planespotterx
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Mayor Giuliani, NYC

Thu May 20, 2004 1:05 am

Wow, I heard him talking on the 9/11 report earlier today, Mr Giuliani is such a inspiring role-model for not only the citizens of the US, but worldwide, even when the 2 planes had crashed into the WTC all he wanted to do was "get down there" and help people.
I thought his comments about the NY police/fire/ambulance departments were spot-on, He was such a great Mayor of NYC.
I never even heard of him before 9/11, now I think he's the greatest guy in the US lol, just goes to show that not everyone in power huddles in a nuclear bunker at times of crisis, he's a real caring guy.
Its not the fall that kills u, its the sudden stop at the end..
 
FDXmech
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RE: Mayor Giuliani, NYC

Thu May 20, 2004 3:57 am

Arguably the best mayor in NYC's history. He turned the city around.
You're only as good as your last departure.
 
BN747
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RE: Mayor Giuliani, NYC

Thu May 20, 2004 4:02 am

Well uh... the 9/11 families don't think so.. makes ya' wonder about the other side of the issue doesn't it?


BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Mayor Giuliani, NYC

Thu May 20, 2004 4:37 am

makes ya' wonder about the other side of the issue doesn't it?

Not really.

...makes me wonder how much money they are/were after though.  Yeah sure
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
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STT757
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RE: Mayor Giuliani, NYC

Thu May 20, 2004 5:33 am

The otherside of the issue is that for the families of those who were lost their whole lives surround this investigation, as long as this investigation is on going in a way they are not having to deal with the fact that their loved one is gone and that they have to move on.

The people speaking out today are the same group of 30 or so that appear on tv locally everytime anything about 9-11 is talked about, the Woman who screamed out "my son was murdered" lost her fire fighter son on 9-11.

She's spoke out on several issues since 9-11 as "scandalous", she's very emotional and very vocal and driven to condem everyone and everything she associates with that day.

Except the terrorists themselves.

I was actually teared up when the families spoke out, it's still very emotional and for them they will never recover or accept what happened. I even noticed that members of the Comitteee were getting choked up and Mayor Giulianni kept his composure but Im sure that hearing those things yelled at him were very hard to take.

The Mayor went to HUNDREDS of funerals after 9-11, he went to as many as he physically and emotionally could stand.

I met Mayor Giulianni in 1986/'87 during his first campaign for Mayor (which he lost to Dinkins), there was no better person to be in that position on that day than Rudy Giulianni. He did a terrific job restoring the City's Pride and Prestige after Decades of jobs and people fleeing the City, he also kept NYC on it's feet after enduring a hit that would have destroyed other Cities morale.

Even Al Sharpton who was always at odds with the former Mayor for his tough stance on crime had nothing but praise for the Former Mayors' leadership.

It's unfortunate but I wish President Bush listened to people like Giulianni more than he listened to people like Cheney and Wolfowitz.

It's unclear right now but eventualy Rudy Giulianni is going to be back in Politics, whether that's as a NY Senator (unseat Clinton) or as a Presidential Canidate remains to be seen.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
rjpieces
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RE: Mayor Giuliani, NYC

Thu May 20, 2004 6:08 am

There is no mistake that Rudy Giulianni was a great mayor of NYC. He turned the city around 100%. However, I felt that at times he acted very dictatorial...Trying to censor art at the Brooklyn Museum, trying to extend his term after 9/11.

Overall, he did an amazing job.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
leviticus
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RE: Mayor Giuliani, NYC

Thu May 20, 2004 7:00 am

It would be great to have him as Vice President with GWB, maybe Georgie could consider kicking Cheney's butt out of office.
 
BN747
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RE: Mayor Giuliani, NYC

Thu May 20, 2004 8:45 am

Well uh... the 9/11 families don't think so.. makes ya' wonder about the other side of the issue doesn't it?

Concordeboy,:

Not really.

...makes me wonder how much money they are/were after though.


That is a really crass comment to make about the 9/11 families. The majority of people who held jobs there were involved in world finance and related industries. In other words they were most likely pulling down $170,000 -500,000 a year. And you think 1 to 2 million dollars or even $10-20 million is going to replace who they lost in the WTC? You must be out of your gord!

These people are seeking answers and they have every right to question, every person, agency, local and federal in pursuit of the right answer.. esp. with this administration (and Guliani) who has been fighting them every step of the way!

If someone you loved (if they exist) were in an accident and someone TOLD you "...here take this settlement (and promise not to sue) and ask no questions or don't worry, well get the details and past them on to you later..."

I don't know about you.. but I wouldn't quit until no stone is left unturn.. at getting at the truth.. and that's exactly what those people are doing.

