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NZ1
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Bush Vs Kerry

Sat May 01, 2004 4:27 pm

What are peoples opinions on who will win the presidential election?
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NZ1
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Bush Vs Kerry

Sat May 01, 2004 6:00 pm

probably (and hopefully) Bush
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Aloha717200
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RE: Bush Vs Kerry

Sat May 01, 2004 7:03 pm

Hopefully Kerry will win, I dread another four years of Bush.

Unfortunately the odds are greatly against the democrats. From a realistic standpoint, I'd say Bush will win, but we sure as heck should fight to avert that outcome. We have a chance, we better not blow it.


 
sushka
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RE: Bush Vs Kerry

Sat May 01, 2004 9:49 pm

Man I hope Bush wins. I signed up for an absent vote so I can vote for him in November.
Pershoyu Spravoyu Litaki!
 
Phaeton
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RE: Bush Vs Kerry

Sat May 01, 2004 10:05 pm

Everybody I've met here in Germany thinks that it's obvious that Kerry will win on November 2nd. They just couldn't imagine anybody who supports Bush (and for what reason). Same goes for me. Realistically however I think Bush will still win. What a shame.

Thomas
"History will be kind to me for I intend to write it.", Winston Churchill
 
ushermittwoch
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RE: Bush Vs Kerry

Sat May 01, 2004 10:40 pm

I am sure that Jeb will find a way to ban some blacks from voting legally again and then the Supreme Court can let "democracy" reign supreme once more...
Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
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JeffM
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RE: Bush Vs Kerry

Sat May 01, 2004 11:00 pm

That's it! Thanks Usher..... brilliant!

Maybe he can try and get all the prisoners to vote like Gore? 'Ya think?
 
zak
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RE: Bush Vs Kerry

Sat May 01, 2004 11:13 pm

"Maybe he can try and get all the prisoners to vote like Gore? 'Ya think?"

why should prisoners not vote?

citizen rights removal(right to vote is a very important citizen right) should only apply to the most severe criminals like mass murders and rapists. if someone stole a car and sits in jail for it, i see no reason why they should not vote.
10=2
 
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JeffM
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RE: Bush Vs Kerry

Sat May 01, 2004 11:18 pm

You loose certain rights when in prison Zak, I did not say "Jail", and yes, there is a difference.
 
Bofredrik
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RE: Bush Vs Kerry

Sat May 01, 2004 11:22 pm

I would say that a majority of people in western Europe will see Kerry as the next president. But the people in the eastern Europe incl the Baltic states is more in favour of Bush. I think that you all know why...
 
cptkrell
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RE: Bush Vs Kerry

Sun May 02, 2004 12:00 am

I will probably vote for Bush, although this is the first election in memory that I am now considering not voting. Yes, I know if I choose not to, I effectively lose my "right" to bitch about what I don't agree with or make suggestions, but I simply cannot recall ever being so aggravated and tired with politics. Differences of opinion are healthy, but this time around the near total polarization seems to have erased most forms of any constructive party agenda. Regards...Jack
all best; jack
 
rev3oh2
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RE: Bush Vs Kerry

Sun May 02, 2004 12:29 am

I'm curious to know why those posting from Europe seem to have such confidence in a Kerry victory? Apart from the fact that he's not George Bush (the reason many seem to be supporting him here), what do they see in him as a potential leader?

I can tell you that a lot of Bush supporters are terribly disappointed in the way Bush has become just like the loyal opposition in terms of his "big government" spending. But when viewed from the standpoint of who they'd rather have dealing with terror threats and defense, I think most of them will hold their nose and vote for Bush, given Kerry's poor record in support of defense spending, not to mention his ever-shifting positions on other issues.
...let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Bush Vs Kerry

Sun May 02, 2004 12:41 am

I think the war in Iraq, if it still going the way it is, COULD cost Bush the election.

I still think it's a toss-up, with a slight advantage to Bush. But it's far from certain if he'll win again. We're still 7 months from the election.

I think a key is what will happen after June 30th, when/if the U.S. hands over the reigns of governemt to someone in Iraq.
 
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JeffM
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RE: Bush Vs Kerry

Sun May 02, 2004 1:04 am

If we hand over control, and they piss it away...it will be Bush's fault for not waiting.

If we don't because they are not ready, then it will be Bush's fault.

Ask any Liberal, they have both arguments well rehearsed.

 
bragi
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RE: Bush Vs Kerry

Sun May 02, 2004 1:19 am

Best to let the facts speak for themselves;
http://www.hugi.is/hahradi/bigboxes.php?box_id=51208&f_id=890
Muhammad Ali: "Superman don’t need no seat belt." Flight Attendant: "Superman don’t need no airplane, either."
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Bush Vs Kerry

Sun May 02, 2004 2:38 am

If we hand over control, and they piss it away...it will be Bush's fault for not waiting.

If we don't because they are not ready, then it will be Bush's fault.


