MaverickM11
Topic Author
Posts: 15326
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Lebanese Army Kills 5 Protesters

Fri May 28, 2004 2:51 am

E pur si muove -Galileo
 
leviticus
Posts: 1016
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 7:34 am

RE: Lebanese Army Kills 5 Protesters

Fri May 28, 2004 2:58 am

It is pure evil to shoot at protesters, but then again, they should not complain with such anger when other countries have many times higher prices.
 
CaptOveur
Posts: 6064
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 3:13 am

RE: Lebanese Army Kills 5 Protesters

Fri May 28, 2004 3:09 am

I am waiting to see how long it takes before someone blames all this on the US or Israel. Any bets?
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
leviticus
Posts: 1016
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 7:34 am

RE: Lebanese Army Kills 5 Protesters

Fri May 28, 2004 3:14 am

Captoveur, four or five more posts. Before the end of the day someone will state that those protesters really were undercover mossad agents, sneaked into Lebanon only to create chaos  Big grin
 
CedarWings
Posts: 195
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 6:18 am

RE: Lebanese Army Kills 5 Protesters

Fri May 28, 2004 3:44 am

It is a sad day for Lebanon.

I ask everybody on this forum not to take advantage of this tragic event to show disrespect to my country.

Accidents and tragedies do happen everywhere, and there is for sure a better way to express your feelings other than this way.

Regards.


I didn't say it would be easy. I just said it would be the truth
 
jutes85
Posts: 1854
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:50 pm

RE: Lebanese Army Kills 5 Protesters

Fri May 28, 2004 3:50 am

I ask everybody on this forum not to take advantage of this tragic event to show disrespect to my country.

Accidents and tragedies do happen everywhere, and there is for sure a better way to express your feelings other than this way.


Oh STFU. When the IDF shot, on purpose or not, those Palestinians in the GS, you guys went nuts!

Hypocrite.
nothing
 
david b.
Posts: 2894
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 7:18 pm

RE: Lebanese Army Kills 5 Protesters

Fri May 28, 2004 3:57 am

Oh STFU. When the IDF shot, on purpose or not, those Palestinians in the GS, you guys went nuts!

Hypocrite.


Grow the hell up
Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
 
CedarWings
Posts: 195
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 6:18 am

RE: Lebanese Army Kills 5 Protesters

Fri May 28, 2004 3:58 am

Jutes,

Don't ever try to compare the Lebanese Army to the IDF.

Killing of innocents is not and will be never a proper way to deal with protesting people. In contrary to the IDF, The Lebanese soldiers involved in shooting of these innocent people acted without orders from their superiors and they are now under interrogation and they will be punished accordingly.




I didn't say it would be easy. I just said it would be the truth
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: Lebanese Army Kills 5 Protesters

Fri May 28, 2004 4:03 am

Shooting at protestors is wrong whether it's the Israeli army or Lebanese army shooting.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
CaptOveur
Posts: 6064
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 3:13 am

RE: Lebanese Army Kills 5 Protesters

Fri May 28, 2004 4:09 am

5 posts... thats what was predicted....


Why don't both sides of this debate grow the hell up and stop flaming each other whenever one group blows up another over a miserable strip of desert nobody really wants anyway.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
jcs17
Posts: 7376
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2001 11:13 am

RE: Lebanese Army Kills 5 Protesters

Fri May 28, 2004 4:20 am

Does this mean we get a week of respite from the posts from the Lebanese Board of Tourism?
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
CedarWings
Posts: 195
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 6:18 am

RE: Lebanese Army Kills 5 Protesters

Fri May 28, 2004 5:00 am

JCS,

What happened in Beirut today was supposed to be a regular and peaceful protest.

Lebanon is a democratic country, where people are used to protest and express their thoughts publicly and loudly. Unfortunately, this wasn't the case today, as some undisciplined soldiers braked the rule and acted as stated above.

This accident occured in one of Beirut suburban areas where I myself have never been there in my whole life.

Neither Israel, nor the Palestinians has anything to do with this tragedy.
It is just an accident,and accidents happen anytime and everywhere.

Tourists today were everywhere enjoying my country's wonderful cities and historical sites, I doubt they have even heard anything about this issue.