Money.. ha. Either you haven't been following the plight of these people or don't a damn one way or another -- and for a supersonic patriotic american, I find your response pretty shallow for such people in pursuit of a truthful resolution to one of the greatest crimes in American history.


BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
FDXmech
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RE: Mayor Giuliani, NYC

Thu May 20, 2004 10:18 am

I wouldn't be surprised to see a President Giuliani.

>>>I find your response pretty shallow for such people in pursuit of a truthful resolution to one of the greatest crimes in American history.<<<

No argument, though I consider this not a crime rather an act of war.

You're only as good as your last departure.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Mayor Giuliani, NYC

Thu May 20, 2004 12:41 pm

I wouldn't be surprised to see a President Giuliani.

ROTFLMAO. He doesn't have the temperment to be a President.

And I love all this post-facto 9/11 love-in with Rudi, who was considered, at best, an average mayor before 9/11. Now he's a big fucking GOP hero.

Rudi for President. Boy, the GOP picks some winners.
 
cptkrell
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RE: Mayor Giuliani, NYC

Thu May 20, 2004 12:53 pm

"Now he is a big fucking GOP hero."

I'd classify him as a big fucking hero, period. Not only now, but THEN, while and during all that shit was happening.

I could only hope that if myself were in the same position at the same time I would have the sense and composure to perform so admirably, while, I suppose, that some others we hear from on this forum could have only the sense of composing rather stupid posts. Regards...Jack
all best; jack
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Mayor Giuliani, NYC

Thu May 20, 2004 12:57 pm

Jacks, fine. I'm not diminishing anything he did around 9/11, but the fact is, he was a so-so mayor, and 9/11 was one of those events that most people rise up to in some respect. But presidential material? No way.

George W. Bush is bad enough. Rudi wouldn't be what the nation needs.
 
L-188
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RE: Mayor Giuliani, NYC

Thu May 20, 2004 1:01 pm

That is a really crass comment to make about the 9/11 families. The majority of people who held jobs there were involved in world finance and related industries. In other words they were most likely pulling down $170,000 -500,000 a year. And you think 1 to 2 million dollars or even $10-20 million is going to replace who they lost in the WTC? You must be out of your gord!

Well so some Conneticut stay at home wives are actually going to have to do what the rest of us who lose love ones who are the breadwinners do, go out and find jobs!!!

How many people in any pay scale forced to do that ever finds one that makes what they lost ones made before. Almost never!!!

Sorry I don't feel sorry for them. It has been pretty obvious that the 9/11 commision for some time has been concerned with fixing blame on the current adminstration rather then finding the truth. Why is it that in public testimony the never ask the question, "What to you think would make the system better"

The reason, they don't care about the answer, so why ask it?
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Mayor Giuliani, NYC

Thu May 20, 2004 1:04 pm

L-188, tell me once again, after reading that, that you're not a Republican. I don't buy it, and I never will.

You're more worried about letting Bush off the hook, then YOU are in finding the truth, so stick that in your ANWR.
 
scottysair
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RE: Mayor Giuliani, NYC

Thu May 20, 2004 1:05 pm

Yeah, what is going on with New York Mayor? Is that need to protect with their country and keep bad guys off with the country.
 
cptkrell
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RE: Mayor Giuliani, NYC

Thu May 20, 2004 1:26 pm

OK, Alpha1; I now take your point(s) in context. My knee-jerk was that you were dissing Rudy for his performance during the crisis, which I took offense to. I realize now that was not your intent; sorry.

As far as Rudy being presidential material, I don't know. I guess I wouldn't drop my beer bottle at the suggestion when thinking about the two current choices, though.

I had a chat with another old-timer in the local biker bar today and we both agreed that we couldn't really figure out why (yeah, there are a lot of superficial reasons) neither one of us have experienced a true, great, president of the US, and both of us go back to remembering politics from the Eisenhower days. There have been some good presidents, mediocre presidents, questionable presidents, but no really great presidents in our conscious lifetimes. Sad commentary for such a band of, what - 260 million people - no? Regards...Jack

all best; jack
 
jcs17
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RE: Mayor Giuliani, NYC

Thu May 20, 2004 1:30 pm

I loved the classless saps that stood up and jeered Guiliani for "killing" their loved ones. Thats great, misdirected anger at its finest. If it wasn't for Guiliani and the leadership he provided post-9/11, I bet a lot of those people wouldn't be recieving nice hefty checks monthy from various charities for their loss. Those people make me want to vomit.

