N754PR
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America In Way Over Its Head

Thu May 13, 2004 10:16 am

How many of you US based users have seen the light and noticed your government is in WAY OVER ITS HEAD in Iraq? Do you think Bush will ever accept this or just continue to get hundreds of American citizens (and others) killed? Not to mention the Billions being pumped down the drain?
Bush, your a sad, sad man.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: America In Way Over Its Head

Thu May 13, 2004 10:18 am

 Insane
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
ArmitageShanks
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RE: America In Way Over Its Head

Thu May 13, 2004 10:20 am

 Yeah sure Yawn........ next subject, please.
 
solarix
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RE: America In Way Over Its Head

Thu May 13, 2004 2:53 pm

Woah. Another Iraq posting.  Insane
Whats done is done. There is nothing we can do except finish the job at this point. Either that or we let the country drop into civil war and chaos. Personally I could care less as the whole thing sickens me.
Bong Hits 4 Jesus
 
DLKAPA
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RE: America In Way Over Its Head

Thu May 13, 2004 3:07 pm

"Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it."

And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
diamond
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RE: America In Way Over Its Head

Thu May 13, 2004 3:22 pm

Being "in over our head" is not the same thing as "Whats done is done". It doesn't matter whether you are for the war or against it. Now that we are there - we ARE in over our heads.

We don't have a clear strategy to create a Democracy OR to exit the country. Even Bush's fellow Republicans are voicing their concern.

Turning the country over to Iraq on 6/30 will either not happen at all or it will be a complete sham.

It was reported today that our own army is running out of bullets and having to import them from Israel.

source: http://www.dailystar.com/dailystar/news/21194.php


Blank.
 
mark777300
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RE: America In Way Over Its Head

Thu May 13, 2004 3:40 pm

I said it before, and I will say it again, we should have never gone to Iraq. This was a personal thing with Bush, and of course, the oil. But what do we do know? we made a mess, who's gonna clean it? Us of course, with my good ol wonderful tax dollars. What happened to Bin Laden?? Did we forget that we were suppose to go after him and his goons?
 
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Aaron747
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RE: America In Way Over Its Head

Thu May 13, 2004 4:25 pm

We are definitely in over our heads - but what f*cking choice do we have? These animals will keep coming at us regardless of what we do or don't do.

Iraq itself is proving to be a wholesale mistake, however. We have mismanaged things royally thus far by both underestimating the gravity of the task and overestimating the realistic possibilities of installing democracy in a part of the world nowhere near f*cking ready for it.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
KROC
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RE: America In Way Over Its Head

Thu May 13, 2004 7:41 pm

We are not in over our heads, but its time to stop tying the military's hands. If we are going to be over there, then its time to use the military in a proficient manner and get things locked down.
 
777236ER
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RE: America In Way Over Its Head

Thu May 13, 2004 7:52 pm

If we are going to be over there, then its time to use the military in a proficient manner and get things locked down.

That's been going on for more than a year, and look how bad the situation is. Surely what's needed now is INTERNATIONAL support, and UN help with peace keepers?

All it takes is to ask.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
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scbriml
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RE: America In Way Over Its Head

Thu May 13, 2004 7:55 pm

We are not in over our heads, but its time to stop tying the military's hands. If we are going to be over there, then its time to use the military in a proficient manner and get things locked down.

I would tend to agree, but I'm afraid the 'message' coming from the US government is as confused as hell. Are we (US and its allies) in there to liberate the oppressed Iraqis, or as an army of occupation?

If the former, then using the Army and Marines as policemen isn't going to work - they're not trained for it (the abuse issue is just an example, and I'm not digging at the US on this, it seems, sadly, that the Brits are playing that game too).

If the latter, then yes, the military needs to be let of the leash to do what they can do. Personally, I fear for the long-term consequences. It might be possible to clean out the rebels in a few months, but could easily create a seed-bed of future anti-west hatred.

The most worrying aspect is that it seems as though the US government doesn't have any idea what to do. I don't see how on earth they can hand over power on their stated deadline. They are likely damned if they do, damned if they don't.

