OD720
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Noah's Ark, Will It Be Found?

Tue Jul 20, 2004 4:20 pm

Armenian news agencies are reporting that two expeditions are on their way to Mount Ararat (Agri Dagh in Turkish) hoping to find the Noah's Ark.

Here are few quotes I read yesterday:

A Russian expedition left last Saturday for the upper reaches of Mount Ararat where organizers hope to prove an object nestled amid the snow and ice is Noah's Ark.

Also another, joint U.S.-Turkish team of 10 explorers plans to make the arduous trek up the mountain this summer to enter what they believe to be a mammoth structure some 45 feet high, 75 feet wide and up to 450 feet long that was exposed in part by last summer's heat wave in Europe.


In February of this year, temperatures rose at least 10 degrees celcius above the average for that period of year, causing major floods in Armenia and along the Turkish-Armenian border where Mount Ararat is located. This meltdown gave hope to explorers since such climate condition has never been recorded in the past few hundred years.

Explorers have long searched for an ark on the high slopes of Mount Ararat, where the biblical account of the Great Flood places it.

Armenians have many myths and legends telling that an Armenian saint failing to clibe the mountain on several attempts, have been given a piece of the Ark by angels as a sign from God.

At present, the Armenian church in Etchmiadzin displays a wooden icon saying that it comes from the Ark and relates it to the story above.

It will be interesting to see of they'll find anything.


[Edited 2004-07-20 09:21:35]

[Edited 2004-07-20 09:22:25]
 
airmale
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RE: Noah's Ark, Will It Be Found?

Tue Jul 20, 2004 4:27 pm

Thats odd, I thought it had been discovered years ago infact I saw a picture of the Ark on the net some four years back, it had blended into the mountain but you could make ity it was a vessel, did anyone else see that picture?
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MxCtrlr
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RE: Noah's Ark, Will It Be Found?

Tue Jul 20, 2004 4:30 pm

Airmale,

I remember seeing that picture too but have not been able to find it recently. I'll look again.

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DeltaGuy
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RE: Noah's Ark, Will It Be Found?

Tue Jul 20, 2004 4:42 pm

Yes, I think they can find it...providing the weather holds out.

The US has many photos of it, just collecting dust, taken from our spy sattelites...reason they won't be shared is so that we don't show the world exactly how good our sattelites are...but I've seen some decent resolution shots before, fully convincing me that there IS something there. The Air Farce probably has every angle on it you could possibly want.

With all the ice and cold climate, an ark would be preserved very well, even over the thousands of years since the Biblical account...politics, and the obvious location of Ararat have kept explorers out, but I hope these teams can unveil the mystery surrounding Noah's Ark...if so, I think it'll give some more awesome, physical proof to the Judeo-Christian beliefs.

DeltaGuy

[Edited 2004-07-20 09:43:50]
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MxCtrlr
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RE: Noah's Ark, Will It Be Found?

Tue Jul 20, 2004 5:00 pm

http://www.pilgrimpromo.com/WAR/

This was what I could find on a fast "Dogpile" search. There seems to be quite a bit of evidence of the remains of a large structure, similar to that of a ship. There are several pictures of "Anchor Stones" and petrified wood that is definitely not from the region around Mt. Ararat.

I am not vouching for the validity of the website, its content, its message or whether what they found there is truly Noah's Ark but it is quite interesting.

MxCtrlr  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
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BN747
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RE: Noah's Ark, Will It Be Found?

Tue Jul 20, 2004 5:00 pm

Noah's Ark, Will It Be Found?

NO.

Because it didn't happen and it wasn't built. Will they find a really big boat? If they look hard enough they may find a few. But as quoted in a recent article even Jewish rabbis and religious scholars are admitting Noah and Moses are no more than parables.

BN747

[Edited 2004-07-20 10:19:32]
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
airmale
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RE: Noah's Ark, Will It Be Found?

Tue Jul 20, 2004 5:02 pm

The picture I saw was crystal clear too perhaps it leaked out, it was like seeing it standing from a another mountain right across.
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zak
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RE: Noah's Ark, Will It Be Found?

Tue Jul 20, 2004 5:11 pm

i can only agree with BN747.
as we all know it doesnt matter what the truth is since the religious nuts will spin whatever found in such a way that it suits their story.
it is always the same old story with religion, people who want to believe in something will keep looking for evidence to support their "faith" while ignoring everything that speaks against it, hence proving the truth of their(and often emphasized only their own) faith.
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OD720
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RE: Noah's Ark, Will It Be Found?

