Goose
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Roadside Bomb Contained Nerve Agent

Mon May 17, 2004 11:49 pm

BAGHDAD - U.S. forces in Iraq said on Monday they had found a bomb loaded with the nerve agent sarin gas.


Article from the CBC, one of the most anti-American news agencies on the face of the earth;

http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2004/05/17/world/iraq_gas040517
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L-188
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RE: Roadside Bomb Contained Nerve Agent

Mon May 17, 2004 11:54 pm

Nice,

Any of the no WMD people wish to comment?

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Alpha 1
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RE: Roadside Bomb Contained Nerve Agent

Tue May 18, 2004 12:00 am

Yes, it was probably brought in from outside Iraq, L-188, by the terrorists that we allowed in after our invasion.

If this is your "smoking gun", to justify the war, L-188, forget it. Too little, way too late. There is not pile of WMD that was being hidden. The war was fought over a lie.
 
Goose
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RE: Roadside Bomb Contained Nerve Agent

Tue May 18, 2004 12:01 am

More than likely, this article will be buried to never see the light of day; Like the story of the Marine winning the Navy Cross, or the story about how troops who crossed the Euphrates river during the "combat operations phase" of the war found traces of nerve and chemical agents diluted in the water, meaning that they were being dumped into the water upstream..... it just won't get entered into the public conciousness.
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b757300
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RE: Roadside Bomb Contained Nerve Agent

Tue May 18, 2004 12:02 am

Any of the no WMD people wish to comment?

I'll save them the trouble.

"It was old and left over from the Iran-Iraq War"

"It was just one shell, it doesn't mean Saddam had WMD's."

"It was produced by the 'glorious freedom fighters' to help defeat the infidels."

"It was planted by George Bush, the Mossad, and the CIA."

[Edited 2004-05-17 17:04:13]
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Goose
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RE: Roadside Bomb Contained Nerve Agent

Tue May 18, 2004 12:02 am

Yes, it was probably brought in from outside Iraq, L-188, by the terrorists that we allowed in after our invasion.

If that's the case, it's probably from Syria - where the expatriate Iraqi chemical weapon program is rumoured to be in full swing again......
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david b.
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RE: Roadside Bomb Contained Nerve Agent

Tue May 18, 2004 12:03 am

A old shell? Give me a break. There could be the same thing the US sold Iraq during the Iraq-Iran conflict. BTW: Nerve agents do not last for 12 years or more.It was most likely from some old storage locker back in the days.

[Edited 2004-05-17 17:04:31]
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zak
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RE: Roadside Bomb Contained Nerve Agent

Tue May 18, 2004 12:04 am

noone doubted that saddams regime did posses old wmd. be it a fridge of tubes with whatever stuff or a bunch of rusty warheads.

the point has always been that there is no imminent threat from iraq and the situation that would evolve, as correctly stated by the "anti war pussies", would be far worse then saddams not ready to use and old wanna be wmd that were buried somewhere.
nerve agents etc "max not safe to drink after a few years, but hardly a weapon anymore" to quote those unmovic bastards who were against the war anyway.
so yeah saddam didnt have WMD, only leftovers of WMD that were a) not usable anymore b) not a threat

i have yet to see proof that this is not the case. this shell changes nothing in regard to the validity of aboves train of thought. it must be hard to realize that the stupid tree huggers were right about the war  Smile
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Alpha 1
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RE: Roadside Bomb Contained Nerve Agent

Tue May 18, 2004 12:07 am

So now, Goose, L-188 and Mr. NeoNut are going to justify the entire war, billions of dollars and 800 American dead, on 1 shell?

How the mighty have fallen into desperation. If one shell is the best we can do, in over a year of searching, I can see where that one shell that has a limited dispersal range, was a clear and present danger, that triggered a war like this.

You guys are shameless.
 
cambrian
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RE: Roadside Bomb Contained Nerve Agent

Tue May 18, 2004 12:10 am

Any of the no WMD people wish to comment?

Yes, thanks for the kind offer.

We went to war in the UK on the pretense that we could have been attacked within 45 minutes.

The coalition have had the run of Iraq for more than a year. Nothing has been found- we were sold a pup.

