iflyatldl
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US Vs. Canada- What Do We Know?

Sat May 29, 2004 12:31 am

Having lived in both Canada and the US, I've noticed something...Canadians know more about the US than most US citizens know about Canada. Most Canadians can have an intelligent conversation about the US, it's govt. etc. Most US citizens know very little about Canada except for beer, hockey and mooses. I remember when I was in first and second grades in Canada, we were exposed to both Canadian and US holidays and some lower level subjects pertaining to govt. I also wonder if it's because most larger Canadian cities are fairly close to US markets, radio and TV. I find it I guess, kind of amusing as Canada's PM lives in my grandparents old farmhouse in the Eastern Townships in Quebec. And sadly I have to admit, I'm very ignorant of a lot of Canadian govt. Matters.
Ah, Summer, Fenway Park, Boston Red Sox and Beer.....
 
Boeing757/767
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RE: US Vs. Canada- What Do We Know?

Sat May 29, 2004 1:35 am

I agree with your assessments. I grew up in Canada, and geography was required in school. That, and being so close to the U.S. border, led students to learn more about the U.S. than U.S. students learn about Canada.

For instance, how many in the States know a Canadian election is around the corner?

I just wish more people in the States would show more interest in the neighbor to the north -- great people, beautiful country, decent prices with the exchange rate, another culture in Quebec. A great place to visit -- and live.
Free-thinking, left-leaning secularist
 
airplay
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RE: US Vs. Canada- What Do We Know?

Sat May 29, 2004 1:45 am

I have a great deal of trouble trying to debate subject such as health care and gun control with Americans for exactly the reasons you raise Iflyatldl. We have to go through the entire catalog of myths and misunderstandings about Canada, Canadians and our governement first.

As far as many down there are concerned we're just a bunch of dim-witted commies that are leaching off them.
 
JetService
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RE: US Vs. Canada- What Do We Know?

Sat May 29, 2004 2:08 am

As far as many down there are concerned we're just a bunch of dim-witted commies that are leaching off them.

You're not dim-witted.
"Shaddap you!"
 
zrb2
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RE: US Vs. Canada- What Do We Know?

Sat May 29, 2004 2:30 am

Many US citizens that grow up in border areas (like myself in Buffalo) know plenty about Canada. Heck, we watch Canadian TV and we know the words to "Oh Canada" and hum the tune more easily than our own national anthem. We also hang out in Canada alot and even have summer homes there. I agree for the rest of the U.S., however, little attention is paid to Canadian topics. For instance, on the National News programs here, Canada is hardly mentioned (oh, occassionally you'll see a report about the prescription drug policy or maybe a SARS story). On Canadian news shows, it seems like half the topics are U.S. stories.
 
jutes85
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RE: US Vs. Canada- What Do We Know?

Sat May 29, 2004 2:39 am

Most Canadians can have an intelligent conversation about the US, it's govt.

Thats because over 60% of our tv channels are American, CNN, Fox, NBC, etc. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, but whatever happens in the US, Canada knows about it, but it does not work the other way around. I don't think many Americans have CBC broadcasted.

Another thing has to do with schooling. I remember in grade 6 or 7, we had to learn about the civil war and the basic history of the US and how it was formed. We are taught much of American history and culture, altoght I'm not sure if many Americans know much about Canadian history.

I think its better if more Canadians know about Americans, because in time of crisis, or war, its better if you have the world's only superpower as your neighbor. Thats why I'm voting for the Conservatives, they are more infavour of working with Americans, rather then against them, like the LIEberals.
nothing
 
iflyatldl
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RE: US Vs. Canada- What Do We Know?

Sat May 29, 2004 9:21 am

I wish we had more access to Canadian television like areas closer to the border. I try to read the Montreal Gazette online and CTV on line, but it's not quite the same. And I've noticed when I was thinking about getting a dish, none of the providers offer Canadian television access, but you can get as many European and South American channels as you want. Go Figure!  Insane
Ah, Summer, Fenway Park, Boston Red Sox and Beer.....
 
canuckpaxguy
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RE: US Vs. Canada- What Do We Know?