The soldiers involved in the shooting are in custody, and they will be sued and punished accordingly.

Tomorrow will be a usual perfect and sunny day.

[Edited 2004-05-27 22:06:06]
I didn't say it would be easy. I just said it would be the truth
 
OD720
Posts: 1856
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 6:46 am

RE: Lebanese Army Kills 5 Protesters

Fri May 28, 2004 5:58 am

It is wrong to shoot at protesters. Even if it's the Lebanese army, we the Lebanese blame it and hope that those responsible will be punished.
 
tbar220
Posts: 6706
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 12:08 pm

RE: Lebanese Army Kills 5 Protesters

Fri May 28, 2004 7:44 am

Its wrong to shoot at protestors...yet it happens. I'm a firm believer that troops don't shoot at protestors for no reason. If the army was guarding the protest, and the protest gets violent to the point where they fear for their safety, then I can only imagine they would shoot.

And anyways, the Yahoo! article said that there were riots, and that 13 Lebanese soldiers were injured as well. So I would go so far as to say that the soldiers acted in their best interests to defend their own lives.

Cedarwings, correct me if I'm wrong.
NO URLS in signature
 
airxliban
Posts: 4285
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 12:14 pm

RE: Lebanese Army Kills 5 Protesters

Fri May 28, 2004 9:30 am

MEA310 was telling me that the tank is already at 22,000 for the tank i think. Its amazing how expensive fuel has become. Its a shame that we are so close to the gulf and the khalijis and saudis basically have invaded for their vacations and yet fuel is so expensive.

How much is the tank now?
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
AA777
Posts: 2358
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 7:07 am

RE: Lebanese Army Kills 5 Protesters

Fri May 28, 2004 11:03 am

Captoveur,

You call this land a Miserable Strip of desert that "no one really wants anyway". Yes, that must be why Israelis are sending tanks and helicopters blowing up buildings and bulldozing homes. That MUST be why Palestinians are killing themselves along with israelis. Have you ever BEEN to any of these places?? I imagine not. If someone were to come to you today and tell you to leave your home, you wouldnt stand for it. You would fight, I suppose. This land was people's livelihoods, their history, their culture, their religious holy grounds. How could you even say such things? This world is a big big place, much bigger than the United States, and I suggest that you realize that real quick. Travel there, and watch the people. Its in there eyes, how much they love that land, they are willing to live through hell, because thats what their home, and NOBODY should be forced to leave their home. I agree that both sides should grow up, but how do you tell two chilren, one bigger than the other, the other with more conviction, to stop fighting? Its quite difficult to do as time has proven.

-AA777
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: Lebanese Army Kills 5 Protesters

Fri May 28, 2004 11:10 am

Jutes,

Don't ever try to compare the Lebanese Army to the IDF.


Yes, the IDF knows how to win wars. I don't know of an Arab nation that knows how to win jack on the battlefield.  Big grin

This accident....

ACCIDENT?

ACCIDENT?

Why is it when the IDF does it, it's called a slaughter, or a holocaust, or a crime against humanity, but when an Arab army does it to Arabs, it's an "accident."

Jesus, talk about your hypocrisy!!!
 
AA777
Posts: 2358
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 7:07 am

RE: Lebanese Army Kills 5 Protesters

Fri May 28, 2004 11:17 am

When does anyone from the U.S. call what the IDF a holocaust? Its always, "...rooting out terrorists..."..."....HAD to fire missiles into the gaza strip to kill Terrorists..." Then, my favorite part (sarcasm here) is when they news people mention in passing, "Three men were killed, along with a three year old child and her mother." As if its nothing... Not that they should be Crying or saying 'dam* the israelis..." but they act like its no big deal... sick...

-AA777
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13916
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Lebanese Army Kills 5 Protesters

Fri May 28, 2004 11:31 am

I´m getting fed up off the Israel/Palaestine threads.

To the people on both sides:
1) Face it, no side will be getting rid of the other side without a ethnic cleansng, which will not be tolerated anymore.
This means, neither will the Israeli Jews be pushed into the sea nor will the Arabs be sent to Jordania.

