airmale
Posts: 7125
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 4:48 pm

Israeli Agents Caught Seeking New Zealand Passport

Fri Jul 16, 2004 11:46 pm

Two Israeli agents have been caught in New Zealand trying to illegally secure a passport that belonged to a man suffering from Cerebral Palsy, details http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?storyID=3578684&thesection=news&thesubsection=general.

[Edited 2004-07-16 16:49:52]
.....up there with the best!
 
pacificjourney
Posts: 2659
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2001 9:12 pm

RE: Israely Agents Caught Seeking New Zealand Passport

Fri Jul 16, 2004 11:51 pm

No sweat.

We'll just deny everything and then remind everyone of the holocaust and then get the US to bail us out.

We can screw over whom ever we like cause the US government has our balls hanging on their chin !

signed Israel
" Help, help ... I'm being oppressed ... "
 
JAL777
Posts: 2453
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 10:13 pm

RE: Israeli Agents Caught Seeking New Zealand Passport

Fri Jul 16, 2004 11:53 pm

Man... they suck at the espionage.
 
pacificjourney
Posts: 2659
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2001 9:12 pm

RE: Israeli Agents Caught Seeking New Zealand Passport

Fri Jul 16, 2004 11:57 pm

The $50k donation each is a nice touch .... wonder which american, tax exempt "charity" will pay that ?
" Help, help ... I'm being oppressed ... "
 
User avatar
yyz717
Posts: 15689
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: Israeli Agents Caught Seeking New Zealand Passport

Sat Jul 17, 2004 12:07 am

A few years ago some Mossad agents were caught with fake Canadian passports.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
UTA_flyinghigh
Posts: 6304
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2001 8:46 pm

RE: Israeli Agents Caught Seeking New Zealand Passport

Sat Jul 17, 2004 12:08 am

So what else is new.

UTA
Fly to live, live to fly - Air France/KLM Flying Blue Platinum, BMI Diamond Club Gold, Emirates Skywards
 
airmale
Posts: 7125
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 4:48 pm

RE: Israeli Agents Caught Seeking New Zealand Passport

Sat Jul 17, 2004 12:31 am

Whats new is that the New Zealnd govt. is very angry unlike the other states where Israeli agents have been caught and things have been hushed up. http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=1922

[Edited 2004-07-16 17:40:47]
.....up there with the best!
 
UTA_flyinghigh
Posts: 6304
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2001 8:46 pm

RE: Israeli Agents Caught Seeking New Zealand Passport

Sat Jul 17, 2004 12:34 am

Now let's see what the NZ government actually do with them.

UTA
Fly to live, live to fly - Air France/KLM Flying Blue Platinum, BMI Diamond Club Gold, Emirates Skywards
 
scottysair
Posts: 6442
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 4:07 pm

RE: Israeli Agents Caught Seeking New Zealand Passport

Sat Jul 17, 2004 12:35 am

What happening with these guy was caught with the Israeli passports and they were trying enter into the countries.
 
Gman94
Posts: 1167
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 2:56 am

RE: Israeli Agents Caught Seeking New Zealand Passport

Sat Jul 17, 2004 12:36 am

Now let's see what the NZ government actually do with them.

Let the All Blacks have a game of rugger with them.  Big grin
British Airways - The Way To Fly
 
Guest

RE: Israeli Agents Caught Seeking New Zealand Passport

Sat Jul 17, 2004 12:39 am

Actually, UTA, the NZ govt can get as severe as they want with them: Israel is an easy whipping-boy after all.
Unlike the situation with the French intelligence officers, initially jailed in NZ for MURDERING the greenpeace activists: unbearable pressure by the french govt had them returned to France and released pronto.

Those who live in glass houses....
 
scottysair
Posts: 6442
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 4:07 pm

RE: Israeli Agents Caught Seeking New Zealand Passport

Sat Jul 17, 2004 12:42 am

Can you somebody talk to me about what is going on with NZ passports in Israel?
 