Guiliani is one of the greatest mayors in American history, bar none. New York City was a crime-ridden, crap-hole where no wanted to live in the late 80s, early 90s. It was a dump, Times Square was a porn mecca, and businesses were leaving by the droves. He turned that city around like very few people could. Example, my cousin got a relatively nice 2BR apartment on the Upper West Side for $600 a month in 1988. Today, the apartments next to his are renting for $1800 and $2000 respectively.

As for Guliani running for office, it wouldn't shock me to see Guiliani running for VP in 2008 and running for Pres. in 2012.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Mayor Giuliani, NYC

Thu May 20, 2004 1:32 pm

I think one reason for that is the dawn of the TV age, and the dawn of mass, instant communication.

Could a man, who is usually regarded as one of the three great presidents of all time, FDR, had been elected in the TV age? When he was a man who could not walk? I doubt it.

For better, and for worse, President's and candidates were able to hide more from the public in the past, than they can now. For one, in the "old days", there wasn't this instant, worldwide media, where the best way for a government to find out something immediately about a crisis is to watch CNN. And secondly, the media itself was more willing to go "off the record" and not report things, like that FDR was a parapalegic.

Remember, it wasn't really, until the President came back from Yalta in 1945, and, in remarks to a session of Congress said something like "I hope you don't mind if I make this speech sitting down, but I've just traveled 10,000 miles with 20 lbs of steel on my legs, and I'm quite exhausted", or something to that effect-that was the first MOST Americans knew that he couldn't walk without help!

I think that's one reason why we don't seem to have "great" presidents anymore, because media tends to strip then down to mere mortals these days.
 
bigphilnyc
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RE: Mayor Giuliani, NYC

Thu May 20, 2004 1:34 pm

rudy was an AMAZING mayor, no doubt.

As for this investigation, I think it's sad how people are tyrying to point fingers at everyone except the terrorists it seems.

I can understand the feelings of the families, I lost friends on 9/11, too. But to call what went on that morning "scandelous" as though someone was creating communication problems on purpose, or as though there was some blatant intentional neglect is just beyond stupid. STUPID.

These people need to deal with their loss and blame the people flying the planes and no one else.

9/11 was nothign any of us could have expected, anticipated or planned for. It was something no one has ever seen before, and you can't blame the emergency services for any errors, because they saved tens of thousands of people that day, bottom line.

-Phil
Phil Derner Jr.
 
BN747
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RE: Mayor Giuliani, NYC

Thu May 20, 2004 1:35 pm

As if I'm going to respond to anymore L-188 drivel..the year's not over.. but I'm over my limit...

ANYWAY, what if Clinton had attempted to booted Hillary and Chelsea out of the White House and bring Monica in..

This is exactly what the Great Mayor Guiliani attempted to do when the rumors of his catting around (as a married man) were confirmed. Now if L-188 blew a gasket over Clinton's suck job.. boy, you gotta wonder what he would have blown had Clinton booted out his wife and kid (before his hate-hillary meter hit the red zone).

Rudy is in no way any kind of man with principles. Nor is he noble or crafty, he just smart enough to know it counts to have good friends in the spin business. But judging by some of the people here.. he can walk on water.. scary, Pres. Rudy.. down right scary!Just when I thought nothing could be worse than Dubya.. someone proves me wrong!


BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
L-188
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RE: Mayor Giuliani, NYC

Thu May 20, 2004 1:37 pm

Frankly I think it was fated that Guiliani had to drop out of that Senate race with Hilliary. So that he could be leading New York on 9/11.

OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
BN747
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RE: Mayor Giuliani, NYC

Thu May 20, 2004 2:13 pm

Anyone see the half-assed chicken-shit response above? A complete failure to acknowledge (or equally condemn) Guiliani's infidelity...


BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
cptkrell
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RE: Mayor Giuliani, NYC

Thu May 20, 2004 2:14 pm

Alpha1; good and valid points all, however I was mostly referring to performances/results. Even the most talented spin and the best media exposure cannot alter the performance curve, which was what I was suggesting.

It seems that all of the administrations I can remember have a decidedly wishy-washy curve when graphed. Some of their pluses outweigh the minuses and vice-versa. I wouldn't believe that anyone could reasonably expect ANY president's curve would be a rather straight line up like a Ferrari's tachometer under full throttle, but I would reasonably expect there not be so many hiccups with any administration governing the USA. I would also submit that it is a reasonable expectation that more professionalism be exhibited in Washington, DC. Unfortunately, politics has manifested itself into just another 'big business'.