This does not represent the finding of the stockpiles of WMD that we were promised. It could even originate from outside Iraq, or more likely, be a remnant from the Iran/ Iraq war- remind yourselves who sold these chemicals to Iraq in the first place.

We are all living in an Orwellian nightmare.
 
Klaus
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RE: Roadside Bomb Contained Nerve Agent

Tue May 18, 2004 12:35 am

If it were in fact a recently produced grenade, we´ll hear about it very soon.

But if that´s the case, why was there only a "minor amount" of the toxic agent?

I don´t know more about it, yet, but I´m really interested in these questions...
 
Goose
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RE: Roadside Bomb Contained Nerve Agent

Tue May 18, 2004 2:44 am

So now, Goose, L-188 and Mr. NeoNut are going to justify the entire war, billions of dollars and 800 American dead, on 1 shell?

I'm curious to know how much nerve agent in the hands of a murderous regime is acceptable for the international community, or, for you. I'm simply curious.... 1 shell? 10? 1000?

And just for reference, here's the Center for Disease Control page on Sarin;

http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/sarin/basics/facts.asp
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Roadside Bomb Contained Nerve Agent

Tue May 18, 2004 3:10 am

FoxNews is reporting that now a 2nd Sarin bomb has been found in Iraq  Wow!

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777236ER
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RE: Roadside Bomb Contained Nerve Agent

Tue May 18, 2004 3:11 am

No one knows as yet whether they're geniune WMD that actually threatened the US, UK and their allies...or whether they were Iran-Iraq left overs. So shut up for a bit.
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tbar220
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RE: Roadside Bomb Contained Nerve Agent

Tue May 18, 2004 3:15 am

I've heard that its relatively easy to make Ricin or Sarin if you know how, is that correct?
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Goose
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RE: Roadside Bomb Contained Nerve Agent

Tue May 18, 2004 3:28 am

FoxNews is reporting that now a 2nd Sarin bomb has been found in Iraq

Hrm, I'd take that with a grain of salt, considering the source.....


I've heard that its relatively easy to make Ricin or Sarin if you know how, is that correct?

No, it's not easy.

Is sarin easy to make?
No. It’s complicated and dangerous to produce. Although sarin can be made with publicly available chemicals, a sophisticated lab is needed to make sarin that is pure and long lasting. Sarin can also be made by mixing together relatively harmless chemicals before use—but it’s an extremely dangerous process with unpredictable results.


From http://cfrterrorism.org/weapons/sarin.html
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Roadside Bomb Contained Nerve Agent

Tue May 18, 2004 3:43 am

Actually, now the 2nd device is said to be Mustard Gas

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,120137,00.html
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sabenapilot
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RE: Roadside Bomb Contained Nerve Agent

Tue May 18, 2004 3:49 am

Seems Al Zaqawi (sp?) didn't come empty handed then...

This is irony at it's best:
Apparently there are now more WMD in Iraq then before the war...
 
Goose
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RE: Roadside Bomb Contained Nerve Agent

Tue May 18, 2004 4:33 am

Actually, now the 2nd device is said to be Mustard Gas

I'd still be a little wary until someone else reports it, again, considering the source.... but I have a feeling that it might not be, considering the implication to folks perpetuating the anti-war sentiment.


Apparently there are now more WMD in Iraq then before the war...

True, based on the UN's inability to find any - despite having a very narrow field of view and being hindered by the then-Iraqi government in its efforts to find evidence of WMD. The Iraqis were less than forthcoming in trying to disprove that they had any.... *shrug*
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Roadside Bomb Contained Nerve Agent

Tue May 18, 2004 5:11 am

ABSOLUTELY UNBELIEVABLE that the entire USA media (except of course FoxNews) are completely ignoring this ground-breaking scoop!  Pissed

Of all sources, the BBC is the only other to mention it  Wow!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3722255.stm
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diamond
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RE: Roadside Bomb Contained Nerve Agent

Tue May 18, 2004 5:14 am

Ricin, Sarin, Mustard ... It doesn't matter. 70% of you will manifest some Clinton connection on this, just like everything else.


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777236ER
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RE: Roadside Bomb Contained Nerve Agent

Tue May 18, 2004 5:14 am

What, even the uberliberal Communist BBC?!