OD720
Posts: 1856
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 6:46 am

RE: Israeli Agents Caught Seeking New Zealand Passport

Sat Jul 17, 2004 2:26 am

ScottysAir,

It will be hard to get an answer since most in here will focus themselves in bashing the other party. Soon the story will be forgotten and stories of innocent Palestenian and Israelis killed will be told.

To keep a long story short, in a land far far away, two Israelis tried to play some espionage games using NZ passports as a cover which angered the New Zealanders.

New Zealand is most famous for such productions as The Lord Of The Rings and Xena. Not much else is known about the country.

 
ushermittwoch
Posts: 2530
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 10:18 pm

RE: Israeli Agents Caught Seeking New Zealand Pass

Sat Jul 17, 2004 2:35 am

OD, now you''ve got some serious beef with the NZ sheep industry...
(Yes, the pun was intended)
 Laugh out loud
Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13916
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Israeli Agents Caught Seeking New Zealand Passport

Sat Jul 17, 2004 2:53 am

The Canadians were p*ssed off a few years ago when Israeli spies were caught in a third country camouflaging as Canadian journalists, becauseacc. to the Canadian government it would endanger Canadians in future. Also, each government wants to keep control over who uses their passports.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
OD720
Posts: 1856
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 6:46 am

RE: Israeli Agents Caught Seeking New Zealand Passport

Sat Jul 17, 2004 3:17 am

Cheers Ushermittwoch. So is it Zena or Xena. Got a little confused  Smile
 
ushermittwoch
Posts: 2530
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 10:18 pm

RE: Israeli Agents Caught Seeking New Zealand Pass

Sat Jul 17, 2004 3:30 am

It's Xena (Warrior Princess)*, but it's pronounced "Zena".


*Why do I know this kind of stuff?!
Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
User avatar
yyz717
Posts: 15689
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: Israeli Agents Caught Seeking New Zealand Passport

Sat Jul 17, 2004 3:38 am

NZ has "frozen" relations, whatever that means.

NZ should recall its embassador and kick out the Israeli embassador. Also, NZ should consider breaking off diplomatic relations. This is not the first time Israel has done this.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
BA
Posts: 10133
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: Israeli Agents Caught Seeking New Zealand Passport

Sat Jul 17, 2004 5:30 am

Israel always recruits Mossad agents and people to work for the Mossad to do espionage around the world.

Less then two months ago, Lebanese security officials caught a group of Arabs (Lebanese, Tunisian, and Egyptian) working for Israel who were recruited by Israeli Mossad agents in Tunisia....

It's become quite routine.....

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
phxairfan
Posts: 781
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 6:22 am

RE: Israeli Agents Caught Seeking New Zealand Pass

Sat Jul 17, 2004 6:05 am

This same thing happened a few months ago with a different batch of people. I'll say then what I say now, they deserve to be punished for what they did as it was wrong. But don't try to tell me that Israel is the only one that does this. And of course leave it to Cedarwings to bash Israel and the entire Israeli people, because he's bitter that his country isn't as advanced. But of course the reason Israel is so advanced is because they steal everything, not because they actually WORK for things to advance their civilization.
 
ushermittwoch
Posts: 2530
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 10:18 pm

RE: Israeli Agents Caught Seeking New Zealand Pass

Sat Jul 17, 2004 6:19 am

"But of course the reason Israel is so advanced is because they steal everything, not because they actually WORK for things to advance their civilization."

Only true in parts but people from the US will always deny this, since that's how their country is the master of stealing technology.
Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
phxairfan
Posts: 781
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 6:22 am

RE: Israeli Agents Caught Seeking New Zealand Pass

Sat Jul 17, 2004 6:44 am

Ok Ushermittwoch, we are the great satan and we steal everyone's technology. How else are we supposed to get anywhere. Remember what Michael Moore says us Americans are stupid, we could never come up with anything ourselves! Come on man give me a break.
 
ushermittwoch
Posts: 2530
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 10:18 pm

RE: Israeli Agents Caught Seeking New Zealand Pass

Sat Jul 17, 2004 6:51 am

I am just stating historical facts.