Back to Rudy; it seems that BN747 has a lot more insight into New York City politics than I do, so as an outsider, I'll not offer any opinions other than repeat what I have previously said about thinking he handled his city's crises in an admirable way and should be applauded without reservation. Regards...Jack
all best; jack
 
BN747
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RE: Mayor Giuliani, NYC

Thu May 20, 2004 2:24 pm

I don't miss much on the national scene Jack, but when Rudy was 'da' mayor'.. he had something cooking almost weekly.. it was as if he had his own daily paper -- about him-- when you're making that much news, you gobble up all the good news but there's no way you're escaping the bad. And he & the Donna Hanover debacle was not pretty.. Da' mayor did the wrong thing and handled it badly.. it set a terrible example. If he has a sense of timing this was good time to invoke it.


BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
L-188
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RE: Mayor Giuliani, NYC

Thu May 20, 2004 2:26 pm

Boy, I never would have figured BN747 a follower of New York Tabloids.

I personally am not, so I apparently don't have that harsh citizim that BN747 and Alpha1 have.

I still think it was fated that Gulianni ended up serving out his second term rather then go on to the Senate.

Coincidence is an excuse to not believe in the higher cause.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
BN747
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RE: Mayor Giuliani, NYC

Thu May 20, 2004 3:16 pm

I'll say it for him since he doesn't have the cajones...

Fact:
Clinton cheated on his wife...

Fact:
Guiliani cheated on his wife and wanted to throw the wife and kids out of Gracie Mansion and move-in with his bimbo.

Judge for yourself which is worse...

there.. that's something a true two-faced hypocrite could never bring himself to say.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
L-188
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RE: Mayor Giuliani, NYC

Thu May 20, 2004 3:57 pm

YAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Is BN747 still here?

What does Clinton have to do with Gulianni?

OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Mayor Giuliani, NYC

Thu May 20, 2004 11:16 pm

"the 9/11 families don't think so"

Since when do the 9/11 bitches become experts and know exactly what happened that it's all Giuliani's fault?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
777236ER
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RE: Mayor Giuliani, NYC

Thu May 20, 2004 11:19 pm

9/11 bitches

I think it's quite insulting you call the families of those who died on September 11th 2001 "9/11 bitches".
Your bone's got a little machine
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Mayor Giuliani, NYC

Thu May 20, 2004 11:28 pm

"I think it's quite insulting you call the families of those who died on September 11th 2001 "9/11 bitches"

I'm only referring to the so called 9/11 widows who have become media whores for no good reason. I'm also referring to the bitch that screamed during Giuliani's questioning that he was somehow the murderer and behind her son's death. She has no right, no reason, no rationale to make that statement, and for that she's a 9/11 bitch. Just because you're a victim doesn't make you less of an idiot if you make statements like that. Being a victim of 9/11 doesn't endow you with magical powers to know exactly what happened.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
777236ER
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RE: Mayor Giuliani, NYC

Thu May 20, 2004 11:31 pm

I'm only referring to the so called 9/11 widows who have become media whores for no good reason. I'm also referring to the bitch that screamed during Giuliani's questioning that he was somehow the murderer and behind her son's death. She has no right, no reason, no rationale to make that statement, and for that she's a 9/11 bitch. Just because you're a victim doesn't make you less of an idiot if you make statements like that. Being a victim of 9/11 doesn't endow you with magical powers to know exactly what happened.

You should have said that - you definatly implied that everyone who suffered from 9/11 was a "9/11 bitch".
Your bone's got a little machine
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Mayor Giuliani, NYC

Thu May 20, 2004 11:36 pm

"You should have said that - you definatly implied that everyone who suffered from 9/11 was a "9/11 bitch"."

Nope, just the 9/11 whores who are using their victimhood to push their 'I-Hate-Bush' agenda. I kinda assumed that everyone knew about the 9/11 widows (a specific bunch) and would make the connection. Mea culpa.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
VSlover
Posts: 1860
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RE: Mayor Giuliani, NYC

Thu May 20, 2004 11:39 pm

a few things about this thread:

1--giuliani dropped from the senate race upon being diagnosed with prostate cancer

2--its not as though donna "i have my own affairs" hanover was a saint either

3--a majority of the people killed in the towers were not $100K-plus income makers. for every person who makes that kind of money, look at how many support staff there is pulling in so little. so yeah, these people who are fighting for millions--it is a lot for them

4--people pick and chose their battles, and many of the people like the woman yelling at giulianis hearing still obviously have a need to direct their anger somewhere. hope it helps her overcome what she needs to.

5--i was directly affected by 9/11 and i'm a bitch. so i guess that makes me a 9/11 bitch.

cheers,
j
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Mayor Giuliani, NYC

Fri May 21, 2004 12:22 am

Maverick is just made because those people have the nerve to bash a true Republican hero like Rudi.

Again, had a Democratic mayor or Prez had been in office, our esteemed members of the right on here would have called for their crucifixion, not their cannonization.
 
