Andreas
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EC 2004: Germany Out! The Ultimate Bashing Thread!

Fri Jun 25, 2004 12:05 am

Ok, before somebody else does: Germany out, and deservedly so..I've rarely seen a team playing with more "well-filled" pants than ours last night! Unbelievable!!! I was so angry, I could have kicked the TV set out of the window. To play well and get kicked is ok, but that was...I don't know, words are failing me now.

Now Rudi left the sinking ship, and I can't blame him for that...Hitzfeld seems to be ready to step in. I don't feel that things'll get better then!

So since the czech press has made a point to bash Germany over this game again and again, coming up with personal insults and WW2 and such things, I thought it's ok to give the rest of Europe a chance to join the bashing.

btw: Funny I always thought the German team was one of the best teams in terms of public behaviour, no matter if they lose or win, so I don't quite get it: Where does that hate come from?? I'm not talking about the Brits, that's ok, nobody takes that serious anyway Big grin, but the Czechs ...?
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CPH-R
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RE: EC 2004: Germany Out! The Ultimate Bashing Thr

Fri Jun 25, 2004 12:06 am

Wooh, A.net is back - I was starting to get tics  Laugh out loud

Anyway, great to see that Germany couldn't even beat a Czech team with 9 new players in the starting lineup  Big thumbs up - unfortunately, it means that we will have our rear ends thoroughly whipped in the quarter finals.
 
Andreas
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RE: EC 2004: Germany Out! The Ultimate Bashing Thread!

Fri Jun 25, 2004 12:08 am

And deservedly so, you cheating lying conspiring Scandinavian bastards!!!

Signed

Italy

 Big grin Big grin Big grin
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CPH-R
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RE: EC 2004: Germany Out! The Ultimate Bashing Thr

Fri Jun 25, 2004 12:11 am

Aw, come on, it was a complete coincedence that our goalkeeper, in the 88th minute and 2-1 on the board, dropped the ball right in front of Mattias Jonson who only had to put a foot to it to score Big grin
 
Andreas
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RE: EC 2004: Germany Out! The Ultimate Bashing Thread!

Fri Jun 25, 2004 12:13 am

But absolutely...shit happens!!

signed

Rest of Europe!

 Big thumbs up
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aloges
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RE: EC 2004: Germany Out! The Ultimate Bashing Thread!

Fri Jun 25, 2004 12:14 am

I fully understand why Völler resigned - if I were in that situation, I wouldn't want to put up with the horsesh!t coming from BLÖD, either!
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
Gman94
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RE: EC 2004: Germany Out! The Ultimate Bashing Thread!

Fri Jun 25, 2004 12:16 am

My conspiracy theory senses have been working overtime and I suspect it was a German plot to bring down Airliners.net over the last day. So that the bashing of their magnificent football team would not be so intense.  Big grin
British Airways - The Way To Fly
 
Banco
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RE: EC 2004: Germany Out! The Ultimate Bashing Thread!

Fri Jun 25, 2004 12:19 am

You know, Andreas, to make an almost serious point here, I was thinking about this the other day. In times of old, Germans would simply point to how good their team is, now, in banter like we has so often, you end up talking about how good you were. To me, that says that you haven't had confidence in the team for quite a long time.

Now, the logical side of me was thinking that Germany getting through would be a good thing, because you might come up against England and you wouldn't have had a prayer - so awful are your team, but I just couldn't do it. And I was one of those laughing long and loud at your exit, I'm afraid.

The truth is, you are a poor side these days. It's like watching ten amateurs plus Ballack. He's so far above the rest of them it isn't true. you need the youngsters to come through. Schweinsteiger looked promising, but are there any others? A complete absence of anyone able to shoot straight is another major problem. Watching last night it looked like Voeller was getting ready to come on himself. Even now, he'd have done a better job.
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EGGD
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RE: EC 2004: Germany Out! The Ultimate Bashing Thread!

Fri Jun 25, 2004 12:49 am

You deserved it.
 