And before you state that other nations should "work" to advance, look at your country first.
Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
phxairfan
Posts: 781
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 6:22 am

RE: Israeli Agents Caught Seeking New Zealand Pass

Sat Jul 17, 2004 6:55 am

What historical facts? Why don't you share some of them with us. If they are true and you are right I'll consider myself enlightened.

Look at my country? What about it, it is the most advanced in the world. It is the center of the world economy, and the forefront of technology. What is your point? Instead of blanket statements why don't you back up your accusations.
 
ushermittwoch
Posts: 2530
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 10:18 pm

RE: Israeli Agents Caught Seeking New Zealand Pass

Sat Jul 17, 2004 7:22 am

Since I can't be bothered to list everything here, I'll give you one of the main "achievements" of your country, namely "Operation Paperclip".
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=122

If you want a more "reliable" source, try Knox & Marston's "Human Geography".

Not to mention the constant spying that your country is still conducting in Europe. But I am sure that it's used SOLELY for military purposes...
Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
phxairfan
Posts: 781
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 6:22 am

RE: Israeli Agents Caught Seeking New Zealand Pass

Sat Jul 17, 2004 7:37 am

So after World II we took captured German scientists and out them to work in America helping to benefit our science. Then they had the nerve to help us technologically during the cold war in which we were ALLIES. Many of them stayed and helped the US well into the 70's, I sure because they were held at gunpoint the entire time. There is a difference between "stealing" and "sharing". Taking the previously made plans of German scientists and using them as our own would qualify as stealing. Having German scientists working for the US is not stealing. In this current day in age our countries share information as friends and allies. During the early part of the 20th century Germany was the pinnacle of science in the world. Before World War I 90% of patents filed in the world were by Germans. Difference is now, that America is the pinnacle of science. To believe that we got everything we know from "stolen" German scientists is laughable. I'm sorry you feel your country is getting the short end, but if you want me to believe that the Nazi's took nothing from the people they defeated. Then I honestly want to know what history books you are reading.

If you think that the United States is the only nation that "spies" to gain intelligence, then I pity you. Your country is just as guilty as the US in this department. Spying is just another word for intelligence gathering. If getting information about another country is spying, then every country in the world does it.
 
174thfwff
Posts: 2831
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 12:47 am

RE: Israeli Agents Caught Seeking New Zealand Passport

Sat Jul 17, 2004 9:46 am

Play nice guys, or don't play at all. Keep on topic.
Brooklyn, Queens, Manhattan, Staten, Uptown, what now? Lets make it happen.
 
ZKSUJ
Posts: 6808
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 5:15 pm

RE: Israeli Agents Caught Seeking New Zealand Passport

Sat Jul 17, 2004 2:37 pm

"New Zealand is most famous for such productions as The Lord Of The Rings and Xena. Not much else is known about the country."
Xena starred Lucy Lawless who is a NZer but was filmed in the USA. Hercules on the other hand was filmed in NZ, I remember seeing some scenes and they were shot not far away from where I live.
Israeli Officials are now not welcome in NZ (that was the impression I got from the PM). The Isreali president's visit in August has been rejected because of this.
The reason for the passport fraud is that "NZ passports create little or no suspision among authourities aropund the world".
 
AA777
Posts: 2358
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 7:07 am

RE: Israeli Agents Caught Seeking New Zealand Passport

Sat Jul 17, 2004 3:03 pm

Surprised? This is routine as BA mentioned earlier, there have even been spies in the Whitehouse but the media is forced to downplay it. Israel is no real friend to the U.S.

How much did we hear about this?

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=20705

And this:
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/DailyNews/2020_whitevan_020621.html

Oh, the places they'll go.....


-AA777
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: Israeli Agents Caught Seeking New Zealand Pass

Sat Jul 17, 2004 3:23 pm

Surprised? This is routine as BA mentioned earlier, there have even been spies in the Whitehouse but the media is forced to downplay it. Israel is no real friend to the U.S

Why do you hold Israel to some special standard? Every major country in the world has spies operating worldwide. The US has spies in Israel; Israel has spies in the US. The French have spies in England; The Cubans have spies in Miami. You think we should go to war over a routine matter...?