This ISN'T a group-breaking scoop! A shell left over from the Iran-Iraq war does NOT MAKE IRAQ an imminent threat to the US and UK. Sorry.
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Goose
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RE: Roadside Bomb Contained Nerve Agent

Tue May 18, 2004 5:15 am

Of all sources, the BBC is the only other to mention it

The CBC was the original source for the link I posted this morning.

And the BBC article sort of poo-pooed the find as insignificant; they also said it was the first evidence of WMDs in Iraq found since the war started over a year ago, which it isn't. *shrug*
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WellHung
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RE: Roadside Bomb Contained Nerve Agent

Tue May 18, 2004 5:22 am

ABSOLUTELY UNBELIEVABLE that the entire USA media (except of course FoxNews) are completely ignoring this ground-breaking scoop!

Umm... it's easy to make claims when you TOTALLY IGNORE things.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4997808/

A roadside bomb containing deadly sarin nerve agent exploded near a U.S. military convoy, the U.S. military said Monday. It was believed to be the first confirmed discovery of any of the banned weapons that the United States cited in making its case for the Iraq war.

http://abcnews.go.com/wire/World/ap20040517_1180.html

Are these part of the USA media?  Confused
 
Guest

RE: Roadside Bomb Contained Nerve Agent

Tue May 18, 2004 5:25 am

ConcordeBoy, I was about to make the same remark. I've checked most (not all) American media, and my feeling, based on what I read, is that basically the test that came positive was a field test, and therefore not 100% fullproof, so they want to cover themselves in case this comes up negative.

PS: Almost unbelievable but true... CNN Int'l is mentioning it on its front page (http://edition.cnn.com), and CNN US isn't lol (http://us.cnn.com).

Edit: I think that ConcordeBoy meant that the story was not THE cover story (at least that's my case).

[Edited 2004-05-17 22:27:42]

Second Edit: typo.

[Edited 2004-05-17 22:28:55]
 
keesje
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RE: Roadside Bomb Contained Nerve Agent

Tue May 18, 2004 5:26 am

ABSOLUTELY UNBELIEVABLE that the entire USA media (except of course FoxNews) are completely ignoring this ground-breaking scoop!


The media are very much focussed on the things the public wants to hear. The public doesn´t like to get reminded on the embarrassing WMD thing, Iraq not being linked to OBL, 9-11 and stuff ..
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WellHung
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RE: Roadside Bomb Contained Nerve Agent

Tue May 18, 2004 6:38 am

 
Guest

RE: Roadside Bomb Contained Nerve Agent

Tue May 18, 2004 6:44 am

What, of mine? Sure, if you want so... I was just trying to understand what ConcordeBoy said, but, again, I don't like to speak for others, so you're probably right.

However, I still stand by my other statement that MOST American media I checked didn't have the sarin story as cover, but rather that of the killing of the President of the council.
 
mrniji
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RE: Roadside Bomb Contained Nerve Agent

Tue May 18, 2004 6:50 am

You guys are shameless.

I agree, these propaganda attempts here...

I always notice with surprise (and relieve) that from Britain virtually no one justifies the war...

The machine behind now is trying to turn everything into a WMD to justify the war... later, they fill find firecrackers and say they have 12000 KM reach and could target the Pentagon and are capable of carrying these 'WMD wareads'...

Stop the war...!
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WellHung
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RE: Roadside Bomb Contained Nerve Agent

Tue May 18, 2004 6:55 am

No, not yours. I can only speak for my interpretation, but it's pretty obvious what "completely ignore" means. But you're right that most have the murder as top story, as they should.
 
NoUFO
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RE: Roadside Bomb Contained Nerve Agent

Tue May 18, 2004 7:50 am

This photo shows an U.S. soldier (without NBC protection) after the grenade exploded. Red smoke warns passer-biers of the nerve gas.

Click me gently
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Guest

RE: Roadside Bomb Contained Nerve Agent

Tue May 18, 2004 7:55 am

NoUFO, no bitch-question intended, but are you sure you got the right picture? Because the same pic is on Foxnews.com's cover branded as:

"Red smoke billows from an area where a non-chemical improvised explosive device was found in Baghdad today"

I'm just confused....
 