Jeff, for God's sake-HE STARTED THE WAR. He SHOULD be called on the carpet if things go bad, because it was HIS action in ordering the invasion that has precipitated events since then. Not Saddam, not the Democrats, not Europe, but President Bush. The buck has to stop with him.

Conversely, I'm sure you wouldn't waste a second in condemning President John Kerry if, two years after the handover happens, the place falls apart. It will have been Bush's doing, but you'll be the first one on here bitching.
 
NWA742
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RE: Bush Vs Kerry

Sun May 02, 2004 2:45 am

A major problem here is that a large number of Kerry supporters don't actually care about his goals and his plans for our country. They seem to only care about him replacing Bush, like that's the most important thing he can do.

Just goes to show the idiocy of the many who've taken an unbelievable hatred to Bush on the basis of bullshit ideology.




-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Bush Vs Kerry

Sun May 02, 2004 2:49 am

NWA742, what a bitter man you are these days.

And most nutcase conservatives, like yourself, just wanted Clinton replaced by any Republican in 2000, and didn't care about what his program was.

I think we need a change in leadership. Who the hell are you to question the reasons I vote for anyone. Talk about arrogance.

You're really getting whacked out.
 
NWA742
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RE: Bush Vs Kerry

Sun May 02, 2004 2:55 am

NWA742, what a bitter man you are these days.

Actually, I'm the same man I've been for a long time.

And most nutcase conservatives, like yourself, just wanted Clinton replaced by any Republican in 2000, and didn't care about what his program was.

Thanks a lot Alpha 1, calling me a nutcase conservative just because I don't hate Bush like it was my life's goal.  Insane

I voted for Bush in 2000 because I thought he would make a better president than Al Gore. And yes, I think both Al Gore and Bush would be better leaders than Clinton.

Who the hell are you to question the reasons I vote for anyone.

I never mentioned anyone specifically Alpha 1. Stop making things up.

You're really getting whacked out.

Actually, I'm perfectly fine. Your obvious offense to what I said only strengthens my case and ends yours.



-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
L.1011
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RE: Bush Vs Kerry

Sun May 02, 2004 2:58 am

I'm not going to say Bush is a particularly great President. He's a good President, and a good man, but not in the league of Reagan-win-every-state-but-one. He still holds the advantage, as the country's condition seems to be improving. However, we will know the results if- Osama is caught or this becomes Bush Rice or Bush Powell 2004. For better or for worse, minority groups tend to vote for the minority candidate/ticket regardless if they agree with them. The same happens with any group as a minority. That puts a lot of minority votes in the red state column. It also sets Condi or Colon up for a 2008 run against Hillary. An Osama capture also secures the election for Bush. Some are also suggesting that Kerry will implode in August, because just hating Bush and not proposing any ideas himself will only fly so long. We'll see, but a Bush win looks likely.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Bush Vs Kerry

Sun May 02, 2004 2:59 am

Actually, I'm the same man I've been for a long time.

I know-bitter against anyone who doesn't see things your way. That was my point.  Big grin

Thanks a lot Alpha 1, calling me a nutcase conservative just because I don't hate Bush like it was my life's goal.

Sorry to break the news to you, but you, and conservatives, hated Clinton a hundred times more than any "liberal" hates Bush. 8 1/2 years of witch hunting says that's the truth.

I voted for Bush in 2000 because I thought he would make a better president than Al Gore.

Funny, that's why I'm voting for Kerry. Amazing.
 
NWA742
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RE: Bush Vs Kerry

Sun May 02, 2004 3:05 am

I know-bitter against anyone who doesn't see things your way. That was my point.

If that's the way I've always been, then why am I on your RU list Alpha? And why are you on mine? I've stuck to my views and my beliefs, and for the most part, so have you, but with views on Bush, you've turned into a whining far left winger who does nothing but bash him.

Sorry to break the news to you, but you, and conservatives, hated Clinton a hundred times more than any "liberal" hates Bush.

Msot ridiculous thing I've ever read. Look at the outcry from the liberals and how much they hate Bush. It's a THOUSAND times worse and louder than the conservative voice who hates Clinton. You probably think the conservative voice on these boards defending Bush is louder than the liberal voice opposing Bush, don't you?

Funny, that's why I'm voting for Kerry. Amazing.

Well congradulations, I'm not going to blame you for that if you really feel that way. Good job for not joining the morons voting for Kerry just to get Bush out.



-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
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Aloha717200
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RE: Bush Vs Kerry

Sun May 02, 2004 3:09 am

Rev33oh2:

Kerry's poor record in support of defense spending, not to mention his ever-shifting positions on other issues.



You must not have read my post containing facts that completely prove the contrary. John Kerry has a good record on defense, even John McCain came to his defense on that. And shifting policies? First off, he's not a flip-flopper, you've been hearing that because the Bush ads have succeeded in defining him, but few people have actually taken Bush's ads with a grain of salt and actually checked for themselves to see if they were true.


