mt99
Posts: 6166
Joined: Wed May 26, 1999 5:41 am

Holy Jesus..Im A Jew!

Wed May 19, 2004 10:44 pm

I just found out that my ancestors were Jewish!

Apparently my great grandfather decided to head over for America from France to seek fame and furtune.. married catholic lady on this side of the ocean.. and i guess the offspring was raised catholic.

So many questions!

PS. I hope this doenst fall into one of those "self-gloss" things.
Step into my office, baby
 
707CMF
Posts: 4698
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RE: Holy Jesus..Im A Jew!

Wed May 19, 2004 10:51 pm

Technically, if your great grandmother was catholic, then her children are/were not Jew. So... you are not Jew either.

I have a similar case in my familly, as my grandmother was Jew. Technically, although raised a Catholic, my father is considered Jew by many, but since my mother is Catholic, I am not Jew at all (except if you ask me money, but I might be Scott as well  Wink/being sarcastic )

707
 
Greg
Posts: 5539
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RE: Holy Jesus..Im A Jew!

Wed May 19, 2004 11:00 pm

You're not a Jew.
Mommy needs to be one......Dad's don't count...

Unless they both converted--or you did.

So, in summary, you'll still have to pay retail.
 Smile
 
mt99
Posts: 6166
Joined: Wed May 26, 1999 5:41 am

RE: Holy Jesus..Im A Jew!

Wed May 19, 2004 11:08 pm

Ohh.. i wasnt aware of that little detail..

Intersting none the less.

I guess Jews everywere breathe a sigh of relief  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Step into my office, baby
 
damirc
Posts: 726
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 8:43 am

RE: Holy Jesus..Im A Jew!

Wed May 19, 2004 11:31 pm

Similar case here ... On my paternal side I have some Jewish heritage (not sure how many generations back though) - and have a Jewish last name.

Guess it surprises RJPieces and Jutes  Smile

D.
 
captaingomes
Posts: 6251
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RE: Holy Jesus..Im A Jew!

Thu May 20, 2004 12:13 am

My ancestors are Jewish too. I'm Portuguese, and part of my name is "Oliveira", and any Portuguese with part of their name being a tree, plant, or whatever, has Jewish ancestry. "Oliveira" means olive tree, hehe. So you're not alone! By the way, I am stingy with money, and I have a big nose, so I'm not surprised at all.  Big grin (I can't wait for people to freak out on me for the stereotypes).
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
5T6
Posts: 264
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RE: Holy Jesus..Im A Jew!

Thu May 20, 2004 12:16 am

...So, in summary, you'll still have to pay retail.

THAT is funny, Greg!! Oy!!  Wink/being sarcastic

Regards,

Mike
I see my Cats as Companions. My Cats see Me as Furniture!
 
leviticus
Posts: 1016
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RE: Holy Jesus... I'm A Jew!

Thu May 20, 2004 1:08 am

This whole thing about who is considered a Jew and who is not, is a little bit wicked I think. And according to the "formula" you can not be a half Jew or part Jewish. But I think that this only should be seen as the official way if you talk about traditions and religion, because technically, if one of your ancestors was a Jew you are still part Jewish, ethnically ! It's an undeniable fact.
 
redngold
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RE: Holy Jesus..Im A Jew!

Thu May 20, 2004 3:13 am

I have a Jewish man somewhere back in my heritage, although I don't think he added to my direct lineage. Something about a Jewish traveling salesman fathering a child with a great aunt...

In any case, I try to be sensitive to the Jewish roots of Christianity, and apparently my efforts have paid off -- I once took a Jewish Studies course at Univ. of Delaware, and went through half of the semester before someone asked me whether I had made Bat Mitzvah, since I was so astute on the Torah. I was floored that someone actually thought I was Jewish... not offended, rather honored.


redngold
Up, up and away!
 
Bofredrik
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RE: Holy Jesus..Im A Jew!

Thu May 20, 2004 4:10 am

Even Hitler and Lenin had jewish background far away...
 
us330
Posts: 3409
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RE: Holy Jesus..Im A Jew!

Thu May 20, 2004 5:02 am

Hitler's wasn't that far away.....
Apparently, his paternal grandmother was working as a maid/servant for the Rothchilds in Austria when she became pregnant with Hitler's father. They have traced payments from the Rotchilds to her to help her raise the child.
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13916
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RE: Holy Jesus..Im A Jew!