It's a big mess. If not over their heads yet, they could easily become so.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
KROC
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RE: America In Way Over Its Head

Thu May 13, 2004 7:55 pm

You mean to tell me, that the American Military, with its full capabilities (not even going the nuclear route) cannot handle things in Iraq? Sorry slugger, but the military is not being used correctly or as well as it should be in Iraq.
 
worldoftui
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RE: America In Way Over Its Head

Thu May 13, 2004 8:09 pm

Just wanted to point out that it is not JUST the Americans that may be in over their heads. There a people from a lot of countries who are currently risking their lives in Iraq.

Many of the countries who helped to liberate Iraq initially are now struggling with justifying their actions in the beginning, and their continued presence in Iraq. Spain may be the first of several to go.
Prime Minister (President  Big grin ) Blair had, and will continue to have a tough time over his actions. It may well cost him his leadership.

Anyway, back to the point. The alliance does not seem to have a clear strategy for exit, which to me, seems to be the most worrying thing.

Don't think that "in over your head" is the right phrase. But I certainly think that the coalition has vastly under-estimated the scale of the task. Also, did they really think that just because Sadam was out of the way, that the hundreds of thousands of his supporters would go too?

Mark

EDIT - Apologies. Just re-read the initial post. Sorry  Smile

[Edited 2004-05-13 13:10:36]
 
galaxy5
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RE: America In Way Over Its Head

Thu May 13, 2004 9:00 pm

If we are going to be over there, then its time to use the military in a proficient manner and get things locked down.

That's been going on for more than a year, and look how bad the situation is. Surely what's needed now is INTERNATIONAL support, and UN help with peace keepers?

All it takes is to ask.


Uh huh. The UN peacekeepers are sooooo well known for dealing with violence, yeah that's a great idea. All they ever do is stand by and wait for the violence to end, even if it means they let a bunch of their Peace Keeping troops get slaughtered, What are they gonna do every time a bomb goes off over there, are they just gonna withdraw like they always do.

As for the military being in over its head, no I don't think that Iraq is beyond the capabilities of the US military, but you guys always stating "There isn't a solid exit strategy, There isn't a rigid war plan" duh, there never is a set in stone rigid war plan, show me a war or military action were every outcome was known and things went 100% buy some plan drawn up 1 year, 6 months or even a week ago. War and combat are very dynamic, you don't just follow some cue cards. We will have an exit from Iraq when things are more or less right and in our and the Iraqis favor. That "there is no exit strategy" is merely a political talking point. And neither side is innocent from using it.





"damn, I didnt know prince could Ball like that" - Charlie Murphy
 
sabenapilot
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RE: America In Way Over Its Head

Thu May 13, 2004 9:30 pm

Galaxy5,

I don't think that Iraq is beyond the capabilities of the US military

Well, I should hope not, because that would be a very disturbing thing for the US which has an army supposed to be able to fight 2 large scale wars and 2 minor scale conflicts at the same time...

Anyway, the aim of this invasion was not to occupy Iraq, suppress the local population, strip them of the very few liberties they enjoyed under Saddam, install a US military backed regime, use martial law, etc... but to free Iraq, give it a stable democratic government, see it prosper and pull out your troops by 6/30...
Oh, and wait a second... yes that's right, there was something else.. Hum, what was it? Oh, it must have been those WMD the US was going to deal with...

Anyway, you also say:

War and combat are very dynamic

I agree 100%, but wasn't the MISSION ACCOMPLISHED, a long time ago?
Strange to have you commander in chief saying this, yet have over 100,000 troops engaged in combat and even an open war 6 months later...

[Edited 2004-05-13 14:33:07]
 
galaxy5
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RE: America In Way Over Its Head

Thu May 13, 2004 9:34 pm

Yes major combat operations were accomplished.

Whats your point. Oh i guess we should have just wound things up and left 24 hrs after that.
"damn, I didnt know prince could Ball like that" - Charlie Murphy
 
sabenapilot
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RE: America In Way Over Its Head

Thu May 13, 2004 10:11 pm

Alpha1,

Why shouldn't we ask the UN for help?