I ask you this:

Why are you so quick to believe Bush when he labels Kerry, without looking into it for yourself? This is a man that said gay marriage was a non-issue in his 2000 election, said that saddam hussein had WMD, changed his position on abortion rights....among other things, George Bush is the ultimate flip-flopper...and then he accuses Kerry of having a tax gap, and get this, many of Kerry's proposals are similar to what Bush promised in his 2000 campaign. In short, he's being a hypocrite and running such negative ads against Kerry that people aren't seeing the forest through the trees. Bush has no right to call Kerry a flip flopper, that title belongs solely on himself.


And, yes, Kerry has changed his mind on a few issues...what I'll quote bill maher here and say: "It's a sad state of affairs when being a thoughtful person, who evolves in his thinking, is labeled a flip-flopper. I mean these Bush supporters go: "George Bush is a strong leader because he knows ONE THING". I mean, wouldn't you want someone who is capable of adapting with his thinking?"


Don't praise Bush because he is an immovable rock. Have you changed your mind within the last 10 years?


Nevertheless, if you have an open mind, please, read this thread, and see a complete debunking of the GOP's charges against Kerry. Please, all I ask is that you read it and perhaps open your mind to the possiblity that George Bush could be wrong when he calls Kerry a flip-flopper. Always, always always, take political ads with a large grain of salt. Even Kerry has made some exaggerations against Bush. It's politics. Be educated and find out the truth for yourself.


Please look here:

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/non_aviation/read.main/544822
 
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Aloha717200
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RE: Bush Vs Kerry

Sun May 02, 2004 3:19 am

BTW, I'm supporting Kerry because my first candidate of choice, Wes Clark, dropped out of the race. I supported Clark first, then Kerry for a while, then went back to Clark, and then went back to Kerry after Clark dropped out. I really think Kerry will do a much better job as president than George W. Bush has, and I hope he wins so that I can see if his promises will be fulfilled. Except the national service one, I hope that goes down in flames in congress. See, Kerry has some bad ideas too. I support the man with some reservations, but I have far fewer reservations against Kerry than I do against Bush. The former I at least consider trustworthy and presidential. The latter has lost my trust and my vote as commander in chief of this country. I don't consider Bush an honest man.

I also believe Kerry will be a friend to aviation, as he himself is a pilot.

[Edited 2004-05-01 20:20:34]
 
rev3oh2
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RE: Bush Vs Kerry

Sun May 02, 2004 6:12 am

I voted for Bush in 2000 because I thought he would make a better president than Al Gore.>

Funny, that's why I'm voting for Kerry. Amazing.

I agree, I think Kerry would make a better president than Al Gore too.

...let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us.
 
COTXDFW777AA
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RE: Bush Vs Kerry

Sun May 02, 2004 6:25 am

Being from Texas, I will pull a Dixie Chick...........

GWB lead us through a tough time, 9/11, but his policy of making the US hated by everyone all over the world, doesn't work well....... me and GWB share the same religious beliefs but my no means should religious ideals become political goals. And the Iraqi situation, well that just shows no matter how much you like the movie "Full metal jacket" you can still not get the message, ie Vietnam sucked.

So this NOV. I will be voting (for the first time) for Kerry.

-COTXDFW777AA
Texas- it's like a whole different country!
 
rev3oh2
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RE: Bush Vs Kerry

Sun May 02, 2004 6:25 am

Aloha....

Don't get me wrong. I don't think Bush is the model of consistency either. My assessment, since you made a point of trying to educate me about Kerry's voting record, was not that Bush is a saint and Kerry is inept.

But those voting against Kerry who may also disagree with Bush on any number of issues are still much more likely to vote for Bush, despite his flaws (unless they're Libertarians or Nader supporters), given that ideologically they are probably a lot closer to Bush than Kerry.

Also, please don't assume that GOP advertising has molded my views, and I won't assume that you're blindly voting for Kerry because he's not Bush. Have we got a deal?
...let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us.
 
jcs17
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RE: Bush Vs Kerry

Sun May 02, 2004 9:15 am

The liberal ideology in the United States is in disarray. Instead of campaigning on political issues, the main focus has been "Anyone but Bush." I mean, if you want a good look at the Democrat's platform, look at Alpha1. It goes something along these lines, "Bush sucks, Bush sucks, anyone but Bush, Bush sucks, tax the wealthy, Bush sucks, Bush sucks, Bush sucks, Bush lied over WMD, Bush sucks, Bush sucks, Bush sucks." For that reason, Bush will win. Then again, what else do you have to campaign on when tax cuts have been proven to work and the war on terrorism has been a success. Sure, they can run on Iraq, but even that as a decent campaign issue is very much up for debate. Most Americans still support the war and many Americans think that John Kerry's stance on it is simply confusing--and why shouldn't they think that? The guy's platforms change with the polls. It won't even be funny how bad the debates will go for John Kerry, Bush is hardly an apt public speaker, but he will just be able to go after John Kerry. You'll see Kerry's numbers drop substantially once the conventions are over and the first debate is finished. The raging liberals of the House and Senate won't help any either. One bad Teddy Kennedy quote and Kerry could see his numbers drop even further. The people want to know where they stand with a political candidate--Bush is straight up, Kerry is a flip-flopper. Only one presidential candidate has been able to get by with bullshit--Bill Clinton, one of the greatest orators of the 20th century.