Sat May 29, 2004 10:16 am

Let me preface the following comments with "No offense".

I've noticed that Canadians get awfully defensive when Americans don't know "enough" about our culture while we know "so much" about theirs.

Truth is, we're no different than any other country in the world. We know lots about the USA because of the international media giant they are...Period. We Canadians (as a whole, not individually), don't know that much about other countries either; unless we have some sort of cultural connection or specific interest.

For example, China is a major trading partner with Canada. Aside from Canadians of Chinese decent, or those who have spent time in Asia, how much do we REALLY know about China? Not as much as you think probably. They eat rice (we drink beer), live in overcrowded areas (we live in igloos) and all ride bikes (like our dog-sleds).

Everyone in the WORLD knows more about the USA than the USA knows about them. Right or wrong, it's true. But don't forget to take a look in our own backyard. We really can't blame Americans for being ignorant of other cultures because we're just as ignorant for the most part.

Now as a neighbour, I agree it would be great to see more Americans spending their tourist dollars here and I invite anyone come to our great(est) country...but you can't take it personally when an American doesn't know everything about Canada.

There are also some added perks...A few good chuckles. (Remember Rick Mercer's "Talking To Americans"?). A very nice couple from Milwaukee recently told me how impressed they were with my English once they discovered I was from Toronto. Always a good laugh.

Now, as a good Canadian, I suggest we continue to point out everything Canadian in American culture and thank Alex Trebek for negotiating in his contract that every episode of Jeopardy! contains at least one question (answer) about Canada.

G
 
USAFHummer
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RE: US Vs. Canada- What Do We Know?

Sat May 29, 2004 10:20 am

The NFL should adapt the rules of the CFL

Greg
Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
 
iflyatldl
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RE: US Vs. Canada- What Do We Know?

Sat May 29, 2004 10:42 am

Canuckpaxguy: No offense taken in the least, at least from me. I guess I'm just speaking as a person who has roots in both countries and proud of it! I get annoyed I think more with myself when I can't remember simple Canadian holidays or govt proceedures. I guess part of the reason Canadians do seem to know more about the US IS because of many Canadian major cities proximity to the US. But, I guess what you're saying is true, everybody can't know everything about everybody. Big grin
Ah, Summer, Fenway Park, Boston Red Sox and Beer.....
 
Goose
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RE: US Vs. Canada- What Do We Know?

Sat May 29, 2004 10:48 am

There's a disturbing trend amongst Canadians, particularily young ones and those easily swayed, in that it's popular to bash anything and everything American. In fact, many Canadians actually define their "Canadianism" by how much they dislike - or hate - Americans.

Sigh.......
"Talk to me, Goose..."
 
canuckpaxguy
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RE: US Vs. Canada- What Do We Know?

Sat May 29, 2004 11:27 am


You're so right Goose!
I hate hearing those comments....and they usually come from Canadians calling Americans "ignorant"! How ironic!

Isn't it sad that members of a culture as great as ours should choose to define themselves by isolating differences between our neighbours?

Pity, eh?

G



 
L-188
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RE: US Vs. Canada- What Do We Know?

Sat May 29, 2004 12:08 pm

Actually it always amazes me how much false advertising there is about Canada. I went to a restaurant one time for some of that "south of the border" Canadian cusine, and it really amazed me how much it tasted like Mexican food.

fact, many Canadians actually define their "Canadian" by how much they dislike - or hate - Americans.

unfortunately that doesn't appear to be a trait that is limited to just Canada.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
rindt
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RE: US Vs. Canada- What Do We Know?

Sat May 29, 2004 2:29 pm

Jutes,

" think its better if more Canadians know about Americans, because in time of crisis, or war, its better if you have the world's only superpower as your neighbor. Thats why I'm voting for the Conservatives, they are more infavour of working with Americans, rather then against them, like the LIEberals."