FDXmech
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RE: Mayor Giuliani, NYC

Fri May 21, 2004 1:13 am

Alpha, I and many others thought Giuliani would make a good President pre-9/11.
His leadership (admittedly, along with his ego) was stunning in a city long, and I do mean long considered ungovernable.

Good question in regards to FDR, though.
A man whose leadership guided us thru the Great Depression and WW2 potentially unelectable in more, enlightened times, due to his handicap being an issue.
FDR was a "Great Communicator" in those days though I wonder how he would've come across (forgetting his polio) in todays more aggresive on the spot journalism.

Bush would definitely be looked upon more favorablely in the earlier age mass media.
You're only as good as your last departure.
 
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STT757
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RE: Mayor Giuliani, NYC

Fri May 21, 2004 1:37 am

"And I love all this post-facto 9/11 love-in with Rudi, who was considered, at best, an average mayor before 9/11"

This is really not accurate, the fact is prior to 9-11 NY'ers had great admiration for Rudy. People might have had problems with the heavy handedness of some police officers but everyone was happy with the results.

Rudy was consider the best Mayor NYC ever had even before his second term, the turn around of the NYC economy and the morale of NY'ers was amazing.

Even AL Sharpton said what he did for the City (prior to 9-11) was remarkable, he and the former Mayor's other detractors were critical of the tactics police used which lead to some incidents where police got out of line.

Rudy was a rising star before 9-11, as Federal District Attorney for the Southern District of NY Rudy was instrumental in bringing down the Mofia in NYC as well as nailing several Wall Street Inside traders and Junk bond crooks like Micheal Milken.

He not only has the temperment but also the charisma needed to be an excellent President, World Leaders from all over came to NYC after 9-11 to praise the Former Mayor. French President Jaques Chirac came to NY and declared that the people of France had knick named the Mayor "Rudy the Great".

He has alot of respect in this Country and from Foreign leaders, he's also someone (along with John Mcain) to bring the Republican party back to the Middle.

Remember Republican Mayor Rudy Giuliannin endorsed Democrat Mario Cuomo for re-election as Governor for the State of NY, he even campaigned for the Democrat only to see the former Govenor lose to current Republican Governor George Pataki to whom Giualianni had a cold relationship with untill a reconsiliation of 9-11.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
BN747
Posts: 5344
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RE: Mayor Giuliani, NYC

Fri May 21, 2004 2:34 am

a few things about this thread:

1--giuliani dropped from the senate race upon being diagnosed with prostate cancer


Yeah.. he announced that just as he was being labeled a cretin for cheating and bailing out on his marriage. He needed to stop the cascade of shame coming at him from all directions. Hey, wait.. we haven't heard a word about it since then... hmmm. It must have miracously disappeared. He's everywhere except anywhere speaking out on health issues...

2--its not as though donna "i have my own affairs" hanover was a saint either

Yeah when... and while Rudy was trying to toss her the kids out? Facts would help here.

3--a majority of the people killed in the towers were not $100K-plus income makers. for every person who makes that kind of money, look at how many support staff there is pulling in so little. so yeah, these people who are fighting for millions--it is a lot for them

Now you're talking out of your ass and haven't been watching any coverage.. the people speaking out and attending every panel/session on 9/11 are clearly very educated and well-heeled citizens. It comes across quite clearly who's legitimately concerned about what's going on and who isn't.. and just like some of these people you speak of.. you are clearly not coming across as someone following this issue closely at all.

4--people pick and chose their battles, and many of the people like the woman yelling at Giuliani's hearing still obviously have a need to direct their anger somewhere. hope it helps her overcome what she needs to.

Besides being a flight attendant now you're a psychiatrist and anger management specialist too? You're claim of 'being directly affected by 9/11' holds as about as much water. These people are up against more powerful forces -- like the White House-- who wants them to shut up and go away. And in the face of those odds.. you'd better draw as much attention to the cause as you can.. in any way you can.

If at anytime you (VSlover) ever had sympathy for these people.. it has clearly waned. It's now a distant memory for you and any others who's chosen to bash these people. As for Maverick, he's made a legend out of himself here at being an certified idiot.. so no one takes him seriously. As for your waning interest, this quite typical of individuals who lack any deep concern for anything meaningful. These hardcore supporters troops in Iraq will follow your path in the not too distant future, by completely disengaging and turning their backs on the 'hero' troops when they return to the states.. just as you've dislodged any feelings about those who lost on 9/11.

5--i was directly affected by 9/11 and i'm a bitch. so i guess that makes me a 9/11 bitch.

Umm .. all of America was affected 9/11. but to the degree that these people have? HA! That's not a grouping you fit into. If you had lost a family member you would have said so... and not the ignorant shit you wrote above. If you enjoy calling yourself a bitch ... have at it, knock yourself out! But if you have to reduce yourself to endorsing the nonsense of an loser like Maverick... you might want to find a more suitable adjective.


BN747

"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
VSlover
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RE: Mayor Giuliani, NYC

Fri May 21, 2004 6:55 am

HAHA, i dont endorse others. i am old enough to make my own "brash generalizations."

it doesnt take take the loss of just a family member to be able to state i was directly affected by 9/11. yeah, i lost a friend, yeah i was running away from a falling tower, yeah i saw with my own eyes such brutal things i should never wish another person to ever see. but because it wasnt a family member doesnt lessen the value of my feelings on the subject in the least.

its not as though people who have an opinion on these matters needs any qualification to do so. and no, i dont have sympathy for anyone. boo hoo, we all experience hardships, i'm not going to cry over spilled milk if its yours or mine. dont know where you got the flight attendant thing from...but anyhow...tossing donna hanover and her teenage kinds out on the street...OOPS, i mean lux high rise upper east side apartment with $8,000/month in support, before she won a $6.8MM settlement, in addition to equitable division? yes, POOR THEM, i'm sure they are struggling ALL THE WAY TO THE BANK.

also, if you lived in NYC around the time he had prostate issues, you would also have seen shortly thereafter how he was able to overcome his prostate cancer through a series of treatments, but that must has been over shadowed by something, what was it? oh yeah, 9/11.

you see, its not that i lack concern for anything meaningful, its just this is not meaningful to me. and i was there! i have experienced plenty to bring me down and keep me there, but you know what? what is the point? who is it for? if 9/11 taught me anything, its that this life is WAY too precious to be down at any time, to let anyone try and get the best of you and there is not enough time to go out there and try and make the best of it for yourself and those you care deeply for. its all about love. love for yourself, and love and appreciation for those around you.
 
mark777300
Posts: 377
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RE: Mayor Giuliani, NYC

Fri May 21, 2004 7:17 am

Being a resident of NY, I strongly sympathize with the families who lost loved ones on 9/11, as I too lost friends. But I still don't understand what are these so called answers that the families are looking for??? As Horrific as that day was, there is nothing you can simply do that will bring them back or change the future. Guliani did a marvelous job while in office, and he handled himself like not only a proffessional and a leader, but he made himself as one of us New Yorkers, and it affected him as much as it affected any Warm-blooded New Yorker on that day. But to criticize the Fire Dept, Police Dept, and EMS is absolutley dispicable from the families. They went in those burning buildings trying to save lives, and many did, and many others died while attempting to do just that! Giuliani said it right when he said that the blame should be on the terroists, not anyone else! Under any other circumstance, the outcome would not have been much better. I just don't know what these people want. And as for that lady who lost her Firefighter son, I sympathize for her loss, But he was a firefighter who puts his life on the line everyday of his life, now suddenly he was just simply murdered as she said??? Everyone who died that day was murdered, but not Giuliani, not the FDNY, not the NYPD, not even the US government could have made this event less dramatic. You can't just simply stop these fascists from comminting these horriffic crimes! If they want to commit mass murder, you'll be surprise at how easily they will do it. So lets stop playing the blame game. We can't change the past, we can't bring people back, we can't erase what happened.
 
BN747
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RE: Mayor Giuliani, NYC

Fri May 21, 2004 11:08 am

Mark, the quest of the 9/11 families is to seek out who really failed here. They want and deserve someone to be held accountable so that they don't lose another family member. We really don't care that much because we didn't lose anyone. If were to lose someone tomorrow in a similar way, the 1st thing you're gonna do is align yourself with the 9/11 families groups or something like it. You certainly aren't gonna take the gov't explanation that 'Oh.. we fucked up and it won't happen again...' and go walking away. Who knows you might... (VSLover claims.. well nevermind, that friend obviously wasn't all that important anyway.. I hope all his friends know where they stand.. they don't mean shit to him). What the 9/11 families are experiencing is people dodging responsibility, pointing fingers and dodging answers all over the place. The gov't who initially gave these people extra-ordinary considerations.. all of a sudden slam the door shut on their questions. They in turn suspect fowl play somewhere.. somehow. What no one seems able to answer is .. 'why would the gov't do all it can to impede the investigations into the deaths of their family members.' Without national security issues at stake.. it makes no sense. There's a lot at stake for them, it's called a piece of mind.. if I were in their shoes, I'd want it.. esp. with all the bullshit being thrown all around them.