Good idea, but do you really think the permanent members of the UN are standing by, waiting for your president to send his Secretary of State with a draft resolution to the Security Council, have it voted asap and then to commit hundreds of thousands of their troops to Iraq, just like that?

If things would be that simple, that would indeed be a very good way out which might lead to success. The problem with it is however, this administration openly, publicly and repeatedly attacked, insulted and humiliated not less than 3 permanent members of the security Council as well as many other member states, so these will want to present the bill to Washington somehow... Maybe the Chinese and Russians are willing to forget about the arrogant comments of Rumsfeld, Cheney and Bush, but is a public secret the French President is not willing to let rest the very painful comment that France and Germany are just old Europe and thus irrelevant... It will take a lot more than just saying 'I am sorry and I take responsibility' on TV to heal that... The US will have to swallow it's pride and accept a public humiliation too... However, I do not see President Bush himself come to the UN and state the US started the war in Iraq on wrong facts, that he made a mess of it, does not know what to do any further and begs for help... Maybe a regime change in Washington would be a quicker and better way out of this mess?

EDIT: seems this is in reply to a post which got deleted...




[Edited 2004-05-13 15:12:26]
 
Alpha 1
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RE: America In Way Over Its Head

Thu May 13, 2004 10:23 pm

..but the military is not being used correctly or as well as it should be in Iraq.

Being against the war, I can say that I don't think we were over our heads, but as KROC alluded to, I think political considerations, just like in Vietnam,are interfering with how the military operation is being waged.

In the '91 Gulf War, Colin Powell, head of the JCS, said that if you're going to go to war, you give the troops all they need, and you go in with overwhelming superiority in numbers. We invaded Iraq and Kuwait, with about a half million men, mostly Americans, to simply drive Iraq from Kuwait. Yet here, in 2003/04, in trying to invade a country, and also OCCUPY it, we had what? 180,000 troops, at most, in theater, actually on the ground. Never mind that Saudi and Turkey didn't give us permission to use them as staging areas, are you telling me we couldn't have put in 300,000 troops? 180,000 may have been sufficient for the assult, but it certainly wasn't sufficient for occupation AND continued fighting, which is what we fact now.

It means one of two things-either the Administration miscalculated on how long they thought we'd need to occupy Iraq (which I think is what it is), or they simply made a political decision, for domestic consumption, not to put as many soldiers as they could have on the ground.

So more troops are needed. But where are they to come from? Bush doesn't seem ready to commit a lot more troops.

Uh huh. The UN peacekeepers are sooooo well known for dealing with violence, yeah that's a great idea.

Cut out the anti-foreigner stuff, Galaxy5. Why shouldn't we ask the UN for help? Why not send UN forces into areas that are not a threat, and have a semblance of peace in them, while U.S. and Coalition forces can concentrate on finishing the combat portion of the operation. The sooner we can do that, the sooner our men and women can get home.

Your pride is I think exactly the same pride Bush is showning, and all it's doing is dragging out this war far beyond how long it should have done. We're beyond trying to be stubborn, and telling the world to go fuck itself. Swallow our pride, ask for assistance, and let's finish this mess and get our troops home as soon as we can.
 
777236ER
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RE: America In Way Over Its Head

Thu May 13, 2004 10:30 pm

Galaxy5, even if UN peacekeepers do a bad job, it'll probably be better than the mess that a lot of the place is in now.

All it'd take is George Bush standing in front of the UN, admitting he was wrong, asking for help, and before long a multilateral peacekeeping force would be in Iraq, not only helping directly, but showing the Iraqis that the WORLD is there to try and help THEM rebuild their country - and it's not just the big bad US trying to occupy their country.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
galaxy5
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RE: America In Way Over Its Head

Thu May 13, 2004 10:36 pm

That's a better post Alpha, see you didn't have to resort to name calling to get your point across.