Conservatives more in favour of working with Americans? The last I checked, the door should swing both ways. Americans in general want everything from Canada, without giving anything back. (read - natural resources). You know much about the softwood lumber issues? I'm sure Mr. Harper would be great  Big grin

You seem to be forgetting this is Canada - our country. It's about time we worry about doing what's good for OUR country, instead of trying to impress and "make friends" with the US. You think Bush gives a shit about trade relations with Canada? He can't even find Canada on a map.


A liberal Canada + Democrat elected US = good times.

GO LIBERAL!

-Rob




What other people think of you is none of your business!
 
L-188
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RE: US Vs. Canada- What Do We Know?

Sat May 29, 2004 2:51 pm

The last I checked, the door should swing both ways. Americans in general want everything from Canada, without giving anything back. (read - natural resources).

Umm, horse-pucky.

Do we want to discuss the 96-97 BC-Alaska salmon war?

What province was bitiching about Alaska fisherman taking too many salmon, but on their end was only counting commercially caught salmon taken by their fisherman, as opposed to the Alaska Department of fish and game that was counting both sport and commercially caught salmon in it's totals.

Fisherman in what province held a US flagged, vessel of the Alaska Marine highway system hostage for 3 days in Prince Rupert.

Can you guess what countries law enforcement refuese to breakup the illegal blockade? Would you believe it took a federal court order from that countries court system, not the US to force the Mounties to break up the blockade.

What country did the Alaska Marine Highway system have to stop port calls in because of concerns over ship and passenger safety relating to the blockade.


Glenn Clarke losing his job was one of the best things that could ever happend to US-Canada relations.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
rindt
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RE: US Vs. Canada- What Do We Know?

Sat May 29, 2004 4:52 pm

"Do we want to discuss the 96-97 BC-Alaska salmon war?

What province was bitiching about Alaska fisherman taking too many salmon, but on their end was only counting commercially caught salmon taken by their fisherman, as opposed to the Alaska Department of fish and game that was counting both sport and commercially caught salmon in it's totals."

Yeah - this is where Alaskan ships waited just off of international waters to catch the full-grown sockeye's as they were coming back to spawn in Canadian waters. Guess that's our fault somehow .

And don't even mention Glenn Clarke... the absurd business decisions he made are astounding. Fast-Ferries anyone? Lions Gate Bridge Fiasco? I was never in favour of him - never have been in favour for a party which is overly pro-union.

Your next statement was a classic : "Actually it always amazes me how much false advertising there is about Canada. I went to a restaurant one time for some of that "south of the border" Canadian cusine, and it really amazed me how much it tasted like Mexican food."

You don't say... TacoBell is a Mexican fast-food chain afterall  Big grin

Couldn't resist  Smile

Cheers,
-Rob



What other people think of you is none of your business!
 
L-188
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RE: US Vs. Canada- What Do We Know?

Sat May 29, 2004 4:56 pm

Actually, Rob I stole that line from a telephone company commercial up here about a guy wanting to call Nana back in Alberta.

The guy in the adds is the same one that used to play "Mr. Peterman" on Seinfeld.

It is a good thing GW wasn't in charge in 96 eh? If the canadians taking shots at US fishermen wasn't bad enough, we had that whole Malispina blockade. We would have invaded. No way that would would have stood for 300 hostages being taken.

OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
L-188
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RE: US Vs. Canada- What Do We Know?

Sat May 29, 2004 5:55 pm

Not to change the subject, but yall you do realize that most of British Columbia by treaty should be part of the United States.

I need to tell the full story here.

British Claims on the area where based on Vancouvers expedition, however the Russian America company was the one that was establishing a series of permanent outposts that ran as far down south to Fort Ross on the border of the Spanish territory that was known as "California"

in 1925 a 10 year agreeement was signed between the Russian America Company of Russia and the Hudson Bay company that set borders on their areas of operations. The borders of each companies area of operations where defined and are resonably close to the current Alaska/Yukon/BC borders.

Commencing from the Southern-most Point of the Island called Prince of Wales Island, which Point lies in the parallel of 54 degrees 40 minutes, North Latitude, and between the 131st and 133d Degree of West Longitude (Meridian of Greenwich), the said line shall ascend to the North along the Channel called Portland Channel, as far as the Point of the Continent where it strikes the 56th Degree of North Latitude; from this last mentioned Point the line of demarcation shall follow the summit of the mountains situated parallel to the Coast, as far as the point of intersection of the 141st Degree of West Longitude (of the same Meridian); and, finally, from the said point of intersection, the said Meridian Line of the 141st Degree, in its prolongation as far as the Frozen Ocean, shall form the limit between the Russian and British Possessions on the Continent of America to the North West.

Original document:http://www.explorenorth.com/library/history/bl-ruseng1825.htm

The British where always very keen on violating the 1825 treaty between Great Britian and Russia that prohibitied the Hudson Bay Company from operating in Alaska, or more correctly. A number of outposts illegally within Russian America where established. Ft. Yukon and Rampart Alaska play this fact out. Both are clearly inside the 141 west longitude that still forms the border between Alaska and Yukon

In 1833 the HBC attempted to established a trading post on the Stikini River in Alaskan territory in 1833 to intercept Tlinget-russian trade. The not accepting the HBC claims of a trade monopoly the Tlinget sacked the Fort in 1852.

In 1867 the Russian Territory was sold to the United States.

A discovery of gold in the Cassier in 1870 brought the border issue to a head. Preisident Grant had a survey expidition that work mapping the border.


The influx of prospectors twenty years later headed for the Yukon gold fields really almost brought the two countries at war, with the Canadians setting up outposts equiped with Gatling guns for fire support at locations they felt the border was and sending 200 troops to occupy the area around the southern end of Lake Bennet. An area that the US recognized as it's territory. There is at least one case of a threatened raid on one of these outposts by minors, who promised to, "Shoot the Canadian flag down"

In 1898 negotiations between the US and Canada over the border broke apart so a tribunal was set-up to determine a border based on the original 1825 HBC-RAC document. That document set up trading areas, sort of a non-compete agreement. It was not intended to set national borders. As clearly shown by the RAC presence down the coast from Alaska to Washington, Oregon and California, they considered that whole territory part of their empire.

The problem is that 1898 tribunal used a document from 1825, and was only supposed to apply for 10 years. And the references to the purchase in the 1867 document where made to that 1825 document also. Hover the 1867 document also speciflical retains Prince of Wales of Island as russian territory. This island would later be ceeded over to the US also, but that cession should also have included the rest of the BC coastline down to Washington State.

http://www.explorenorth.com/library/yafeatures/bl-Alaska1867.htm


EDIT:To tell the truth I think the people of BC are an abandoned people, who don't live under the liberty of low taxes, Not VAT and the english measuring system. They are hostages to a unrespossive goverment half a world away, under a cruel leader who they can't even elect directly.

Too bad, Cretian isn't in office anymore, a photo of him and a MIDI of the Imperial march from Star Wars would be great right here

These people yearn for there freedom, to live in a society where you don't have to by gas by the litre, and I think that the US should commit all of it's resources, spritial, moral and militarially to ensure that they get it.  Laugh out loud

[Edited 2004-05-29 11:02:53]
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
VonRichtofen
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RE: US Vs. Canada- What Do We Know?

Sat May 29, 2004 7:01 pm

"Not to change the subject, but yall you do realize that most of British Columbia by treaty should be part of the United States."

With the exception of Vancouver you wouldn't want BC (Canada's trailer park). Vancouver is nice, but the interior...eeeesh.


"These people yearn for there freedom"

Nah, all that Most BCer's yearn for is a case of beer and a joint. I've had the pleasure of working with some BC squatters errrrr migrants here in YYC. They usually live with 7 other BCers (in a 2 bedroom apartment) still manage to not have rent money almost every month. Not the mention the lone car in the group is so run down you wonder how the hell they got it all the way to Calgary in the first place. Ah well, I shouldn't complain. Somebody has to wash dishes and bag groceries!  Big thumbs up  Big thumbs up  Big grin  Big grin
 
L-188
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RE: US Vs. Canada- What Do We Know?

Sat May 29, 2004 11:16 pm

Come to think of it, we still need to go back and kick their arse for burning the capital in 1812

We haven't forgotten.  Pissed
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
caribb
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RE: US Vs. Canada- What Do We Know?

Sat May 29, 2004 11:26 pm

I think the American vs Canadian view of each other is rather normal. It might be disappointing to many Canadians but still logical nonetheless. The USA is a mega economy with crucial links through political, business, industrial and military ties to every reagion around the world. Canada, although one of their biggest trading partners if not still the biggest, is really a minor player in their overall concerns.. With only 35 million people (is that still acurate?) we amount to less than the size of New York state in terms of population. California probably has a much bigger economy than all of Canada. Furthermore the US is so self contained the need to look outside it's borders for many things from cars, airplanes, entertainment, food, minerals etc is pretty much unnecessary.

Canadians on the other hand are much less independant, live along the border with the USA, like much of the world consumes it's culture including fast food, magazines, TV, music and movies to the detriment of our own offerings in those areas.. so it doesn't surprise me at all Canadians vigorously watch the USA with a mixture of awe, digust, jealousy, appreciation, repulse and admiration all thrown together... leaving the Americans to occasionally glance north when we actually manage to do something to catch their attention. We pick the best things from their society and try and leave the worse down south. We fly their planes, drive their cars along side those of others but none of our own (except the CRJ), criticize their government and lay on their beaches..

I often wonder how Canadians would be if we had a population and economy 10x larger than what it is now. Instead of 4 cities with 1 million people we might have 30 or 40.. our role in the world politically and economically would be ten times more influential and the decisions we would make would be of a scale that could effect the world... America would have to pay greater attention to us and our cultural and economic influence on them. Would we be as effective and as liked or disliked as the Americans? Would they respect us more because of the power we would have? Would we even have the same character as a people with all that power an influence? It's easy to stand back and judge but another thing to be in the drivers seat.

[Edited 2004-05-29 16:33:41]
 
canuckpaxguy
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RE: US Vs. Canada- What Do We Know?

Sat May 29, 2004 11:32 pm


Good thoughts Caribb,
Actually, I believe we ARE the USA's largest trading partner.

On a side point, I've never had the impression that Canadians were actually disliked by Americans. Are we?

L-188 - Yeah, sorry about whole "buring down the capital" thing. We just thought you needed a new building. Did you get the insurance money yet?

G

 
L-188
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RE: US Vs. Canada- What Do We Know?

Sat May 29, 2004 11:35 pm

Nope, not even the .70 cents on the dollar, with the exchage rate.

I belive you are correct, also I believe that since WWII Canadian companies have been able to bid on US military contract on equal footing with US companies.

OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Greg
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RE: US Vs. Canada- What Do We Know?

Sun May 30, 2004 12:37 am

Canada has always had an identity crisis---being the loft above America is not easy. Plus, the entire population of the country can practically fit in New York state.

For that reason I think they do a fair amount of US bashing for no other reason than to get noticed.

It's true, we dump thousands of tons of acid rain and pollution on them monthly. But then again, they gave us Celine Dion and k.d. lange.

So I guess we're even.
 
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yyz717
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RE: US Vs. Canada- What Do We Know?

Sun May 30, 2004 1:54 am

I've never had the impression that Canadians were actually disliked by Americans.

Not disliked. Ignored, because we are irrelevant.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
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yyz717
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RE: US Vs. Canada- What Do We Know?

Sun May 30, 2004 2:03 am

For that reason I think they do a fair amount of US bashing for no other reason than to get noticed.

That's not it. Some Cdns think that in order to differentiate ourselves from the US, we have to badmouth the US and oppose all their policies.