NoUFO
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RE: Roadside Bomb Contained Nerve Agent

Tue May 18, 2004 8:12 am

Don't know. I merely cited the source I have linked to since the subtitle is in German language. Either FAZ, Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung - a conservative, reliable newspaper, or Fox provided a wrong image.
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mrniji
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RE: Roadside Bomb Contained Nerve Agent

Tue May 18, 2004 8:14 am

Either FAZ, Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung - a conservative, reliable newspaper, or Fox provided a wrong image

Definitely not FAZ. It is not my choice but a very reliable source. And FOX's reputation says everything
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Guest

RE: Roadside Bomb Contained Nerve Agent

Tue May 18, 2004 8:18 am

Agreed, I definitely don't take Foxnews as a 100% true source, but as NoUFO pointed out, that soldier doesn't have an NBC (ironical name in our case, isn't it?) protection on him.

I'm branding it as innocent mistake on any side.
 
N79969
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RE: Roadside Bomb Contained Nerve Agent

Tue May 18, 2004 8:18 am

I do not think that this will be the last unconventional weapon used. Saddam was hiding (or pretending to) something for 12+ years and impoverished his country for some reason.

Lots of things crossed into Syria from Iraq during Saddam's last days. There may be more sarin or even more deadly weapons.
 
JAL777
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RE: Roadside Bomb Contained Nerve Agent

Tue May 18, 2004 8:19 am

Wow... and old can of nerve gas. Woop-dee-fucking-doo.  Insane
 
pelican
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RE: Roadside Bomb Contained Nerve Agent

Tue May 18, 2004 8:21 am

I don't want to judge the explosion of the Sarin bomb- it's too early... But I have to say that Mustard Gas isn't a real wmd, though it's a chemical weapon.

http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/sulfurmustard/basics/facts.asp

pelican
 
NoUFO
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RE: Roadside Bomb Contained Nerve Agent

Tue May 18, 2004 8:41 am

but as NoUFO pointed out, that soldier doesn't have an NBC (ironical name in our case, isn't it?) protection on him.

*LOL* Yeah, well seriously: Thank God, only two soldiers transporting the shell have been slightly injured in the incident. So it may very well be safe to stand in a somewhat remote area without protection.

Although FAZ's reputation is much better than Fox's, I think it is likely that in this case FAZ made a mistake since it is actually old news and I doubt AP would withheld a photo for a couple of days.

Or maybe the photo shows a shell which later turned out to be non-chemical ...
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Goose
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RE: Roadside Bomb Contained Nerve Agent

Tue May 18, 2004 8:53 am

But I have to say that Mustard Gas isn't a real wmd, though it's a chemical weapon.

I don't understand how you could classify it as not being a "real" weapon of mass destruction; it certainly can do the job of one.
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pelican
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RE: Roadside Bomb Contained Nerve Agent

Tue May 18, 2004 9:08 am

Exposure to sulfur mustard is usually not fatal. When sulfur mustard was used during World War I, it killed fewer than 5% of the people who were exposed and got medical care.

WMD's like the nerve agents - especially VX - Sarin (GB), Tabun (GA), Soman (GD) will kill the nearly everybody who had contact with them (unless quick countermeasures). They are much more sophisticated weapons (the death rate will be far higher than 5%) than mustard gas, which is "only" an hazardous chemical, with the potential of a cheap weapon.

pelican


[Edited 2004-05-18 02:18:55]
 
Goose
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RE: Roadside Bomb Contained Nerve Agent

Tue May 18, 2004 9:19 am

WMD's like the nerve agents VX, Sarin (GB), Tabun (GA), Soman (GD) will kill the nearly everybody who had contact with them (unless quick countermeasures). They are much more sophisticated weapons than mustard gas, which is "only" an hazardous chemical, with the potential of a cheap weapon.

True, mustard is a comparitively simple weapon... but it's effects aren't exactly pleasant, either - compared with to sarin or other agents.

My great-grandfather was gassed with Mustard gas during the First World War; he survived, but he was the only member of his unit to live past the age of 30, or so the story goes.....
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pelican
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RE: Roadside Bomb Contained Nerve Agent

Tue May 18, 2004 9:27 am

I didn't want to deny that mustard gas is a dangerous weapon which can kill. But a M-16 used by a US-marine is also a harmful weapon, though it isn't a wmd.

pelican
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Roadside Bomb Contained Nerve Agent

Tue May 18, 2004 1:59 pm

ABSOLUTELY UNBELIEVABLE that the entire USA media (except of course FoxNews) are completely ignoring this ground-breaking scoop!

