airxliban
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Reagan And Clinton Comparison

Wed Jun 09, 2004 9:59 am

Just got to thinking the following.

In 1992, Ronald Reagan campaigned heavily for George Bush, at the age of what....81? He referred to Bush in a number of fine ways, many of which escape my mind at them moment. At least, this is the impression that I got over the weekend watching all the reagan speeches.

Now I was too young in those days to remember / give a damn, but in 2000 I was obvioulsy older...I really cannot remember William Jefferson Clinton campaigning for Al Gore. Of course he endorsed Gore, he probably even voted for him, but I really don't remember him putting much effort into the Gore campaign.

Those of you that can compare....is my observation correct?

And if so, what are some opinoins on why this might have been the case?

Clinton may have lost a portion of his credibility in the monica scandal (and maybe a bit before that in the whitewater affair) and the polls showed it, but would that have been a reason?
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
WellHung
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RE: Reagan And Clinton Comparison

Wed Jun 09, 2004 10:09 am

Yeah, because Gore is an idiot and didn't want the help. Don't know if it was pride, stupidity or both (my guess), but distancing himself from such a popular President certainly didn't help him.
 
rjpieces
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RE: Reagan And Clinton Comparison

Wed Jun 09, 2004 10:11 am

There have been lots of stories on this. Tipper Gore supposedly influenced her husband not to have Clinton campaign. It was a very stupid move, as even though many deeply hated Clinton, he was still wildly popular and could have helped deliver some states.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
BN747
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RE: Reagan And Clinton Comparison

Wed Jun 09, 2004 11:10 am

Gore tried to play it safe... he knew the country was still embarrassed and could not handle sex talk (don't believe me.. look at how we flipped out about Janet Jackson's boob?-- 4 years later!). Gore knew many americans like to think that they are pure sexually and condemn those who aren't. He basically knew they were hypocrites.. so the puts some distance between himself and Bill and it made the race tighter than it should be. He played it right into Bush's hands.. which let him straight to Fla. where his lil' bro was the Gov... and would take it from there...

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
dl021
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RE: Reagan And Clinton Comparison

Wed Jun 09, 2004 12:57 pm

Maybe he did not want advice from someone who never got more than 47% of any national vote?

Maybe he realized that the only third party candidate that might draw away voted this time would take them from him and he wanted to separate himself from the appearance of impropriety not just for sex (for which Clinton would have been forgiven if he had told the truth) but for all the apparent impropriety with the various minor scandals that had many Americans convinced (including President Carter, judging from his statements during the campaign) that Clinton was not trustworthy.

Lets not forget the burgeoning recession into which the US entered in the spring of 2000, that Gore and his handlers (remember Daley? Did he look like a union boss or what?) thought it best to keep a certain distance from Clinton.

Now that is not to say that Gore ran an especially smart campaign, since many Americans did not really trust him either, so it is safe to say that in this most polarized of elections Gore was at a loss on how to proceed, because he knew that to play it safe he could not reveal his innermost self to the average American as that would really freak some people out. His rather liberal stances on many issues, as well as glaring instances of talkingout of both sides of his mouth during previous campaigns prevented him from felling comfortable speaking out. Remember when his true self came out during the first debate with Bush? Americans really don't like holier-than-thou I'msmarterthanyouare attitudes displayed the way Gore did with his heavy exhalations when Bush made a point he disagreed with.


I do not think that Clinton could have helped Gore the way Reagan did even if he had participated as much as some wished he had.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
Superfly
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RE: Reagan And Clinton Comparison

Wed Jun 09, 2004 1:02 pm

Dl021:
Bill Clinton got 49.9% of the popular vote in 1996. Al Gore got the second highest number of votes in 2000 just behind Reagan's total votes in 1984.
Bring back the Concorde
 
dl021
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RE: Reagan And Clinton Comparison

Wed Jun 09, 2004 1:21 pm

superfly (another cool name) thanks for the correction, but allow me to go further...49.17% for Clinton, 40.66% for Dole, and 8.39% for Perot (mostly conservatives who thought Perot would wipe out taxes and reinstall isolationism.