As for me, I'll be voting in my first presidential election (I was 17 in 2000), and I will proudly be placing my vote for a Texan named George W. Bush.

I can't wait to see a.net the day after the elections. The Euros will be screaming "Stupid Americans!" and Alpha1 will be posting his suicide note.  Big grin
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Bush Vs Kerry

Sun May 02, 2004 9:21 am

You wish Jcs.

But if Bush wins, and that's still problematical, that's fine.

Because in '08, Jcs, you and your "conservative idelology" will be in such disrepair after another 4 years of this extremists administration, that no Republican will have a prayer then. So either way, it's cool, kid.  Smile
 
BN747
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RE: Bush Vs Kerry

Sun May 02, 2004 9:30 am

The person selected to lead the most powerful nation on earth...

Should be a sterling diplomat..for he's the nation's chief Statesman to the world.

He/she should be lighting quick with conditions and facts regarding foreign and domestic issues and relations.

He/she should be cognizant of military might, prudent and appropriate applications of such might.

He/she should have a working knowledge social and economic issues, historical and contemporary.

George Bush strikes out in every single category.

Al Gore or John Kerry supercedes the minimum needs of any of these categories without effort.

Our current prez could not face a congressional commission mano-y-mano... how brave could he possibly be? He talks loud and bravely with the US military standing behind him...but when stands alone...he cannot stand at all. He was a coward when he had the chance to be all he could be in 1967 (Vietnam) almost 40 years later... he needed someone at his side to answer for his actions before a panel of senior-citizen congressmen. This in no way..is a leader!

How any thinking person can overlook all this.. all that has happened, and say he's a great guy and a strong leader..is beyond me. Or they just aren't thinking at all.

Heaven forbid if Kerry should win...all the necessary means to destroy him are already in place, the christian jihad-wing of the republican party and hawkish talk-show goons are tired of defending Bush and will be praying for a new 'Clinton' to go after. And it very well may be Kerry..simply upon winning. The smallest issue will be made bigger than MWDs/Iraq in the media circles..so get ready....cuz, here we go again!


BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
MD11LuxuryLinr
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RE: Bush Vs Kerry

Sun May 02, 2004 9:58 am

After reading BN747's statement, I need to ask pro-Bushies a question:

All of you who support Mr. Bush and think he is a 'good' president, can you justify your thinking? Can you give specific examples of what great things he has done during his first term of holding the most powerful office of the strongest nation in the world? Things that have made our country better or greater? Things that have enhanced the lives of our fellow citizens?

There is a catch, though. Leave 9-11-2001 out of it.

I'm interested in your responses..  Smile
Caution wake turbulence, you are following a heavy jet.
 
rev3oh2
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RE: Bush Vs Kerry

Sun May 02, 2004 10:58 am

Well, let's see...since the terms "good" and "bad," when applied to a political leader, are terms used interchangeably depending on one's political leaning, I'll just list the things that I think are positive.

He managed to get Congress to pass tax cuts which never would have been put in place had Al Gore been elected. In fact, since the economy is now on the rebound, I'd have to say that those tax cuts have been somewhat effective, even to the point of John Kerry now promising even more tax cuts than President Bush has helped pass.

He supported the partial birth abortion ban, which passed, in the process getting all those who favor any abortion at any time (Kerry, a la Clinton, "let's keep abortion safe, legal and rare!" what a joke!) to reveal their true stripes.

He managed to appoint two federal judicial nominees who never had the benefit of a vote from the Senate judiciary committee, based on the pro-abortion litmus test of liberal Democrats.

He managed to expose the weakness of the U.N. with regard to dealing with tyrants like Saddam Hussein, who was playing them like a fiddle, while certain nations were cutting sweetheart deals with Saddam as he conveniently manipulated the "oil for palaces" program.

He managed to finally uproot the support network for Al-Qaida in Afghanistan, driving them into the remote mountain regions where they continue to hide while Afghanistan rebuilds itself.

He continues to frustrate his political opponents who talk about how crafty and deceptive he is on the one hand and what a blithering idiot he is on the other. It is clear they hate him, but they vastly underestimate him, which is fun to watch.

As for making our country better or greater, I believe he has put our enemies on notice that when they attempt to do us harm, as long as he's in office, there will be hell to pay.

He threw a pretty good first-pitch strike at the St. Louis Cardinals home opener.


