouts of America has certainly done more for this nation than the ACLU ever has.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: The A C L U Revisionists Are Modern Carpetbaggers

Thu Apr 29, 2004 11:55 am

Still bitter about losing the Civil War ay?

They still deny why it was fought, Superfly. Thanks for the opening, because I'm working on just that topic, and shall make a thread about it in the near future.  Big thumbs up

MD-90, Progessive is the new code word for the left wing.

And facsist is the new code word for the right wing.
 
L-188
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RE: The A C L U Revisionists Are Modern Carpetbaggers

Thu Apr 29, 2004 11:58 am

The difference is that the Liberals chose Progressive to make their side appear less offensive.

However the left has chosen to attempt to label the right as Fascist to make the right seem more offensive then it actually is.
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MD-90
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RE: The A C L U Revisionists Are Modern Carpetbaggers

Thu Apr 29, 2004 12:06 pm

Um, Alpha 1, I hear the word progressive all over the news to describe liberals, because they know what a bad connotation that average American has with the word.

Only nuts use the word fascist to describe conservatives.



And of course, the ACLU doesn't mention on their website how much money they extorted out of Alabama.


And the ACLU on NAMBLA.
Why did the ACLU defend NAMBLA?
In representing NAMBLA, the ACLU does not advocate sexual relationships between adults and children. What we do advocate is robust freedom of speech. This lawsuit strikes at the heart of freedom of speech. The defense of freedom of speech is most critical when the message is one most people find repulsive.


In other words, they defended NAMBLA.
 
Goose
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RE: The A C L U Revisionists Are Modern Carpetbaggers

Thu Apr 29, 2004 12:09 pm

And facsist is the new code word for the right wing.

Ever met a real, self-confessed Fascist?

And let's not be confused about the definitions of what makes a Fascist.... since most people falsely associate Fascism with Nazism and Adolf Hitler; ignorant, uneducated, racist. Most Fascists I know are actually very tolerant of people of differing ethnic origins.... and don't see racism as a necessary component of their political views. Most of those I've met are very highly educated, as well.

That's more than one can say of the apparent Leftist hatred of all things Jewish, as they are associated immediately with Israel.... but that's another discussion altogether.
"Talk to me, Goose..."
 
DC10GUY
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RE: The A C L U Revisionists Are Modern Carpetbaggers

Thu Apr 29, 2004 12:16 pm

Not much difference between NAMBLA and born again republicans..... The ACLU will defend both.
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
Alpha 1
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RE: The A C L U Revisionists Are Modern Carpetbaggers

Thu Apr 29, 2004 12:22 pm

Um, Alpha 1, I hear the word progressive all over the news to describe liberals, because they know what a bad connotation that average American has with the word.

Well, since conservatives perverted the word "liberal" to the point that no one really knows what it means anymore, I don't blame liberals for doing that. Conservatives are good, I'll give them this, at twisting words and the truth to fit things that aren't the truth. They're experts at that, no doubt.
 
MD-90
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RE: The A C L U Revisionists Are Modern Carpetbaggers

Thu Apr 29, 2004 12:23 pm

Dc10guy, you're not adding anything constructive to this thread.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: The A C L U Revisionists Are Modern Carpetbaggers

Thu Apr 29, 2004 12:26 pm

Dc10guy, you're not adding anything constructive to this thread.

That's his forte, MD-90. Trust me.
 
Greg
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RE: The A C L U Revisionists Are Modern Carpetbaggers

Thu Apr 29, 2004 12:27 pm

Actually, MD-90..you brought up a very good point.
I haven't made my annual contribution to the ACLU!
I'll do now...why you're so vehemently reminding me why it's necessary!
Thanks.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: The A C L U Revisionists Are Modern Carpetbaggers

Thu Apr 29, 2004 12:29 pm

Unfortunately, our right-wing friends don't recoginze the benfits of the ACLU, even if they can piss off nearly everyone at one time or another.

Without such a group, all our right-wing friends would be walking in goose-step, singing the American version of "Duetchland Uber Alles".
 
DC10GUY
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RE: The A C L U Revisionists Are Modern Carpetbaggers

Thu Apr 29, 2004 12:38 pm

Nambla, Born agains, the ACLU will defend them. Freedom is for everyone ...Sorry dude.
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
Goose
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RE: The A C L U Revisionists Are Modern Carpetbaggers

Thu Apr 29, 2004 12:41 pm

Without such a group, all our right-wing friends would be walking in goose-step, singing the American version of "Duetchland Uber Alles".

Goose-stepping is harder than it looks, and that's a great song.....  Big grin

Interesting, though, that you seem eager to paint everyone more "right-wing" of yourself as little more than a mindless Hitler Jugend recruits or Schutzstaffel troopers, with little will or thought of their own.