Thu May 20, 2004 5:11 am

Us people from central / eastern Europe have been so thourougly mixed up that I think someone can find about anything in my ancestry, if he looks far enough back. Starting the stone age Germany, Austria, Poland, the Czech Republic and Hungary have been at the crossroads of Europe. Any invader or stream of refugees or simple imigration was just moving through our lands. I know of oneof my great-great-great great-grandfathers, who was a soldier in Napoleon´s Grande Armee during the invasion and subsequent retreat from Russia. This guy got stuck in East Prussia (today Russia´s Kaliningrad province) and married a local girl.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
leviticus
Posts: 1016
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RE: Holy Jesus..Im A Jew!

Thu May 20, 2004 5:50 am

Hitler was not a bit Jewish but Lenin was, and so were Marx, Stalin, Engels, Trosky, Rakosi and all the other "good guys".
 
redngold
Posts: 6673
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RE: Holy Jesus..Im A Jew!

Thu May 20, 2004 6:14 am

The religious definition of "Jewish" is a maternal lineage. If your mother was Jewish, you are Jewish. If your father was but your mother was not, technically you are not Jewish.
Up, up and away!
 
AWspicious
Posts: 2780
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2001 7:47 am

RE: Holy Jesus..Im A Jew!

Thu May 20, 2004 6:35 am

Which begs the question, what's the big deal?? We are all people, dammit... Who more than likely share similar ancestors somewhere along the line. So, why does every one have to freak on every one else because of country or religion or colour.
If anyone truly believes in religion, do they honestly believe their god, jesus, allah, buddha, mohammed, or whoever really said they should separate themselves from others? Did their religious teachings say to hate and kill others who don't share your religious beliefs? If your god, jesus, buddha, mohammed or whomever is supposedly responsible for all of mankind's existence, then why would the maker condone hate for each other?
I think the real question is, does religion hold any validity?? With things being the way they are in the world today, I'm hard pressed to say yes. Certainly not in the way it's described in many of the printed material that's in circulation.
I believe religion is a relative state of mind. Relative to the environment in which it's believers existed. So, who's to say any one religion is right and the others are not. THAT'S WHY we have wars and hate for each other and separation by boundaries and boarders. Starting to look like religion is the cause for all the world's problems, doesn't it....?
I'm sure many of you will become bent after reading my post. Frankly, I don't care. Prove me wrong.

edit: I can vouch for CaptainGomes. What a stingy bugger he is (heh heh)
Wanna split a pack later? (LoL)

[Edited 2004-05-19 23:39:53]
Nevermind political correctness - Envision using your turn signals!
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13916
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Holy Jesus..Im A Jew!

Thu May 20, 2004 6:35 am

Leveticus,

Bullsh*t!

Lenin´s and Stalin´s families where both Russian orthodox Christians, Stalin was actually training to become a priest, before he joined the Communist movement.
Marx had a Jewish background, but was decidedly antireligious, same as Trotski.
I don´t know about Rakosi, but many Russian jews joined the revolutionaries back in 1917, simply because they were persecuted and used as scape goats in Czarist Russia.

Jan

Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
AC320
Posts: 2809
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RE: Holy Jesus..Im A Jew!

Thu May 20, 2004 7:07 am

Well tribal affiliation is passed through the father, while the religious designation is passed from the maternal side, if it was your paternal great-grandfather you might still be technically part of the "tribe".
fuddle duddle
 
pelican
Posts: 2429
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 9:51 pm

RE: Holy Jesus..Im A Jew!

Thu May 20, 2004 7:45 am

THAT'S WHY we have wars and hate for each other and separation

Hmm, how do you explain wars between nations with the same religion
Italy-Austria both catholic (WWI) Germany-France (...WWI+II) France catholic, Germany nearly 50% catholic) the same with Germany and Poland in WWII - while UK and France were allies... Your theory is either outdated or you generalize way too much, religion can be a reason (middle east) and it often was but it's not "the" reason. Maybe religion is becoming the reason number one (once again) of war but it wasn't the reason of the grand wars in the last century.

