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Bofredrik
Topic Author
Posts: 1133
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 1999 4:17 pm

USA Citizens: Stop Using So Much Oil!

Thu Jun 03, 2004 8:07 pm

USA have around 5 % of the worlds population but use 25 % of the oil that is produced every year. Can that continue? No. The first thing to do is to DOUBLE the gas prices. And to start buying smaller cars that use less petrol.
 
cfalk
Posts: 10221
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2000 6:38 pm

RE: USA Citizens: Stop Using So Much Oil!

Thu Jun 03, 2004 8:16 pm

The U.S. will always use more fuel than elsewhere, simply because of the way the U.S. is set up. A general and historic dislike of high-density living, and the resultant far-flung suburbs make for very difficult problem for mass transit in most areas, and private cars seems to be the only solution for most Americans, unless you want to tear everything down and start from scratch.

But I agree that Americans are far too attached to cars and SUVs that weigh 2 or 3 tons. Let's face it, how often do you fill up the back of that Suburban? Wouldn't you be financially better off having a smaller car and renting a U-Haul when you need something bigger? Maybe it's a form of George Carlin's "bigger dick" theory at work here...

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
artsyman
Posts: 4516
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2001 12:35 pm

RE: USA Citizens: Stop Using So Much Oil!

Thu Jun 03, 2004 8:22 pm

It was only a matter of time before someone decided to place the blame on the US for all of this. While the US uses more than anyone else, they also produce more than most, have more land than most, and more people than most.

While I do agree that the US needs to make efforts to streamline its use a little, to blame them for the current crisis is just more of the same ole BS that usually gets fired at them.

The arab nations do NOT want the price of Oil to fall, and especially not to fall very far as they are the main benefactors to these inflated oil prices. 43 dollars a barrel is great for them.

In today's OPEC meeting Iran specifically objected to the raise in production of oil as they did not want to the price tumble.
 
Jaspike
Posts: 4843
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 1:40 pm

RE: USA Citizens: Stop Using So Much Oil!

Thu Jun 03, 2004 8:23 pm

USA have around 5 % of the worlds population but use 25 % of the oil that is produced every year.
Also the USA accounts for 25% of global gas emissions and 36% of emissions from the industrialised world.. not good. Hope it changes someday..

Tom
 
KROC
Posts: 18919
Joined: Mon May 08, 2000 11:19 am

RE: USA Citizens: Stop Using So Much Oil!

Thu Jun 03, 2004 8:27 pm

Think I'll go fill up my gas guzzling 10 miles per gallon SUV, drive that bitch till its empty, fill it up again, throw out a couple middle fingers and do it all over again.

Oh, and for Bofredrik and Jaspike -
 
artsyman
Posts: 4516
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2001 12:35 pm

RE: USA Citizens: Stop Using So Much Oil!

Thu Jun 03, 2004 8:31 pm

Also the USA accounts for 25% of global gas emissions and 36% of emissions from the industrialised world.. not good. Hope it changes someday..
****

Maybe if some of the other countries that had huge populations paid their citizens more than a bowl of rice a day, then they too would be able to afford a car, or a stereo or many of the other things that Oil goes towards producing. I am even willing to bet that the box of tissues from KROC would have used up some oil along the way.
 
QIguy24
Posts: 2744
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 1:13 am

RE: USA Citizens: Stop Using So Much Oil!

Thu Jun 03, 2004 8:39 pm

I actually saw a very interesting interview on CNN international yesterday. The guy who was being interviewed was some editorial guy from National Geographics. I can't remember his name. But he told some very interesting things about the us of oil.
You practicly use oil for everything. Even when you make a napkin case like KROC showed above you used a hell of a lot of oil.

I was actually amazed when he told how much oil the world uses to get thru the day. I can't really remember the figures. But damn they were high!

And of course the big SUV's have a small responsibility for this. But guys. Have you looked around on european roads? You see SUV's everywhere and big mercedes, BMW's and Range Rovers and many more.

So just blame this on the americans is pretty wrong IMO.
 
Gman94
Posts: 1167
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 2:56 am

RE: USA Citizens: Stop Using So Much Oil!

Thu Jun 03, 2004 8:44 pm

Maybe if some of the other countries that had huge populations paid their citizens more than a bowl of rice a day, then they too would be able to afford a car, or a stereo or many of the other things that Oil goes towards producing. I am even willing to bet that the box of tissues from KROC would have used up some oil along the way.

