727LOVER
Topic Author
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(Iraq Pris. Abuse) Is She A Scapegoat?

Sat May 08, 2004 5:42 am

"IT'S SO NOT HER." claims family, friends.

http://www.dailytelegraph.news.com.au/story.jsp?sectionid=1258&storyid=1302907

http://homepage.mac.com/rondavis/iblog/C1916670613/E564552831/

http://bitterfact.tripod.com/iraq/torture_photos1.html


Even if she WAS following orders, I doubt she wasn't oredered to pose with a thumbs up.


What's your take?
I feel woozy....what did you put in that Pudding Pop?
 
Zweed
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RE: (Iraq Pris. Abuse) Is She A Scapegoat?

Sat May 08, 2004 5:47 am

crime was commited in Iraq. let the Iraqi sharia-court give her a trial.

DO they stone people to death in Iraq like in Iran?
 
qr332
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RE: (Iraq Pris. Abuse) Is She A Scapegoat?

Sat May 08, 2004 5:59 am

Well - Problem is Iraq has a new flag but no new proper justice system, so we dont no what the shareea courts are gonna be like yet.
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
CPH-R
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RE: (Iraq Pris. Abuse) Is She A Scapegoat?

Sat May 08, 2004 5:59 am

I think she's being singled out to blame, because she's the one showing on the photos.
 
PPGMD
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RE: (Iraq Pris. Abuse) Is She A Scapegoat?

Sat May 08, 2004 6:20 am

crime was commited in Iraq. let the Iraqi sharia-court give her a trial.

But she was at the time doing her duty as a military officer, which means that she is in the Military justice system.
At worst, you screw up and die.
 
backfire
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RE: (Iraq Pris. Abuse) Is She A Scapegoat?

Sat May 08, 2004 6:59 am

I suppose the excuse is going to be "I was only following orders..."  Insane


Didn't work for the Nazis, dear...
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: (Iraq Pris. Abuse) Is She A Scapegoat?

Sat May 08, 2004 7:16 am

If she's a scapegoat fine. If not, then there's not much difference.

Demented cow. She'll get what's coming to her.
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
L-188
Posts: 29874
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RE: (Iraq Pris. Abuse) Is She A Scapegoat?

Sat May 08, 2004 12:48 pm

Oh I believe that she did it.

I also believe that she is also a scapegoat.

Apparently according to the news tonight, she got knocked up five months ago from the sargent that is in some of the shots with her.


And you are correct, "just following orders" isn't defensible.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Russophile
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RE: (Iraq Pris. Abuse) Is She A Scapegoat?

Sat May 08, 2004 1:31 pm

Maybe she can use the "trailer park excuse"?!? Why am I not surprised?  Smile

But yeah, they are being used as scapegoats -- doesn't excuse what they did -- but there are probably too many higher ranking military officials who won't see any investigation taking place against them -- to have 6 scapegoats is good enough in the eyes of the public.
 
L-188
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Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: (Iraq Pris. Abuse) Is She A Scapegoat?

Sat May 08, 2004 1:54 pm

Actually they are up to at least 13 now Russophile.

I suspect that more will follow.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
JOSEMEX
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RE: (Iraq Pris. Abuse) Is She A Scapegoat?

Sat May 08, 2004 2:30 pm

She should get the exact same punishment as if it had been a male soldier.

Not more, but certainly not less either.
 
L-188
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RE: (Iraq Pris. Abuse) Is She A Scapegoat?

Sat May 08, 2004 2:35 pm

Jose I can't see any scenario where she isn't going to end up with what the Army calls, "A Kansas Vacation"

But give the time for the system to work. She and the others are entitled to that.


Ducking now because I am sure some wag is going to take a shot at that last comment.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
andz
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RE: (Iraq Pris. Abuse) Is She A Scapegoat?

Sat May 08, 2004 2:36 pm

I just saw Colin Powell on TV and he referred to the "misbehaviour of some American soldiers in Iraq..."

Talk about an understatement!
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
JAL777
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RE: (Iraq Pris. Abuse) Is She A Scapegoat?

Sat May 08, 2004 2:37 pm

What was understated??

Should it have been "the misbehaviour of all American soldiers in Iraq..."
 
andz
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RE: (Iraq Pris. Abuse) Is She A Scapegoat?

Sat May 08, 2004 2:49 pm

the use of the word "misbehaviour"
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
L-188
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Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: (Iraq Pris. Abuse) Is She A Scapegoat?

Sat May 08, 2004 2:50 pm

You guys better not be writing the world "all" into that comment.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
JAL777
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RE: (Iraq Pris. Abuse) Is She A Scapegoat?

Sat May 08, 2004 2:52 pm

What word would you rather have had him use?
 
andz
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RE: (Iraq Pris. Abuse) Is She A Scapegoat?

Sat May 08, 2004 3:00 pm

misbehaviour is when a kid sticks a banana in a car's tailpipe. I think most people would agree that this is a little more serious than that.
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
N79969
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RE: (Iraq Pris. Abuse) Is She A Scapegoat?

Sat May 08, 2004 3:05 pm

How is she a scapegoat for anything? She is not being held accountable for other peoples' actions.

In addition to being depraved enough to participate in torture, she is also stupid enough to pose for photos while committing these crimes.

This 'scapegoat' excuse is about as contrived and bogus as they come.
 
SlamClick
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RE: (Iraq Pris. Abuse) Is She A Scapegoat?

Sat May 08, 2004 11:13 pm

Bananas in the tailpipe? Couldn't tell, the pictures were blurry.

It was terrible and these people and perhaps others will get a court-martial but I'd still rather take my chances as an Iraqi in custody of the US Army than an American in custody of Iraqis.


Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
LHMark
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RE: (Iraq Pris. Abuse) Is She A Scapegoat?

Sun May 09, 2004 12:30 am

N79969 just stated why it doesn't matter if she's a scapegoat.

RULE #1 to never be a scapegoat: DON'T POSE IN FRONT OF YOUR CRIME WITH A DOPEY-ASS GRIN ON YOUR FACE!
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
Adria
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RE: (Iraq Pris. Abuse) Is She A Scapegoat?

Mon May 10, 2004 5:55 am

Hopefully this will open the eyes of the American people because they are the only one who can stop this useless war
 
JeffM
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RE: (Iraq Pris. Abuse) Is She A Scapegoat?

Mon May 10, 2004 7:00 am

"...they are the only one who can stop this useless war.."

LOL how wrong can you be.. It would have ended long ago if those Iraqi jerks (rebels) had quit blowing up and shooting at the soldiers....

And your right by saying it is useless, they can't possibly think they will win?
 
N6376M
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RE: (Iraq Pris. Abuse) Is She A Scapegoat?

Tue May 11, 2004 3:12 am

She was responsible for her own actions and she is being used as a scapegoat.

The court martial will be a farce because the outcome is already know. Guilty.

Can anyone imagine the geopolitical ramifications of her (or any of her compatriots) being found not guilty. It will make the Rodney King riots look like a walk in the park.

The notion of command responsibility has gone completely out the window in this country - be it Rumsfeld, Ken Lay, Dennis Kozlowski, Martha Stewart or anyone else. If you are in a command position you should bear responsibility.

-76M
 
Klaus
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RE: (Iraq Pris. Abuse) Is She A Scapegoat?

Tue May 11, 2004 4:13 am

There is no more possibility of denial that torture and humiliation in Iraq were both widespread and systematic and that the american authorities had knowledge about it for a full year.

So the low-ranking soldiers paraded as individual perpetrators certainly bear their own share of the guilt, but this is a direct consequence of the way the Iraq invasion was prepared, sold to the american public and executed by the civilian and military leadership.

Just look at how many americans still falsely believe that Iraq had been behind 9-11 and you don´t have to wonder how you´d get "normal americans" to do what they´ve done. It wouldn´t even take that much; You just need to nudge them forward with the example of Guantanamo and the "understanding" that the leadership is expecting results by any means. That and a lack of oversight, and your ready-made disaster is prepared...
 
cptkrell
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RE: (Iraq Pris. Abuse) Is She A Scapegoat?

Tue May 11, 2004 5:10 am

I still think she quite enjoyed her participation in the photographs and am entirely sure that she won't be a "scapegoat" but prosecuted along with other participants up and down the military chain of command that were, if not at least participants, knew of and/or condoned the actions.

The actions constitute abuse and humility, but I have not yet seen proof of actual "torture" in the forms that I associate the word with. I should hope that actual "torture" was never committed...it would certainly degrade in the eyes of the world and here at home much of the humanitarian values the U.S. attempts to stand for and address. Even if the worse is exposed to be true, it would degrade but certainly NOT condemn ALL U.S. and other coalition forces, just as the WTC attacks should not condemn ALL other Arabic peoples, or the bad actions of certain police officers should not condemn ALL other officers who serve proudly and at great personal risk to uphold the law. Regards...Jack
all best; jack
 
galaxy5
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RE: (Iraq Pris. Abuse) Is She A Scapegoat?

Tue May 11, 2004 5:13 am

i doubt very much that she will see a Muslim court, besides SOFA will be used and she will be prosecuted under the UCMJ. No American soldier should be tried under the Arab or Muslim court system, if we arent even good enough to enter their temples or visit their holy sites why should we be good enough to be covered by their laws.
"damn, I didnt know prince could Ball like that" - Charlie Murphy
 
Stratofish
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RE: (Iraq Pris. Abuse) Is She A Scapegoat?

Tue May 11, 2004 5:50 am

Whatever she gets, I feel sotty of that (unborn) child of hers.
A different kind of a famous mom he/she will have.
And scapegoat or not, how dumb must one be to smile into a camera while commiting those crimes? She seemed to enjoy herself being at "the wrong place at the wrong time..."
The Metro might be the Sub(optimal)way
 
Adria
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RE: (Iraq Pris. Abuse) Is She A Scapegoat?

Tue May 11, 2004 6:07 am

LOL how wrong can you be.. It would have ended long ago if those Iraqi jerks (rebels) had quit blowing up and shooting at the soldiers....

And your right by saying it is useless, they can't possibly think they will win?............how wrong can YOU be!.....If you'll watch to much CNN that you don't get the real picture. You can send 100000+ American solders and there won't be peace
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: (Iraq Pris. Abuse) Is She A Scapegoat?

Tue May 11, 2004 6:50 am

Stratofish,

Have you heard about Ilse Koch of Buchenwald fame?

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
Stratofish
Posts: 1033
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2001 6:38 am

RE: (Iraq Pris. Abuse) Is She A Scapegoat?

Tue May 11, 2004 7:04 am

Have heard of her, but I don't know what you wanna tell me.
f
i
l
l
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The Metro might be the Sub(optimal)way
 
Russophile
Posts: 1304
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RE: (Iraq Pris. Abuse) Is She A Scapegoat?

Tue May 11, 2004 8:26 am

LOL how wrong can you be.. It would have ended long ago if those Iraqi jerks (rebels) had quit blowing up and shooting at the soldiers....

LOL how wrong can you be.. It would never have started if those American jerks (invaders) had quit defying international laws and starting wars based on lies in the first place  Insane  Insane  Insane

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