Russophile
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RE: EC 2004: Germany Out! The Ultimate Bashing Thread!

Fri Jun 25, 2004 12:51 am

I thought it's ok to give the rest of Europe a chance to join the bashing.

You mean with things like, it's not the first time Germany has been sent packing out of Europe, and most certainly won't be last?
 
Andreas
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RE: EC 2004: Germany Out! The Ultimate Bashing Thread!

Fri Jun 25, 2004 12:52 am

Fu#@!!!!! I just wrote a little essay about German football, and then this frigging Forum collapsed before I could save it!!!

In short: I don't knoew what you're talking about...we know that our team has been in a horrible state since 1994, which tells us something about 1996 and 2002, doesn't it?

It also is the reason why we don't have any reforms in German football...those old farts still believe something nice will happen.

In very short:

1. Hitzfels is not the right guy!

2. In 2006 we'll still have the same probs.

3. We need to adopt a system to find and leverage talent like England and France do!

That's it...laugh as long as you have something to laugh about  Big grin Big grin
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Banco
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RE: EC 2004: Germany Out! The Ultimate Bashing Thread!

Fri Jun 25, 2004 12:54 am

Andreas: We need to adopt a system to find and leverage talent like England and France do!

I'm going to copy this down and frame it. Then I'm going to remind Andreas of it every time he has a pop at us over here! Big grin

Oh, Andreas, what have you done?!!  Big grin
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airkas1
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RE: EC 2004: Germany Out! The Ultimate Bashing Thread!

Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:01 am

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA,

Signed,

Holland

 Big thumbs up Smile/happy/getting dizzy Big thumbs up
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Andreas
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RE: EC 2004: Germany Out! The Ultimate Bashing Thread!

Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:02 am

Banco...make an appointment with your doctor...you seem to be a victim of Alzheimer's disease...I've said this again and again!!!

It's just that you guys love your 5-1, whereas we go for titles...and Lisbon is still far..very far!! And that says a lot about priorities!!

What have I done?? You mean last night?? I watched the game, had a nice cool drink, closed all windows since it's getting very stormy over here, went to bed, and slept quite well until this morning, what did you think????
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racko
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RE: EC 2004: Germany Out! The Ultimate Bashing Thr

Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:02 am

I'd take Hitzfeld over the other guys who are rumoured as candidates. My personal preference would be Hitzfeld as coach and Völler as his assistant.

At least I don't have to suffer more heart attacks from Rudi's ridiculous subs. Frings might not have made a good game, but he was still worlds better than Schneider yesterday. But in the end, we didn't score, and a team which doesn't score doesn't belong in the quarter-finals of an European Cup, full stop. It was a disgrace to see the 2nd half, did anybody count the 100% chances they missed?

Anyway, if we don't find a Wayne Rooney somewhere chained to a tree at the Autobahn, we're doomed for 2006.

Oh, and Mr. Nielsen deserves the Blind-referee-of-the-tournament award 2004. What a penalty. Even more conspirators from Denmark.  Smile
 
Andreas
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RE: EC 2004: Germany Out! The Ultimate Bashing Thread!

Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:04 am

AirKas: Funny that you laugh...as usual you need help by the Germans to get your act together  Big grin Big grin
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Klaus
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RE: EC 2004: Germany Out! The Ultimate Bashing Thread!

Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:05 am

Too much money - too little motivation.
 
Andreas
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RE: EC 2004: Germany Out! The Ultimate Bashing Thread!

Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:07 am

NO WAY!!!!! If it is Hitzfeld he needs a team of abled coaches he can fully trust...the Brazilian model, that is, until we have another system in place to get out talent! It is called benchmarking...I've never understood why we don't use in football...but then our DFB guys are exemplary self-righteous arrogant small-minded farts,m so I guess It isn't really that hard to understand!!
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Banco
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RE: EC 2004: Germany Out! The Ultimate Bashing Thread!

Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:09 am

At least the German fans took the stick we dished out to them in Lisbon in good heart.  Smile

Mind you, that as before they went out! Big grin
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MD11Engineer
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RE: EC 2004: Germany Out! The Ultimate Bashing Thread!

Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:13 am

I think the big problem is the decline of the proletarian class and the advent of computer games and organised sports in Germany. I remember as a boy that mostly one of us had a ball in his schoolbag and during school breaks or after school we would find some piece of lawn in a park (often illegaly), make up four goal posts out of schoolbags and start kicking. This is also what you read in the biographies of Beckenbauer, Pele and many other great football players. Most of them came from a working class background, which today only seems to exist in poorer countries. In Germany this labour class has been largely taken over by immigrants and due to German citizenship laws, the immigrant´s children don´t automatically get the German citizenship when they are born in Germany. As a result they can not play for Germany in international contests, but play for Turkey and other countries when they grow up. Also, many German youngsdters today prefer to spend their time in frontz of TV or their computers.

Jan

Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
Andreas
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RE: EC 2004: Germany Out! The Ultimate Bashing Thread!

Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:16 am

Jan a very valid point...I've been thinking that for years now. And not only that is a porblem, but the living standard in Germany in general: Other sports became popular: tennis, racing, golf...our youngsters don't necessarily go playing football after school, they just do other things!
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Banco
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RE: EC 2004: Germany Out! The Ultimate Bashing Thread!

Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:19 am

That argument doesn't really wash though. If you're looking at England as a model of how young players can come through (and I think England is a better example than France as so many of their current team learnt their early football in Africa), then how does that really differ? England and Germany are similar societies, so how come England has produced and Germany hasn't? Especially when over the years it was the other way around.
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Andreas
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RE: EC 2004: Germany Out! The Ultimate Bashing Thread!

Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:31 am

Just turn it the other way round:

If we had implemented a similar talent-leveraging system, we would be ahead of England, no doubt...that's pure statistics! We didn't, so we had to hope for some guys to come up anyway.

Since we don't have that many young footballers anymore, chance to get another Ballack are slimmer now than 20 years ago!

And as for France: Right, but then we have a lot of immigrants, too! And there's a need to scan these kids, too!! The scouts of other countries do that in Germany...why don't we do it ourselves?!?!

I've said it a hundred times: I give a rat's a§§ about where a German player was born, about his colour of skin or to which God he's praying before, during and after the game...as long as he scores!!
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MD11Engineer
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RE: EC 2004: Germany Out! The Ultimate Bashing Thread!

Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:35 am

I don´t know about English football culture, but in Germany football was always a working class sport. Up to the 1960´s e.g. many players of e.g. Schalke or Dortmund were working as miners during the week and playing on weekends for their club. They learned and refined their tehnique out in the streets and not in football schools.
I think football in England was always more accepted throughout the population while in Germany the upper class looked down on the proletarian football players.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
Banco
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RE: EC 2004: Germany Out! The Ultimate Bashing Thread!

Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:50 am

It's working class roots in England too, Jan.

Andreas, you misunderstand me. The reason I excluded France was because so many of their players started playing football in deep poverty in Senegal, which is why I was saying you can't use it as a comparison, not because fo the ethnic make up of the side. The English players, black or white, grew up in England (Hargreaves apart) and that's where the similarity is with Germany.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
Guest

RE: EC 2004: Germany Out! The Ultimate Bashing Thread!

Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:54 am

I honestly thought Germany looked an organised and efficient team in the first half of the holland match. But i said the same for Spain and Italy.


Come on England!!!!
 
Andreas
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RE: EC 2004: Germany Out! The Ultimate Bashing Thread!

Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:54 am

Looking at the French nationals...they grew up in France, were born in Africa at best. But ok, be that as it may, it's a part of society that qualifies pretty much for delivering a lot of football talent!
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Banco
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RE: EC 2004: Germany Out! The Ultimate Bashing Thread!

Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:57 am

I thought a few of them spent quite a portion of their early life there?

I could be wrong.

