MxCtrlr
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Stem Cell Research Ban - For It Or Against It?

Mon Jun 07, 2004 8:29 am

Since this subject, which is VERY near and dear to my heart, was breached in another thread (http://www.airliners.net/discussions/non_aviation/read.main/571833/), I thought I'd start a (vainly yet hopefully) debate on the subject.

Where do you weigh in on the subject of banning expanded stem cell lines for greater research? Do you think it is ethical (my position) or unethical (GWB's position) to use aborted fetuses to harvest new lines of embryonic stem cells for medical research?

Personally, I think that the benefits far outweigh any potential harm - Afterall, the aborted fetuses are being thrown away anyway. I don't agree with abortion but it is the law of the land. Since it is, rather than trying to reverse Rowe vs. Wade, why not take a bad thing (and this is not a debate on the merits or drawbacks of abortion - so don't skew it that way) and make something positive come from it?

Stem Cell Research is the most promising line of research (I think) going on today. The possibilities are limitless as these Embryonic Stem Cells can make themselves into any human cell needed. I understand that German doctors have done 35 experimental therapies on 35 different heart patients with chronic heart disease and had 35 complete successes - a 100% positive rate! Results like that are unheard of with other treatment regimens.

Why then do we consider it unethical to let literally millions of people suffer from things that can be corrected by using embryonic stem cells? I also understand that scientists have severed the spinal cords of lab rats, leaving them paralyzed, injected them with rodent embryonic stem cells, and within weeks, they are walking again!

OK, enough on my side of this debate, let's hear your side....

MxCtrlr  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Stem Cell Research Ban - For It Or Against It?

Mon Jun 07, 2004 8:35 am

Moralistically, yes...

...but in all practicality, in the situations where they're just going to be destroyed/discarded.... may as well put them to good use.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
vafi88
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RE: Stem Cell Research Ban - For It Or Against It?

Mon Jun 07, 2004 8:38 am

I think anything that can HELP the population is good, even if it means getting the extremist Christians or pro life activists getting their panties in a bundle because it's helping the population through the long term.
I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
 
Tubbyboeing
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RE: Stem Cell Research Ban - For It Or Against It?

Mon Jun 07, 2004 8:53 am

I am very much for Stem Cell Research. I also think that it has huge potential and besides, I am a Biotech student...we need stuff like this, otherwise I will be out of a job soon Big grin
 
DeltaMD11
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RE: Stem Cell Research Ban - For It Or Against It?

Mon Jun 07, 2004 8:56 am

I think it's a sin in itself that people could be so against something that has to potential to help millions of people with all kinds of ails. I couldn't be more for it.
Too often we ... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. - John Fitzgerald Kennedy
 
IHadAPheo
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RE: Stem Cell Research Ban - For It Or Against It?

Mon Jun 07, 2004 9:00 am

In seeing that both my daughter and myself have Neurofibromatosis (NF1 a genetic disorder), I am in favor of stemcell research, I however am not in favor of abrtion on demand and even though my daughter and myself could benefit from fetal stem cell reasearch I would haveto place limits on how the "stem cells" are obtained.

If the under current law the fetus is "disposed" of I would say even considering my own personal beliefs I would allow their use for stem cell research, as long as the fetus was not aborted for profit just to obtain the stem cells.

IHAP

Pray hard but pray with care For the tears that you are crying now Are just your answered prayers
 
L-188
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RE: Stem Cell Research Ban - For It Or Against It?

Mon Jun 07, 2004 9:01 am

Don't tell Alpha1 but I disagree with GW on that call too.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
mdsh00
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RE: Stem Cell Research Ban - For It Or Against It?

Mon Jun 07, 2004 9:07 am

I am 100% for Stem Cell research. I wish GW and the religious right knew how promising this research will be. It's been found that neural stem cells that become carcinogenic cause things like pediatric brain cancer. If only there was more access to money in stem cell research, we would find out how to use gene therapy and stop the tumors.