2) Both countries are small and depend heavily on foreign aid. The aid for Israel is mostly coming from the US, while the Palaestinians are receiving aid from the gulf states and the EU. Left alone by themselves they would not be able to sustain themselves. It would make more sense in having a federation or a common state set up.

3) In the long run the Palaestinians and the Israelis need each other. They are neighbours and, even though there has been a series of wars, are closely connected.

My opinion: Kick the selfrighteous radicals out on each side. They need each other to stay in power, on the expenses of their own population. As long as there is a war going on, nobody in Palaestine is going to check wghat happened to the EU money given to Arafat´s government (though there is EU invetigation going on. For myself, I don´t like to see my tax money being spent on Mrs. Arafat´s shopping trips)
Nobody is going to check on Mr. Sharon´s shady deals.

GET SOME COMMON SENSE!

Jan (putting on flame suit)
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Lebanese Army Kills 5 Protesters

Fri May 28, 2004 12:57 pm

Sorry the comparisons are inevitable. Not that I really want to be taking shots, but they are going to occur.

How much negative press did this get in the Arab media compared to say, if the IDF shot 5 people.

Why is it that this incident can be handled internally by the LDF, but when the USA is accused of stripping prisoners naked in Iraq, without deaths, Everybody complains that the US is prosecuting their own troops not the UN?

OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
tbar220
Posts: 6706
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 12:08 pm

RE: Lebanese Army Kills 5 Protesters

Fri May 28, 2004 1:13 pm

Why is this turning into a Israel-Palestine thread?
NO URLS in signature
 
OD720
Posts: 1856
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 6:46 am

RE: Lebanese Army Kills 5 Protesters

Fri May 28, 2004 3:40 pm

You're right Tbar220, this shouldn't turn into another Arab-Israel thread, there are enough already both in the non-av and Civil av forums.

As you say, some soldiers were wounded before they started firing live bullets but none of the wounds seem to have been life threatening.
They could have used tear gas instead or rubber bullets. Tear gas is the most widely used by the Lebanese police during demonstrations.
This brings up another question, why was the Army deployed in that region instead of the police in the first place?

Anyhow, we read this morning that an investigation is under way.

Air Liban,
20 litres costs 23,000 LP today which comes to $.77 per litre for the 98 octane.

 
Horus
Posts: 5131
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 1:04 am

RE: Lebanese Army Kills 5 Protesters

Fri May 28, 2004 6:02 pm

AA777, you hit the nail on the head. Breat Analysis  Big thumbs up
EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
CedarWings
Posts: 195
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 6:18 am

RE: Lebanese Army Kills 5 Protesters

Fri May 28, 2004 9:46 pm

Alpha1,

Why is it when the IDF does it, it's called a slaughter, or a holocaust, or a crime against humanity, but when an Arab army does it to Arabs, it's an "accident." ACCIDENT?

According to the Webster:

Accident = an unforeseen and unplanned event or circumstance.

In Lebanon, this accident happened once, and all the Lebanese worldwide have condemned it, in addition, the soldiers responsible of this act are already in custody.

In Israel, this type of accidents are planned operations, they happen everyday, and sometimes they last few days and even weeks.
Soldiers who perform such killings are considered heros and sometimes they become prime ministers.
The Israeli people never condemns the IDF acts of killing innocent Palestinians.

For all these reasons, yes, the Israeli acts are considered "slaughter, or a holocaust, or a crime against humanity".





I didn't say it would be easy. I just said it would be the truth
 
galaxy5
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2000 10:09 pm

RE: Lebanese Army Kills 5 Protesters

Fri May 28, 2004 10:10 pm

It is a sad day for Lebanon.

I ask everybody on this forum not to take advantage of this tragic event to show disrespect to my country.

Accidents and tragedies do happen everywhere, and there is for sure a better way to express your feelings other than this way.

Regards.


It is wrong to shoot at protesters. Even if it's the Lebanese army, we the Lebanese blame it and hope that those responsible will be punished.

I hope that the next issue that comes out of Iraq,Israel or numerous other places around the world, That those of you that immediately go into a fervor and orgiastic display of USA bashing feel the same if it occurs.