...let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us.
 
cptkrell
Posts: 3186
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RE: Bush Vs Kerry

Sun May 02, 2004 12:38 pm

I kinda like Rev3oh2's post, although I"d add that let's not not be sucked into non-wavering 'hate' pluses and minuses here, guys and girls.

The war deal seems to be a big-time disaster, and I oppose "helping" any other countries too, especially when shit is goofy (see how isolationist I'm becoming?), so my real bitch about the current administration is that they are apparently below par in international affairs. Leave people alone, even if they want to torture and eat each other. Only when other folks present a 'clear and present danger' should action be taken.

On the economical front, it might be noted, the President has no actual powers to govern the economy; he only has his opinions and the support/non-support of other elected leaders to pass/not pass/ignore/filibuster/yank/pull/sqweel like a pig/wimper like a dog, etc. to modify or change laws that will effect most constituants economically. On the economic front, I'll give GWB my vote (IF I decide to vote this year...I'm still pissed at the Iraq deal).

I have no faith (sorry; faith might be a forbidden word to some Adotters) in John Kerry whatsoever. Regards...Jack

all best; jack
 
Guest

RE: Bush Vs Kerry

Sun May 02, 2004 1:18 pm

"Everybody I've met here in Germany thinks that it's obvious that Kerry will win on November 2nd. They just couldn't imagine anybody who supports Bush (and for what reason). Same goes for me.

Thank God your in Germany.

"why should prisoners not vote?
citizen rights removal(right to vote is a very important citizen right) should only apply to the most severe criminals like mass murders and rapists. if someone stole a car and sits in jail for it, i see no reason why they should not vote."

That's why you are in Antartica. Personally they used to shoot horse thieves in this country. I almost think we should try that with car thieves, and definately murderers and rapist.
 
NWA742
Posts: 4505
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RE: Bush Vs Kerry

Sun May 02, 2004 1:40 pm

I agree with Emmett99.

Why should those who have already proven themselves to be only a menace to society, be able to make decisions that affect that society, such as voting?

There's no good reason for it. There is, however, a very good reason as to why these individuals who commit crimes lose some of their rights.



-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
rjpieces
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Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: Bush Vs Kerry

Sun May 02, 2004 1:48 pm

I don't think the election will be a repeat of 2000. The states have gone through a lot to make sure all votes will be counted, and the voting machines will be simplifiied to avoid another Florida.

That said, I think Bush will win. And although I detest consevative domestic policies, I feel very strongly that international affairs are more important in this moment and with international affairs I am very aligned with the Paul Wolfowitz Neoconservative viewpoint.

Can you give specific examples of what great things he has done during his first term of holding the most powerful office of the strongest nation in the world?

The economy is on a path to recovery, it might take some time. Two threats to the US in the Middle East are gone (Iraq, Libya). Afghanistan is no longer a terrorist breeding ground. Steps have been taken to increase security inside the US. It finally looks like peace might be on the horizon with the Israel/Palestine situation.

Two countries left that we have to deal with: Iran and North Korea. Personally, I think Israel would attack Iran before Iran gets their hands on nuclear weapons. North Korea.......whole separate issue.

Like I said, I disagree strongly with Bush on parts of his domestic agenda but I just feel more strongly about international affairs.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
BN747
Posts: 5344
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RE: Bush Vs Kerry

Sun May 02, 2004 1:55 pm

Well, let's see...since the terms "good" and "bad," when applied to a political leader, are terms used interchangeably depending on one's political leaning, I'll just list the things that I think are positive.

He managed to get Congress to pass tax cuts which never would have been put in place had Al Gore been elected. In fact, since the economy is now on the rebound, I'd have to say that those tax cuts have been somewhat effective, even to the point of John Kerry now promising even more tax cuts than President Bush has helped pass.


You must be joking...if you'll fall for this..you fall for anything! First of all.. $300 into the pockets of most working families in America has already been eaten up by simply filling up theire gas tanks in 3 months. Secondly, with the Dow at 10,225....we are just where we were when Clinton left office...only WORSE! With 4 years having past...and 3 million people having lost their jobs, nothing is picking up! We are simply getting back to where we once were...that is not an improvement -- if you're climbing a mountain and fall 200 feet and mange to get back to where you began your fall..that is not an improvement in any terms... and we haven't done that yet.

Thirdly, the jobs that have been recovered are meager in compared to those lost..the wages are embarrassing lower than the one's they replaced. So if this illusion works on you..I'm sure there's more in the bags from which these came.

He supported the partial birth abortion ban, which passed, in the process getting all those who favor any abortion at any time (Kerry, a la Clinton, "let's keep abortion safe, legal and rare!" what a joke!) to reveal their true stripes.

If you're a member of the anti-abortion crowd..I guess that's a win. But I feel since men can't get abortions...this is a battle men should sit out. If for every abortion desired .. the impregnating male had to be sterilized in order to balance out the equation (and share some of the pain)...let's see how many men would jump off the anti-abortion train....?