As for VSLovers, yeah, you lost someone, yeah you ran from falling debris ( I doubt this -- he'll I doubt all of it). You come of as way to dismissive, that's great you disgard sympathy for your 'dead friend' and his family.. but it says alot about you. It says you're thoroughly confused. First you say...

You say you have no sympathy..

and then you say..

its all about love. love for yourself, and love and appreciation for those around you.

That's a glaringly bad contradiction and makes no sense whatsoever. Sympathy is born out of love and displayed in concern. Just remember you reap what you sow.

Where the hell is Rudy gonna get 6 million bucks? His book didn't that well and being mayor of NYC don't even come close that.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
VSlover
Posts: 1860
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RE: Mayor Giuliani, NYC

Fri May 21, 2004 11:54 am

blah blah blah.

i dont really care if you believe me or not. i know what i lived through.

i must be confused, thanks. that clears up a lot for me actually.

i should have just come on these message boards instead of my months of therapy and meds to escape from a serious depression! would have saved lots of money that way.


clarification: when i say "this is not meaningful to me. " I refer to this thread.

[Edited 2004-05-21 04:59:21]
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
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RE: Mayor Giuliani, NYC

Fri May 21, 2004 12:13 pm

Alpha, I and many others thought Giuliani would make a good President pre-9/11.

That's not my problem, friend.  Wink/being sarcastic

Bush would definitely be looked upon more favorablely in the earlier age mass media.

Only in an age before radio and TV.

And another thought. Do you think Abraham Lincoln could be elected in this day and age? I mean, yes, Abe would look a bit different,but, from all accounts, he had a quite voice for a man who was 6'4", and was, from accounts, a bit of a goof.

Amazing, that two of our three greats may not have been "electable" today. Maybe the problem isn't FDR and Abe-maybe it's what we consider "electable" these days?
 
bigphilnyc
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RE: Mayor Giuliani, NYC

Fri May 21, 2004 1:33 pm

Rudy's marriage didn't workout. Then he got a girlfriend. Maybe not the most moral thing, but that happens, and he handled it well I thought.

Bill Clinton got head in the Oval Office, and then lied about it under oath.

I don't think all the Repubs that complained about Clinton cared that he cheated on his wife, I think it's more about where he did it and that he committed a federal offense when he lied about it.

Obviously convenient for anyone to gloss over the good thigns he did for the city and jsut concentrate on aspects of his personal life. VERY convenient.

The man turned this damn city around, and if you didn't live here during Dinkins, you couldn't possibly understand what he did for this place.

If you disagree you cna go chase ambulances with Al Sharpton.
Phil Derner Jr.
 
mark777300
Posts: 377
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RE: Mayor Giuliani, NYC

Fri May 21, 2004 2:40 pm

To:BN747

I could understand that the families want answers and to hold someone accountable, but they're going to the wrong people. Giuliani would have never known that this sort of catastrophe would occur. That the US government had any knowledge of this ahead of 9/11 is the question of century. No city on this Earth would have been able to cope with a tragedy of this magnitude any more affective than what the FDNY, NYPD and EMS was able to accomplish. Yes, communication was poor, but what would you expect would occur under these severe circumstances? As I said before, i lost a few friends and family friends in those buildings, but no family members, but I can still feel the pain that many of these families are experiencing. I don't take anything away from them, but Giuliani is not making excuses. He was just your lowly mayor, not even Governor Pataki would have been worthy to receive any useful information from the FBI and the Federal Government. They either kept it to themselves, or that they didn't take the threat serious enough to warrant tighter securities at airports countrywide. Regardless, as sad as it sounds, they will never get the answers that they are looking for.
 
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JeffM
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RE: Mayor Giuliani, NYC

Fri May 21, 2004 3:05 pm

"1--giuliani dropped from the senate race upon being diagnosed with prostate cancer

...... Hey, wait.. we haven't heard a word about it since then... hmmm. It must have miracously disappeared."


Talk about one of the most stupid responses.....
 
BN747
Posts: 5344
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

RE: Mayor Giuliani, NYC

Fri May 21, 2004 3:33 pm

VS,

Ahh the theraphy and meds.. well that explains everything... Yeesh! You'll never be the same.

JeffM,

yank yank..