"damn, I didnt know prince could Ball like that" - Charlie Murphy
 
Alessandro
Posts: 4962
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 3:13 am

RE: Lebanese Army Kills 5 Protesters

Fri May 28, 2004 11:42 pm

In my words accident is something that happens not on purpose, shooting is seldom accidently, shooting 5 people to death seem not like an accident.
Hope Lebanon learns something from this, like it learned from the Benin crash...

From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
jutes85
Posts: 1854
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:50 pm

RE: Lebanese Army Kills 5 Protesters

Sat May 29, 2004 2:46 am

Accident = an unforeseen and unplanned event or circumstance.

In Lebanon, this accident happened once, and all the Lebanese worldwide have condemned it, in addition, the soldiers responsible of this act are already in custody.


So the Lebanese Army "accidentally" shot them, the soldiers "accidentally" pulled the trigger.  Insane

For all these reasons, yes, the Israeli acts are considered "slaughter, or a holocaust, or a crime against humanity".

Typical nonsence and propaganda from the Arab nations of the middle-east.

Yes, the IDF knows how to win wars. I don't know of an Arab nation that knows how to win jack on the battlefield.

LOL  Big thumbs up
nothing
 
qr332
Posts: 2592
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:16 pm

RE: Lebanese Army Kills 5 Protesters

Sat May 29, 2004 3:44 am

L-188,
About the Arab media. When you start watching it you can comment on it, the Arab media reported this horrible event as much as it would with any other event, involving any country.

Now, PLEASE dont turn this into another Palestinian-Israeli thread.
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13916
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Lebanese Army Kills 5 Protesters

Sat May 29, 2004 6:26 am

QR, Cedarwings,

What is therole of the Lebanese military in internal affairs? In my country e.g. the military are not permitted to be involved in internal affairs, the only exception is humanitarian aid after disasters. Any crowd control and law enforcement is strictly the duty of the police, which makes sense since their´s is a different job: Capturing perpetrators and bringing them to a judge, while themilitary are trained to destroy the fighting ability of an armed oponent, including killing him if necessary.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: Lebanese Army Kills 5 Protesters

Sat May 29, 2004 6:40 am

Why is this turning into a Israel-Palestine thread?

Because everything does over here?
Some terrorist sympathiser will call it an Israeli plot or whatever and the shooting starts.

Just like the real world in fact, might be coincidence.
I wish I were flying
 
tbar220
Posts: 6706
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 12:08 pm

RE: Lebanese Army Kills 5 Protesters

Sat May 29, 2004 7:29 am

OD720,

Well I read in the news that there were riots in over half of Beirut, so I think its only appropriate to deploy the army to quell the situation. I figure Beirut is a pretty large city, so the country will do what it can to protect its citizens and their property.

When the riots and the protestors turned violent, and the soldiers lives were threatened as well as other civilian lives were threatened, I feel that they were justified in using the force that they did.

Tear gas and rubber bullets would have been better, but perhaps they had already used this and it wasn't stopping the protestors? Any word on this, I would only assume that tear gas was initially used.

I remember the L.A. riots and the fear our family felt for our own safety. If somebody tried to break into our home or hurt my family, I wouldn't hesitate for a second to allow the police/national guard to shoot them on the spot.
NO URLS in signature
 
Goose
Posts: 1771
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2003 3:40 am

RE: Lebanese Army Kills 5 Protesters

Sat May 29, 2004 8:31 am

I remember the L.A. riots and the fear our family felt for our own safety. If somebody tried to break into our home or hurt my family, I wouldn't hesitate for a second to allow the police/national guard to shoot them on the spot.

Uhm, what about using your own initiative and firearm to protect your family....? Instead of being dependant on someone else to protect you?
"Talk to me, Goose..."
 
jutes85
Posts: 1854
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:50 pm

RE: Lebanese Army Kills 5 Protesters

Sat May 29, 2004 10:18 am

I wouldn't hesitate for a second to allow the police/national guard to shoot them on the spot.

Yeah, I thought most Americans own firearms anyways. If someone entered my house illigally, especially in the US, I'd pop that cracker. Too bad here in Canada, if you shoot him you are charged with murder.
nothing
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: Lebanese Army Kills 5 Protesters

Sat May 29, 2004 12:11 pm

Uhm, what about using your own initiative and firearm to protect your family....? Instead of being dependant on someone else to protect you?