I hope that one good thing will come out of President Reagan's death. I hope that Nancy will use this to bring to light how important this research is for us as people and as a nation. Is it any wonder that all the latest advances in stem cell research is now coming out of other countries? Bush and his religious right are keeping us from the next frontier of medical research.
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Stem Cell Research Ban - For It Or Against It?

Mon Jun 07, 2004 9:14 am

Well, then we agree, L-188, but don't keep telling me you're not in his back pocket.

I'm all for this research, since it could lead to all kinds of breakthroughs in the fight against cancer, Alzehimers, maybe even some day other brutal diseases like ALS. I'm certainly not for abortion, but it is legal, and while it is, why not use it to foster some good in the world?

It's all well and good to be moralistic about it, as CondordeBoy says, and I cannot fault him for that, but the bottom line is this could be a boon to helping manking live better, longer lives. I'd say lift the ban.
 
rjpieces
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RE: Stem Cell Research Ban - For It Or Against It?

Mon Jun 07, 2004 9:18 am

GWB's rules on stemcell research are quite sad. Many scientists have had to leave the counry to do their research. And with a few more years work, who knows what we could achieve.

I remember reading an article a while back saying how close scientists were to making kidneys. This alone could easily save thousands. Hopefully, Bush will reconsider his stand after the election.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
dl021
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RE: Stem Cell Research Ban - For It Or Against It?

Mon Jun 07, 2004 10:02 am

most people would identify me as a conservative, but I am fully behind stem cell research. The benefits of this research far outweigh the moral concerns. We can let the material go to waste, or use it to try and create something good. We will eventually have to draw a line somewhere about how far we wil go in medical research, and probably sooner rather than later, but this research is benign and will save lives. The material gathered from placentas would be wasted otherwise. Material gathered from aborted fetuses should be used as well until such time as education and moral development convice people that abortion is about killing a developing child. Let their deaths at least mean something.
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L.1011
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RE: Stem Cell Research Ban - For It Or Against It?

Mon Jun 07, 2004 10:07 am

I also support the research, another way for the liberals that I disagree with GWB.
 
MD-90
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RE: Stem Cell Research Ban - For It Or Against It?

Mon Jun 07, 2004 10:16 am

Well hell, if the aborted babies are dead anyway...

As long as babies aren't conceived and then harvested for their stem cells (which I have no doubt will come up as an issue in the future).

There are 40,000 abortions a day in the United States. Shouldn't we put some of them to good use?



I don't really like the idea of stem cell research, but I'm sure it's inevitable.

[Edited 2004-06-07 03:18:36]
 
vafi88
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RE: Stem Cell Research Ban - For It Or Against It?

Mon Jun 07, 2004 11:13 am

There are 40,000 abortions a day in the United States


Mind giving a source? Somehow I don't believe that number, seems WAY too high... That number seems fit for a year though...
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MxCtrlr
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RE: Stem Cell Research Ban - For It Or Against It?

Mon Jun 07, 2004 12:11 pm

There are 40,000 abortions a day in the United States


Mind giving a source? Somehow I don't believe that number, seems WAY too high... That number seems fit for a year though...


Given the number of abortion clinics in most major cities and metropolitan areas around the country, even one abortion daily at each facility could easily garner a number that high.

The sad truth to this ban is, abortions are still going on at the same rate as before the ban. Even if that 40,000 figure is inflated - even if it is only 400 a day - that's 400 chances we threw away needlessly. 400 chances to cure Alzhiemer's (and I do realize that my mother, who has Alzhiemer's, will not regain her lost memories); 400 chances to cure cancer; 400 chances to correct heart disease, lung disease, kidney disease, ALS and any of a thousand other diseases. What a waste!  Crying

MxCtrlr  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
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L-188
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RE: Stem Cell Research Ban - For It Or Against It?

Mon Jun 07, 2004 12:15 pm

Well, then we agree, L-188, but don't keep telling me you're not in his back pocket

I know, I know, your perception of the world is implode.

We will give you the time that you need.