MD11Engineer - you aren't accidentally from the Berlin-Region the big melting pot of central Europe?

pelican
 
leviticus
Posts: 1016
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RE: Holy Jesus..Im A Jew!

Thu May 20, 2004 7:55 am

I am speaking of ethnicity here not religion, anyone can convert.
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13916
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RE: Holy Jesus..Im A Jew!

Thu May 20, 2004 8:05 am

Pelican,

Yes, I was born there and lived there for a long time, but now I´m livuing much further west... May I happen to know you?

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
pelican
Posts: 2429
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 9:51 pm

RE: Holy Jesus..Im A Jew!

Thu May 20, 2004 8:22 am

It was just a guess because of your personal history - many "Ostpreußen" came to Berlin after the last war. Your name isn't widespread in Germany. But in Berlin you can find your name or similar names a few times...

pelican
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13916
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RE: Holy Jesus..Im A Jew!

Thu May 20, 2004 8:30 am

You are right. My father´s side of the family came from "Ostpreussen" (for thev Russians and Polish in here, I´ve got no ambitions to claim our ancestral farm, whoever runs it now is welcome to keep it).
There are two clans of Krusats in Germany, one in Berlin, which are all close relatives, and another one in the Ruhr area, of whom I suspect that they are a different branch of the same family, I talked to one of them and they are from the same region (traced down to a few villages).
The name is originaly Lithuanian though.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
csavel
Posts: 1265
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 9:38 pm

RE: Holy Jesus..Im A Jew!

Fri May 21, 2004 12:40 pm

Leviticus, um sorry to burst your bubble that every commie was Jewish, but

Ethnically Lenin (born Ulyanov) was Russian, and some people thought he had some Siberian stock, not just because of where he was born, but because of his somewhat "Asiatic" eyes. Whatever, he wasn't Jewish, ethnically, religiously, or anything else.

Stalin was not even Russian, he was Georgian, born Dzhugashvili, spoke Russian as a second language, and was Georgian orthodox.Again not Jewish at all.

Don't think Engels was Jewish, but I can't confirm that he wasn't.

Marx - definitely Jewish, descendant of Rabbis, but he himself wasn't raised Jewish and was somewhat anti-Semitic (!)

Trotsky - born Bronstein was Jewish,though not religious.

Emma Goldman, Rosa Luxemburg, since someone will ask were both Jewish.

Since someone will ask about these too...

Gus Hall - not a Jew, born in the midwest of Scandinavian extraction.
Norman Thomas - WASP from New Jersey
Eugene Debs - nope.

So what does this mean, class.

There are good and bad in all people, from good Jews (Einstein) to bad ones (David Berkowitz) so when saying, or rather "implying" that all the other "good guys". are Jewish, or for that matter, Black,or Arab, or comparing why there are so many of insert ethnic group here who are illustrious as compared to insert ethnic group here who are not, well that shows more about yourself than anything else.
I may be ugly. I may be an American. But don't call me an ugly American.
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: Holy Jesus..Im A Jew!

Fri May 21, 2004 12:51 pm

to bad ones (David Berkowitz)

That lunie tunes isn't Jewish anymore IIRC...Didn't he convert in prison?
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
sleekjet
Posts: 2006
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2001 1:35 am

RE: Holy Jesus..Im A Jew!

Sat May 22, 2004 1:07 am

I just wish folks wouldn't begin sentences with "Holy Jesus!" and the like. So disrespectful. "Oh MY God" is a bother as well. The person who says that isn't thinking about God at that moment...it's just something to say.
II Cor. 4:17-18
 
fly_yhm
Posts: 1647
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2000 1:12 pm

RE: Holy Jesus..Im A Jew!

Wed May 26, 2004 12:19 pm

Sleekjet thanks for that.

As far as whether or not you are jewish or not I don't think you would be if you don't follow the beliefs. Thats like saying because my Mom is Chistian but my Dad isn't and I don't follow Christ as my Lord and Savior I'm a Christian. That just my 2 cents.

By The Way I am a Folloer of Jesus Christ that was just an example.
Where will you spend eternity? He,s more real then you think!!!!!
 
tbar220
Posts: 6706
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 12:08 pm

RE: Holy Jesus..Im A Jew!

Wed May 26, 2004 4:25 pm

Holy Jesus..Im A Jew!