So, my point remains...Clinton never won a majority, simply a pair of pluralities, the first of which he would have lost if the democrats had not conned Bush 41 into breaking his no new taxes pledge, thus retaining the libertarian end of the party who thought they would be able to elect that really rich and successful nutcase (who has always been a patriot and loyal to US servicemen and his own employees, but still nutty).
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
Superfly
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RE: Reagan And Clinton Comparison

Wed Jun 09, 2004 1:30 pm

Dl021:
Keep in mind, Ralph Nader got a little over 1% of the popular vote in 1996.
Many Southern conservative Democrats voted for Ross Perot as well in 1992. In a head to head match up, Clinton would have defeated Papa Bush in 1992 and certainly would have defeated Dole in 1996.
Bring back the Concorde
 
MD-90
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RE: Reagan And Clinton Comparison

Wed Jun 09, 2004 1:34 pm

I would've voted for Perot if I hadn't been only eight in 1992.
 
mdsh00
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RE: Reagan And Clinton Comparison

Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:00 pm

"So, my point remains...Clinton never won a majority"

Then there is also the point that Gore also won more popular votes than Bush...or are you going to deny that like another blind Bush supporter.
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
 
BN747
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RE: Reagan And Clinton Comparison

Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:05 pm

I would've voted for Perot if I hadn't been only eight in 1992

hadn't... is that a word??? You would vote him... you sound just like him...

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
dl021
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RE: Reagan And Clinton Comparison

Wed Jun 09, 2004 10:03 pm

SUperfly You have to remember that most of the conservative southern democrats have tended (until recently) to vote democrat at the local level up to rep, then vote republican inthe national elections,so your premise that conservative dems would have voted for CLinton is certainly not sure fire.,. There's some reasons, but I'am about to be late for work...more later.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Reagan And Clinton Comparison

Wed Jun 09, 2004 10:19 pm

hadn't... is that a word???

Maybe YOU, BN747, should read a dictionary:

Main Entry: hadn't
Pronunciation: 'ha-d&nt, -d&n, dial also 'ha-t&n(t) or 'hant
Date: 1675
: had not


Now, who looks silly?  Laugh out loud
 
cptkrell
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RE: Reagan And Clinton Comparison

Wed Jun 09, 2004 10:30 pm

"hadn't...is that a word?"
Absolutely, BN747

"Then there is also the point that Gore also won more popular votes than Bush..."
Maybe so Mdsh00, but for the umpteenth time, the electoral college votes the winner. I should think it's time to revisit this process, but until the president is voted in by popular vote, it is a moot point.

"In a head to head match up, Clinton would have defeated Papa Bush in 1992..."
Perhaps 'Fly, but remember there is no guarantee that all voting for a third candidate would automatically vote for either of the other two if the third had not been on the ballot as DI021 alluded to.

As another interesting comparison, in 1984 Ronald Reagan won with 525 votes versus Mondale w/ 13. In 1992, Clinton won with 370 votes versus Bush w/ 168. Regards...Jack
all best; jack
 
santosdumont
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RE: Reagan And Clinton Comparison

Thu Jun 10, 2004 3:58 am

MD-90 wrote:

I would've voted for Perot if I hadn't been only eight in 1992.

Actually, I would've voted for Perot myself but he bailed out of the race when he saw just how dirty the mudslinging can get.

As for comparing Clinton and Reagan, it's worth noting that Clinton prepared himself for the 1996 Olympics in Atlanta by watching tapes of....you guessed it....Ronald Reagan at the 1984 Olympics in L.A.

"Pursuit Of Truth No Matter Where It Lies" -- Metallica
 
PHLBOS
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RE: Reagan And Clinton Comparison

Thu Jun 10, 2004 7:03 am

Another comparison worth noting:

During Reagan's first 6 years in office, the US Senate had a Republican majority; the US House of Representatives was under Democrat control during all of Reagan's 8 years. Reagan never had a full Republican Congress during his tenure at the White House.

In contrast, Clinton had an all Democrat-controlled Congress during his first 2 years and then an all Republican-controlled Congress during his remaining 6 years. Clinton never had a 'mixed' congress (one party controlling the House but the opposite party controlling the Senate).
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
L-188
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RE: Reagan And Clinton Comparison

Thu Jun 10, 2004 8:10 am

Al Gore got the second highest number of votes in 2000

Not that impressive when you factor in how much larger the country was in 2000 compared to 1984.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Superfly
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RE: Reagan And Clinton Comparison

Thu Jun 10, 2004 9:15 am

L-188:
1984 was not that long ago. Had Bush been the winner in 2000, all the right-wing crackpots on AM radio would be reminding us that Bush was 2nd. to Reagan's 1984 victory.


Cptkrell:
Actually Clinton won 373 electoral votes in 1992.  Smile

Bring back the Concorde
 
PHLBOS
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RE: Reagan And Clinton Comparison

Thu Jun 10, 2004 9:17 am

Al Gore got the second highest number of votes in 2000

Yet, he still managed to loose in his homestate of Tennessee; a loss that ultimately cost him the election. Gore's the first candidate of the 2 major parties to loose in his own state since George McGovern's '72 presidential bid.