He managed to appoint two federal judicial nominees who never had the benefit of a vote from the Senate judiciary committee, based on the pro-abortion litmus test of liberal Democrats.

He also managed to appoint Nazi chief Ashcroft. He also managed to appoint the controversial Mississippi judge Charles Pickering to the Federal Appellate court. And few other neo-cons to lower courts...that progress for ya'!

He managed to expose the weakness of the U.N. with regard to dealing with tyrants like Saddam Hussein, who was playing them like a fiddle, while certain nations were cutting sweetheart deals with Saddam as he conveniently manipulated the "oil for palaces" program.

Ohe did..did he? The UN's job isn't nation building. So the US turned on one of it's allies.. that's news? Saddam would not be who he was if not for Bush's dad , Rumsfield and Reagan. We were Saddam's biggest 'sweetheart' before we turned on him. Again..if you create a monster...and you destroy it...you're not ahead! You're just back were you started..square one! If you endorse what you say above..then going into North Korea or Cuba has to be your next move. Saudi Arabia perhaps?

He managed to finally uproot the support network for Al-Qaida in Afghanistan, driving them into the remote mountain regions where they continue to hide while Afghanistan rebuilds itself.

Oh that's smart...do exactly what you did in Iraq #1...send them into retreat so they can return to haunt you another day. And trust me..they will return. But what a sec....wasn't the US responsible for launching the Taliban too? Yes we were...we aid them when they were battling the russians...under a nother name of course. Again..we assisted in creating this monster too.

He continues to frustrate his political opponents who talk about how crafty and deceptive he is on the one hand and what a blithering idiot he is on the other. It is clear they hate him, but they vastly underestimate him, which is fun to watch.

His opponents merely underestimated how stupid the american people are...not Bush. They know how tautological Bush is (on a personally level too)... they are absolutely baffled that the 50% of american people can't see it and buy into it lock stock and barrel! Bush is only deceiving himself and 50% of the nation..he's not crafty by any means, Clinton was crafty and the master politician..the uber politician. There's no mystery to a secret government ..you just close the doors and keep people guessing at what's really going on. That's not crafty...but it is deceptive.

As for making our country better or greater, I believe he has put our enemies on notice that when they attempt to do us harm, as long as he's in office, there will be hell to pay.

Uh huh... more and exactly who just learned this...that didn't know it before? The Bush reign has sent the volunteer rate for 'Terrorist R US' into the stratosphere!

This statement...
I believe he has put our enemies on notice that when they attempt to do us harm,..

... is unbelievable, almost child-like, it acts as if we are some newly emerged nation, that needs to let people know 'a new bully is on the block'. Newsflash, we've been #1 since the turn of the 20th century.. this is not news by any means. Nothing has changed. Since you endorsed this perspective as well..I certainly hope this 'War On Terror' goes better than the War On ____ (take your pick)!

Why don't we just make it mandatory that every future prez be fast at the trigger and every nation that looks like it's gonna do something (we think is bad)...we just run in and 'hammer the hell out for them' before they knew what hit 'em. Just wondering...did your parents do that to you too?

He threw a pretty good first-pitch strike at the St. Louis Cardinals home opener.

BFD!!! Talk about easily impressed??!!?...

Let's see which would a rather have?

1) A president that can articulate (and not embarrass himself or the nation).
or
2) A president that can play baseball...

Yeah... I'm stupid..I'd choose the wannabee baseball player too!  Yeah sure


BN747

"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
IMissPiedmont
Posts: 6200
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 12:58 pm

RE: Bush Vs Kerry

Sun May 02, 2004 2:20 pm

It pains me a small bit to say that I'll be voting, again, for the losing canidate. That is if the election were tommorrow. Perhaps Kerry will give me a reason to change that choice in the next 180 days, but I doubt he will.

I think Kerry will win but as things stand it will be without my vote.

Better the devil you know etc..........
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
BN747
Posts: 5344
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

RE: Bush Vs Kerry

Sun May 02, 2004 2:38 pm

Like I said, I disagree strongly with Bush on parts of his domestic agenda but I just feel more strongly about international affairs.

You do??? So you'd feel comfortable if everyone in your neighborhood rather have nothing to do with you except 1 or 2?

That's exactly what Bush has done with international affairs.. we are no longer in good standing with a sh*tload of nations because of his 'go-at-it-alone' attitude! I have to wonder..how many times have you been abroad? And where to?

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
rsmith6621a
Posts: 1507
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 2:21 pm

RE: Bush Vs Kerry

Sun May 02, 2004 4:25 pm




JeffM said....

>>>Maybe he can try and get all the prisoners to vote like Gore? 'Ya think?<<

Back that statement up with some facts Jeff......Maybe Bush would have lost if they(the FL Reps and the Bush STAFF) hadnt thrown ballot boxes of Gore votes in the many swamps in FL.