I'm guessing you never even attempt to listen to what they might have to say and keep an open mind - what Liberals, Progessives, or Leftists (pick one) tout as their best attribute - and instead discredit and dismiss them wholesale, because of your own bigotry, right?

[Edited 2004-04-29 05:42:23]
"Talk to me, Goose..."
 
Alpha 1
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RE: The A C L U Revisionists Are Modern Carpetbaggers

Thu Apr 29, 2004 12:45 pm

Bigotry? ROTFL. Cynicism, perhaps, but not bigotry, Goose.

Extremes on both ends are a danger to freedom and liberty. But having said that, I think this country is much more in danger of extremism to the right. This country has NEVER accepted a far left philosophy. But if you have any shred of objectivity, watching the last several years since 9/11, you'll clearly see that we'd follow a right-wing extremism in a heartbeat.

Hence, my comment about goose-stepping, and seig heiling.
 
L-188
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RE: The A C L U Revisionists Are Modern Carpetbaggers

Thu Apr 29, 2004 12:47 pm

our right-wing friends don't recoginze the benfits of the ACLU

No, Alpha1, not true.

I appreciate the irony of the Florida ACLU filing a freind of the court brief support Rush Linbaugh's position regarding medical record privacy.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
MD-90
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RE: The A C L U Revisionists Are Modern Carpetbaggers

Thu Apr 29, 2004 1:11 pm

L-188, I thought that was pretty ironic, myself.

This country has NEVER accepted a far left philosophy.

Country as a whole, no. There's all those red counties in the interior. Now California, the Northeast, actually the coasts in general, the elite academic institutions...mmm... Actually, the elites in general, from celebrities in Hollywood to the multimillionaire who owns the New York Times, tend to be liberal.
 
DC10GUY
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RE: The A C L U Revisionists Are Modern Carpetbaggers

Thu Apr 29, 2004 1:20 pm

MD-90, I'd say they tend to be more "free thinkers" which is a liberal thing. The democrat party is the party of progress... I think it was Truman that started that saying. And I sure am proud to be one !!!
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
777236ER
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RE: The A C L U Revisionists Are Modern Carpetbaggers

Thu Apr 29, 2004 8:51 pm

Country as a whole, no. There's all those red counties in the interior. Now California, the Northeast, actually the coasts in general, the elite academic institutions...mmm... Actually, the elites in general, from celebrities in Hollywood to the multimillionaire who owns the New York Times, tend to be liberal.

So what you're saying is, those that aren't liberal are the poor uneducated people in the middle of the US?
Your bone's got a little machine
 
MD-90
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RE: The A C L U Revisionists Are Modern Carpetbaggers

Fri Apr 30, 2004 3:06 am

777236ER, I'm not going to dignify that with a response.
 
777236ER
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RE: The A C L U Revisionists Are Modern Carpetbaggers

Sat May 01, 2004 12:06 am

Strange, that appears to me to be a response.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
L-188
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RE: The A C L U Revisionists Are Modern Carpetbaggers

Sat May 01, 2004 11:14 am

The democrat party is the party of progress

ROTFLMAO



Here is a better slogan......The democratic party....stealing from the poor for the poorer.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: The A C L U Revisionists Are Modern Carpetbaggers

Sat May 01, 2004 11:17 am

L-188, you stole my smiley face. You conservative carpet-bagger you.

And for the GOP, their slogan could be: we never met a war we didn't like.
 
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Aaron747
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RE: The A C L U Revisionists Are Modern Carpetbaggers

Sat May 01, 2004 11:26 am

As a libertarian in societal matters, I fully support the ACLU's mission goals and principles. Somebody has to protect us from those that seek to limit the protections the Constitution provides to ensure we are free to choose, speak, and express what we wish.

This isn't to say the ACLU on occasion takes cases that fall outside their stated goals, but no organization has a sacrosanct record in this regard.

If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
L-188
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RE: The A C L U Revisionists Are Modern Carpetbaggers

Sat May 01, 2004 11:42 am

Somebody has to protect us from those that seek to limit the protections the Constitution

And yet when Clinton was charging on the 2nd amendment, you didn't hear a peep out of the ACLU.

Face it, they pick and choose their battles, with a left wing bias.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
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Aaron747
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RE: The A C L U Revisionists Are Modern Carpetbaggers

Sat May 01, 2004 11:47 am

I don't know what ACLU you've been following - face it, the only people who were going to challenge an assault weapons ban were those representing the gun industry. What would there be to sue for anyhow? Courts have already upheld that banning assault weapons is in the interest of public safety and welfare.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Alpha 1
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RE: The A C L U Revisionists Are Modern Carpetbaggers

Sat May 01, 2004 11:47 am

Maybe that's because, L-188, a zillions guns on the street, so gun nuts like yourself feel like a man, are a threat to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness".
 
