L-188
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Cosby On Racisim, Volume Two.

Fri Jul 02, 2004 4:16 pm

Well I am sure everybody remembers the wee bit of controvery that Bill Cosby stired up about a month ago.

Well, it looks like he came out swinging in round two. I'll let the article do the talking. But I do think he has some good points, that apply to all groups.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/07/01/cosby.comments.ap/index.html
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mdsh00
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RE: Cosby On Racisim, Volume Two.

Fri Jul 02, 2004 4:34 pm

Interesting,

I think that Cosby has some very good and accurate statements in that. There isn't much more to say about that. He's getting out there and saying what many people are afraid to say.
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
 
MxCtrlr
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RE: Cosby On Racisim, Volume Two.

Fri Jul 02, 2004 4:39 pm

The problem for Cosby is that most of the people he was referring to will brand him a sell-out or an Uncle Tom rather than listen to the truth and do something about it.

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HOMER71
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RE: Cosby On Racisim, Volume Two.

Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:48 pm

Well, he spoke at a PUSH/Rainbow Coalition function...so will they think Jesse Jackson is a sell-out as well?
"On spaceship earth there are no passengers...only crew."
 
jaysit
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RE: Cosby On Racisim, Volume Two.

Fri Jul 02, 2004 11:29 pm

"The problem for Cosby is that most of the people he was referring to will brand him a sell-out or an Uncle Tom rather than listen to the truth and do something about it."

So far it hasn't happened. Cosby is couching this in a classic civil rights historical context and I think its wonderful.

I was part of a student mentorship program in DC for inner city kids, and was really quite shocked to learn that many of these kids (nor their parents) knew anything about the civil rights struggle other than the fact that MLK was a hero their grandmother revered. Needless to say, they were bad at math and science too. Cosby can help change that.

The BIG question is how the hell does Cosby understand what Jackson says?
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L-188
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RE: Cosby On Racisim, Volume Two.

Fri Jul 02, 2004 11:33 pm

Although not a scientific poll, Cosby's comments have resulted in the single most lopsided poll results I can recall ever seeing....98% to 2% in saying Cosby was justified. About 100,000 people have answered it.

Http://www.cnn.com
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jaysit
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RE: Cosby On Racisim, Volume Two.

Fri Jul 02, 2004 11:36 pm

Maybe Cosby should run for President.

Maybe he is??????
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FlagshipAZ
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RE: Cosby On Racisim, Volume Two.

Sat Jul 03, 2004 12:28 am

If Cosby runs for President, he certainly has my vote. And I agree with L-188...what Cosby is saying, should apply to all groups. Regards.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
 
mdsh00
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RE: Cosby On Racisim, Volume Two.

Sat Jul 03, 2004 2:13 am

Maybe we can get enough people to write him in as President.  Laugh out loud

That man is a testament to the power of puddin' pops.  Big thumbs up
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
 
diamond
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RE: Cosby On Racisim, Volume Two.

Sat Jul 03, 2004 2:25 am

Cosby is in a unique position to address HIS concerns to people of HIS own race. I don't think that he will benefit from any white person trying to support him, at this point.

If his community believes that he is preaching another race's viewpoint to them, it will fall on deaf ears. If they can accept his views as being his own - they might benefit from them.
Blank.
 
SESGDL
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RE: Cosby On Racisim, Volume Two.

Sat Jul 03, 2004 3:55 am

I fully agree with him, but I disagree with the fact that he's singling out blacks. Whites, Hispanics, Asians, Native Americans, all have problems. I've noticed many of the things he mentioned occurring heavily in the white, Asian, and Hispanic population as well. I agree with him on many points, but as a black American I'm really getting tired of him singling us out.

L-188,

Of course people voted like that. Whites have been waiting for someone to tell the problems of black people who is black themself. This country is predominantly white, so no surprise. If this were a predominantly black country and someone was complaining about whites, blacks would approve too. It doesn't make it right. I think his comments were unnecessary and ridiculous. Why doesn't he talk about some other race? What does BILL COSBY know about poor, urban, black people?!? He makes these comments and then goes back to his $40 million mansion. Talk about hypocritical. Yeah sure

Jeremy
 
767Lover
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RE: Cosby On Racisim, Volume Two.