And about the Israel being no real friend to the US, keep dreaming. They are one of our best friends in the world; how else do you explain the huge cultural, economic, military, science, and financial ties between Israel and the US?

I'm sure you would love for the US to hate Israel; I suggest moving to France or Saudi Arabia AAtrip7.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
pacificjourney
Posts: 2659
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2001 9:12 pm

RE: Israeli Agents Caught Seeking New Zealand Passport

Sat Jul 17, 2004 3:28 pm

I've suggested you put your money where your very big mouth is and go to Isael and join it's beloved army many times rjp but you have no comment.

Israel is a friend only to Israel, the rest is just for conveniance it seems. NZ has no spies in Israel I can assure you, what do you have to say to that ?
" Help, help ... I'm being oppressed ... "
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: Israeli Agents Caught Seeking New Zealand Pass

Sat Jul 17, 2004 3:34 pm

I've suggested you put your money where your very big mouth is and go to Isael and join it's beloved army many times rjp but you have no comment.

Why in the Lord's name would I go join the Israeli Army?

Israel is a friend only to Israel, the rest is just for conveniance it seems. NZ has no spies in Israel I can assure you, what do you have to say to that ?

I love this double standard with Israel, with everything. Israel is their own country. Of course they will put their wellbeing ahead of that of other countries which support them. What would you care more about? Japan's wellbeing or Britain's wellbeing. It is only natural to care about your country first. But of course the rules don't apply to Israel.

And does NZ even have a spy agency? Is NZ surrounded by millions of Arabs who actively wish to destroy them? Didn't think so.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
pacificjourney
Posts: 2659
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2001 9:12 pm

RE: Israeli Agents Caught Seeking New Zealand Passport

Sat Jul 17, 2004 3:41 pm

Ah yes, the ends justify the means (be very careful with this justification as others can use it too).

One day Israel will run out of friends and it will no ones fault but their own !

You should be willing to risk something for something you believe so strongly in so surely you WANT to defend your beloved Israel from THEM. You should stop talking so much and just go ... shooting stone-throwers and driving bulldozers would be just your thing I think.
" Help, help ... I'm being oppressed ... "
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: Israeli Agents Caught Seeking New Zealand Pass

Sat Jul 17, 2004 3:51 pm

Ah yes, the ends justify the means (be very careful with this justification as others can use it too).

One day Israel will run out of friends and it will no ones fault but their own !

The United States of America will always stand by Israel. If there is ever a conflict between the two countries, it means that either the US or Israel lost their Democratic values that bond our two countries together and I don't see that happening in my lifetime.

And Israel doesn't have many friends in the world right now, as you may or may not know.....But they do have one best friend, the most powerful country in existence and that is all that matters.....Quite ironic really. In less than a century, Jews went from almost being exterminated to having a country that is best friends with the Roman Empire of the 21st Century.

You should be willing to risk something for something you believe so strongly in so surely you WANT to defend your beloved Israel from THEM. You should stop talking so much and just go ... shooting stone-throwers and driving bulldozers would be just your thing I think.

I'm not Israeli dear. If I wanted to kill our common enemies for fun, I'd join the US Army...
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
QANTASforever
Posts: 5794
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2001 6:03 am

RE: Israeli Agents Caught Seeking New Zealand Passport

Sat Jul 17, 2004 4:19 pm

Yyz717

NZ should recall its embassador and kick out the Israeli embassador. Also, NZ should consider breaking off diplomatic relations. This is not the first time Israel has done this.

Well, New Zealand has no embassy in Israel and Israel has no embassy in New Zealand. The NZ embassy in Ankara is accredited to Israel while the Israeli embassy in Canberra is accredited to New Zealand. Aside from cancelling a visit from the Israeli President I don't see how 'freezing relations' will make any difference at all. But I do agree that on principle a stand must be taken against these agent

Rjpieces -

The US has spies in Israel; Israel has spies in the US. The French have spies in England; The Cubans have spies in Miami. You think we should go to war over a routine matter...?