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Aaron747
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RE: The A C L U Revisionists Are Modern Carpetbaggers

Sat May 01, 2004 11:51 am

That's a wasted comment Alpha, seriously. Could you be more partisan?

For the record, I fully expect that should the right to bear arms be gravely challenged by any left wing wackos , the ACLU will come to my aid - just as they're standing up against these so-called freedom loving conservatives who want to tell us what's okay in the bedroom or who we can legally marry. Or worse yet, the issue that seems to have bipartisan support - deciding for us which television or music is morally suitable for public consumption.

[Edited 2004-05-01 04:52:47]
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Alpha 1
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RE: The A C L U Revisionists Are Modern Carpetbaggers

Sat May 01, 2004 11:57 am

Could you be more partisan?

On that issue, I meant to be, because I abhore firearms, and do not understand this love affair that so many Americans have with the infernal things. We'd be better off without them.

On THAT score, I am unabashedly liberal.  Smile
 
L-188
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RE: The A C L U Revisionists Are Modern Carpetbaggers

Sat May 01, 2004 3:31 pm

Alpha1, I appreciate the fact that you have never had to use that particular tool in you life.

Fine.

Don't prohibit me from having the tools I need.

And I noticed that you didn't dispute that the ACLU picks and chooses what rights they want to defend.

[Edited 2004-05-01 08:34:04]
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MD-90
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RE: The A C L U Revisionists Are Modern Carpetbaggers

Sun May 02, 2004 8:29 am

In other words, guns frighten Alpha 1.

Which I'm sure is the case for a lot of people. Especially if you don't see them and at least handle them a few times when you're growing up.
 
rev3oh2
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RE: The A C L U Revisionists Are Modern Carpetbaggers

Sun May 02, 2004 8:43 am

Where it not for the ACLU the born agains would be burning witches and keeping slaves .....

I see anti-Christian bigotry is alive and well.

Do a little reading about the involvement of Christians in the abolition movement.

Incidentally, it was Jesus who said "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."

As far as I can tell, Jesus did not advocate witch-burning or slavery.
...let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us.
 
Goose
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RE: The A C L U Revisionists Are Modern Carpetbaggers

Sun May 02, 2004 8:49 am

Which I'm sure is the case for a lot of people. Especially if you don't see them and at least handle them a few times when you're growing up.

I don't think that's the largest part of the reason why guns frighten some folks. It's due in large part because those folks receive most or all of their knowledge of firearms from the media. They know little about how one is used or what they are used for outside of what the TV or newspaper tells them.... and most of that is about crimes reported on the news, involving guns.

And, there have been a few cases of anti-gun media outlets and particular reporters using misinformation and sometimes outright deception to show firearms in a disproportionately frightening or dangerous light......
"Talk to me, Goose..."
 
MD-90
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RE: The A C L U Revisionists Are Modern Carpetbaggers

Mon May 03, 2004 10:21 am

That's also true. When's the last time you heard anything good about guns reducing crime on TV or in the New York Times?
 
Alpha 1
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RE: The A C L U Revisionists Are Modern Carpetbaggers

Mon May 03, 2004 10:39 am

I don't think that's the largest part of the reason why guns frighten some folks. It's due in large part because those folks receive most or all of their knowledge of firearms from the media.

When in doubt, blame the media. I don't like guns, because I think there's a higher risk of an accident happening with one-shooting a friend/spouse/relative in an argument, or a child getting a hold of one, and shooting themselves, than there is me EVER needing one for self defense.

I'm 43 years old, and not once have I EVER been in a situation that would require a wepon. Never. And I doubt I ever will be. The risks, for most people, of accidental shootings are higher, in my view, than it is for them EVER to need on for defense.

When's the last time you heard anything good about guns reducing crime on TV or in the New York Times?

Not lately. But, gee, maybe that's because it doesn't happen all that often. One of the phoniest lines the NRA and gun nuts use is how people need it for self-defense, when most people will never need it.

One of my great motto's, as quoted by a great American, Capt. Benjamin Franklin Pierce:

I will not carry a gun, Frank. When I got into this war I had a very clear understanding with the Pentagon. No guns. I'll carry your books, I'll carry a torch, I'll carry a tune, I'll carry on, carry over, carry forward, Cary Grant, cash and carry, carry me back to old Virginie, I'll even hari-kari if you show me how, but I will not carry a gun!
 
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Aaron747
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RE: The A C L U Revisionists Are Modern Carpetbaggers

Mon May 03, 2004 11:44 am

Getting sidetracked - AT ANY RATE, if self-righteous liberals and conservatives (ya'll know who you are) weren't obsessed with trying to legislate every little aspect of our decisionmaking lives, we wouldn't need the ACLU.
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