Maybe some of us just don't believe in owning the wretched things, is that a problem?

The chances of me EVER needing a firearm in my house are slim and none, and slim just left town.

More bad things can accidentally happen with them, than the chance you'd ever need it for protection.
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: Lebanese Army Kills 5 Protesters

Sat May 29, 2004 2:21 pm

well said, the US ALLOWS people to keep firearms in their homes, it doesn't REQUIRE it.

Switzerland DOES more or less require it, in that every reservist in the armed forces is issued with a weapon they keep at home.
As every conscript automatically becomes a reservist that means that every man of military age has a weapon unless he is excused from military service.

Everyone knows that and takes it seriously, I believe guncrime is low in the country in part because of that.
I wish I were flying
 
BA
Posts: 10134
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: Lebanese Army Kills 5 Protesters

Mon May 31, 2004 9:26 pm

My oh my............how uninformed people are.

People, these protesters had destroyed 3 Lebanese Army vehicles, set a government building on fire, and did a lot of other damage. The Lebanese Army responded and tried to stop the violent riot, and it appears they were forced to kill some protesters. Whether those protesters had to be killed or not is yet to be seen........

Don't blame the Lebanese Army for this. It's the Army's job to protect the stability of the country, even if it means killing some. As CedarWings mentioned, their are always peaceful protests on an almost weekly basis in Lebanon. This is the first one in a very long time that ended up being a violent riot.

The protesters attacked the Lebanese Army, not the other way around. As a result, the Lebanese Army fired back and killed 5 protesters.

Infact, many of the protesters were killed fighting between themselves. They were randomly shooting guns and they killed some of each other.

My gosh how misleading some articles can be...........
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
avi
Posts: 892
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2001 1:27 am

RE: Lebanese Army Kills 5 Protesters

Mon May 31, 2004 9:41 pm

It's the Army's job to protect the stability of the country, even if it means killing some.

I have no words..................................
Long live the B747
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Lebanese Army Kills 5 Protesters

Mon May 31, 2004 9:45 pm

well said, the US ALLOWS people to keep firearms in their homes, it doesn't REQUIRE it.

. Every citizen is a member of the militia after all, wether they acknoledge that fact or not.

I personally think that every American has an obligation to own a rifle capable of firing either 5.56, 7.63 or 9mm the standard NATO calibers and maintain a stockpile of ammo for the same. But I will credit people who maintan large store of non-US military ammo for weapons that fire the same.

I think in the next few years this will become critical, especially if GW is reelected. I would not surprise me to see some members of the arab states and the axis of evil band together and attempt to invade the mainland of the US.

Americans as citizens must be prepared to fight back.


Switzerland DOES more or less require it, in that every reservist in the armed forces is issued with a weapon they keep at home.
As every conscript automatically becomes a reservist that means that every man of military age has a weapon unless he is excused from military service.

Everyone knows that and takes it seriously, I believe guncrime is low in the country in part because of that.


Shoot, all crime is pretty low ins Switzerland. In many ways I wonder if part of that is from the dicipline a lot of it's males get during their conscript period.

Not saying that I want the draft back in the US, but it is an interesting point to argue.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
go canada!
Posts: 2886
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2001 1:33 am

RE: Lebanese Army Kills 5 Protesters

Tue Jun 01, 2004 12:42 am

"The Lebanese soldiers involved in shooting of these innocent people acted without orders from their superiors and they are now under interrogation and they will be punished accordingly."

That is what the IDF say.

"Lebanon is a democratic country, where people are used to protest and express their thoughts publicly and loudly."

Is it really.Is lebanon really a democracy?

"Don't blame the Lebanese Army for this. It's the Army's job to protect the stability of the country, even if it means killing some"

It is the Idf job to protect Israel.

"Infact, many of the protesters were killed fighting between themselves. They were randomly shooting guns and they killed some of each other."

Palestinians do this.Iraqis randomly shoot guns, however when either group dies suddenly its a human rights abuse and a massacre.