Gore would've won without Florida had he clinched the popular vote in his homestate.

"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
EMBQA
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RE: Reagan And Clinton Comparison

Thu Jun 10, 2004 9:21 am

PHLBOS-

Good point. They really dislike him here, and I'm not even sure if he still spends time here anymore.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
Superfly
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RE: Reagan And Clinton Comparison

Thu Jun 10, 2004 9:25 am

PHLBOS:
Old news man. I was just pointing out some relavent facts that the so called liberal media never pointed out.  Smile
Bring back the Concorde
 
scottysair
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RE: Reagan And Clinton Comparison

Thu Jun 10, 2004 2:05 pm

I can see with all of those information come from. This is one of come from with the president of United States.
 
PHLBOS
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RE: Reagan And Clinton Comparison

Thu Jun 10, 2004 8:46 pm

Old news man. I was just pointing out some relavent facts that the so called liberal media never pointed out.

Superfly,

Old news about Gore and Tennessee, Yes. However, to this day, I have not heard one person from the "mainstream" media mention or point out the fact that Gore ultimately shot himself in the foot by taking his homestate for granted.
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
cptkrell
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RE: Reagan And Clinton Comparison

Thu Jun 10, 2004 9:34 pm

As for Gore in TN, I perceived during my many visits there, that many Tennesseans considered him to be more a 'Washingtonian' rather than a 'Tennessean'. Although he had TN residence, he spent most of his time up in the D.C. area. Taking for granted a 'farourite son' status can be indeed perilous.

'Fly...my bad; I cheated your guy of of 3 votes  Smile Sorry. (P.S. Will get those pics off today - promise) Regards....Jack
all best; jack
 
BN747
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RE: Reagan And Clinton Comparison

Fri Jun 11, 2004 2:10 am

Old news about Gore and Tennessee, Yes. However, to this day, I have not heard one person from the "mainstream" media mention or point out the fact that Gore ultimately shot himself in the foot by taking his homestate for granted.

Big deal, Tennesse voting officials didn't screw up.. Florida did. There doesn't need to be any focus on Tennessee at all (who cares the State dejected it's native son.. they turned on his dad too). The problem was strickly in one state.. one state where the 'vote was suspect' to say the least! Yes, Florida has been beaten to death.. but it will go down in history as the 1st where in the age of 'being able to count billions of anything.. atoms, DNA strands,etc... but 6 million votes could not be accurately counted. That is a complete sham and a awful shame.. for this day and this age of nano counting. When you think about it.... it's down right insulting!

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
L-188
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RE: Reagan And Clinton Comparison

Fri Jun 11, 2004 3:45 am

And yet all of the newpapers that funded recounts after the fact still managed to come to the same conclusion that the state election officials did.

Give up on the "misscount" B.S. allready, it didn't happen.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
BN747
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RE: Reagan And Clinton Comparison

Fri Jun 11, 2004 2:17 pm

And yet all of the newpapers that funded recounts after the fact still managed to come to the same conclusion that the state election officials did.

Give up on the "misscount" B.S. allready, it didn't happen.



You're right.. it was outright theft-election and fraud! The whole thing was hijacked before the 1st vote in the state was cast!

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
L-188
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RE: Reagan And Clinton Comparison

Fri Jun 11, 2004 2:21 pm

The whole thing was hijacked before the 1st vote in the state was cast!

You know, I work three hangers down from a helicopter company, so I probably wouldn't notice the black helicopter, whump, whump, whump sound that you would.

Here this website should help set you and other conspiracy theorists at ease.

http://zapatopi.net/afdb.html

OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
cptkrell
Posts: 3186
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RE: Reagan And Clinton Comparison

Fri Jun 11, 2004 2:36 pm

Theories are forever. I'll bet a dollar to a donut there will be another Jimmie Hoffa theory here in Detroit before fall. I've even heard (gasp!) that if all the overseas servicemen ballots were counted that Bush would have had a solid majority in FL (gasp!). Perhaps...I only say perhaps...if Al Gore had been elected, he might still be looking for his "lock box" (gasp!).

Bottom line is, live with it. Even if you don't like it and have what you believe are irrefutable theories you ain't gonna do anything but make yourself upset.

I know a lot of you don't like Willie Nelson all that much, but take a hint from one of his lyrics:
"I could cry for the time I've wasted...
but that would be a waste of time and tears"

Work with the shit you're dealt and stop yer friggin' crying. Regards...Jack
P.S. "Oh, shit...if I'd only been driving a Volkswagen" (signed) Edw. Kennedy
all best; jack

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