Sat Jul 03, 2004 4:07 am

Why doesn't he talk about some other race? What does BILL COSBY know about poor, urban, black people?!? He makes these comments and then goes back to his $40 million mansion. Talk about hypocritical.

Interesting you bring this up. I spent a few hours on a car trip last weekend with some black friends of mine, one of whom grew up in the projects and is now a successful entrepreneur (after many successful years in the corporate world, I might add.)

So, having grown up with a single mother in a poor, urban life, she knows a thing or two about the black experience.

Anyway, during the car trip, another friend of ours (white) mentioned the new movie White Girls by the (black) Wayans brothers. My black friend immediately grimaced and said that she despises movies like that as they only reinforce negative stereotypes.

She was fully behind the points Cosby had publicly made last May.
 
mdsh00
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RE: Cosby On Racisim, Volume Two.

Sat Jul 03, 2004 4:40 am

But I disagree with the fact that he's singling out blacks.

I suppose that's true, but I wouldn't expect him to come out and talk about other races or else he would lose credibility among others and be branded a racist. He had the ability to speak out against blacks because he is black himself. Do you think that people would think highly of his words if he made points about whites, hispanics, and asians? It's like that saying that change comes from within. Cosby spoke out against blacks because he was understanding of the black culture and experience.

now all we need is a white, asian, and hispanic critic of their own race and it will be all good!  Big thumbs up
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
 
SESGDL
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RE: Cosby On Racisim, Volume Two.

Sun Jul 04, 2004 11:09 am

Actually,

I'd liked to state some things that were unmentioned in my previous post. I blame little on blacks, they've been held down far too long. They were slaves in America for over 100 years, came from nowhere in most cases, yet we have still not been able to rid ourselves of many problems. We are still the poorest ethnic group in the US, and you don't all become rich overnight. The media and the rest of the country is quick to blame everything bad on blacks, and I'm tired of it. Blacks have achieved a LOT in this country, yet those achievements are completely overshadowed by comments like Cosby's, coming from angry people who'd otherwise know little about anyone's problems. I'd like to hear complaints about the other races, unfortunately this is America, so in other words... Not gonna happen. Maybe one day though.

Jeremy
 
LHMark
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RE: Cosby On Racisim, Volume Two.

Sun Jul 04, 2004 11:34 am

Actually, Bill Cosby grew up in the Philly projects. He started out poor. Jeremy raises a lot of good points that I doubt Mr. Cosby would disagree with, but I think what infuriates Bill is that, rather than take the steps necessary to succeed despite these problems, too many black youth (and others, of course, but outside the scope of this discussion) celebrate ignorance and decry furthering the very education that allowed black Americans' great historical achievements.

Of course, it's easy to say that until you consider the mess that is an urban school system, and a lot of black youth will never have the opportunity for a high standard of official education through the schools. That's when the parental influence is at its most important. If your kid is in a crap school, teach him or her at home. Instill a working knowledge of the library. Most important, the parent must develop an intellectual curiosity in their child.

I just don't see the economic and social problems in the black community getting better if learning is shunned in the name of "keeping it real." Wouldn't it be better to "keep it real" the way George Washington Carver, Frederick Douglass, Ralph Bunche, and W.E.B. DuBois did?
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j_hallgren
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RE: Cosby On Racisim, Volume Two.

Sun Jul 04, 2004 4:45 pm

You DON'T have to be rich to talk without using expletives and other language such as he mentions...anyone can talk properly if they have good examples to go by...
COBOL - Not a dead language yet!
 
EMBQA
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RE: Cosby On Racisim, Volume Two.

Sun Jul 04, 2004 9:42 pm

I have seen parts of both speaches and it's really nothing all that new. If you have ever heard him talk, or watched any of his 1st 'Cosby Show' he's been saying the samething for 20+ years. Get an education, stay in school, go to college, parents take responsiablity for your kids, get a good job, work hard and nothing worth anything will ever be handed to you... What's so wrong with that.....?
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DC10GUY
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RE: Cosby On Racisim, Volume Two.

Mon Jul 05, 2004 12:13 pm

Boy oh boy, The republicans sure do love it when the blacks turn on each other don't they .... Ever wonder why ??? It ain't cause they care about them that's for sure.
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
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yyz717
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RE: Cosby On Racisim, Volume Two.

Mon Jul 05, 2004 12:30 pm

Didn't Bill Cosby have a son who was killed in a gang-land style killing? Perhaps he should have raised his own family better, before becoming a spokesman for blacks. Lead by example Bill.

Anyway, Cosby is really nothing more than an aging comic of dubious skill. Why are his views given so much credence anyway?

[Edited 2004-07-05 05:48:17]
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JBirdAV8r
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RE: Cosby On Racisim, Volume Two.

Mon Jul 05, 2004 1:55 pm

Ahh, poor, ill-informed Yyz717 strikes again. Will he ever learn? My guess is "no".

Educate yourself by following this link, YYZ, for all of us. Please.

http://www.findadeath.com/Deceased/c/Ennis%20Cosby/ennis_cosby.htm
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QIguy24
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RE: Cosby On Racisim, Volume Two.

Mon Jul 05, 2004 2:06 pm

The guy who shot Ennis, wasn't he Russian or something? All I remember is he was brought to court and gave everybody "the bird" when he came out of the court building.
 
JBirdAV8r
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RE: Cosby On Racisim, Volume Two.

Mon Jul 05, 2004 2:15 pm

QIguy,

Mikhail Markhasev was a 19 year old Ukrainian immigrant. And you were right about "the bird"....(probably read that on my link  Big grin)

I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
QIguy24
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RE: Cosby On Racisim, Volume Two.

Mon Jul 05, 2004 2:24 pm

JBirdAV8r,

I actually didn't read your link. It didn't work on my computer.  Sad
I just remember this incident from the Danish news. It was actually pretty big here. Did he get lifetime in jail or what? I can't remember the his penalty.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Cosby On Racisim, Volume Two.

Mon Jul 05, 2004 2:40 pm

Ahh, poor, ill-informed Yyz717 strikes again. Will he ever learn? My guess is "no". Educate yourself by following this link, YYZ, for all of us. Please.

Oh, please forgive me for not knowing all the details of yet another US gun death. There are so many in the US.  Insane

Anyway, let's not detract from the fact that Bill Cosby is a comedian/entertainer, which is pretty low on the morale scale for lifestyle respect.

If any blacks should be "lecturing" the black community on its ills, let it be a PhD, an MD, a judge, a law professor, but NOT a comedian.



[Edited 2004-07-05 07:49:00]
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QIguy24
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RE: Cosby On Racisim, Volume Two.

Mon Jul 05, 2004 2:50 pm

Yyz717

Do you think the black community would listen more to an unknown man with a PhD or an MD?
I don't think so. People respect Cosby for the man he is and for what he does for the society. Just because you maybe don't respect him doesn't mean other people don't respect him either.
Even thoug Im' not african american I respect Cosby. It takes a lot of balls to make those statements he has done lately. And he couldn't be more right of what he is saying.
 
DeskPilot
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RE: Cosby On Racisim, Volume Two.

Mon Jul 05, 2004 2:52 pm

Yyz717, why not a comedian ?

Who grades occupations into those who can comment and those who can't ?
That's just elitism.
By the way, is there anyone on board who knows how to fly a plane?
 
JBirdAV8r
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RE: Cosby On Racisim, Volume Two.

Mon Jul 05, 2004 3:52 pm

Oh, please forgive me for not knowing all the details of yet another US gun death. There are so many in the US

And all of them are obviously gang-related? Hmm. Those peaceful, bright Canucks are so much better than those stupid, barbaric Americans, now, aren't they?

If any blacks should be "lecturing" the black community on its ills, let it be a PhD, an MD, a judge, a law professor, but NOT a comedian.

Cosby has a Ph.D in education from UMass -- read, not an "honorary" one, but one he worked his tail off for, wrote a dissertation, etc.

I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
EMBQA
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RE: Cosby On Racisim, Volume Two.