I still disagree with it however. The UN was in Iraq if you remember, but they pulled out very shortly, if you recall it only took a single event, 1 car bomb and they withdrew like a cat on fire. As for pride, yes I have pride, whets wrong with having pride, its better than having no pride at all and wanting to quit when things get tough, or wanting everyone else to finish what you started. If you have no pride I guess that's the way you want things done. The UN could come to Iraq but they want total autonomy and full control of the Government and military operations, and I don't think that's a very good idea , especially with the UNs track record, the US military doesn't want to be under UN control and shouldn't be, but no-one is stopping them from coming back to assist, except those countries that are spiteful and refuse to allow it.
"damn, I didnt know prince could Ball like that" - Charlie Murphy
 
sabenapilot
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RE: America In Way Over Its Head

Thu May 13, 2004 10:37 pm

777236ER

admitting he was wrong

That's exactly what it takes, indeed. However, for a president running for re-election and in an election year, this is highly unlikely, don't you think?

But then, maybe President Bush is a great leader after all and understands that the success of this operation in Iraq, the lives of his troops and the future of the middle east are more important than his own political carrier...
 Yeah sure

 
Alpha 1
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RE: America In Way Over Its Head

Thu May 13, 2004 10:40 pm

So, you'll just let us go along, with this insufficient force, while more Americans get killed, and the war drags on. Is that what you want? I don't. I want our men and women home. Most of them have served honorably and with professionalism, and many in the Guard have had their tours extended while families wait at home. It's time for us to swallow a little pride, and do the right thing, and ask for ASSISTANCE in helping to finish the job up, making Iraq as safe as possible, then leaving the future of Iraq to Iraqi's-which we should have done in the first place, and not even started this war.
 
KROC
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RE: America In Way Over Its Head

Thu May 13, 2004 10:41 pm

Well, I should hope not, because that would be a very disturbing thing for the US which has an army supposed to be able to fight 2 large scale wars and 2 minor scale conflicts at the same time...

Not sure where you are getting your figures from, but the U.S. Military is built to handle 2 different war on 2 different fronts. Not 2 large scale wats and 2 minor conflicts as well.

Adding to what Alpha 1 said as well, in 1998 when I was stationed at Hunter Army Air Field, Saddam was acting up again and showing signs of taking over Kuwait again. The 3rd ID from Ft. Stewart and Hunter AAF were deployed in mass numbers. I believe that from Stewart and other Posts/Bases/Camps that 200-250,000 men were deployed just to deter Saddam. It wasn't long after that, the troops started coming back home and Saddam was stopped again. Now, like Alpha mentioned, we have maybe 200,000 troops to not only fight the war but to keep order as well? And trust me, thats more than enough, IF they could do their job without political interference.
 
worldoftui
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RE: America In Way Over Its Head

Thu May 13, 2004 10:45 pm

The UN has peacekeepers, not peacemakers. They can show a presence and help to keep law and order, but the way things are at the moment, I doubt whether their presence is appropriate to the amount of violence and fighting that is going on.

My view is that the sooner the coalition gets out and the sooner the UN goes in, the better. How we get to that point from here is another matter.

Mark
 
galaxy5
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RE: America In Way Over Its Head

Thu May 13, 2004 10:47 pm

So, you'll just let us go along, with this insufficient force, while more Americans get killed, and the war drags on. Is that what you want?

Yeah Alpha that's what I want.

Do you not read, do you not watch the news, or is it only selective hearing, the US has welcomed UN support, however the UN is unwilling to help unless they are in total control and only under their terms. Well if you want the US to be controlled by the UN I guess that fine for you, but its not for most of the military.
"damn, I didnt know prince could Ball like that" - Charlie Murphy
 
Alpha 1
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RE: America In Way Over Its Head

Thu May 13, 2004 11:00 pm

Well if you want the US to be controlled by the UN I guess that fine for you, but its not for most of the military.

Give me a break. The far-right fear of the UN taking "control" of the U.S. What a load of rubbish. As I said, make it a joint command-the U.S. retains command in Baghdad, and in area's still considered "hot", and the U.N. can take some of the policing away from U.S. troops in areas that are not still in a war situation, and those U.S. troops freed up can help end this conflict that much faster.