I do not support the Idf but I have to say the stench of hyprocrisy on here is strong.
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
go canada!
Posts: 2886
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2001 1:33 am

RE: Lebanese Army Kills 5 Protesters

Tue Jun 01, 2004 12:48 am

2 points to make:

1)Calling Lebanon and Arabic country is incorrect, calling them arabs is wrong.The country is full of many different enthic groups.

2) on Democracy :

"Syria is currently the major power in the country, but with the Israeli withdrawal there are growing calls for its troops to pull out too."
"Government structures are divided between the various groups. The country has also seen several large influxes of Palestinian refugees, most of whom still have limited legal status. "
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/country_profiles/791071.stm
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
BA
Posts: 10134
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: Lebanese Army Kills 5 Protesters

Tue Jun 01, 2004 12:55 am

Go Canada!

Why are you bringing Israel into this discussion? Is that all you have for an argument?

Actually Lebanon is an Arabic country. Only the Armenians and the Kurds are not Arabs, but they are only a very small minority and an even smaller percentage have Lebanese citizenship.

And yes, Lebanon is a democracy. Municipal elections in the East, South, and Beirut were already held. Today, elections in the North were held.

Elections for a new president is coming up. Under the Lebanese constitution, a president runs for a 6-year term and he cannot be reelected. Though this last rule may be changed.

About Syria, yes they do have a lot of control in Lebanon and that is because the Lebanese Army up until recently was insufficient to control the country.

There are 400,000 Palestinian refugees in Lebanon.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
go canada!
Posts: 2886
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2001 1:33 am

RE: Lebanese Army Kills 5 Protesters

Tue Jun 01, 2004 1:35 am

I would not label all lebanese as arabs, i also think the inference by that poster was that lebanon was also islamic.

Palestinian refugees have little democratic rights in lebanon.

"Why are you bringing Israel into this discussion? Is that all you have for an argument?"

I did not,i think you will find that the 3rd poster did that.

I do not see how people can condemm one form of shooting and not another.
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
BA
Posts: 10134
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: Lebanese Army Kills 5 Protesters

Tue Jun 01, 2004 1:51 am

I would not label all lebanese as arabs, i also think the inference by that poster was that lebanon was also islamic.

You do not have to be Muslim to be Arab nor do you have to be Arab to be Muslim. Lebanon is 60% Muslim and 40% Christian. But they are all Arabs except for the small Armenian and Kurdish population, most of whom are not Lebanese citizens and thus are not considered Lebanese.

Palestinian refugees have little democratic rights in lebanon.

True, and it is unfortunate. But remember that they are not citizens. They are guests in the country waiting to go back to their homes.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: Lebanese Army Kills 5 Protesters

Tue Jun 01, 2004 2:16 am

It's the Army's job to protect the stability of the country, even if it means killing some.

I should save this, BA, for the next time you denounce the IDF.

They are guests in the country waiting to go back to their homes.

So you treat them like crap hoping they will oneday go back to Israel? Keep dreaming..........Why don't you do something constructive? Like integrating them into society instead of using them as a pawn hoping for them to screw Israel over. If you refuse to do that, then you are just as guilty of screwing them over as Israel is. But this is for another thread.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
Goose
Posts: 1771
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2003 3:40 am

RE: Lebanese Army Kills 5 Protesters

Tue Jun 01, 2004 2:21 am

Alpha 1 wrote;
Maybe some of us just don't believe in owning the wretched things, is that a problem?

Not at all. It is the land of choice, after all - if you choose to trust your life, property and personal safety to someone who has a response time to an emergency which can climb into 20 to 30 minutes, depending on the time of day, that's fine.....

You're also depending on those people to "always be there," come flood, earthquake, hurricane, riot or anything else which man or nature throws you. Personnally, I go by the old Scouts' Motto......


The chances of me EVER needing a firearm in my house are slim and none, and slim just left town.


That's great.... I'm glad for you, that you live in a safe community, where crime is absolutely not a problem or a consideration. That's great for raising a family.


More bad things can accidentally happen with them, than the chance you'd ever need it for protection.


Hrm, well... I disagree with you on that fact, but then - I've taken weeks worth of courses on firearm safety. Probably more time in classrooms learning about how to properly handle guns, than on the range..................... well, maybe not............  Smile

But really, your (apparent) fear of guns is somewhat misplaced. I might be wrong, you might not be scared of them.... but I'm curious to know how much you've actually spent around them.