Just because I don't vocally air my grievances as readily as some here do doesn't make me an arse kisser.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
IHadAPheo
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RE: Stem Cell Research Ban - For It Or Against It?

Mon Jun 07, 2004 12:28 pm

I thought that the number was more like 1.5 million abortions/year, I have a link that says it was about 1.3 million in 2001. If we take the above mentioned 40,000 abortions/day = about 14,600,000 abortions/year so someone is off by 10x.

1.3 million abortions/year or 14.6 million abortions/year ?? not that much of a difference

Just as an example in 2002 there were 4,019,280 births if we take the 40,000 abortions/day 14,000,000/year are we to think that there are 3x the number of abortions than there are births??

I find it interesting when people make blanket statements about "not liking the idea of stem cell research", without making any more detailed explaination of their opinion, (about the actual stem cell research and NOT the source of the stem cells) and use their own opinions and just copy and paste another's words.

As I stated above I am far from pro-choice in fact in many ways i am pro-life but the value of stem cell research is great and as long as there is no profit given to the source of the cells I am all for it.

Could be if someone you loved even yourself would benefit from this research as would i an or my daughter i wonder if people would still say "I don't really like the idea of stem cell research". But it is easier to make a blanket statement or someone else's words that bring your own opinions to the table




Birth number link
http://usgovinfo.about.com/cs/censusstatistic/a/aabirthrate.htm

Abortion number link
http://womensissues.about.com/cs/abortionstats/a/aaabortionstats.htm
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mdsh00
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RE: Stem Cell Research Ban - For It Or Against It?

Mon Jun 07, 2004 12:53 pm

"I don't really like the idea of stem cell research, but I'm sure it's inevitable."


What part of stem cell research don't you like, MD-90?
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
 
dragon-wings
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RE: Stem Cell Research Ban - For It Or Against It?

Mon Jun 07, 2004 2:18 pm

I'm for stem cell research. It has the potential to help alot of people.
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yyz717
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RE: Stem Cell Research Ban - For It Or Against It?

Mon Jun 07, 2004 2:39 pm

I fully support stem cell research. The potential benefits are too great to not support it.
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Dasa
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RE: Stem Cell Research Ban - For It Or Against It?

Mon Jun 07, 2004 3:03 pm

Largely seems to be a consensus on this issue. I am also for stem cell research.
 
B2707SST
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RE: Stem Cell Research Ban - For It Or Against It?

Mon Jun 07, 2004 3:05 pm

I also support stem cell research, and I was disappointed with Bush's decision, although I understand why he made the choice he did. I agree with him that it would be wrong to "farm" stem cells from embryos created in the lab, but I don't believe that harvesting them from aborted fetuses is morally equivalent; as others have said, it's a waste not to. Also, it seems that the existing stem cell lines are not as robust as thought when Bush made the decision in 2001. Hopefully Nancy Reagan and others will eventually get the policy changed.

--B2707SST
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Aaron747
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RE: Stem Cell Research Ban - For It Or Against It?

Mon Jun 07, 2004 3:53 pm

I understand why he made the choice he did.

I don't. Stop using your bible-thumping bullshit to formulate public health policy for all. There's plenty of room for oversight of scientific endeavors on an ethical basis without all of the added political baggage of signing bills in the name of the Lord.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
copaair737
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RE: Stem Cell Research Ban - For It Or Against It?

Mon Jun 07, 2004 4:02 pm

I am very for it. My grandfather has Muscular Dhystrophy, and I have watched him suffer through it. I would like to see them advance in it, so they could rebuild nerve and muscle cells and help people like him out. I agree that we should put the aborted babies to use, it would help a lot of people in need of cells, and its better than wasting a valuable commodity.

-Copa
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copaair737
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RE: Stem Cell Research Ban - For It Or Against It?

Mon Jun 07, 2004 7:13 pm

I meant I am for research, and against the ban, just to clarify that. I think the ban is ridiculous. Just clearing up things.

-Copa
Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocaine
 
gigneil
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RE: Stem Cell Research Ban - For It Or Against It?