The far-right's paranoia of the UN is, sadly, just a screen for anti-foreigner attitudes, and, in this case, it's a way to see this war dragged out far beyond what it should be. Hell, it's already been dragged out far beyond where it should have gone by the arrogance and mismanagement of the Administration in fighting it.
 
worldoftui
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RE: America In Way Over Its Head

Thu May 13, 2004 11:19 pm

Alpha1

Give me a break. The far-right fear of the UN taking "control" of the U.S. What a load of rubbish. As I said, make it a joint command-the U.S. retains command in Baghdad, and in area's still considered "hot", and the U.N. can take some of the policing away from U.S. troops in areas that are not still in a war situation, and those U.S. troops freed up can help end this conflict that much faster.

The far-right's paranoia of the UN is, sadly, just a screen for anti-foreigner attitudes, and, in this case, it's a way to see this war dragged out far beyond what it should be. Hell, it's already been dragged out far beyond where it should have gone by the arrogance and mismanagement of the Administration in fighting it.


Totally agree with ya

The US, and the UK, do not welcome UN support, on this issue at least. The arrogance shown to the UN by the US before the war started was incredible - remember the report on WMD having to go to the US gov't before the UN - what a joke.

They have their own reasons for their continued presence. We follow the US, of course, (probably always will), but now is the time I think to say that enough is enough. The force is viewed as a unilateral action by the USA, or a best bilateral. Until there can be a wider range of nations supporting the reconstruction and stabilisation of Iraq, we are likely to see more incidents like the execution on the internet.

But until the Bush actually relaxes the US stance on their vision of a rebuilt country, and thinks beyond contracts for his friends companies, there can never be a major UN presence, and the Iraqi people will continue to consider themselves as an occupied state.

Mark
 
airplay
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RE: America In Way Over Its Head

Fri May 14, 2004 12:38 am

We are definitely in over our heads - but what f*cking choice do we have? These animals will keep coming at us regardless of what we do or don't do.

Iraq didn’t come after the US. There is still no definitive tie between Iraq and the 9/11 attacks. There are still (and never will be) no weapons of mass destruction found in Iraq or any evidence of imminent threat to the US from Iraq.

Somewhere I suspect there are Iraqis calling Americans “animals” who “keep coming at us regardless what we do or don’t do” and they are somewhat correct.

KROC’s suggestion that the US military is not being used “correctly” indicates that what he is really thinking (in my opinion) is that the American brand of Democracy isn’t being pushed down Iraq’s throat forcibly enough. If you give the military the green light to kill, imprison, or expel everyone who opposes the occupation then you won’t have much of Iraq left to salvage And that would be the extreme act of aggression.

I wouldn’t say the US is in over their heads. I would say they never should have gone to Iraq in the first place and all they have done is further infuriate the Arab world. Pretty much anything the US does in this conflict just makes things worse whether you look at it from Iraq’s perspective, or the average Americans perspective, or from the US’s allies and enemies.

So I guess I agree with KROC….the US military is being used incorrectly. It should go home.
 
777236ER
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RE: America In Way Over Its Head

Fri May 14, 2004 1:23 am

The US, and the UK, do not welcome UN support, on this issue at least. The arrogance shown to the UN by the US before the war started was incredible - remember the report on WMD having to go to the US gov't before the UN - what a joke.

On the contry, I think that Tony Blair needs UN peacekeepers in Iraq to win the next election.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
worldoftui
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RE: America In Way Over Its Head

Fri May 14, 2004 1:28 am

777236ER

On the contry, I think that Tony Blair needs UN peacekeepers in Iraq to win the next election.

Now that the election is coming up, I am inclined to agree with you. Funny that he didn't seem as bothered earlier in his term.

Mark
 
KROC
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RE: America In Way Over Its Head

Fri May 14, 2004 1:43 am

KROC’s suggestion that the US military is not being used “correctly” indicates that what he is really thinking (in my opinion) is that the American brand of Democracy isn’t being pushed down Iraq’s throat forcibly enough. If you give the military the green light to kill, imprison, or expel everyone who opposes the occupation then you won’t have much of Iraq left to salvage And that would be the extreme act of aggression.