Tue Jul 06, 2004 7:12 am

Geeezz Yyz717...Your batting a big ZERO on your facts and statements......!!

Didn't Bill Cosby have a son who was killed in a gang-land style killing? Perhaps he should have raised his own family better, before becoming a spokesman for blacks. Lead by example Bill.

As stated above.... Ennis was taking a break from working on his Masters Degree, and if I remember correctly was returning from a Youth Center when his car broke down. He was shot during a robbery while changing his tire.


If any blacks should be "lecturing" the black community on its ills, let it be a PhD, an MD, a judge, a law professor, but NOT a comedian.

Dr. William Cosby Ph.D (as stated above)

Temple University, Philadelphia, PA; B.A.; Radio/TV/Film
University of Massachusetts--Amherst; M.A.; Education, 1972; Ph.D; Education, 1977
...if you'll notice, two outstanding schools and no easy rides..!!


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
airplay
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RE: Cosby On Racisim, Volume Two.

Tue Jul 06, 2004 7:35 am

And all of them are obviously gang-related? Hmm. Those peaceful, bright Canucks are so much better than those stupid, barbaric Americans, now, aren't they?

Hey...don't pin YYZ717's comments on Canada. We Canadians don't give creedance to much of what he says either....

The people are right YYZ717. This seems to be just another case of you trying to push people's buttons to stimulate a fight. I think the proper term for people like that is a "troll".
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Cosby On Racisim, Volume Two.

Tue Jul 06, 2004 7:57 am


And after repeatedly getting his head handed to him, Yyz717 has bid us all good night...





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JBirdAV8r
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RE: Cosby On Racisim, Volume Two.

Tue Jul 06, 2004 2:57 pm

Airplay,

Hey...don't pin YYZ717's comments on Canada. We Canadians don't give creedance to much of what he says either....

Touche!
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mark777300
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RE: Cosby On Racisim, Volume Two.

Tue Jul 06, 2004 4:15 pm

I for one compliment Cosby on his comments. But the education thing is not just only about blacks. The youth as a whole, (white, black, hispanic) in my opinion are troubled and seem to lack the education that most of us were exposed to as youths. But Cosby point is simple, and what I got out of it is that (as he said it) black kids are not reading enough, and are not focusing enough on their education and seemed to be tied up with image, or what is cool. Nothing different here, ALL youths have to be cool or in be in the "in crowd". Regardless, it should be a message to everyone that it doesn't matter where you come from, but if you work hard enough, you will succeed like Mr. Cosby did. Why does he single out Blacks? Because he is black and probably feels that he would be and actually is a very good role model for young African Americans. Everyone should pause a second and realize that image is not everything, and that having an education will take you a lot further than your image will.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Cosby On Racisim, Volume Two.

Tue Jul 06, 2004 4:16 pm

Cosby is known to middle America as a comic, a rather dubious professional from which to be lecturing his racial group on child rearing. Regardless of some PhD.

It's also very disappointing that a man with a PhD would choose to waste his life as a cartoon comic and soap opera star. So much for helping to improve the world.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
QIguy24
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RE: Cosby On Racisim, Volume Two.

Tue Jul 06, 2004 5:01 pm

It's also very disappointing that a man with a PhD would choose to waste his life as a cartoon comic and soap opera star. So much for helping to improve the world.

After reading your profile and your occupation. What good do you do for the world if you don't work and only practicing your sailing skills?

Haven't you seen all these good things that the man does for the community? I would like to see more stars like him do the same thing.
 
flyboy36y
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RE: Cosby On Racisim, Volume Two.

Tue Jul 06, 2004 9:57 pm

It's also very disappointing that a man with a PhD would choose to waste his life as a cartoon comic and soap opera star. So much for helping to improve the world.

Well, what the hell do you think he's trying to do now?!

Besides, there is NOTHING wrong with being a comedian.
 
SSTjumbo
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RE: Cosby On Racisim, Volume Two.

Tue Jul 06, 2004 10:14 pm

Yyz717, since you seem to have all the answers, how would you handle Cosby's situation, same, different? Answer as you wish...
I don't know, so this is my signature.
 
EMBQA
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RE: Cosby On Racisim, Volume Two.

Tue Jul 06, 2004 10:30 pm

It's also very disappointing that a man with a PhD would choose to waste his life as a cartoon comic and soap opera star. So much for helping to improve the world.

Dude..you might as well give it up as your wrong...AGAIN..!! Bill Cosby and his wife have given MILLIONS to help underprivileged kids get a college education, have been tireless on their pursuit of bettering the education system and are huge advocates of the importance of a good education...and this is just the tip of the iceberg as to what Camille and he have done.

So, unless you know the FACTS, it's best you stop putting your foot in your mouth
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Cosby On Racisim, Volume Two.

Wed Jul 07, 2004 1:35 am

Cosby is known to middle America as a comic, a rather dubious professional from which to be lecturing his racial group on child rearing. Regardless of some PhD.

Translation: Don't burden me with things like facts and details! They don't matter!

Nice try.  Insane
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CaptOveur
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RE: Cosby On Racisim, Volume Two.

Wed Jul 07, 2004 2:13 am

OK here is something that is nagging at me. Say you are black, who would you rather listen to:

Jesse Jackson: Self proclaimed "leader" and "Reverend" of a questionable charity that makes it's money off extorting money out of companies that do something that might be considered racist by .0005% of the black community.

or

Bill Cosby: A man with a PhD from a reputable school who chose to use his brains to be a very successful comedian and attempted to be a role model for the black community. He earned all his money through hard work, even though it may not have been in a YYZ717 approved line of work.


Jesse Jackson sort of represents what Bill Cosby is complaining about, someone who does not want to work hard to get ahead and prefers to leech off others.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
SESGDL
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RE: Cosby On Racisim, Volume Two.

Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:32 am

"It's also very disappointing that a man with a PhD would choose to waste his life as a cartoon comic and soap opera star. So much for helping to improve the world."

Sorry my friend, but that's what makes the world go round. Comedians are just as important as anybody else, whether they are a doctor, lawyer, etc. Comedians need to be smart too, no one wants to listen to a dumb comedian. And since when has being a comedian and an actor been wasting a life? I think your life and everyone elses would be much different without entertainers. Your comments have been genuinely ignorant.

Jeremy
 
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yyz717
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RE: Cosby On Racisim, Volume Two.

Wed Jul 07, 2004 4:43 am

Yyz717, since you seem to have all the answers, how would you handle Cosby's situation, same, different? Answer as you wish...

I don't have all the answers, indeed I never said I did. I merely ventured an opinion that a comedian was a rather ill-equipped professional from which to be preaching child-rearing to an entire race of people. I am merely one of many who hold comedians in fairly low regard.

Can you imagine George Carlin or Phyllis Diller standing up & preaching to white people about how to raise white children?  Insane

Ludicrious, isn't it? Well, no more ludicrous than Bill Cosby.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
EMBQA
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RE: Cosby On Racisim, Volume Two.

Wed Jul 07, 2004 4:54 am

YYZ717-

ludicrous, isn't it? Well, no more ludicrous than Bill Cosby.

Ok, lets look at it this way..... Would you listen to a parent that has raised 5 children ALL of whom have college educations, BA's, MA's and Ph.d...all of whom went to VERY good college's noted for their high academia. The parents themselves both have Ph'Ds...?? I think I would. They have made it quite clear that they understand the idea of hard work, studying, pushing yourself to excel and the importance of a good education.

Dr Cosby is on the Board of Directors for several major US corporations, not for him name, but for the base of knowledge and business sense he brings to the board room.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
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yyz717
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RE: Cosby On Racisim, Volume Two.

Wed Jul 07, 2004 5:01 am

I'm not denying any of your facts, but he's a comedian (and a soap opera star). He made a career out of people not taking him seriously! Hence, it is simply hard to take him seriously when he has led such an epicurian career!

A comedian (and a soap opera star) is not a reasonable career goal 99.9999% of children can or should aspire to, so he is not really setting an example to anyone worth emulating.

Let's hear from Clarence Thomas, Anita Hill, Condie Rice or Colin Powell on this topic, but please not an aging comedian (and soap opera star).