That's great logic just because westerners get paid more money that gives us the right to consume the world in our own arrogance. Just because we can doesn't mean we should.

We can't keep sticking our head's in the sand and think everything is going to be fine. We know the blame is not all down to the US, but a line in the sand is going to have to been drawn sooner or later before we completely screw the planet up.
British Airways - The Way To Fly
 
artsyman
Posts: 4516
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2001 12:35 pm

RE: USA Citizens: Stop Using So Much Oil!

Thu Jun 03, 2004 8:44 pm

Have you looked around on european roads? You see SUV's everywhere and big mercedes, BMW's and Range Rovers and many more.
*****

Please delete your comment, this does not fit into my plan at all...

signed
Bofredrik
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: USA Citizens: Stop Using So Much Oil!

Thu Jun 03, 2004 8:47 pm

Not that many big SUV's down this end of the world - you try fitting a Ford Explorer down some of the side streets in Nice or Antibes - the thing would raplidly become a permanent feature.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
artsyman
Posts: 4516
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2001 12:35 pm

RE: USA Citizens: Stop Using So Much Oil!

Thu Jun 03, 2004 8:51 pm

That's great logic just because westerners get paid more money that gives us the right to consume the world in our own arrogance. Just because we can doesn't mean we should.
***

The point I was making, and was also made by QIguy24 is that Oil gets used up in the production of almost everything (if not everything). Thus the US being a leading producer of many things, and having a large wealthy population, they consume more than others. Even if you took all the large SUV's off the road, it would make about 1% of a difference to the overall use of oil.

Unless the US moves back into the dark ages along with the likes of Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq etc, they are going to use lots of oil. This is just a fact of life. China and India use a ridiculous amount of oil also, and their use of it is rising massively. More people making more things for more people to buy.

Except of course in Sweden where no one uses any oil, drives any SUV's and certainly does not use any oil for any sort of manufacturing...
 
QIguy24
Posts: 2744
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 1:13 am

RE: USA Citizens: Stop Using So Much Oil!

Thu Jun 03, 2004 8:53 pm

JGPH1A

What end of the world are you from?  Big grin
I see at least 3 SUV's on my way to the bus every morning. And that is only a 5 min. walk Big grin And that is in Basel.
And the streets here are absolutly tiny. I wonder my self what the heck they need it for..

Oh, and by the way if you try to search for SUV's under a used carsales homepage in Germany, Sweden or Norway I'll bet you will find a lot  Big grin

[Edited 2004-06-03 13:55:24]
 
artsyman
Posts: 4516
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2001 12:35 pm

RE: USA Citizens: Stop Using So Much Oil!

Thu Jun 03, 2004 8:55 pm

you try fitting a Ford Explorer down some of the side streets in Nice or Antibes
***

I do recall seeing plenty of Ferarri Testarossa cruising around in Nice, and do not recall having any problems navigating our gas guzzling V12 Jaguar around the streets of Juan Les Pins, which is in Antibes.


J
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: USA Citizens: Stop Using So Much Oil!

Thu Jun 03, 2004 8:55 pm

I live in the S. of France - French roads tend to squeeze in as many lanes as possible for some reason, making the purchase of big ol' SUV a bit dangerous, as you are liable to hit the guy next to you even if you stay in the middle of your lane. You really don't see that many - most of the SUV's you do see are Brits in Range-Rovers or Germans in BMW X5's.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
zak
Posts: 1926
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2003 12:17 pm

RE: USA Citizens: Stop Using So Much Oil!

Thu Jun 03, 2004 9:03 pm

"Have you looked around on european roads? You see SUV's everywhere and big mercedes, BMW's and Range Rovers and many more."

you see very few, especially in comparison to the u.s.


"The point I was making, and was also made by QIguy24 is that Oil gets used up in the production of almost everything (if not everything)."
the problem is not oil or gas but yes, the overall use which you correctly pointed out

"Thus the US being a leading producer of many things,"
hate to break it to you, but the u.s. is not a lead producer of things anymore. you either have the quantity products from asia or the quality products from europe. in the world market, except arms, u.s. produced products play a very small role. the majority of u.s. production is made up of inferior products for the u.s. domestic market(cars are a good example). even u.s. companies in general produce in different locations because you can get a better productivity in asia and better quality of manufacture in europe/japan. which leads to the next point

"and having a large wealthy population,they consume more than others."
indeed, the consumption is the crux to the oil problem. it has not so much to do with the wealth people have in the u.s., but how its spent.

"Even if you took all the large SUV's off the road, it would make about 1% of a difference to the overall use of oil."
limit suvs to people who need them like hunters, encourage energy saving and raise the price for electricity and raise awareness of water and electricity saving behaviour and you will have a shitload of a difference.

"Unless the US moves back into the dark ages along with the likes of Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq etc, they are going to use lots of oil. This is just a fact of life. China and India use a ridiculous amount of oil also, and their use of it is rising massively. More people making more things for more people to buy."

if you go visit various countries with a great record on enviromental issues, you would discover that the daily life and infrastructure is in fact alot more advanced then the one in the u.s.
maybe the u..s should come out of the dark ages?


"Except of course in Sweden where no one uses any oil, drives any SUV's and certainly does not use any oil for any sort of manufacturing..."
of course people do, but despite the long swedish winter and harsh road conditions, people still manage to consume less oil per captia.
and mind you sweden has a very low population density, buying power at least equal to that of the u.s. and a weather that is perfect for high energy use scenarios due to COLD winters and HOT summers.
10=2
 
QIguy24
Posts: 2744
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 1:13 am

RE: USA Citizens: Stop Using So Much Oil!

Thu Jun 03, 2004 9:12 pm

Zak,

I know there aren't as many as in the US. I think they have to many compared to what they need it for. But I think it's wrong for europeans to blame it on the US when we drive in exactly the same cars here.
 
Jaspike
Posts: 4843
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 1:40 pm

RE: USA Citizens: Stop Using So Much Oil!

Thu Jun 03, 2004 9:19 pm

Wow, it's amazing how worked up people can get when I just posted a fact, not an attack or anything... Jesus..
 
zak
Posts: 1926
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2003 12:17 pm

RE: USA Citizens: Stop Using So Much Oil!

Thu Jun 03, 2004 9:21 pm

" But I think it's wrong for europeans to blame it on the US when we drive in exactly the same cars here."

we dont. just because a few random idiots drive suvs over here doesnt mean that the average cars are similar.
in europe cars are in general smaller and consume less fuel. besides that as i pointed out before, the main problem is not just consumption of fuel by cars, but energy consumption in general due to the non existant ecological awareness and the largely "dark ages" infrastructure in houses etc.
a good example is the new york problem: living in certain older houses, in winter the heating is centrally turned on, but to regulate it you have to use the air condition.
10=2
 
artsyman
Posts: 4516
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2001 12:35 pm

RE: USA Citizens: Stop Using So Much Oil!

Thu Jun 03, 2004 9:21 pm

hate to break it to you, but the u.s. is not a lead producer of things anymore.
****

Is that so, who do you think is the world's largest exporter of Agricultural products is ?, never mind farming equipment and literally hundreds of other items..., look it up, the US while clearly not the leader in everything, produces and exports a ridiculous amount of items each year.

you would discover that the daily life and infrastructure is in fact alot more advanced then the one in the u.s.
***

Of this I have no doubt. The problem for me is that I am more of the opinion that we should be living a more simple life, and living of the land in a self sustaining community would be fantastic, but It just pisses me off when people just decide to attack the US for everything. I am not even American.

J
 
sebolino
Posts: 3495
Joined: Tue May 29, 2001 11:26 pm

RE: USA Citizens: Stop Using So Much Oil!

Thu Jun 03, 2004 9:28 pm

While the US uses more than anyone else, they also produce more than most, have more land than most, and more people than most.

How stupid !!

Can't you read Artsy ?
Your country is by far the first in term of oil / inhabitant.

More people than most ? LOL !

Maybe if some of the other countries that had huge populations paid their citizens more than a bowl of rice a day, then they too would be able to afford a car

If India and China lived the same way as Americans, oil would be a rare good, and extremely expensive.

Another interesting point: the CO2 released in the atmosphere is going to reach a maximum in about 1 century. Why a maximum ? Just because the earth cannot physically stand more than a limit. The effects will be simple but radicals, and the USA won't be spared by the consequences.
I would prefer if Americans were a little smarter and decided to drive smaller and efficient cars, and develop cleaner electricity. But considering the answers by KROC and other smart guys, they are not on the good way.
 
jcs17
Posts: 7376
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2001 11:13 am

RE: USA Citizens: Stop Using So Much Oil!

Thu Jun 03, 2004 9:31 pm

Euros whining about America? Damn, this is a new concept...

First of all, I don't know why you guys are bashing SUVs. Most of them get fairly good gas mileage for the weight of the vehicle. Not only that, but there are plenty of luxury sedans which get terrible gas mileage. Why don't you bitch at Europeans for owning 7-series and Mercedes tank-mobiles? European cities are more centralized than American cities--thus making using mass transit a more viable and convenient alternative. You go 10 miles outside of Paris and you're hitting farm land. You go 10 miles outside of Los Angeles and you're basically still in the big city.

Here, Europe, we'll make you a deal--if you stop playing soccer, we'll stop driving SUVs.

BTW, Zak, do they award trophies in Germany to the most anti-American citizen? If so, you'll definitely be in the running. Now go cry some more.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
QIguy24
Posts: 2744
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 1:13 am

RE: USA Citizens: Stop Using So Much Oil!

Thu Jun 03, 2004 9:31 pm

Zak,

I know both you and Jaspike don't blame the US for this. But if you read BoFredriks post you see it clearly that some Europeans blame the US.

But I agree with you that they could do something about their houses. Get them well isolated helps alot. We did it to our house when I lived in Denmark. We saved a lot of money on energy. And Energy needs oil to keep it going. And there we probably saved alot of oil as well.
 
QANTASforever
Posts: 5794
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2001 6:03 am

RE: USA Citizens: Stop Using So Much Oil!

Thu Jun 03, 2004 9:35 pm

Honestly! Per capita many developed nations use as much fuel as americans!

When oh when will people stop blaming the US for every single bad thing in the world?? Their use of oil is a trend shared by many countries.

QFF
Fighting for the glory of the Australian Republic.
 
artsyman
Posts: 4516
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2001 12:35 pm

RE: USA Citizens: Stop Using So Much Oil!

Thu Jun 03, 2004 9:36 pm

Can't you read Artsy ? Your country is by far the first in term of oil
****

My country is the first ? Scotland leads the world in Oil consumption ?, or maybe my second home of 17 years, Canada leads the world in Oil consumption ?

Guess where the largest growth in SUV sales worldwide comes from ?

Europe and the US... Europe, read it, Europe...Europe....
 
N6376M
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 12:54 am

RE: USA Citizens: Stop Using So Much Oil!

Thu Jun 03, 2004 9:47 pm

Our European friends seem to think that the US should only use oil when it is to put in our tanks and airplanes when they are need to save Europe from one of its self-created problems.
 
sebolino
Posts: 3495
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RE: USA Citizens: Stop Using So Much Oil!

Thu Jun 03, 2004 9:48 pm

Artsyman, you are now trying to twist the facts ?

The most important is obviously not the level of consumption, but the effort made by the country and the population to lower the consumption, and especially in rich countries.
Europeans are not doing enough efforts, but the USA are doing very little efforts about this. And you know why: the oil lobby.

The best example is the ridiculous Hummer H2. I couldn't believe somebody actually bought it when I saw a picture of this ridiculous ugly thing.
 
donder10
Posts: 6944
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RE: USA Citizens: Stop Using So Much Oil!

Thu Jun 03, 2004 9:57 pm

More people than most ? LOL !

The US has the world's 4th largest population and should stay there with a predicted population of 500M by 2050 according to some demographic projections.



 
KROC
Posts: 18919
Joined: Mon May 08, 2000 11:19 am

RE: USA Citizens: Stop Using So Much Oil!

Thu Jun 03, 2004 10:01 pm

Have you looked around on european roads? You see SUV's everywhere and big mercedes, BMW's and Range Rovers and many more.
*****

Please delete your comment, this does not fit into my plan at all...

signed
Bofredrik


Ouch. Bofredrik tastes the canvas



I do recall seeing plenty of Ferarri Testarossa cruising around in Nice, and do not recall having any problems navigating our gas guzzling V12 Jaguar around the streets of Juan Les Pins, which is in Antibes.

Stop shooting holes in the theory that only Americans "live in excess".

Euros whining about America? Damn, this is a new concept...
Here, Europe, we'll make you a deal--if you stop playing soccer, we'll stop driving SUVs.

Soccer for SUV's...sounds fair enough to me.

Guess where the largest growth in SUV sales worldwide comes from ?

Europe and the US... Europe, read it, Europe...Europe....


And Artsy is full of KO's today.  Big grin

I would prefer if Americans were a little smarter and decided to drive smaller and efficient cars, and develop cleaner electricity. But considering the answers by KROC and other smart guys, they are not on the good way.

Sebolino. I'd prefer if the Euro's instead of whinning so much about the US, if they developed cleaner electricity. Why is it just on the US's shoulders?

And for the record, my comments were dripping in sarcasm. A concept foreign to most from the other side. I do not drive an SUV. I'm all for cleaner electricity, cleaner burning fuels etc. Thing is, its not just Americans "polluting" and such. It's not just the Americans responsibility to make the perfect energy solution. And my middle finger crack was because as JCS stated, another thread with Euro's whinning about Americans. Nothing like a tried and true concept.  Insane

 
gkirk
Posts: 23345
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: USA Citizens: Stop Using So Much Oil!

Thu Jun 03, 2004 10:10 pm

Moaning about the US using too much oil...sheesh...
Can't we just moan about the (body) odour coming from France  Big grin
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
mrniji
Posts: 5382
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RE: USA Citizens: Stop Using So Much Oil!

Thu Jun 03, 2004 10:13 pm

Maybe if some of the other countries that had huge populations paid their citizens more than a bowl of rice a day, then they too would be able to afford a car, or a stereo or many of the other things that Oil goes towards producing.

This is so ethnocentric. Have you guys thought about that not everyone wants live the western lifestyles of consume, driving cars, getting drunk, losing values and shag---g with everyone one can?? Some nations have different cultural values they want to maintain
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
N6376M
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 12:54 am

RE: USA Citizens: Stop Using So Much Oil!

Thu Jun 03, 2004 10:20 pm

Mrniji -

So are you saying that those people who don't "want [to] live the western lifestyles of consume, driving cars, getting drunk, losing values and shag---g with everyone one" enjoy earning the meager wages they do?

That it is a conscious decision by them to stay in poverty so as to not adopt wester lifestyles?
 
Gman94
Posts: 1167
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 2:56 am

RE: USA Citizens: Stop Using So Much Oil!

Thu Jun 03, 2004 10:21 pm

Here, Europe, we'll make you a deal--if you stop playing soccer, we'll stop driving SUVs.

We'll stop playing football (it's not soccer) when you yanks take off your kevlar body armor and play rugby union instead of american football. Big grin
British Airways - The Way To Fly
 
SlamClick
Posts: 9576
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:09 am

RE: USA Citizens: Stop Using So Much Oil!

Thu Jun 03, 2004 10:24 pm

Gman94 wrote:

That's great logic just because westerners get paid more money that gives us the right to consume the world in our own arrogance. Just because we can doesn't mean we should.

And it is a perfect example of what is wrong with this entire thread - no one thinks things all the way through. You are all the intellectual versions of the football hooligan. Gman94 you are right! And therefore, just because you earn more than a nomad in the southern Sahara, how dare you insist on living in a HOUSE, and owning a BICYCLE, a SHIRT!

Because I can afford a car I own one. In fact I own four. They are very different vehicles and my life pretty much requires each one of them.

Yes Americans drive quite a bit. If I circumnavigate my house on the nearest paved highway, the drive would take in three states - it would take me two days and would circumnavigate an area larger than Germany. If you have never been to the rural parts of the western United States you just don't know what you are talking about.

The other problem is with the way statistics are gathered. People putting statistics together lie outrageously with their conditions. For example, Las Vegas has one of the US's highest per capita alcohol consumptions. If you are not in the habit of critical thinking you might conclude that the people of Las Vegas drink a lot. They do not necessarily. The numbers include casino liquor sales to people visiting from the other 49 states. Likewise our "oil consuption" includes bunker fuel burned by large ships exporting grain to other countries. It is not all burned in Hummers.

And if we do not consume, right up to our credit limit, all of Asia will be unemployed. Maybe your part of the world too.

Then we can all go live in wattle huts. Of course that is not so environmentally sound with the population pushing six billion.

Think it through.


Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
Gman94
Posts: 1167
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 2:56 am

RE: USA Citizens: Stop Using So Much Oil!

Thu Jun 03, 2004 10:25 pm

Maybe if some of the other countries that had huge populations paid their citizens more than a bowl of rice a day, then they too would be able to afford a car, or a stereo or many of the other things that Oil goes towards producing.

This is so ethnocentric. Have you guys thought about that not everyone wants live the western lifestyles of consume, driving cars, getting drunk, losing values and shag---g with everyone one can?? Some nations have different cultural values they want to maintain


So your answer to his argument is to be just as stereo-typical and cast all westerners as womanising, drunks that drive gas guzzling cars, consume anything and everything in their path and have no morals. I think you've been reading too much Al-Queda propaganda.
British Airways - The Way To Fly
 
Klaus
Posts: 20578
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

Kroc

Thu Jun 03, 2004 10:27 pm

KROC: Stop shooting holes in the theory that only Americans "live in excess".

That´s indeed a silly assumption. Americans have contributed quite a few advances in environmental technology over the years. It just seems the Bush administration is bent on destroying most of these improvements again.


KROC: Sebolino. I'd prefer if the Euro's instead of whinning so much about the US, if they developed cleaner electricity. Why is it just on the US's shoulders?

Huh? The USA has fallen behind in that area. Renewable energy is a booming industry in Europe; At this time, for instance, the solar-electric energy industry is led by Japan, immediately followed by Germany. It´s not a coincidence that the worldwide renewable energy conference is held in Bonn, Germany right now (also the seat of the UN environmental agency UNEP, led by german Klaus Töpfer). And it´s no big surprise the Bush administration is all but boycotting it. Individual US states seem to play a much more positive role, there.

I´m curious how things will change with a new US administration...

[Edited 2004-06-03 15:40:54]
 
zak
Posts: 1926
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2003 12:17 pm

RE: USA Citizens: Stop Using So Much Oil!

Thu Jun 03, 2004 10:43 pm

"BTW, Zak, do they award trophies in Germany to the most anti-American citizen? If so, you'll definitely be in the running. Now go cry some more."

honestly, i think you are more "anti american" then i could ever be even if i tried.
i actually see myself as a very pro u.s. person. i agree that this would be limited to the ideals manifested originally and to the benevolent way the u.s. has greatly contributed to the fight for freedom in europe in the dark ages of ww1-2 where the u.s. has saved us from our(more or less collectively european) stupidity and nationalistic crap that was present all over the continent.
you assume that "american" is what you see "american". something thomas jefferson surely would not agree with.
10=2
 
airplay
Posts: 3369
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 1:58 am

RE: USA Citizens: Stop Using So Much Oil!

Thu Jun 03, 2004 10:49 pm

Its not just oil. Its water and other natural resources. And its not that they overuse, its that they don't replenish.

So why don't they change? For the same reason GWB won't ratify the Kyoto Accord. They feel they can do what they want, where they want and anyone who crosses them will suffer "regime change".

The US is very far behind much of the rest of the world with respect to technologies that reduce energy use. And they don't know it. That is obvious from a "DC power transmission" thread I participated in a while ago.

 
MxCtrlr
Posts: 2312
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2001 11:22 am

RE: USA Citizens: Stop Using So Much Oil!

Thu Jun 03, 2004 10:56 pm

Let's face it, how often do you fill up the back of that Suburban?

In my case, its an Expedition and I have seven people in my family that I take all over the place on weekends, so the answer to your sarcastic question is, EVERY DAMN WEEKEND!

As far as cutting back on gas, I live 60 miles (96 km) from my job. What do you propose, I quit my high-paying job and take one paying 1/3 as much? Are you going to pay the difference on my bills so you have lower oil prices? I didn't think so.

Public transportation isn't a viable option either as 1). distance is a problem and 2). I work midnight shift and public transportation doesn't run regularly at that time.

Now geniuses, what options do I have? None.

Now, on to what I think could be a very viable starting point for a permanent (until fuel-cell technology is advanced to the point of practicality) solution (for everyone except a few gluttonous pigs who are getting quite fat off of these high prices). Let's start by setting a fixed price per barrel and taking it off the commodities markets. That goes for heating oil, natural gas, unleaded gas and all other petroleum products. That way, greedy investors cannot manipulate the price per barrel.

Bravo, Gman94! Bravo. Finally, a European that understands that MOST Americans are not the womanizing, gluttonous drunkards that a lot of people elsewhere think we are! Thank you on behalf of the majority of Americans who are good, decent, hard-working people (like most of the people in Europe are as well).  Big thumbs up

MxCtrlr  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Freight Dogs Anonymous - O.O.T.S.K.  Smokin cool
DAMN! This SUCKS! I just had to go to the next higher age bracket in my profile! :-(
 
777heavy
Posts: 251
Joined: Sun May 16, 2004 2:50 am

RE: USA Citizens: Stop Using So Much Oil!

Thu Jun 03, 2004 10:59 pm

1. This thread isn't bashing against the US of A!

2. But Bofredrik, Jaspike and ZAK are both right with their statements.

If we (Europeans and Americans) don't change our way of living, in a few years will be no more oil. The production of oil in the OPEC runs (apart from Saudi Arabia) on top level, even in Russia. China and India will need more and more oil, only China has a 13% higher oil consumption this year compared to 2003. And they are still growing. The oil price at the moment is the beginning of a long continuing development. Maybe the price will drop some cents, but low prices like in the past are gone forever! The exploration of new oil reserves is for years behind the increasing of consumption.

KROC and Artsyman go drive your SUV and turn on your AC on but you will soon enough see, why we should change our way of living. I hope you both have no children with your attitude it would be a dark future for them!

Don't forget Oil is not an endless resource!

Now go and shoot me

777heavy


[Edited 2004-06-03 16:14:26]
Well done Germany!
 
goingboeing
Posts: 4727
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: USA Citizens: Stop Using So Much Oil!

Thu Jun 03, 2004 11:07 pm

I see at least 3 SUV's on my way to the bus every morning. And that is only a 5 min. walk And that is in Basel.
And the streets here are absolutly tiny. I wonder my self what the heck they need it for..


Here's the difference...in a 5 minute morning walk thru a suburban neighborhood in the USA, you would see at least 10 SUV's, and not the "tiny" Explorers...you'd see the super sized Tahoe's and Escalade's and Expeditions. Each and every one with one driver and no passengers, but tons of extra space inside "just in case". Make that walk down a main artery and you'd see about 25.
 
zak
Posts: 1926
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2003 12:17 pm

RE: USA Citizens: Stop Using So Much Oil!

Thu Jun 03, 2004 11:09 pm

"As far as cutting back on gas, I live 60 miles (96 km) from my job. What do you propose, I quit my high-paying job and take one paying 1/3 as much?"

get a diesel lupo or something. after all you are only driving to work and do not need to haul freight. 120miles of travel per day will really save you tons of money when you drive a car that uses 3L/100km(if my math is correct then that is like 60 miles per 0.8gal) compared to ~20+L like the expedition.
you can then sell the expedition and get a large van+the lupo to take your 7 ppl somewhere. in the end you have two cars, can carry more people AND be more flexible cause now you have two cars that are cheaper(together then one expedition), use less gas and are better for the enviroment then one expedition.
10=2
 
goingboeing
Posts: 4727
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: USA Citizens: Stop Using So Much Oil!

Thu Jun 03, 2004 11:11 pm

I have a thought for those who have the "right" to drive the Hummers to the grocery store...In America, one of the things you guys really like it the concept of supply and demand. So..your Hummer provides the demand, which drives up the price of gasoline. And those of us who are trying to save some money end up paying just as much per gallon as you do, because your demand has driven up the price. So how about this....charge for gas based on individual demand. If I drive up in a Toyota Prius, sell me the gas minus the taxes. If you drive up in a Hummer, you pay the premium for the demand you need.
 
QIguy24
Posts: 2744
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 1:13 am

RE: USA Citizens: Stop Using So Much Oil!

Thu Jun 03, 2004 11:15 pm

Goingboeing,

Well, Basel isn't exactly a suburban area. You hardly can't get parkinglots here in the first place.
And like I wrote earlier as well, I think it's totaly unnecessery to have a big SUV if you only have it because it makes you a big guy..
 
cptkrell
Posts: 3186
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2001 10:50 pm

RE: USA Citizens: Stop Using So Much Oil!

Thu Jun 03, 2004 11:19 pm

O.K., let's assume for the sake of an argument, the USA uses too much gasoline for it's larger vehicles than say, Europe in general, and Europe is basically more eco-responsible when it comes to oil conservation because of their (generally) smaller and more fuel-efficient cars.

If that's a given, then how come gasoline prices are STILL friggen 5 dollars or more a gallon in Europe even after relying on shitty little econo-boxes as a mainstay of the privately-owned vehicle fleet? Hmmmm.... Regards...Jack
all best; jack
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 5421
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:12 am

RE: USA Citizens: Stop Using So Much Oil!

Thu Jun 03, 2004 11:20 pm

Obviously many didn't get Bofredrik's point of SUVs being only AN EXAMPLE and it was only a matter of time before KROC, Jcs17, Artysman and couple of others start to exhibit their arrogance and ignorance by of shooting back with Range Rovers and X5s - btw, they usually come with diesels.
No one was trying to turn it into "blame the US for everything" thread, it was just an effort to give it a thought why do you spend so much energy, like there will be no tomorrow? I guess it's really because nothing makes you think about it. If there was no Oil Crisis back in the 1970s, would Honda Civic had a chance to be sold and bought in the US or would you be still cruising around in 1950s beasts, not that American cars are, as far as technology and progress goes, much different today.  Yeah sure
Perhaps Bofredrik got inspired by my Ford Focus remark in the "Fuel efficiency" thread??? I mean con someone reasonable (not Jcs17 please I can see word by word your reply) from the US explain it to me:

"Basic model of Focus in Europe comes with 1.4 16v Duratec engine, just what you need to get you from point A to point B. Exactly the same basic Focus with US specs. comes with old 2.0 16v Zetec with much worse gas mileage. I assume the US Focus is mainly being used for same purpose: getting to/from school by some teenager incapable of handling a manual transmission. Why do you need a 2.0 to drive on freeway 65mph max???"


SlamClicks argument of living in the rural country and thus being forced to use four cars, "big ass SUVs" I assume. Well, I spent a year on high school in SW Idaho and you can hardly get anymore rural than that, so I kinda know what its like. Family I stayed with got along perfectly fine with a Mitsubishi Colt and 2.7 Isuzu Rodeo (Opel Frontera). Its needles to say that as an exchange student from "Yugoslavia" I was not allowed to drive, due to nonexistent public transport having to walk time to time some 3 miles from school and because of that was source of disbelief and amazement for the locals  Wow!


PS: I vote for this quote: "And if we do not consume, right up to our credit limit, all of Asia will be unemployed. Maybe your part of the world too." to be THE dumbest thought of this thread.



[Edited 2004-06-03 16:37:01]
 
QIguy24
Posts: 2744
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 1:13 am

RE: USA Citizens: Stop Using So Much Oil!

Thu Jun 03, 2004 11:21 pm

One word for you here Cptkrell:

TAXES!! Normal taxes and enviroment taxes. That is why it's so damn expensive over here.
 
garnetpalmetto
Posts: 5351
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 1:38 am

RE: USA Citizens: Stop Using So Much Oil!

Thu Jun 03, 2004 11:22 pm

Zak...pardon my ignorance, but what's a Lupo?
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
 
keesje
Posts: 8594
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

RE: USA Citizens: Stop Using So Much Oil!

Thu Jun 03, 2004 11:24 pm




Having gas guzling SUV's or guns has seldom to do with functionality IMO. Other things are perceived more important. Egocentric ? Perhaps..
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 5421
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:12 am

RE: USA Citizens: Stop Using So Much Oil!

Thu Jun 03, 2004 11:35 pm

Let's face it, how often do you fill up the back of that Suburban?

In my case, its an Expedition and I have seven people in my family that I take all over the place on weekends, so the answer to your sarcastic question is, EVERY DAMN WEEKEND!

The real question, MxCtrlr, is: If you indeed have a real use for a big car, why don't you get, I don't know, a Grand Voyager with strong, efficient and overall excelent 2.5CRDi by M-B??? Maybe because in the US, Grand Voyager is not sold with that engine at all?
 
Klaus
Posts: 20578
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: USA Citizens: Stop Using So Much Oil!

Thu Jun 03, 2004 11:37 pm

The high fuel taxation in Europe has been one of the driving forces behind the technological innovation tempo in our car industry that has basically left the US majors in the dust.

If there are no incentives, the industry will just get lazy. As a result, the USA basically has the automobile equivalent of Microsoft residing in Detroit...  Wink/being sarcastic

I need a comfortable car - when I need it, which is not all too often - with a reasonable fuel consumption. A huge SUV doesn´t offer anything you couldn´t have easier with a normal car (there are rare exceptions for people in special circumstances). If you need a penis extension, ask a surgeon - not your car dealerBig grin
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