LOL! For some reason, I find that funny  Big thumbs up The combination of Holy Jesus and I'm a Jew.
NO URLS in signature
 
747400F
Posts: 464
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 3:36 am

RE: Holy Jesus..Im A Jew!

Wed May 26, 2004 11:05 pm

Surely you are only jewish if you belive in it.

My mother considers herself Christian, that does not make me a Christian!
I'm Atheist!
All humans have the right to marry the one they love
 
haveric
Posts: 1219
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 9:31 am

RE: Holy Jesus..Im A Jew!

Thu May 27, 2004 12:06 am

Those of you endorsing stereotypes that Jewish people are cheap and have large noses are totally irresponsible. We're past the point in human history where restating stereotypes is OK.
 
captaingomes
Posts: 6251
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2001 1:33 am

RE: Holy Jesus..Im A Jew!

Thu May 27, 2004 2:57 am

No Haveric, people have become so PC that you can't joke about anything anymore. Soon, any joke will be considered "totally irresponsible" and we will all follow eachother like robots and have no personalities. I can understand how some things can be offensive, but a little bit of joking around should not be considered offensive to anyone.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
British767
Posts: 1523
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RE: Holy Jesus..Im A Jew!

Thu May 27, 2004 3:08 am

Even if you were a Jew, what's so bad about that?
 
747400F
Posts: 464
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 3:36 am

RE: Holy Jesus..Im A Jew!

Thu May 27, 2004 5:18 am

Check to see if you have had the snip - might give you a clau as to if you are in fact a jew boy!
All humans have the right to marry the one they love
 
CXA330300
Posts: 1258
Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 5:51 am

RE: Holy Jesus..Im A Jew!

Thu May 27, 2004 5:24 am

May I please remind you that there are Jewish members on the forum?

Anyway, I just found out that I am related to several Cossacks who raped several of my widowed ancestors. I also have a snippet of Mongol blood.
AC/AA/UA/DL/B6/WN/US*/CO*/FI/BA/IB/AF/SK/LX/Sabena*/TK/LY/SA/MN/SW/AM/CE*/CX/CA/MU/JL/SQ/TG/MH/KA/5J
 
windshear
Posts: 2257
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 4:45 pm

RE: Holy Jesus..Im A Jew!

Thu May 27, 2004 8:25 am

"I guess Jews everywere breathe a sigh of relief"

Nah I kinda hoped you would join the club  Big grin

Boaz...
"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
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RE: Holy Jesus..Im A Jew!

Thu May 27, 2004 8:31 am

My ancestors are Jewish too. I'm Portuguese, and part of my name is "Oliveira", and any Portuguese with part of their name being a tree, plant, or whatever, has Jewish ancestry.

Have you ever heard of the Marranos? My spelling might be wrong, but they were Jews who were forced to convert to Christianity during the Inquisition. For years, they secretly practiced Judaism and even today, there are tons of them still around Portugal.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
windshear
Posts: 2257
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 4:45 pm

RE: Holy Jesus..Im A Jew!

Thu May 27, 2004 8:40 am

I have a pakistani girl friend, no not THAT kind of girl friend, she told me that they were Jewish before turning Muslim?!?!??!

Well aint that strange...

Boaz...
"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
 
CXA330300
Posts: 1258
Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 5:51 am

RE: Holy Jesus..Im A Jew!

Thu May 27, 2004 9:59 am

I almost may be in a similar conundrum- but it's "Raise the Flag...I'm a Pole"
AC/AA/UA/DL/B6/WN/US*/CO*/FI/BA/IB/AF/SK/LX/Sabena*/TK/LY/SA/MN/SW/AM/CE*/CX/CA/MU/JL/SQ/TG/MH/KA/5J
 
elal 744
Posts: 164
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2000 1:19 pm

RE: Holy Jesus..Im A Jew!

Thu May 27, 2004 8:43 pm

Just for definition:

According to Halacha (Jewish Law), you need to be born to a Jewish Mother to be a Jew.

The Nazis claimed that anyone with at least one Jewish Grandparent was considered Jewish.

When the State of Israel was established in 1948, it accepted that if you were Jewish enough to be persecuted by the Nazis, you are Jewish enough to come to Israel under the Law of Return.