Anyway, it seems to me that Germany hasn't done that bad a job of developing the talent in the Turkish community. A few have come through. Certainly more than have come through for England from our Asian community.
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Andreas
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RE: EC 2004: Germany Out! The Ultimate Bashing Thread!

Fri Jun 25, 2004 2:02 am

Nope, Zidane for example was, if I remember correctly born in Algeria, but grew up in Marseille.

Now the Turkish community: Yes a lot of talent, that's for sure, but just recently there was an piece on TV on how Turkey scouts for Turkish talent in Germany and successfully brings them into the Turkish team. Germany is in fact NOT AT ALL successful doing that!
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Banco
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RE: EC 2004: Germany Out! The Ultimate Bashing Thread!

Fri Jun 25, 2004 2:10 am

Zidane, yes, but I thought Vieira was different?

Ah, well.

You can't blame the Turks for doing that. You just have to convince them to play for Germany instead.

If it makes you feel any better, for some time during the eighties and nineties, about three quarters of the Irish team was in fact English, which didn't help our mood to much when they kept beating us. Big grin
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Andreas
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RE: EC 2004: Germany Out! The Ultimate Bashing Thread!

Fri Jun 25, 2004 2:14 am

Since I'm feeling not bad at all, it doesn't help me much, but thanx anyway Big grin

Yes you have to convince them to do just that, but then you have to DO it..and nobody does so far, except some clubs, but they don't care if their young talent is playing for Germany or Turkey!

bye now!
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Guest

RE: EC 2004: Germany Out! The Ultimate Bashing Thread!

Fri Jun 25, 2004 2:14 am

Vieira was born and bread in senegal.

Which is what made France's 2002 WC efforts even more impressive.
 
zak
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RE: EC 2004: Germany Out! The Ultimate Bashing Thread!

Fri Jun 25, 2004 2:34 am

they played like a bunch of sad second league losers. the only exception were the young players + ballack(who is rather young aswell even though he is a seasoned player already).

you could see the difference between the winners and losers in general yesterday: those with highly motivated players that hunger for success will prevail. that is why i still stick to my guess that the czech team will win the tournament. they have(nedved) the best player so far in the tournament and a stunningly coherent team that is very skilled and highly motivated and has turned around every match so far.
my estimate of the other teams:

- england: they have not played a good team that was motivated yet. the first game against a sad france showed that they will not stand a chance against a motivated czech or dutch team

- france: too many problems inside the team but they might weasel themselves into the final, especially after the henry curse is cured

- denmark: great team, would be a candidate for the finals but they will get kicked out by the czechs who will win the tournament

- nederlandjes: i think they have woken up now and pose a decent threat to the swedes

- sweden: cant wait to see run and gun from both sides in the game vs holland, i expect NL to win due to the more experienced individual players
10=2
 
racko
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RE: EC 2004: Germany Out! The Ultimate Bashing Thr

Fri Jun 25, 2004 2:46 am

Or we find a scientist who can clone Ballack a few times.

Seriously, who do you think should stay in the national team? Asking for honest international opinions, too.

I think out of the 23 who were in Portugal:

(Age)
Kahn (35) - Have to see if he can keep his level from the EC until '06
Hildebrandt (25)
(Any country wanting to exchange a goalkeeper for a striker?)
Friedrich (25) - played well especially against Holland & Latvia
Hinkel (22) - didn't play but if he develops well he might reach a good level
Lahm (20) - best field player after Ballack in the EC
Ballack (27) - no comment needed
Hamann (30) - is often invisible but effective, bad against the Czechs
Schweinsteiger (19) - promising, still makes too many mistakes, but he's young
Frings (27) - didn't play too well in the EC, but is usually a good player
Kuranyi (22) - not as an attacker, but as a player right behind them
Podolski (18) - have to see how he develops, should quit Cologne!