Don't put words into my mouth allstar. My problem with the way this is going is this. I do not care about forcable American Democracy as you referred to it as, but if the military is going to be over there. If there is going to be a war going on, then why on earth am I reading about fire fights with squads of men against the Iraqi's and such? Throw a Batallion out there. Why do the Marines lay seige on a city for a couple of weeks, but do not take it and kill off the resistance? Because they can do it? Not a chance, but because the logistics of this war is a joke, and because the political backswinging is handcuffing the worlds most capable military.
 
174thfwff
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RE: America In Way Over Its Head

Fri May 14, 2004 1:55 am

I think the military is working correctly, however a few things...
A) Media blows out of proportion the number of US military deaths. Yes, this is very important, however how many of the bad guys have we got in relation to how many of our guys got hurt.
B) We are dealing with a new type of enemy. They aren't in uniform fighting on the front lines. They are men, women, and children hiding in houses, mosques, schools. A friend of mine went over to Iraq and he was in awe how many minors (under 16) were fighting in Iraq. He said he had no choice but to kill those members, but not with out great strain on him and his mental status.
Brooklyn, Queens, Manhattan, Staten, Uptown, what now? Lets make it happen.
 
GDB
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RE: America In Way Over Its Head

Fri May 14, 2004 2:01 am

The US military always had the gloves off, (what that lame old excuse again?)
What do you call using F-16s, M1 tanks, artillery in a built up area full of civilians just because some insurgents are using infantry weapons and explosive devices, all that has done is swell the ranks of the insurgents.
People get angry when they see piles of civilian bodies.
And lets not forget why the insurgency has got so bad, the US (due to Rumsfeld) never had enough troops to secure the place once Saddam fell, then some very heavy handed operations, like simply sweeping anyone off the streets US troops happened to come across, and Falluja kicked off big time after the US shot and killed 14 demonstrators last year.

Still think it's just Saddam loyalists with some Al-Queda or general jhadi infiltration?
Maybe at first, not any more.
After all, the Saddam loyalists were supposed to melt away after he got captured.
Do not underestimate the effects on Muslim society of those prison pics either.

Funny how Falluja has quietened down since the US resorted to sending in Iraqi police with a former regime general in charge, then again, others in the coalition (with experience of successful counter insurgency efforts) urged against the wholesale disbanding of the Iraqi army last year, (remember the Iraqi army last year literally did not fight, what resistance there was to the invasion was almost entirely Saddam militia, not the regular army.

Of course the think tank warriors of the Washington Neo Cons knew best.

Interesting to hear that a popular film now showing amongst the US military top brass is 'The Battle Of Algiers', a seminal account of how France lost that colony, in part because they used the tactics the US has been employing in Iraq.
Should have watched it last year, or just listen a bit more to those who have some idea of how to handle an insurgency.
I suspect the military might be receptive, try getting it past Rumsfeld and his gang though!

 
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scbriml
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RE: America In Way Over Its Head

Fri May 14, 2004 3:49 am

A) Media blows out of proportion the number of US military deaths. Yes, this is very important, however how many of the bad guys have we got in relation to how many of our guys got hurt.

Unfortunately, the voters at home do care about the number of US dead (they should also care about the number of innocent Iraqi dead as well, but that doesn't seem to bother many people  Sad)

The timing is starting to get bad for Bush - I just can't see how power can be handed over on time. Even if it is, the US troops are going to be there, still being killed, for some time yet. I suspect the Bush campaign has a number of 'acceptable' US deaths in mind by the time of the election. More than that number may mean increasing resistance at home, and a difficult election. I wonder what that number is?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
zrb2
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RE: America In Way Over Its Head

Fri May 14, 2004 4:29 am

Like it or not the U.S military has a license to kill RIGHT NOW in Iraq. They need to use it effectively and then get the hell out. So many radical militants/extremists have flocked to Iraq right now (from all over the middle east) it's like bees to the honeycomb. It's the perfect opportunity to suck them into one area and take a bunch out. Hopefully they can do that with minimal civilian casualties but as we know with the PLO and such, they like to encamp themselves in civilian areas for cover and media manipulation when possible (i.e. civilians killed). Once the US leaves Iraq, it will be difficult to just come back in and start blasting away. They need to use this opportunity now and take care of their business. I don't need to read about every detail in the news or on CNN. The US will never win the media campaign anyway.