So, Mt99, this issue need not bother you. I do hope, however, you do come to Israel to see how beautiful it is, for people of all religions.

J

PS – finding out you are a Jew can be traumatic – especially when you consider circumcision …
Vercere bracis meis
 
QIguy24
Posts: 2744
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 1:13 am

RE: Holy Jesus..Im A Jew!

Fri May 28, 2004 3:49 pm

LOL!!
THis thread reminds me of one of the funniest Family Guy episodes I saw yesterday!! Big grin
Has anyone seen that episode when Peter gets help with his economy from a Jew? Man that was hilarious!!! Specially when Optimus Prime from Transformers comes in to the Synagogue to participate  Big thumbs up

[Edited 2004-05-28 08:59:23]
 
msllsmith
Posts: 387
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 3:25 am

RE: Holy Jesus..I'm A Jew!

Sun May 30, 2004 2:20 pm

In some ways, what an interesting thread.

Before going into anything....I believe that the most important thing we all have in common is our humanity.... and I truly believe that all people, given a chance would do the right thing and believe the in the same fundamental truths.....however.... I think I have an interesting autobiographical note to add.

Many years ago, I converted to Judaism (from being religiously (?), and definitely ethnically, a Presbyterian).... in the Orthodox manner (for those of you who understand the difference). It took three (actually 2 11/12 s) years. I enjoyed every minute of it. There were certainly a number of Wood Allen-esk moments..... but the NYC Upper East side Orthodox community couldn't have been nicer or more supportive of me. For whom ever it was who said that "anyone can convert", that's not entirely correct. Jews do not as a general rule proselytize. One must seek the instruction out and convince a Rabbi of note of one's sincerity. I was in graduate school at the time and quite frankly converting was a lot more difficult. I did it for love, and the belief in family. To marry a man I had fallen in love with who had two really terrific children. Also, selfishly, I wanted any child I might have to be as "Jewish" (Mother must be Jewish) as my future step-children.

But, to keep it light, that's really just the set up for the story. While the marriage did not last, the experience did. I still consider myself religiously Jewish....although visually and culturally, I'm still the same old WASP. But my son, the product of said marriage was raised (before and after the marriage) Jewish.

It is said that the Messiah will be the product of a Convert and a Kohane (I'm the convert,his Dad is the Kohane obviously).......

The punch line. My kid gets a certain chuckle about that.....particularly since he's a ....... carpenter.

(On second thought this may lost on the larger audience..... but ELAL 744 will probably get it...Right?)

As a Post Script: while a woman converting may involve a final attempt by the Rabbis to drown her (repeatedly)...... conversion for a fellow does seem a bit more ..... traumatic, I think is the best way to put it..... something about carving something...!!!!!!  Smile

There's nothing more beautiful than flying into the dawn.
 
USAFHummer
Posts: 10261
Joined: Thu May 18, 2000 12:22 pm

RE: Holy Jesus..Im A Jew!

Sun May 30, 2004 2:25 pm

"Has anyone seen that episode when Peter gets help with his economy from a Jew?"

Yep, an absolute riot...I love the cameo by Ben Stein...a perfect fit for that episode!

Greg
Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
 
airplay
Posts: 3369
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 1:58 am

RE: Holy Jesus..Im A Jew!

Mon May 31, 2004 1:28 am

Sounds like you're not a Jew for sure, but you are Jewish...

(Stole that from Seinfeld)

Anyway, aren't Catholics just a bunch of converted Jews anyway? I mean if you go back far enough, all of us Christians are Jews aren't we?

 Smile
 
leviticus
Posts: 1016
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 7:34 am

RE: Holy Jesus..Im A Jew!

Mon May 31, 2004 2:04 am

Anyway, aren't Catholics just a bunch of converted Jews anyway? I mean if you go back far enough, all of us Christians are Jews aren't we?

No not really
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: Holy Jesus..Im A Jew!

Mon May 31, 2004 3:25 am

Judaism was the first religion of monotheism. Christianity and Islam are both offshoots of Judaism.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
nycfuturepilot
Posts: 773
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2003 2:50 am

RE: Holy Jesus..Im A Jew!

Mon May 31, 2004 10:42 am

People need to remember that religion should be a matter of choice left up to the person in question and not be inhereted through birth.
Father, Son, HOYA spirit

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