Tue Jun 08, 2004 12:37 pm

I am very much for it.

Strangely, most conservatives are for it, only the ultrareligious are not.

Bush, a relatively moderate Christian, seems out of place on this topic.

N
 
fspilot747
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RE: Stem Cell Research Ban - For It Or Against It?

Tue Jun 08, 2004 12:48 pm

For it. It's a shame that religion gets in the way of such potential benifit. This is the stuff of dreams.



FSP
 
MxCtrlr
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RE: Stem Cell Research Ban - For It Or Against It?

Tue Jun 08, 2004 12:51 pm

Can anyone verify if German doctors have successfully treated 35 or 36 patients with chronic heart disease? I remember a buddy of mine telling me he saw it on Discovery Health channel (coincidentally, while recovering from a heart valve transplant procedure)...If so, it is absolutely fantastic results - a 100% success rate!

MxCtrlr  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
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MD-90
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RE: Stem Cell Research Ban - For It Or Against It?

Tue Jun 08, 2004 2:38 pm

Oops. I was flippantly going by my memory. I think it should be 4,000 abortions per day, not 40,000/day.

It's become popular in recent years for Christians (usually churches) to get together and place white crosses in areas that will be widely seen by the public (with the permission of the landowner, of course). We've had that twice in my town that I know of. Sometimes it represents the national rate, sometimes a local or state rate.


Even if that 40,000 figure is inflated - even if it is only 400 a day - that's 400 chances we threw away needlessly. 400 chances to cure Alzhiemer's (and I do realize that my mother, who has Alzhiemer's, will not regain her lost memories); 400 chances to cure cancer; 400 chances to correct heart disease, lung disease, kidney disease, ALS and any of a thousand other diseases. What a waste!

Yeah, what a waste that babies are dying.



I'm telling you, sugar and white flour are bad for us. Isn't it amazing that before 1920 (or so, I'm going from memory here) there was not a single recorded case of a heart attack? Our poor nutrition (which I find highly ironic) in the United States is generally the culprit behind chronic heart disease.

As the Harvard prof told the German scientist who invented and imported the EKG machine to the US, "You should find something else to do. You're not going to make any money with that." (roughly that's what he said).
 
MD-90
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RE: Stem Cell Research Ban - For It Or Against It?

Tue Jun 08, 2004 2:41 pm

Oh, and by the way, I am not exactly enthusiastic about stem cell research because stem cells are embryonic cells that are quite capable of growing into a human being.
 
mdsh00
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RE: Stem Cell Research Ban - For It Or Against It?

Tue Jun 08, 2004 2:51 pm

MD-90. You gave the example of heart attacks. Fine. What about genetic diseases like Alzheimers and other medical conditions? Do you think that its okay to allow the already living to suffer from a disease due to some right-wing Christian crusade over an embryo?

Embryonic stem cells are capable of growing into a human being. So is a human egg. The morning-after pill prevents a possibly fertilized egg from implanting into the uterus...therefore not becoming a human being. Would you be against that too?
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
 
MxCtrlr
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RE: Stem Cell Research Ban - For It Or Against It?

Tue Jun 08, 2004 3:42 pm

It looks like the tide might be turning finally! (Let's hope!) http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/S/STEM_CELLS?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=HOME

If nothing else, it is a good first step but everyone who vehemently belives in this research needs to contact their Congressman/Congresswoman, Senators and anyone else in the Government that is in a position to change the ban. Folks, this is important!

Embryonic Stem Cells are capable of becoming any cell they need to be. That is why this research is so promising and so necessary. The possibilities of curing a multitude of presently uncurable diseases is literally endless. Add to diseases, the very real possibility of curing paralysis, and the need becomes even more apparent.

As I said previously, this has nothing to do with abortion being right or wrong. It is the so-called morality issue of using aborted fetuses to harvest embryonic stem cells. To not use these fetuses (and I'm not advocating abortion for profit here) is a horrible waste and is immoral in itself.

MxCtrlr  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
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