I see some Canadian posters on A.Net who are seemingly always criticizing the US and standing up for the bad people. I must say, I am very disappointed in the reaction from our friendly, northern border neighbors. I watch the news from Canada and it is tremendously slanted against the United States. I've seen footage from months ago, passed off on Canadian TV as if it happened yesterday. I look at the CBC website and other news sources and they have front page special sections and photo gallery's about the prison abuses and editorials slamming everything about the US but you can't find a peep about the beheading unless you dig deep and maybe find a sentence. I mean if Canadians want to stay out of the conflict then fine, but the news media up there is just killing the US in their reporting. I guarantee if the Jihad ever reaches North America, the terrorists would take just as much pleasure in killing a "Westernized" Canadian person as anyone in the US. Alot of US servicemen are dying over there to help protect the law abiding civilized world (including Canada)from these lunatics..
 
airplay
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RE: America In Way Over Its Head

Fri May 14, 2004 12:39 pm

I watch the news from Canada and it is tremendously slanted against the United States.

Thats because The Bush administration is (and was) wrong in entering Iraq. We knew it, and most of the world knew it. And now many Americans are starting to realize it.

I mean if Canadians want to stay out of the conflict then fine, but the news media up there is just killing the US in their reporting.

Stay out of the conflict? Who are you kidding. This Bush inspired idiocy is affecting Canadians in a very tangible way. Fuel prices are skyrocketing, its harder to travel abroad, our economy is taking a hit, and the US is creating more enemies every day who want to inflict harm just across the border.

I guarantee if the Jihad ever reaches North America, the terrorists would take just as much pleasure in killing a "Westernized" Canadian person as anyone in the US. Alot of US servicemen are dying over there to help protect the law abiding civilized world (including Canada)from these lunatics..

Not so. They know very well that Canadians are not the target. Furthermore, Bush is NOT protecting us or any other members of the "civilized" world. Bush is endagering us. And they are doing it in a very uncivilized way. It was a much safer world before the US invasion of Iraqi. Unfortunately many American A.netters can't see this.
 
BN747
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RE: America In Way Over Its Head

Fri May 14, 2004 6:15 pm

Totally in agreement Airplay,

The reason for the political indecision and it's partner - military might hamstrung by uncertainty - is because 'again' this was a bad idea with no end. A few of us saw it a mile way.. others are just figuring it out now. But anyone with any semblance of global perspective saw that this was a very bad idea. But Dubya for some unknown reason ( I say it's the oil.. others say it ain't) went after it like the dumb kid who can't resist poking a beehive with a stick -- expecting jars of honey.

Now he can't figure out how to get out of this mess.

The UN.. hell if I were Kofi Annan.. I wouldn't touch Iraq without full control either! As many have said 'the UN aren't the best fighting force -- they aren't suppose to be.. the are about world unity... not aggression in any way... that's why any UN force collapses like a deck of cards at the 1st shot! It's like sending in the boy scouts. But it doesn't matter.. whoever ends up incontrol.. he'll just be Saddam in a new suit.. nothing more and we'll be back at square one. Except someone will be reaping huge oil dividends.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: America In Way Over Its Head

Fri May 14, 2004 11:24 pm

Bush treated Iraq like a dog chasing a car. He caught it but now has no idea what to do with it.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: America In Way Over Its Head

Fri May 14, 2004 11:52 pm

So many radical militants/extremists have flocked to Iraq right now (from all over the middle east) it's like bees to the honeycomb.

Gee, and I thought we went to war in Iraq was because Saddam was in bed with Al Qaeda? Now, we find out, we're the ones letting Al Qaeda into Iraq. Nice of us, isn't it?  Big grin

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