I only ask because, your opinions sound much like a family member of mine, a long while ago. She had never shot a gun, never actually seen one - yet held the same conceptions you do that they're prone to accidents, and so on. I encouraged her to take a firearms-safety course, and actually spend some time on a range. She did, found out her perceptions were wrong, and she grew to really enjoy shooting. Now, she loves going target shooting every other weekend.....
"Talk to me, Goose..."
 
OD720
Posts: 1856
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 6:46 am

RE: Lebanese Army Kills 5 Protesters

Tue Jun 01, 2004 2:22 am

This is the latest I have about the incident.

No police force was deployed in that region since there were not supposed to be any demonstrations there that day. The police were re-assigned to other parts of the city, where big numbers of protesters were expected.
Unexpectedly, a large number of protesters came out in the streets of the southern suburbs of Beirut where there was a very small force of Lebanese army soldiers with few motorized vehicles and APCs.
This army unit intervened to re-open blocked roads but the crowd was becoming violent and attacked them injuring many soldiers. This unit did not have anti-riot equipment and soon was outnumbered. Soldiers felt that their lives were in danger and started firing warning shots which didn't help but only worsened the situation. It was then that few soldiers fired directly into the crowd in panic.

We see many demonstrations here but this was the first time that something as tragic as this happened. I live very close to the US embassy here and we see the police dealing with protesters every once in a while. No injuries.


BA,

Almost all Armenians in Lebanon are Lebanese citizens. Major influx of Armenian refugees occured between 1918-1923, right before the creation of the state of Lebanon (vive la France!). This is how Lebanese of Armenian ancestory have six permenant seats in the parliament.

Lebanon is a democracy. Members of the paliament are elected by the people every 5 years. The parliament elects a President every 6 years. I would be happy to answer any questions if anyone needs to know anything more.

Best regards.
 
OD720
Posts: 1856
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 6:46 am

RE: Lebanese Army Kills 5 Protesters

Tue Jun 01, 2004 2:33 am

Rjpieces,

The Palestenians can not be integrated into the Lebanese society because Lebanese Christians will never accept it. For them, this will mean even greater Muslim majority in the country.

In fact, a few years ago a few thousand Palestenians (less than 10,000) were able to get Lebanese citizenship through a law adopted then. Now the Christians have succeeded to outlaw this and these Palestenians will lose their citizenship soon.

It's a delicate society and needs better understanding. Lebanese Christians want the Palestenians to go back and are not in any mood to offer any favors to the Israelis.
 
Krushny
Posts: 756
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2000 4:22 am

Lebanese Army Kills 5 Protesters

Tue Jun 01, 2004 4:56 pm

Thanks, OD720. So Palestinians are not integrated in Lebanon because of the Christians, if I understand it because of their own interests; screwing Israel is just a side effect of that.
That blows the Weltanschauung of Rjpieces and other pro-Israel radicals here (Muslims = BAD, Christians&Jews = GOOD) . The Middle East never ceases to amaze me, it is quite a complicated place and I find funny how some guys in America and Europe speak so happily and uninformedly speak about who is right and who is wrong there .

[Edited 2004-06-01 09:56:59]
 
Tubbyboeing
Posts: 135
Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 9:06 am

RE: Lebanese Army Kills 5 Protesters

Tue Jun 01, 2004 5:18 pm

Uhm, what about using your own initiative and firearm to protect your family....? Instead of being dependant on someone else to protect you?

Amen to that Goose  Big thumbs up

Getting back to the topic, this thread is crazy. The Israeli - Arab thing (sorry...but I dunno what else to call it) has been going on for what...something like 60 years?? And I am sure that it will go on for another goddamn 60 years...no point in discussing these threads here, we can all discuss our heads off...nothing will change.
 
Alessandro
Posts: 4962
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 3:13 am

RE: Lebanese Army Kills 5 Protesters

Tue Jun 01, 2004 6:42 pm

OD720, as we both know the SLA (mainly christian) left the security zone in South Lebanon, many of them got asylume in Israel,. I think it´s more the muslim who refuse to grant them Lebanese citizenship...
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests