planespotting
Posts: 3026
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 4:54 am

Any Vegans Or Vegetarians Here?

Sat May 15, 2004 10:22 am

I recently started a Vegan diet. I haven' really eaten any dairy since december, so it just seemed natural to go to the no animal products at all. I know to a lot of you it probably sounds crazy, but i really (right now) have no desire to eat products from some of the places and treatments that are put through by the beef/pork/chicken/dairy industry in the united states. I don't preach to people who do eat meat, it's just my decision right now and i try not to force my beliefs on others. just seeing if there are any others like me out there
Do you like movies about gladiators?
 
Klaus
Posts: 20649
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Any Vegans Or Vegetarians Here?

Sat May 15, 2004 10:44 am

I´m only "mostly vegetarian", certainly not vegan; For all I know, a strictly vegan diet is difficult to keep up without developing deficiencies in the long run. For small children, it can even be dangerous.

My reasons for cutting back on meat are not entirely unlike yours, but maybe you´re better off by buying organically grown products... Even meat and dairy products are produced under much better conditions than the cheap industrial ones....
 
keno
Posts: 1809
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 5:46 pm

RE: Any Vegans Or Vegetarians Here?

Sat May 15, 2004 10:45 am

places and treatments that are put through by the beef/pork/chicken/dairy industry in the united states

I joined a student exchange programme in switzerland few years ago and one of my housemates was an american vegetarian. She gave the exact reason as you did about american food industry and avoids eating meat product while in the US. Strangely, she had no problem eating meat in switzerland because she's very confident of the quality.
 
teahan
Posts: 4993
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 1999 11:18 pm

RE: Any Vegans Or Vegetarians Here?

Sat May 15, 2004 11:03 am

A lacto Vegetarian (meaning I eat dairy products but not eggs) and been like that for a good few years now. A gradual process, started by eliminating beef during the mad-cow crisis in Europe and progressed from there. The majority of people accept and move on to think about something else, the people who don't I avoid. Some people say it complicates your life, I have found the exact opposite. I certainly do not preach to people about my choice so I don't think expecting the same respect in return is too much to ask.

Finally: perhaps we could avoid turning this topic into a vegetarian vs. meat-eater war, as other similar topics have in passed.

Jeremiah


[Edited 2004-05-15 04:10:18]
Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
 
planespotting
Posts: 3026
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 4:54 am

RE: Any Vegans Or Vegetarians Here?

Sat May 15, 2004 11:15 am

Actually, a vegan diet, if planned properly, is much more healthy than a diet with animal products. Most people who have a diet that contain a large amount of animal products don't plan because they expect to get relatively all the nutrients they need from their diet. A vegan diet if not done properly can be just as dangerous as a diet with animal products. I take supplements, also i usually plan what i am going to eat. Pasta and rice for carbs, leafy greens for calcium, peanuts, tofu and legumes for protein. Fortified soy milk is also good for an assortment of nutrients. Most meat eaters consume way too much protein, and that in turn forces most of the decent carbs and nutrients in their diet out (of their body~unusable).
Do you like movies about gladiators?
 
lehpron
Posts: 6846
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 3:42 am

RE: Any Vegans Or Vegetarians Here?

Sat May 15, 2004 3:52 pm

Provided the difference between the two meant anything to anyone; I am, by culture and religion mainly. I wonder however, those who choose not to for reasons other than health or tradition, are they brain-dead? Eating meat has likely been part of their normal diet, just quitting for selfish reasons and not considering the affect of one's body is counter-productive. If they wanna try something like that, they should watch their stool over the next few weeks, or eat alternatives real fast.

Sorry if that may have sounded offensive Planespotting, I was speaking in general.  Big grin

We get our protein from mainly lentils and beans (Inidans don't do tofu, that's an oriental thing), I works for me. Heck my bro balloned up last year cuz all he ate was spaghetti and Ragu sauce for months. Plus he works out too so there you go.

[Edited 2004-05-15 08:59:18]
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
rsmith6621a
Posts: 1507
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 2:21 pm

RE: Any Vegans Or Vegetarians Here?

Sat May 15, 2004 4:14 pm



Its funny about the Vegan people........They care more about the life of a brainless CHICKEN and less about the life of a unborn child.....and that goes for Rep and Dem Vegans.....
Did You Ever Think Freedom Could Be this Bad
 
lehpron
Posts: 6846
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 3:42 am

RE: Any Vegans Or Vegetarians Here?

Sat May 15, 2004 4:18 pm

>> "They care more about the life of a brainless CHICKEN and less about the life of a unborn child.....and that goes for Rep and Dem Vegans....." <<

Rsmith6621a, you're making THREE dangerously ignorant assumptions without stating your reasoning, I advise against doing that again.  Angry



[Edited 2004-05-15 09:20:49]
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
rsmith6621a
Posts: 1507
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 2:21 pm

RE: Any Vegans Or Vegetarians Here?