This means that the players I don't want to see anymore are:
Lehmann - Baumann - Nowotny - Wörns - Ziege - Ernst - Jeremies - Kehl - Schneider - Bobic - Brdaric - Klose
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: EC 2004: Germany Out! The Ultimate Bashing Thread!

Fri Jun 25, 2004 4:06 am

So since the czech press has made a point to bash Germany over this game again and again, coming up with personal insults and WW2 and such things, I thought it's ok to give the rest of Europe a chance to join the bashing.

Andreas,
I usually have hardly anything positive to say about the Czech press (any press in general), but didn't notice any "personal insults" or "WW2 references" in todays newspaper - there arem't that many of them: 4 major broadsheets, 1 tabloid, 1 sports. Any particular example? Mabe you are getting much into self-pity?
Hey, it's just a game! 11+11 overpaid, arrogant guys with bad haircuts chasing a ball...
 
EGGD
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RE: EC 2004: Germany Out! The Ultimate Bashing Thread!

Fri Jun 25, 2004 6:31 am

England out on Penalties. Why do I get the feeling of de javú? We won the game, fair and square, but Portugal luckily had the extra man and that made the difference. Also good job to them for taking out our best player, good thinking.
 
racko
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RE: EC 2004: Germany Out! The Ultimate Bashing Thr

Fri Jun 25, 2004 7:05 am

Don't whine, be fair. Portugal was the better team and Terry clearly attacked Ricardo in the 89th minute.
 
Arsenal@LHR
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RE: EC 2004: Germany Out! The Ultimate Bashing Thread!

Fri Jun 25, 2004 7:23 am

Worst German team in living memory, apart from Ballack, Kahn and Hamann, i don't recognise any of the German players.

Don't whine, be fair. Portugal was the better team and Terry clearly attacked Ricardo in the 89th minute.

You must be joking! "Attacked"? Where are your arms suppose to be when you jump for the ball in the air? In your pockets? Behind your back? It's a contact sport and a man's game, and if you can't take a slight nudge in a situation like that then you shouldn't be in the game. England were robbed by a sick decision by the referee.

In Arsene we trust!!
 
777heavy
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RE: EC 2004: Germany Out! The Ultimate Bashing Thread!

Fri Jun 25, 2004 7:27 am

Arsenal@LHR

Stop whining its over!!!

Welcome home Big grin
Well done Germany!
 
Arsenal@LHR
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RE: EC 2004: Germany Out! The Ultimate Bashing Thread!

Fri Jun 25, 2004 7:31 am

It's alright for you smug Germans, you knew this awful German stood no chance in this tournament, so you take your delight from seeing England going out.

In Arsene we trust!!
 
777heavy
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RE: EC 2004: Germany Out! The Ultimate Bashing Thread!

Fri Jun 25, 2004 7:43 am

Your are absolutly right  Big thumbs up

And I love it!
Well done Germany!
 
pelican
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RE: EC 2004: Germany Out! The Ultimate Bashing Thread!

Fri Jun 25, 2004 7:44 am

Arsenal@LHR - of course we do  Big thumbs up

And because you English knew you had a chance and failed to snap at it - you blame everybody but your team.

pelican
 
Andreas
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RE: EC 2004: Germany Out! The Ultimate Bashing Thread!

Fri Jun 25, 2004 4:35 pm

L410Turbolet:

if you knew me and my postings a bit better you'd know that I'm always at the front when it comes to bantering with others about football and I'm definitely someone who can take it from others quite well...let the Engelaenders on this Forum confirm that!

I didn't of course read the Czech press, since I don't know your language, but referred to the press review in Germany, and what I saw was less than pleasant. If they are wrong or put it out of context...I apologize!

Self-Pity???? No, that's definitely NOT the general feeling in Germany right now...it's sheer anger at those morons, nothing else...and as you probably know, we are dealing with this anger right now!


Arsenal and all other Brits: Great game, thanx for spectacular entertainment last night, really good, but anyway. Congrats for flying home...couldn't happen to a more deserving bunch  Big grin Big grin Big grin Big grin
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