Phil, I don't know what he turned around... I do know he took a hose to 42nd Street and made Times Square look like DisneyLand -- which sucks IMHO! I like it better when porn shops were every 3 feet, you had to 'carefully look down any street' before proceeding.. that eerie suspense made NY.. New York! Heaven forbid LA ever becomes Orange County.... I'd have to move. The New York Post is available here on a daily basis.. from time to time I check it out and what do I see? The same weird ass crimes occuring almost daily, the just recent revelation of 'ANOTHER' cop admitting they were stealing drugs from the dealers and evidence rooms and making a mint in the process (is this becoming a monthly thing now?). At least since Guiliani left there hasn't been any unarmed innocent minorities shot in hallways, plungers shoved up thier asses or wrongly and zealously convicted of crimes they didn't commit. If fact the wrongs done under Rudy have now been righted under a new regime. So just what has he turned around exactly? Besides 42nd street? Don't get me wrong, you won't find a non-NY'ker who loves NYC like I do.. if they had LA weather, I would have been there 25 years ago!

This isn't love/hate NYC thread.. so Back to Rudy,

Mark what you're missing is there is evidence that the Feds had more evidence than they're letting on.. various FBI offices are placing blame on each other. Evidence is even suggesting that even up to Bush's level.. everything was pointing at exactly what occured on 9/11. And you better believe if the city officials had the same info that Rice, Bush and Cheney had... after the 1st hit.. everyone would have known the city was under attack and deaths would have been greatly minimized... people leaving the second Tower would have left permanently and never returned to their offices.. like many did. That's the difference.


BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
MD-90
Posts: 7835
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RE: Mayor Giuliani, NYC

Fri May 21, 2004 3:48 pm

Remember, it wasn't really, until the President came back from Yalta in 1945, and, in remarks to a session of Congress said something like "I hope you don't mind if I make this speech sitting down, but I've just traveled 10,000 miles with 20 lbs of steel on my legs, and I'm quite exhausted", or something to that effect-that was the first MOST Americans knew that he couldn't walk without help!

History proves Alpha 1 wrong about this, however. All Americans knew FDR had suffered from polio. But news reporters of the time did not dwell on such things the way they sordidly do nowadays. But every American knew about it, anyway.
 
BN747
Posts: 5344
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

RE: Mayor Giuliani, NYC

Fri May 21, 2004 4:05 pm

Matt, There's a thread running right now called 'FBI warns of suicide attacks'.. now if city gov'ts knew [not the general public like the other thread is suggesting-- but I'm talking just local gov't agencies] if they had been passed on info of what the FBI, CIA and White House knew in August 2001.. 9/11 could have had a completely different outcome. It's been established the evidence even suggest planes would be used and potential targets ' include the WTC' among many others. But no one is responsible.. yeah right.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
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STT757
Posts: 13223
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RE: Mayor Giuliani, NYC

Fri May 21, 2004 10:48 pm

"I do know he took a hose to 42nd Street and made Times Square look like DisneyLand -- which sucks IMHO! I like it better when porn shops were every 3 feet, you had to 'carefully look down any street' before proceeding.. that eerie suspense made NY.. New York!"

Actually your wrong, the Times Square you are refering to was a victim of neglect from the 1960s through the 1980s. What Giulianni did in the early 1990s is to RESTORE the GREAT WHITE WAY to it's original purpose and grandeur, the porn shops etc. were recent issues since the late 1960s.

If you visited Times Square in the 1930s , 40s, 50s it would look much as it does today. Huge innovative bilboards and lots of small thearters and clubs attracting tourists from all over the World, that's what Times Square is about. Times Square has been restored to it's original purpose, no longer neglected.

And NYC is a huge City, and accidents still do happen. There have been a couple recent incidents where Police Officers have accidentaly shot kids playing on rooftops with guns, with such a huge city unfortunately things like that will happen from time to time.

BTW..

Los Angeles's Police Chief is former NYPD, as is Philadephia's and Miami's.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
BN747
Posts: 5344
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

RE: Mayor Giuliani, NYC

Sat May 22, 2004 5:23 am

If you visited Times Square in the 1930s , 40s, 50s it would look much as it does today. Huge innovative bilboards and lots of small thearters and clubs attracting tourists from all over the World, that's what Times Square is about. Times Square has been restored to it's original purpose, no longer neglected.

Uhh STT757.

You're wrong, NYC in the 30s-50s wasn't the stand out it became until the 60s and that style of architecture took the skyline to where it is today. In the 60s-70s.. New York City left no doubt that it is the crown achievement of modern man's will to advance at break neck speed. From that point on.. it clearly left London, Paris behind as a world class cities and never looked back.

Plus in the 1930-50s the US officially had censorship in effect which effected movies/tv and .. you'd better believe porn shops were out of the question. So along with 60's arrived the infamous X-rated strip along and around 42nd St. That's a New York I'm very glad I got to experience (in the 80s actually) not so much for the porn/peeps.. but just for the grungy, gritty atmosphere amid the wealth and glamor of Park Ave and 5th Ave... that begrugingly co-existed back then.


BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson

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