Sat May 15, 2004 4:31 pm



Lehpron,

I have met the VEGAN parents of five of my daughters freind who are on both sides of the political fence. I have been in each of their homes and have sat on their leather couches and seen there collection of animal oil based make up on their vanitys in the bathroorms. In discussions with each of them they each support abortion and the womens right to choose....

They say that many other Vegan have the same viewpoint......I think there is a wrong priorty here.
Did You Ever Think Freedom Could Be this Bad
 
lehpron
Posts: 6846
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 3:42 am

RE: Any Vegans Or Vegetarians Here?

Sat May 15, 2004 5:10 pm

>> "They say that many other Vegan have the same viewpoint." <<

So from this, you think all vegans have the same viewpoint just because they claim 'many other vegans[s]' have this ideology? Are you gulible or opportunistic? Either way, that has got to be the purest possible bullshit dude, in fact all you can conclude from their tesimony is that ONLY those five sets of parents think that way, PERIOD, unless you have met their so-called 'many other vegans', I doubt you have the authority to make assumptions about people you have never met or spoke to like you did with them. Furthermore, I doubt they are in a position to make assumptions about other vegans so that you can them scoop up as the god-for-saken truth!

In any event, I fail to see how what is in their bathrooms and whatnot an issue. You may simply have this belief that if someone is vegan that they must believe in a number of 'this and that' in order to not be seen as hypocritical. How's that, accurate?
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
planespotting
Posts: 3026
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 4:54 am

RE: Any Vegans Or Vegetarians Here?

Sat May 15, 2004 6:07 pm

Practically, it is impossible to be a "true" vegan (that is, not doing ANYTHING to hurt your environment). Anything you do is going to have some effect on whatever enviroment you are in whether you live in the city or as a hermit in the woods. If you want to be truly environment and animal friendly, stop whatever you're doing right now, don't move, don't touch anything, and don't breathe.
Do you like movies about gladiators?
 
ushermittwoch
Posts: 2537
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 10:18 pm

RE: Any Vegans Or Vegetarians Here?

Sat May 15, 2004 7:26 pm

Planespotting, if a VEGAN diet would be so much better for humans, why did nature give us an omnivore set of teeth? Must be a reason behind that...
Anywho, if you want to live that way I respect it and if you can stay healthy, good for you.
I don't eat a lot of meat or animal products either. It's a money thing. I prefer to eat good quality meats (from properly held animals) and they are too expensive for a poor college student to eat regularly.
Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
lehpron
Posts: 6846
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 3:42 am

RE: Any Vegans Or Vegetarians Here?

Sat May 15, 2004 8:52 pm

>> "if a VEGAN diet would be so much better for humans, why did nature give us an omnivore set of teeth? Must be a reason behind that" <<

Note the word 'would' in this case, it's a personal thought and not definitive. Keep in minds that primitive humans ate meat, that was all they could eat as twigs and weeds didn't help. Intelligent humans (several hundreds of thousands of years down the line) realized they don't need meat, they can still have it, but the don't have to depend on it as we've been able to find/make other sources of whatever we need in suppliments, engineered grains, advanced farming, slaughter houses, ( Big grin )etc. Primitive humans would have been dumbfounded at what we've been able to accomplish, food wise.

Note the difference. Respect the difference.

And then there are those folks who use this 'primitiveness' as basis for argument against being veganistic.  Wink/being sarcastic
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
planespotting
Posts: 3026
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 4:54 am

RE: Any Vegans Or Vegetarians Here?

Sat May 15, 2004 10:10 pm

Yes humans are omnivores, and i would have no problem eating meat that i went out and captured and killed and all that fun stuff by myself. But where is the "primitiveness" in eating poultry from chickens that were raised with 10,000 other chickens, in eating beef from cows that were raised on a diet of corn feed so they would buck up and get fat so they would be nice and tasty for human consumption. Did you know that it takes 7lbs of grain to produce around 1 lb of edible beef? how innefficient is that? If all that grain/corn went to producing bread and other cheaply made food products think of all the other people in the world who'd be allowed to eat. I know this is somewhat an idealistic view but it makes sense. Too many resources are thrown into the beef, chicken and pork industy with not enough returns coming back from it.
Do you like movies about gladiators?
 
ushermittwoch
Posts: 2537
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 10:18 pm

RE: Any Vegans Or Vegetarians Here?

Sat May 15, 2004 10:26 pm

Well if you are talking about being ineffective, it takes a 20 to 1 ratio for a pound of chicken. Anyway, what do you want all the corn farmers to do? Get government money for nothing?
Try stopping the overproduction of grains before you go after the meat. At least that way not all of the grain gets wasted.
Think of it that way.