I would rather see closer ties between the US & Canada along with a harmonization of many of our policies and legislation.


I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
L-188
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RE: US Vs. Canada- What Do We Know?

Sun May 30, 2004 2:08 am

Some Cdns think that in order to differentiate ourselves from the US, we have to badmouth the US and oppose all their policies.

See that is that French/Canadian heritage at work Big grin

Non? Oui? eh?


OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
CPDC10-30
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RE: US Vs. Canada- What Do We Know?

Sun May 30, 2004 2:39 am

The last I checked, the door should swing both ways. Americans in general want everything from Canada, without giving anything back

Rindt, you're speaking from a BC-only point of view, not for all of Canada. If you said that to some of the hundreds of thousands of industrial workers mostly in Ontario and Quebec you would probably get beat up. Canada benefits far more from bilateral trade with the United States than you make it seem. Not to mention other service companies that do large amounts of business in the USA.

Now for my own opinion on the whole Anti-American thing. We are really no better or no worse than they are - and people really need to look themselves in the mirror and see their own faults. With a serious tax raise here in Ontario for reduced government services - I am seriously searching for employers in the US that will sponsor a work visa for me...
 
Goose
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RE: US Vs. Canada- What Do We Know?

Sun May 30, 2004 3:09 am

Canada benefits far more from bilateral trade with the United States than you make it seem.

Indeed, they are by far our largest trading partner for both imports and exports - I think trade with the US makes up more than 2/3rds of our national total.
"Talk to me, Goose..."
 
scf158
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RE: US Vs. Canada- What Do We Know?

Thu Jun 03, 2004 2:00 am

I grew up not knowing americans and i got a pretty bad image of them. I didnt feel safe when i went to the states because i thought everyone got mugged and shot with a gun. Boy was i wrong....

Growing up i think some young people in both countries learn to 'hate' the other.. now im not saying thats always the case but it was with me, ill admit it now.

Now, i live in an international city and go to school with kids all over the world and have finally gotten the chance to meet some americans my age. What ive learned from this experience is that:

1) Canadians and US are very similar! God knows how many times ive been asked, ' What part of the states are you from?' My response.. 'the canadian part'. But both countires will do anything to define their nationality.
2) Saying someone is American is politically incorrect in my view. American means that you're from north or south america as a continent... not a country. In french you could call someone from the states Etats-Unien.. but there isnt an english word for it.
3) Canadians and Americans, in my opinion are one of the few countries in the world that are so similar yet so different. They are two countries that i think are allowed to poke fun at the other.
4) You cant judge people from another country unless you really know what the people/culture is like.

Regards,
scf158.
 
travelin man
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RE: US Vs. Canada- What Do We Know?

Thu Jun 03, 2004 5:21 am

Speaking from an American viewpoint, I've been to Canada three time (twice to YVR, once to YUL). In some ways Canada and the USA are almost indistinguishable. Or Canada is like a Twilight Zone episode where everything is ALMOST the same, but there a slight differences. Don't get me wrong, Canadians definitely have their own culture and identity. But if you dropped an alien in the middle of Vancouver, and in the middle of Seattle, he would be hard-pressed to tell he was in two different countries.

And I think the US and Canada have more in common than just about any two other countries on Earth. We have common language, sports (except for that ice shuffleboard game), history, and connected economies. I'll be honest to say that I don't know much about Canadian politics, as I don't receive the CBC in Southern California (we get Telemundo). I could identify every province on the map, but I know I am in a distinct minority amongst Americans when it comes to Canadian geography.

I know it's fashionable to bash Americans these days (in some cases it's deserved), but as someone above said, hopefully Canadians don't have to resort to America-bashing to prove their "Canadian-ness". After all, Calgary just may bring home the Stanley Cup. That should keep you guys up north happy all Summer!
 
L-188
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RE: US Vs. Canada- What Do We Know?

Sat Jun 05, 2004 4:44 pm

And then there is the gravy on the french fries thing.

Why aren't more Canadian 300 pounders just because of that alone?
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