All that cussing, ConcordeBoy, over ONE WEAPON? Hell, you'd think they found a whole fucking townload of the stuff.

It's one weapon. Again, if you justify the war over this one weapon, then God help this nation.
 
L-188
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RE: Roadside Bomb Contained Nerve Agent

Tue May 18, 2004 2:04 pm

Actually I am pretty appalled by the lack of coverage too.

Shows the liberal media bias that democrates claim doesn't exist.

Hell even Canadian news carried it!!!


The running theory is that this was a binary weapon that wasn't marked to the IED maker rigged it up like a convetional bomb. So when it was detonated, the two chemicals didn't mix as they would normally and that reduced their potency.
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QIguy24
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RE: Roadside Bomb Contained Nerve Agent

Tue May 18, 2004 2:10 pm

LOL!!!!

uhhhh...... What an accomplishment. Hip hop hooray!!
You probably can't use that shit anyway. half a year ago the danish and the german soldiers found an abandoned shelter where they found some grenades with some fluid in them. They were totaly useless and they were some leftovers from the Iraq - Iran war. And I wonder who they got those grenades from.  Insane
 
Goose
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RE: Roadside Bomb Contained Nerve Agent

Tue May 18, 2004 2:38 pm

It's one weapon. Again, if you justify the war over this one weapon, then God help this nation.

Uhm, again, I'm just curious as to how much nerve agent in the hands of a murderous, brutal dictatorship is acceptable? 1 shell? 100 shells? 1000 shells?

......
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NoUFO
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RE: Roadside Bomb Contained Nerve Agent

Tue May 18, 2004 7:18 pm

Goose, give it up. You're turning into just another "His master's voice" advocate.

Although I opposed this war, I was convinced the allied troops would eventually find WMD. I was wrong. They found vacuum cleaners among other things unlikely to pose an immediate thread. A couple of rusty leftovers are by no means a stockpile of WMD nor a weapon program. Saddam was a brutal dictator, but he obviously did not pose an appreciable risk. If this one shell proves anything, it is that SH's regime wasn't even able to maintain WMD.

Then I thought, "well at least, torture in prisons came to an end." Not quite, really .. Obviously, I was wrong again, and Spiegel reports that one torture victim died. Though I still do not wish to compare soldiers involved in those barbaric methods with Saddam's henchmen, not only the U.S. but rather the entire western world lost lots of it's credibility.

Then there was this domino theory that the establishment of a free Iraq at the heart of the Middle East would be a "watershed event" forcing other regimes to return power to the people. Basically, the Bush administration wanted to show the UN that the US is more capable of handling international conflicts - and failed badly. The world did not turn into a safer place (quite to the contrary). The fact that Mrs. Rice herself feels obliged to visit a German talk show to promote the Administration's point of view says a lot.
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STT757
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RE: Roadside Bomb Contained Nerve Agent

Wed May 19, 2004 12:20 am

To build upon what's known..

Apparently the person who rigged the Sarin/nerve gas IED did not know what it was, they thought it was an ordinary artilery round. The insurgents have been using the tens of thousands of rounds of artilery and mortar rounds that are scattered around the ammo dump known as the Country of Iraq, they rig the large artilery shells with plastic explosives to create massive car bombs (recent asasination of the Iraqi council President).

This person has apprently stumbled upon some chemical weapons someplace, unfortunately this person who definetly is watching the media coverage now realizes that the shell contained sarin so they are probably going back to look for more.

Whether there are 1,2 or a thousand other war heads remains to be seen but the scary thing is that only the insurgents know where this round came from, it obviously did not come from outside the country as it's in a artilery shell which they don't need to smuggle in (they are everywhere in Iraq).

The Coalition forces need to get some serious airborne survalience going to look for "digging", the insurgents no doubt are going to be scurrying like rats trying to dig up more of the weapons.

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sebolino
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RE: Roadside Bomb Contained Nerve Agent

Wed May 19, 2004 12:27 am

Nice,

Any of the no WMD people wish to comment?


Sure:

You were right, after 1 year they found a single bomb, while the country is full of terrorists for months. That's a big threat to the USA, the war was justified !

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