No they don't go to war with each other because the existence of spies does not make front page news. I'm sure spy agencies around the world are aware of foreign operatives in their own country, but perhaps in the interests of keeping the peace - (in public anyway) governments turn a blind eye.

If there is seen to be a major security violation at the hands of a foreign operative (as was seen in New Zealand) governments are compelled to act by media and public pressure.

And does NZ even have a spy agency? Is NZ surrounded by millions of Arabs who actively wish to destroy them? Didn't think so.

Yes, NZ does have a spy agency. Here is the website http://www.nzsis.govt.nz/.

QFF




Fighting for the glory of the Australian Republic.
 
ushermittwoch
Posts: 2530
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 10:18 pm

RE: Israeli Agents Caught Seeking New Zealand Pass

Sat Jul 17, 2004 4:59 pm

Phx, where did I claim that no other country spies?
Correct, nowhere.

And your country did not use the information to benefit science but to get your armed forces and space program a big boost. Hardly benefitting all, eh?

But I guess ignoring facts makes it easier to believe in the myth of the "great American" achievements of "Americans" like Wernher von Braun or Otto Hahn...
Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
Leskova
Posts: 5547
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:39 pm

RE: Israeli Agents Caught Seeking New Zealand Passport

Sat Jul 17, 2004 6:37 pm

So Israeli spies have been caught trying to obtain NZ passports... must be a slow newsday...

They've done it before, they'll do it again - and I'm sure they'll really be running scared now that they're not welcome in NZ anymore... Insane

Practically every country spies on it's enemies and allies: some of the listening equipment that France and the US had along the former West Germany/GDR-Border was actually not aimed towards the east (as most would have expected), but at the west... surprise, surprise: we've had spies in this country for decades and probably always will...

Just as every other country on this planet.

And once in a while, some spies will be caught - some diplomatic feathers will be ruffled, some speeches are held, some press releases are printed - and when all that has died down, the day-to-day work of the secret services of this world continues as if nothing had happened.

Regards,
Frank
Smile - it confuses people!
 
ly7e7
Posts: 2222
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 3:15 am

RE: Israeli Agents Caught Seeking New Zealand Passport

Sat Jul 17, 2004 6:49 pm

I serioulsy doubt that Israel has espionage interests in NZ. There are two possible explanations for what had happened : either they were trying to follow some terror lead in NZ (i.e terrorists finding refuge in NZ) or more likely all they wanted were a couple of NZ passports for use outside NZ.
2 things are endless: ignorance and space
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Israeli Agents Caught Seeking New Zealand Passport

Sat Jul 17, 2004 6:56 pm

If memory serves Israel got in a simular row with Canada, over some it's agents trying to obtain Canadian passports.

LY7E7 is quite correct, more likely trying to get them as cover for other operations, rather then spying on NZ.

It is a bit hard to get in any Arab country on an Israeli passport  Wink/being sarcastic
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Horus
Posts: 5131
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 1:04 am

RE: Israeli Agents Caught Seeking New Zealand Passport

Sat Jul 17, 2004 7:19 pm

No sweat.

We'll just deny everything and then remind everyone of the holocaust and then get the US to bail us out.

We can screw over whom ever we like cause the US government has our balls hanging on their chin !

signed Israel



Pacificjourney, that is so true. It's the same routine every time.
EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
Guest

RE: Israeli Agents Caught Seeking New Zealand Passport

Sat Jul 17, 2004 8:35 pm

Horus, why don't you suggest to a.net to set up a brand new forum: Abuse Israel. You and your soul mates could post your ignorant hatred quite happily and freely all day, without ever having to worry about minor things such as reasoned debate or facts. It would certainly clear the non-av forum for those who can post a viewpoint without red mist descending at the very mention of the word 'Israel'.

As for the Israelis being caught in NZ: really shoddy, amateurish intelligence work, that's all - which highlights that mossad are nowhere near as good as their reputation. And why be in NZ in the first place? well, since Ahmed Zaoui was caught there with what looked like a 'casing' video, it is natural to assume that Al Qaeda has, or is planning, operations in NZ or from NZ. And why should Israel spy on Canada? Well, since there is a huge question mark over many of the inhabitants/immigrants of Quebec (and links to Al Qaeda), that makes sense too. and so on, and so on.