But I am glad that you consider everybody that does not hunt for his own meat primitive.
That's very wise.

Do you know that most of the money in the meat industry is made by a few big investors? With your government that you have at the moment, there will be a huge chance of them having to change their ways...NOT.

I see you're from Dubuque, nice place. At least the renovated downtown part.
My first and only time at the dog tracks there was fun, too.
Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
planespotting
Posts: 3026
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 4:54 am

RE: Any Vegans Or Vegetarians Here?

Sun May 16, 2004 3:36 pm

But where is the "primitiveness" in eating poultry

see what that means is that there is no "primitiveness" (yes i made up a word) in eating the way that most humans do. (meaning i did not call anyone "primitive")

Thank you also for the lesson in capitalism. See, i thought the majority of the people as a whole were the ones who would benefit from this sort of enterprise, it never occured to me that only a few wealthy people were the ones to ACTUALLY benefit from this activity (and all other ventures found in our capitalistic-quasi socialist form of government).

thank you also for the kind words regarding this wonderful city that i have less than a year left to live in (graduate in may of 05)
Do you like movies about gladiators?
 
ushermittwoch
Posts: 2537
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 10:18 pm

RE: Any Vegans Or Vegetarians Here?

Sun May 16, 2004 7:17 pm

Well I know where you are coming from though. It also sickens me to see all the food just dumped into the sea by the EU. It could just as well go to Africa or to needy poor people all over BUT people get paid to THROW it away. They wouldn't get money if they GAVE it away.
It is a bad system.
But as long as there is a lot of money to make in the agrobusiness, that's how it's gonna be. Sadly.
And the small farmers will disappear more and more.
Here's something you might like:
http://www.factoryfarming.com/

The two movies are really good.
Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
ben
Posts: 1369
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 1999 9:27 pm

RE: Any Vegans Or Vegetarians Here?

Sun May 16, 2004 8:25 pm

I don't call myself a vegetarian, but I haven't eaten meat for about 7 years (since I moved to the UK). However, I sometimes eat fish becuase I believe there are very good health benefits of doing it, especially with oily fish.

My diet is completely 'unplanned'. I just eat normal food and definitely don't go anywhere near fake meat like 'beanburgers' or that awful Quorn stuff. Nothing that tries to be like meat. I just eat good, normal food which doesn't contain meat. It's very easy to do and I always have lots of choice.

As for health, I have absolutely no problems and don't take other artificial supplements. I also hold a current Class 1 JAA medical. It can't be that bad.

Even though I choose not to eat meat, I will never ever tell someone else that they are wrong for doing it.

The thing that I am against (and the cartoons that Ushermittwoch linked to make the same point) is that factory farming is a function of the greed of large corporations.

It is not in the interests of any person or animal, except the company's shareholders - who are far-removed from the actual process and most know nothing of it.

I have seen comments on here before which go something like "if it tastes good and it's cheap I dont care how it came to be in my cheeseburger".

I will just say one thing. Causing animals to suffer needlessly is wrong. Sure if you want your cheeseburger you have to kill an animal. Fine. Just make sure it is done in a professional, quick and humaine way and don't make the animal suffer through life so it has characterisitcs which you value (ie. inducing anaemia in calves for veal etc).

It is this reasoning that has made the EU ban battery hens for egg production (starting at a specified time in the future, I can't remember when, but some countries like Germany are banning it sooner). There is at least one major supermarket which does not sell any non-free range eggs now - a step in the right direction.

Anyway, thanks for reading... I'm not trying to convert anyone. Just my opinion.

Ben
 
L.1011
Posts: 2164
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2001 7:46 am

RE: Any Vegans Or Vegetarians Here?

Mon May 17, 2004 12:41 am

Well I totally respect vegans and vegetarians. I don't support it at all for myself, I can't imagine life without burgers and ribs. But, for all of you vegans and vegetarians, just a tip. Free range means jack squat, at least in the United States. Free range can mean opening a coop door for 5 minutes a day into a cage thats 5 feet wider.
 
Qb001
Posts: 1923
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2000 12:42 am

RE: Any Vegans Or Vegetarians Here?

Mon May 17, 2004 5:45 am

From experience, vegetarians are...well...boring! And don't get me started on vegetarian girls in bed... The word boring is not strong enough. It's like driving a Buick; get the idea  Big grin

Anyway, I believe the whole premise behind vegetarianism to be somewhat flawed. A good diet is essentially a diversified diet of good products : a little bit of red meat, a little bit of white meat (poultry), fish, whole grain cereals (bread, pasta), dairy products (milk, cheese, yogurt), lots of fresh fruits and vegetable, lots of olive and canola oil. Even a little bit of wine. And cook it yourself; avoid processed food at all costs.

This is the diet we try to follow in my family. No overweight people here and everyone is pretty healthy. Remember : diversity, diversity, diversity...
Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.

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