I still find it kinda funny that the 2000 vote escapade happened in the state were the PREZes Bro is Gov.

Whats even sadder is that the small amount of seperation of votes for both Gore and Bush really shows that there really isnt any real standout quality candidates for the nation highest job........Bush aint no Regan but somehow he thinks he is......

I hope the gas prices do go down in Oct....then Woodward would be right....I dont think the Saudis are that great of freinds with Bush anyhow.

Did You Ever Think Freedom Could Be this Bad
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: Bush Vs Kerry

Mon May 03, 2004 12:13 am

You do??? So you'd feel comfortable if everyone in your neighborhood rather have nothing to do with you except 1 or 2?

That's exactly what Bush has done with international affairs.. we are no longer in good standing with a sh*tload of nations because of his 'go-at-it-alone' attitude! I have to wonder..how many times have you been abroad? And where to?


First off, just because many of the Western countries disagreed over Iraq doesn't mean much. Embrace democracy. We are still best friends. Our countries are still strongly linked. And we've moved on past Iraq. The recent bombings in Madrid and attempted bombings in Paris serve to show us that there is a great cause worth being united on, fighting Islamic fundamentalism, rather than disagreeing over something that happened a year ago already.

Bush's "go at it alone" attitue might not be popular with the Europeans, but it's our way of dealing with the problems. And I haven't seen European governments come up with solutions to the problems that the West faces.

I've been abroad several times to Europe: England, France, Spain, Netherlands, Germany. So don't give me your "anti-European" crap. I love Europe and hope to live there someday.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
aviationwiz
Posts: 882
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 7:20 pm

RE: Bush Vs Kerry

Mon May 03, 2004 3:02 am

Ushermittwoch,

sad, but true, early on last election, the buzz was "Florida" "What's going on in Florida"

That's before the recount crap.

Going on, I'm doing my very hardest to get Bush out of office. I can't stand another 4 years of record deficits (from record surpluses), the tax cuts helping out the richest 2% more than any other group, almost yearly invasions of nations, his economic policies (wait, WHAT economic policies,  Laugh out loud), loss of millions of jobs, and the list just goes on & on...

Kerry on the other hand will equal out tax cuts to help the middle class, which is what most of Americans are, create jobs, minimize the deficit, crack down further on terrorism, without the loss of our civil liberties, and the with the help of our allies across the globe.
Proudly from the Home of the Red Tail.
 
BN747
Posts: 5344
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

RE: Bush Vs Kerry

Mon May 03, 2004 3:26 am

I've been abroad several times to Europe: England, France, Spain, Netherlands, Germany. So don't give me your "anti-European" crap. I love Europe and hope to live there someday.

You must have went to all these places with a blindfold on....there's no way anyone with such international expose..and also endorse Bush's isolationist attitude on foreign policy. That's like missing oil and water...and that doesn't mix..neither does your spin about his great ideas on 'international affairs'

Oh and the big tax cut nonsense...the wealthiest man this side of Bill Gates...Warren Buffet of Berkshire Hathaway said yesterday and 2 months ago..this tax cut has done nothing but make 'people like me richer than we already are...' now if you don't take that as some serious advice..you really deserve the miserable future the 'Bush Tax' cuts are promising you.

It's scary, for the 1st time in several generations in America... kids are not fairing better than their parents. Proof of this? All these young adults still living at home.. the last time this happened was in the '50s. When I was coming up and afterwards...all teens aimed to get out of the house and make their mark. Not this current generation..they are going to college and returning home to save up...but are never leaving! That is very bad and sad state of affairs! And this economy will do nothing to resolve that!

BN747

"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
QIguy24
Posts: 2744
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 1:13 am

RE: Bush Vs Kerry

Mon May 03, 2004 2:11 pm

"Everybody I've met here in Germany thinks that it's obvious that Kerry will win on November 2nd. They just couldn't imagine anybody who supports Bush (and for what reason). Same goes for me.

Thank God your in Germany.



It's actually amazing that some of you guys don't care about what the rest of the world say. What ever leader the US has affects the rest of the world. And GWB has really screwed up the friendship between many countries after he became the president.
 
BN747
Posts: 5344
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

RE: Bush Vs Kerry

Mon May 03, 2004 4:01 pm

Qlguy24, can you say that loud enough for Rjpieces to hear??? For some odd reason...he's under the impression that Bush's polices have done wonders for US/World relations.. in fact he's admittedly, a huge fan of such policies!


BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
saslover
Posts: 338
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 2:04 am

RE: Bush Vs Kerry

Mon May 03, 2004 10:31 pm

I hope Kerry wins and for a good reason
Pilot how soon can you land this plane. I can't tell. Yes you can tell me I am a doctor
 
planespotting
Posts: 3026
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 4:54 am

RE: Bush Vs Kerry

Mon May 03, 2004 10:40 pm

my ultra flagrant post has been deleted.
Do you like movies about gladiators?
 
planespotting
Posts: 3026
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 4:54 am

RE: Bush Vs Kerry

Mon May 03, 2004 10:45 pm

Repost with some edits (less naughty words):

I'm really sick and tired of people bringing up this awesome tax cut. Thats bull shit. I'm a 20 year old kid and i paid in about $1000 in Fed Tax (NOT FICA or anything like that) this past year and i got back about $300. In my first year of working in 2000 (UNDER CLINTON!) i paid in about $600 in Fed Tax and got back $300! My mom, who is a single mother and a small business owner got tax refunds every year under clinton. Guesswhat she does under Mr Bush. Pays! How the f*ck does this help anyone who really deserves it?

I have already gotten started with my Bush bashing so watch out. the Bush admin has to realize that the US is NOT the only country that matters in the world. his go it alone attitude is for shit. The United States is about 270,000,000 or so strong, whereas the world is arond 5 BILLION. we are about 5.4% of the entire world population, yet we act as if we are the only people who matter.

Bush as a person seems like a decent guy. He seems like a guy you could go have a beer with at the end of the day. He seems like a guy who would work at the same factory his entire life, own that Chevy pickup truck, have kids and a wife, buy the boat, go to the same bar after work every night for a few with the boys but still be home in time for dinner. Not a bad guy. However in my hometown i know this type very well, all likeable guys, but definitely NOT someone i want running this damn country. Did you see the press conference a few weeks ago? Did you see what a bumbling idiot he was?

"Mr. President can you think of any mistakes you and your administration has made in the war on iraq"

"Ohh,, well.......umm,.... *looks down*...well jeez, heh i wish you wuld have given me that question before the press conference so i could have prepared for it..i'm not sure of the answer i'll have to get back to you on that"

Letseee without thinking i can give you a few answers mr. stupid:

"lying to the american public was probably a step in the wrong direction"
"perhaps we should have gone in with a bit more support from other nations"
"a little more preparation could have been useful, i guess we weren't as prepared to pacify iraq as we were to conquer it"
"Maybe if we would have went into Iraq for the right reasons this wouldn't have been as big of a mess as it's turned into, had i not came into this office with the forgone conclusion of ousting saddam hussein things would have happened a bit differently, and we would have lost over 700 american servicemen and counting"


Can you ever imagine bush saying anything close to that?

ANnnnnnnnnd don't get me started on the issue of gay marriage, and all this christian bullshit that has come out of this administration. Aren't we a society that moves forward. Last i checked we are a shit ton different in 2004 then we were in 1904. The main thing that pisses me off is that Republicans in general think they have the right to press on us whatever beliefs they think are "ideal" and to hell with common sense. Our culture is ever changing, we live in a world now that has expanded exponentially in the past 10 years due to changing technology and ways of new thinking. This old world style of goverment (that we can thank ronald reagan for showing us doesn't work...look at the the economic recession experienced in 1991-94 immediately following his presidency, Bush Sr can think him for not being re-elected) is not going to take us through the next 10 years.

I'm not saying that liberals or moderate liberals have all the right answers, no one does. bottom line is however that people with open minds and open hearts are more likely to accept new ways of thinking and believing and doing things, then people who continuosly shut their eyes to the outside world and think any change is wrong. fuck that. Do YOU wanna live in a world who's boundaries shrink rather then expand. Would you rather accept people with open arms or closed? Would you rather do the same thing the same way for your entire lifetime. DO you want to be bored all the time. If you answered yes to all those questions then vote for bush.
Do you like movies about gladiators?
 
j.mo
Posts: 652
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2002 12:29 am

RE: Bush Vs Kerry

Mon May 03, 2004 11:37 pm

Since world opinion actually matters to me as an American, I simply could not place a vote for GW Bush. I am almost at the hatred level for these clowns in the White House. It's fairly obvious to me that Bush is simply a figurehead. He does not run the show. Dick Cheny and Bush's "advisors" run the show.

The only good thing that will happen if Bush wins is,he won't be around in 2008. The V.P. won't run so our Limbaugh loving crowd will have to find another God to worship, Arnold maybe?

Last thing. I read an editorial yesterday that had me laughing. It mentioned this "controversy" over Kerry throwing his Vietnam medals back. It comparing which Vietnam medals Kerry threw back and which medals GW Bush could have thrown back?

Do cheerleaders receive medals?

Jeremy


 
L.1011
Posts: 2164
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2001 7:46 am

RE: Bush Vs Kerry

Tue May 04, 2004 8:30 am

I have two things to say to the Bush haters.

1. Do you realize that, under the Bush taxcut, a family of four making $40,000 a year has 98% of their income tax burden eliminated, dropping from $1,490 to $45?

2. I suggest you all take a trip to Gettysburg, Pennsylvania. Look at the ground. The blood of 200,000 men is in that ground. You are whining over 700. It's called perspective.

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