What the Israelis should have done, of course, is went to SAfrica first. Once there, they, like anybody else, could have obtained a genuine SAfrican passport for about a US$200 bribe. Now THAT'S an issue.
 
Horus
Posts: 5131
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 1:04 am

RE: Israeli Agents Caught Seeking New Zealand Passport

Sat Jul 17, 2004 9:35 pm

Delayedagain, first of all we are all free to express our views. second i am simply stating what has been an on-going for the last 56 years from deviance and lies and third why do you keep quiet when the roles are reversed? why the hypocrisy MATE!
EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
BA
Posts: 10133
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: Israeli Agents Caught Seeking New Zealand Passport

Sat Jul 17, 2004 9:50 pm

Delayedagain,

Have you heard of something called freedom of speech and the right for one to express their opinions?

Sad to see how there are people who want to censor anything that is critical of Israel....especially when they come from westernized democratic nations such as the UK which stand for freedom of speech, freedom of opinion, and freedom of expression......
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
Guest

RE: Israeli Agents Caught Seeking New Zealand Passport

Sat Jul 17, 2004 11:05 pm

Just where exactly do I say you're not allowed to speak?? I in fact suggested you have an anti Israel forum where you can vent your splen merrily to your heart's content. I don't want to censor anyone being critical of Israel, South Africa (where I'm from), or the UK (whose nationality I shall soon adopt).

but in a fairly innocuous thread about agents being caught red-handed trying to obtain NZ passports, it seems disingenuous to act appalled at their nerve. It happens, there are reasons why it happens and the Israelis aren't the only ones doing it; they do so purely out of national self-preservation (do you really think they were there to try to do sabotage or de-stabilise NZ, c'mon). While agents of terror pass around the world on forged or illegally obtained passports, the security services of the western democratic civilised world have the moral authority to use covert means to track and stop the same. Don't cry foul play when they caught doing so; don't turn it into an anti-israel rant when they do so.

and Horus : why do you keep quiet when the roles are reversed?
What?
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Israeli Agents Caught Seeking New Zealand Passport

Sat Jul 17, 2004 11:27 pm

Re: The United States of America will always stand by Israel

You hope ! It can't last forever, especially at the rate Israel and the Palestinians are both pissing away what little goodwill there previously was for either side. All it will take is one serious miscalculation by Israel, one mis-aimed missile or one bulldozer too far, and it could all change. The only reason there is any goodwill for Israel at all in the west, is because the Palestinians don't have any at all, thanks to Arafat knocking back the peace deal with Ehud Barak.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
AA777
Posts: 2358
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 7:07 am

RE: Israeli Agents Caught Seeking New Zealand Passport

Sat Jul 17, 2004 11:46 pm

The United States of America will always stand by Israel. If there is ever a conflict between the two countries, it means that either the US or Israel lost their Democratic values...

The U.S. will not always stand by Israel. One day, they will see all the crap that Israel is causing in the world, and the U.S. will do something about it. I do believe that when this happens, it will be what everyone refers to as the apocalypse....end of the world...etc. If you think Israel has any reservations about using Nukes against us, the United States, I think you better think again. That government is a dirty, and unloyal government at that. The U.S. will regret all its years of mistreatment of arab nations one of these days. In that I have (unfortunate) confidence.

What I love most is Israel comparing themselves to the U.S., so they can gain support from the American people. "Oh, we are just like you, trying to fight terrorism"... They fight terrorism by perpetuating it... tell me how that works!? If that isnt counterintuitive I dont know what is.  Wow!  Wow!

-AA777
 
Horus
Posts: 5131
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 1:04 am

RE: Israeli Agents Caught Seeking New Zealand Passport

Sat Jul 17, 2004 11:53 pm

thanks to Arafat knocking back the peace deal with Ehud Barak.