Tue Jul 20, 2004 5:17 pm

BN747: That is what most interesting. I myself don't believe that Noah was able to collect every known species but he may have been the one who survived the flood with his boat resting on Mt Ararat.

I believe in the flood, it's not that it couldn't have happened. There's a good version of it in The Epic Of Gilgamesh.

Airmale and MxCtrlr: It has nor been found yet. But this year's sattelite pictures give hope.
 
BN747
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RE: Noah's Ark, Will It Be Found?

Tue Jul 20, 2004 5:26 pm

There's a good version of it in The Epic Of Gilgamesh.

OD720, certainly there were floods back then.. big ones and small ones. But during the days of Gilgamesh.. just how big do you think they (inhabitants of the day) believed the 'whole world' was? Back then, the 'whole world probably consist of a land mass the size of Kentucky. 5 or 6 close-knit villages wiped out in a flashflood... equaled the world being destroyed! A lot like a comet being sighted .. was a harbinger that the end of the world was near.


BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
OD720
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RE: Noah's Ark, Will It Be Found?

Tue Jul 20, 2004 5:37 pm

BN747, I'm not disagreeing with you and I really don't believe that the flood covered the whole planet. Since they didn't have sattelite images then (I know that was too extreme  Smile , they thought that the whole world flooded.

I'm not a religious person so I don't take whatever The Bible tells us as the truth beyond doubt. I'm saying though that a major flood must have hit the Middle East and parts of historic Armenia.
 
707CMF
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RE: Noah's Ark, Will It Be Found?

Tue Jul 20, 2004 6:01 pm

BN747,

Although Noah and the flood can easily be ragarded - and dismissed as parables, it is more than likely the flood did occur.

A lot of cultures on Earth have a similar event in their mythology.
There is also a sediment layer all over Earth that can be approximately dated back to that era - very coherent with the theory of a flood.

Plus, you also dismiss Moses as a parable. Like it or not, be Jewish/Christian or not, Moses is not only a religious figure, it is also a historical character, as much as Jesus was. The history of ancient Egypt is very well known, and refers to Moses as much as the Bible (though not on the same light, of course  Wink/being sarcastic )

Cheers,

707
 
airmale
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RE: Noah's Ark, Will It Be Found?

Tue Jul 20, 2004 6:02 pm

Many parts of the world were under the sea and shells can be found on high mountains all over the world, maybe it did happen.

By the way what makes some people here unbelievers? I'm curious to know. Is it that you just dont believe in religion or are you total atheists?
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OD720
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RE: Noah's Ark, Will It Be Found?

Tue Jul 20, 2004 6:09 pm

Airmale:

I know part of your question addresses me too. I'm not an atheist, not at all. I'm more of a science person.

We are our own Gods, we control our good doeings and the bad ones too. Blaming the devil or satan doesn't work for me.
 
Klaus
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RE: Noah's Ark, Will It Be Found?

Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:04 pm

Maritime sediments in the mountains are many million or even several billion years old. They´ve got nothing to do with a recent "flood" but have in fact been folded upwards when the mountains were formed in the first place.

By the way, wasn´t there a recent report that the "boat" formation was simply the result of natural processes and not man-made in any way?
 
BN747
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RE: Noah's Ark, Will It Be Found?

Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:09 pm

The history of ancient Egypt is very well known, and refers to Moses as much as the Bible (though not on the same light, of course)

Exactly what Egyptian writings are you refering to? No Egyptian writings recall any Pharoah losing his army in chase of Moses. The Jews were never enslaved in Egypt. They didn't build the Pyramids or anything else. This is all known fact today. A historical figure lends creedence than such person was infact real. There's no proof that Jesus was what the bible says it was. There probably was a guy named Jesus running around proselytzing... but writings of Jesus weren't put to pen and paper (or scroll) until approx. 40-50 years after his supposed death. Here's where accuracy gets called into question... imagine a guy writes about the 2000 (US) Election, 9/11, Bush & Iraq in the year 2055. Just how accurate is he going to be vs someone writing about it today (and we still are getting half-assed bits of information .. which = we'll never really know the truth! But just like we are arguing about it today, future generations will dispute the cause and effects of the same issues. Back then (0 BC) entrophy virtually destroyed any grains of truth to any event. Illiteracy was ubiquitous, life spans were shorter and imagination was welcome entertainment from cruel and harsh day-to-day realities. And there's no doubt that two merged consistently and constantly. They had 'slow news' days back then too.

As for some of us (unbelievers).. OD720 says it best.. scaring is with the Boogie man or " Blaming the devil or satan" doesn't work for me either... it did when I was a kid and didn't know any better.. but that's crap I would never fu*k a kid's mind with these days. Life is hard enough as it is.. there's no need to compound it with crap about 'someone's watching you' and you'll burn in hell if you buy Jesus.

Religion has done a great deal of good but that's overshadowed by the harm it's caused. Religions' track record has been at odds with information and advancement from day 1. Today, it feigns enbracing new found information and discoveries while trying to bridge it's past.. but if the Vatican and many other religious leaders truly had their way.. this (the internet) and many other forms of information and dissemination of such would be unplugged in a heart beat (not to mention what they'd do people who think 'outside the box'! They prefer you to dumb/ignorant and dependent upon them for guidance. but hey.. if it gets you thru the day more power to ya'

Re: The global sediment-dating of past floods... it appears Klaus has put that issue to bed better than I could.


BN747
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ZKSUJ
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RE: Noah's Ark, Will It Be Found?

Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:14 pm

It's already been discovered, I saw a doco on it a couple of years ago, on discovery channel. It was the ark for sure, it had animal compartments and everything, it even had a flat bow, kind of like a floating box more that a boat  Big grin
 
airmale
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RE: Noah's Ark, Will It Be Found?

Tue Jul 20, 2004 9:30 pm

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables." II Timothy 4:3-4.

Sounds like its referring to some people here.
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SlamClick
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RE: Noah's Ark, Will It Be Found?

Tue Jul 20, 2004 11:24 pm

Sorry Airmale but I am having a bit of trouble with "sound doctrine" and "truth."

You see, my airline uniform is made of a wool-linen blend and this being forbidden in Leviticus 19:19 and all. . .

Also, the airline requires that I keep my hair neatly trimmed and absolutely forbids the wearing of a beard because the oxygen mask will not form a seal. This is in violation of Lev. 19:27

Big problem is, though, that Sunday is a big day on our flight schedule and we cannot drop trips on a weekend, even though Exodus 35:2 is pretty clear on the subject: "Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death."

Surely you can see my problem. Don't want to just cherry-pick the parts I want to obey.
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L.1011
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RE: Noah's Ark, Will It Be Found?

Tue Jul 20, 2004 11:44 pm

I believe that God and Jesus exist. However, I think the Old Testament is a lot of bull. Noah's Ark probably happened, there was probably a big flood. As someone already said, the '93 flood of the Mississippi could look to them, with poor transportation and communications, as "the whole world" However, how do we know who wrote any part of the Bible? For all we know, some pranking teenager made the whole thing up. And we're still getting pranked thousands of years later. And if it was authentic to begin with, look at all the translations of it. Try copying and posting this thread into and translate it to any language. Then, translate it back. How many times has that happened? How many times has someone changed it to their own liking? As far as I'm concerned, I believe the parts of Christianity that aren't superceded by science. Since we have actual scientific evidence of Jesus (hell some people want to clone him) I believe that. Genesis? No. As I said above, "The Great Flood" could have happened. Is it twisted, and do we have to take the details with a grain of salt? Yes.
 
SlamClick
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RE: Noah's Ark, Will It Be Found?

Wed Jul 21, 2004 12:57 am

Also kind of wondering how someone can argue that in the 40 days and 40 nights of rain (Genesis 7:12) and the 150 following days when the waters were upon the land (Genesis 7:24) that marine shellfish expanded their domain right on up to the top of the mountains and managed to leave a sediment layer that is, in places, hundreds of feet deep. All in just over six months in water of very low salinity.

Puzzled too how the Ark was 30 cubits high (Genesis 6:15) and that the floodwaters rose up only 15 cubits (Genesis 7:20) but still managed to cover the mountains. There is more detail: The Ark was three decks deep (Genesis 6:16) so we know that the floodwaters rose about a story and a half, or about one tenth the length of the Ark.

Sure wish there was some mention of how carbon dioxide-absorbing, sunlight-needing plants survived six months under saltwater.

I mention these things because it is obvious that some of the wording is either metaphorical or sloppily translated. I am not an atheist. I don't even propose to amend Genesis 1:1 to read :"In the beginning there was a big bang." I just believe that good would be served better if we'd try to understand the intent of our religions and stop trying to enforce the literal. If your faith cannot withstand the failure to find the Ark, you need more faith. You really need it because it is not likely to be found.


Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
BN747
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RE: Noah's Ark, Will It Be Found?

Wed Jul 21, 2004 4:50 am

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables." II Timothy 4:3-4.

Sounds like its referring to some people here.


Sure does, Airmale.. and you sound like a perfect candidate for what P.T. Barnum coined as " There's a sucker born every minute" Today it's every nano-second.

It's not too late to learn to think for yourself dude. It won't hurt.....much.

BN747
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DeltaGuy
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RE: Noah's Ark, Will It Be Found?

Wed Jul 21, 2004 5:12 am

I just believe that good would be served better if we'd try to understand the intent of our religions and stop trying to enforce the literal. If your faith cannot withstand the failure to find the Ark, you need more faith. You really need it because it is not likely to be found.

Right on SlamClick...

I'm a born-again Christian myself, but I do believe that you can't take the Bible 110% literally...like in Matthew, where Jesus says to gouge out your eye if you look lustfully at a woman..imagine if we all did that, no men in the world would have eyeballs. People can't go around taking everything literally...that's being legalistic. I believe what I believe because of immense faith, and enough assurance in the content of the Bible to know that what I'm believing is true..just depends on how you read it sometimes.

I do hope they find it, it'd solve an age-old question.

DeltaGuy
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JGPH1A
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RE: Noah's Ark, Will It Be Found?

Wed Jul 21, 2004 5:20 am

Isn't there a theory that the Flood was actually the inundation of what is now the Black Sea caused by the Mediterranean breaching a narrow isthmus at the Dardanelles and flooding the low lying area behind it ? I saw a documentary on TV about it a while back, it seemed they had some pretty compelling archaeological and anthropological evidence.

I doubt very much that Noah's Ark is on top of Mt. Ararat, but there probably was some kind of flood.
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mdsh00
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RE: Noah's Ark, Will It Be Found?

Wed Jul 21, 2004 7:47 am

What interests me is that there is no real mention of the dinosaurs in Noah's Ark. And if you were to consider EVERY species around, you would need a HUGE HUGE HUGE boat to fit them all in. Did they ever take into account, a virus spreading among the animals and killing many of them? It doesn't make a lot of sense.
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SSTjumbo
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RE: Noah's Ark, Will It Be Found?

Wed Jul 21, 2004 8:15 am

What interests me is that there is no real mention of the dinosaurs in Noah's Ark. And if you were to consider EVERY species around, you would need a HUGE HUGE HUGE boat to fit them all in.


Church going Catholic here, so I'm not an aethist.


That said, I have theories, but I can definately conclude with scientists that dinosaurs were long extinct before the presence of modern lifeforms on Earth. Though I believe the stories of creation have become metaphoric in nature over the years, the first story of creation states that Earth began its existence as a barren, dark, dry wasteland. Somehow I think this was the state of the Earth after the impact on the Yucatan Penninsula that wiped out most life on Earth. The skies were likely clouded with debris, all the oceans were frozen over, and it's impossible to call ice wet unless there's liquid water present on its surface, and obviously Earth would be a mostly barren wasteland except for bacteria, cockroaches, and the early crocs in such a state. That's my theory, but I too believe that you can't take everything in the bible literally at face value.
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ScarletHarlot
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RE: Noah's Ark, Will It Be Found?

Wed Jul 21, 2004 9:56 am

But that was when I ruled the world
 
POSITIVE RATE
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Noah's Ark

Wed Jul 21, 2004 10:40 am

"What interests me is that there is no real mention of the dinosaurs in Noah's Ark. And if you were to consider EVERY species around, you would need a HUGE HUGE HUGE boat to fit them all in."

Dinosaurs? They died out 65 million years ago. The flood supposedly happened "only" a few thousand years ago so the dinosaurs were gone waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay before Noah's time. Heck there weren't even people on the Earth when there were dinosaurs.


 
mdsh00
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RE: Noah's Ark, Will It Be Found?

Wed Jul 21, 2004 11:24 am

True, but if the Bible said that the world was created in 7 days, including humans, there should be SOME overlap by that theory. Meaning that there would be accounts of "large beasts." It also should be pointed out that there are many traditionalists that strictly take Genesis word for word and do believe there were dinosaurs on the Ark. Take a look at this site (some interesting and ridiculous people):

http://www.answersingenesis.org/

And

http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2001/dinos_on_ark.asp
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
 
MxCtrlr
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RE: Noah's Ark, Will It Be Found?