Can you imagine Ethel Merman advising whites on how to raise white children? Simply because she was a famous (white) actress/comedian? Or Martha Rae? Or George Burns?






I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
jaysit
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RE: Cosby On Racisim, Volume Two.

Wed Jul 07, 2004 6:11 am

"Didn't Bill Cosby have a son who was killed in a gang-land style killing? Perhaps he should have raised his own family better"

Yet another case of an internet fart coming from across the border.

His son wasnt killed in a gangland slaying. He was killed by a Russian born teen in a carjacking attempt.

And what would Condi Rice tell black children (or brown children, or white children, or tall children?)? How to lie in order to keep her damned job?
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
L-188
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RE: Cosby On Racisim, Volume Two.

Wed Jul 07, 2004 6:14 am

I'm not denying any of your facts, but he's a comedian (and a soap opera star). He made a career out of people not taking him seriously! Hence, it is simply hard to take him seriously when he has led such an epicurian career!

Yyz717, Have you even heard any of his albums? Most of his materials dealt with raising his families.

OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
CaptOveur
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RE: Cosby On Racisim, Volume Two.

Wed Jul 07, 2004 6:16 am

Just so you don't go through your entire life ignorant, like you seem to want to, YYZ717. Comparing George Carlin to Bill Cosby is a perfect example of comparing apples and oranges.

As was stated earlier when you got your ass handed to you. Bill Cosby has a PhD, which he earned, he was quite successful as a comedian and has not yet pissed away his entire fortune like many people who were famous 20 years ago. He is on the board of many companies, many charities like to have him around, he brings a great combination to the table, one which you do not see much of anymore.. Smarts and fame.

Colin Powell might say some of the same things when he is no longer in a political position. He probably feels much the same way as Dr. Cosby. Thanks to the nature of his job though it would not be a good idea for him to do so at this time.

Same situation as above with Clarence Thomas, Condi Rice, etc. These are all examples of black people that got off their asses and did something with themselves instead of blaming "the man" for their problems growing up.

I am pretty sure George Carlin never finished high school, which is typical of many people in Hollywood. Many of the actors who actually went to college never graduated. The few that did mostly studied theater or drama or some other bullshit this is part of why it is so funny to see them make political speeches, they just don't get it. I am not sure you get it YYZ, Dr. Cosby has a PhD in education, this requires actual studying (something I get the impression you know little about) regardless of how unmarketable the degree is (probably part of why he took up comedy).

Regardless of all this, to do comedy you have to be pretty damned smart. To do 100% clean comedy like Bill Cosby did, you have to be nearly a genius.

If George Carlin had spent a little less time on drugs and maybe did something in college then he might actually get INVITED (as Bill Cosby was) to speak on such matters.
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LHMark
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RE: Cosby On Racisim, Volume Two.

Wed Jul 07, 2004 10:30 am

Let's hear from Clarence Thomas, Anita Hill, Condie Rice or Colin Powell on this topic, but please not an aging comedian (and soap opera star).

Let's hear it from whomever in the black community has the balls to speak up, and the influence to be heard. Shit, the population he's addressing can only hope for a career that brings them the same success as comedy brought Bill Cosby.
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RE: Cosby On Racisim, Volume Two.

Wed Jul 07, 2004 10:40 am

Let me see if I've got this straight, Yyz717 - you're taking Cosby to task for the fact that he's more well known as a comedian than as a scholar, as if that renders his PhD education as irrelevant somehow?

Is that SERIOUSLY what you're inferring?
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

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MxCtrlr
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RE: Cosby On Racisim, Volume Two.

Wed Jul 07, 2004 11:07 am

Can you imagine Ethel Merman advising whites on how to raise white children? Simply because she was a famous (white) actress/comedian? Or Martha Rae? Or George Burns?

Gee, would that be anything like Susan Sarandon, Tim Robbins, Barbara Streisand & Martin Sheen trying to advise people on politics?  Yeah sure

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RE: Cosby On Racisim, Volume Two.

Wed Jul 07, 2004 12:12 pm

YYZ717, are we going to have to take the shovel away before you bury yourself?
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