JGPH1A, here are a few 'little' facts about the Camp David agreement in 2002:

Nitinyahu was felt to have not delivered by the Israeli public and Ehud Barak of the Labour party who pledged to end the conflict within a year was elected.


However, Barak has a strange idea of how peace was to be achieved. In one of his earliest speeches he outlined his master plan with the four 'NOs!',

1. No concession on the West Bank and Gaza (Israel will to continue the illegal occupation).

2. Jerusalem is the undivided capital of Israel (Palestinians were to give up all claim to Al-Aqsa and Jerusalem).

3. No dismantling of the illegal jewish settlements.

4. No army West of the River Jordan (so even if there is a Palestinian state, Israel would tell it whether it can have an army or not).


This threw all peace plans out. As the illegal settlements remained, the occupation continued. In fact, not only did they remain, they continously expanded.


In 1990, there were 70.000 illegal settlers and by 2002 the number rocketted to 250,000 illegal settlers.


The support comes from the government of Israel itsefl, with 28% of the Ministry of Trade and Industry's budget used to house the illegal settlers.



Now the so-called 'generous' Camp David 2002

The timeline of the 1999 Sharm El Sheikh Memorandum called for the final status negotiations to be completed by September 13, 2003. This led President Clinton's invitation to Barak and Arafat for a summit at Camp David to be convened on July 11th 2000.


The West Bank and Gaza are only 22% of pre-1948 Palestine.


When the Palestinian Authority signed Oslo they accepted only 22% and recognised Israel within the green line borders conceding 78% of historic Palestine.



Barak, felt this was not enough and demanded:

1. 78 illegal settlements to be included in this area, where 85% of the illegal settlers live. These illegal settlements disrupt Palestinian life in the West Bank and Gaza.

2. Territories will be under 'temporary Israeli control'. This meant that Palestinian land remains under Israeli military and civil control for an indefinite time.

3. Palestinians to accept Israeli supervision of border crossings and other restrictions on land, at sea and in the air.


This was Israel's most 'generous' offer. Camp David offered Palestinians 46% of 22% of historical Palestine.


Furthermore, this proposal required Palestinians to give up any claim to occupy Jerusalem and would have forced recognition of Israel's annexation of all of east Jerusalem which includes Al-Aqsa.


Knowing the real truth and reading the 'small prints' to such agreements, is vital. Unfortunately many people are gullable enough to believe anything in the media. The Palestinians want peace, but not at any price, it has to be fair and just one.


Horus
EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
ly7e7
Posts: 2222
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 3:15 am

RE: Israeli Agents Caught Seeking New Zealand Passport

Sun Jul 18, 2004 12:21 am

In fact US was not always supportive for Israel. Our previous partners (well, they still are , in a way) were France and UK. Actually I can't really blame France for being supportive for Arabs. After all they have an 8 million Arab population in the country. I am curious, when will they get their representation in the french democracy? A population of this size deserves its own high-ranking minister, if not PM or President.
2 things are endless: ignorance and space
 
Horus
Posts: 5131
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 1:04 am

RE: Israeli Agents Caught Seeking New Zealand Passport

Sun Jul 18, 2004 12:37 am

LY7E7, many of the Arabs in France are from North African origin who have lived there for many years and are well integrated into French society. And yes they are represented in the French government, but seeing how the population of France is around 70 million (mostly Christians) then I don't see why a Muslim (still a minority) will become a PM/President there. So there are nearly 6 million Jews in the US, does that mean the next President has to be jewish? Do you see my point?
EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
ly7e7
Posts: 2222
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 3:15 am

RE: Israeli Agents Caught Seeking New Zealand Passport

Sun Jul 18, 2004 12:50 am

Horus:

I do see your point. In fact, my post was rather ironical.
Regarding Jews in the US - Joe Lieberman went as far as to become a VP nominate. (He would become a VP if the actual american people were those to decide).
I disagree with you about how well Arabs are integrated in France (or Norway, UK and others for the same sake). Ask Le Pen voters.
2 things are endless: ignorance and space

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: luckyone, WIederling and 16 guests