Wed Jul 21, 2004 1:03 pm

While my views on organized religion are absolutely no secret (for those few who don't know, I abhor organized religions as garbage propogated to keep people "in tow" while allowing the "churches" to be in control) but I have a problem with people taking the Bible literally. Obviously Earth was not created in 6 days (because, "...on the 7th day, He rested...") and a great flood did not cover the entire Earth either. I takes a real idiot to believe the Bible 100%.

What I do find amusing is atheists blasting "believers" for believing the Bible 100%, but then interpreting Bible passages literally to defend their point. Pick a side and stay on it, guys & gals.

MxCtrlr  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
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vafi88
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RE: Noah's Ark, Will It Be Found?

Wed Jul 21, 2004 1:17 pm

For all we know, some pranking teenager made the whole thing up. And we're still getting pranked thousands of years later.

Funny, that's the way I feel about religion.
I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
 
airmale
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RE: Noah's Ark, Will It Be Found?

Wed Jul 21, 2004 6:52 pm

BN747 Perhaps you're blind to whats happening around you, that those verses are thousands of years old and predicted the future as it is today says something for them, I dont personally believe the Quran can be taken literally, but there's definite truth in that and the Bible in whatever way but its there.
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MxCtrlr
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RE: Noah's Ark, Will It Be Found?

Wed Jul 21, 2004 7:56 pm

Airmale,

REALLY read the underlying messages/themes in the Bible, Quran, and the religious texts of the Hindu, Bhuddist and virtually any other mainstream world religion...THEY ARE ALL THE SAME - Take care of each other; Be good to each other, etc. It is man's interpretation of those messages that cause all of the problems, not the messages themselves.

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iakobos
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RE: Noah's Ark, Will It Be Found?

Wed Jul 21, 2004 8:01 pm

Airmale
Perhaps blind people like to be told what they could see.
The verses are not thousand of years old, and the "translations" for our usage even less.
 
jwenting
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RE: Noah's Ark, Will It Be Found?

Thu Jul 22, 2004 2:44 am

they'll never find it because it doesn't exist and never existed.
that's not to say they won't find something and proclaim it to be Noah's Ark which will then lead to decades of religious and scientific fighting because the location and/or age are not in accordance with someone's ideas.
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airplay
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RE: Noah's Ark, Will It Be Found?

Thu Jul 22, 2004 3:17 am

If they find Noah's Ark, they will probably find Jimmy Hoffa and Elvis near by. Or perhaps the "real" landing site of the Apollo moon missions...

 
BN747
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RE: Noah's Ark, Will It Be Found?

Thu Jul 22, 2004 5:12 am

BN747 Perhaps you're blind to whats happening around you, that those verses are thousands of years old and predicted the future as it is today says something for them, I dont personally believe the Quran can be taken literally, but there's definite truth in that and the Bible in whatever way but its there

Airmale, come off what ever you're smoking... I've seen all those 'predictions' and they are so vague it's insulting as spinmeisters try to inject their own interpretations as to their meanings. How hard can it be to predict there's going to be wars,death & destruction in the future? That's about as much of a no-brainer back then as it is to make the same predition today! Spare the effort in trying spook me with that crap.. humankind has inflected greater horror on it's own kind (and not to mention other living species) than anything the bible can conjure up.

It's quite evident you're blind to the fact that you've been taken in by a bunch of fairy tales and nonsense. And as you grow older it must feel more frustrating to realize that you've spent so many years investing in something than in the end... doesn't really mean anything. It's disturbing the number of older people who sit around waiting for 'the rapture' or Armaggedon to occur just so they can say 'see.. I was right!' Even the apostle Paul knew that was imminent. I'm afraid you're going to be one of those just as disappointed as he was...when it didn't happen.

MxCtrlr is correct, the message in those books about love,respect your fellow man is pretty much it. But if look harder, you'll see that there were other cultures (worldwide) already realizing that fact. They (without biblical/Quran/Torah teachings) figured out (like certain animal species) that they can accomplish and and advance themselves better as a cohesive unit than going it alone. That means a basic level of respect must be established and in order to maintain existance... and by working together, greater good can be achieved. They figured all this out... on their own.


BN747
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RE: Noah's Ark, Will It Be Found?

Thu Jul 22, 2004 5:47 am

It's not too late to learn to think for yourself dude. It won't hurt.....much.

BN, get over yourself. Isn't it possible that someone can think for themselves AND disagree with your point of view at the same time?

Or are people only thinking when their beliefs coincide with yours?  Insane
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
BN747
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RE: Noah's Ark, Will It Be Found?

Thu Jul 22, 2004 6:56 am

EA AS CO: BN, get over yourself.

NO.

BN747


"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson

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