galaxy5
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Race Fans Spit On Lance Armstrong

Thu Jul 22, 2004 8:29 am

Lance was spat upon by tour DeFrance race fans today during the 15.k km time trial today. Shame on whom ever did that. Show some respect.

http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackageArticle.jhtml?type=sportsNews&storyID=551318§ion=news

(and for those of you who are hyper sensitve to Anti French sentiment, notice i didn't say "french race fans". I'll let you deduce what nationality you think spat on him)
"damn, I didnt know prince could Ball like that" - Charlie Murphy
 
Greg
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RE: Race Fans Spit On Lance Armstrong

Thu Jul 22, 2004 8:30 am

Well, if they were Greek, it would mean good luck.
 
WellHung
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RE: Race Fans Spit On Lance Armstrong

Thu Jul 22, 2004 8:32 am

Note that this wasn't the first time he was spit on by fans this tour.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-tour18jul18,1,129854.story?coll=la-home-sports

Armstrong was spit on Friday and booed Saturday by some orange-clad Basque fans who seemed angry that their homebred hero, Iban Mayo, tried to quit the race halfway up the mountain in Stage 13 Saturday.

Don't know the breakdown between Spanish/French spitters though.
 
777236ER
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RE: Race Fans Spit On Lance Armstrong

Thu Jul 22, 2004 8:52 am

(and for those of you who are hyper sensitve to Anti French sentiment, notice i didn't say "french race fans". I'll let you deduce what nationality you think spat on him)

Uh.

Armstrong described the stage as a "bad idea" and hit out at some German fans.

Your bone's got a little machine
 
galaxy5
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RE: Race Fans Spit On Lance Armstrong

Thu Jul 22, 2004 8:57 am

Uh.

Armstrong described the stage as a "bad idea" and hit out at some German fans.


im not sure if they mean he "hit" fans or if its a term used by brits to mean something else. I think if Lance punched or hit some race fans it would be better explained as such. So i don't think what your trying to imply is the case.

"damn, I didnt know prince could Ball like that" - Charlie Murphy
 
chrisdigo
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RE: Race Fans Spit On Lance Armstrong

Thu Jul 22, 2004 8:58 am

Galaxy5: The point is SOME french bike fans

(From the other thread)  Wink/being sarcastic
 
777236ER
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RE: Race Fans Spit On Lance Armstrong

Thu Jul 22, 2004 8:58 am

He clearly didn't hit them (  Insane ) - he verbally hit out at them, implying it was Germans who spat on him, not the French.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
aloges
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RE: Race Fans Spit On Lance Armstrong

Thu Jul 22, 2004 9:01 am

Nothing was said if Armstrong "hit out at" (What's that supposed to mean?) those fans because they spat on him or because they were getting in his way or because they were doing something else to annoy him.

It's only sports, I don't get why people get so worked up about it. Lance Armstrong is so going to win his 6th TDF, some people must be dying from envy - especially since Ullrich still talks like he's got great chances to turn this thing around and win.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
galaxy5
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RE: Race Fans Spit On Lance Armstrong

Thu Jul 22, 2004 9:03 am

Ok, since i have never heard the Term "hit out at them" used i wasn't sure of what it meant or what context it was used in. So it means that he pointed out that the people who spat on him were germans than?
"damn, I didnt know prince could Ball like that" - Charlie Murphy
 
777236ER
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RE: Race Fans Spit On Lance Armstrong

Thu Jul 22, 2004 9:07 am

He critisised German fans. Read into that what you will.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
aloges
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RE: Race Fans Spit On Lance Armstrong

Thu Jul 22, 2004 9:12 am

Don't know more about the spitting incident, but here's another nice one:

Jens Voigt, a German cyclist from the CSC team, has been booed, vilified and even called "Judas" by German fans - apparently, the reporters of ARD (one of the two main public TV stations broadcasting the TDF alternately) had put him down for something concerning Jan Ullrich, and while Voigt was naming those reporters today in an interview on ZDF (the other station), they simply blanked the interview out. Nice.  Yeah sure

I think the Ullrich-mania is going way over the top this time. People, accept it - Lance Armstrong lives for the Tour de France, and his drugs (a.k.a. doping) seem to be better than Ullrich's.

[Edited 2004-07-22 02:13:50]
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
JeffM
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RE: Race Fans Spit On Lance Armstrong

Thu Jul 22, 2004 9:40 am

That's O.k....

Lance is making the rest of the biking world LOOK like shit.



Again....
 
N6376M
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RE: Race Fans Spit On Lance Armstrong

Thu Jul 22, 2004 10:01 am

Given the lead he's starting to build, I wouldn't be surprised if the next time he gets spit on, he gets off his bike and kick the ass of the pussy who spit on him.

Though most Europeans really respect Lance and what he's going to accomplish, there are a small minority that can't stand the fact that an American has dominate this event for 6 years straight.

I was actually in Paris (by sheer co-incidence) four years ago at the conclusion of the Tour. We were stuck in traffic coming from the airport to our hotel when the driver told us what the cause was. We got out and saw him race by (by the way, watching cycling in person is sort of a boring sport). Everyone was going nuts. It was a neat moment.

-76M
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Race Fans Spit On Lance Armstrong

Thu Jul 22, 2004 10:49 am

People, accept it - Lance Armstrong lives for the Tour de France, and his drugs (a.k.a. doping) seem to be better than Ullrich's.

So since one man is consistently better at this sport than anyone else in the world, he just has to be using performance-enhancing drugs, right?

I see.  Insane

"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
L.1011
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RE: Race Fans Spit On Lance Armstrong

Thu Jul 22, 2004 12:16 pm

Dc10guy,

That was absolutely pathetic and uncalled for. You need mental help, and not because it's an anti-Bush comment.

As to Lance and these spitting fans,

There are always wackos out there. I won't take some crazy nationalist anti-Americans who HATE the fact the fact that an AMERICAN, with the UNITED STATES Postal Service team, has been kicking everyone's ass in the Tour de FRANCE for six years as a reflection on all of Europe. Most Europeans have a great respect for Armstrong which I admire, these are just some bad apples on a good tree.
 
dvk
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RE: Race Fans Spit On Lance Armstrong

Thu Jul 22, 2004 12:28 pm

Whenever an athlete or team has dominated a sport as Lance has, there is always a substantial contingent of people wanting to see the champ dethroned. Unfortunately, some of the people in that group don't have the class or mental stability to be good sports themselves. It's another unfortunate aspect of human nature, and manifests itself in ways ranging from the simply annoying to dangerous and life-threatening. Think of Monica Seles. She was number 1 in the world, and poised to stay there for several more years. The only person who could beat her was Steffi Graf, and then only at Wimbledon. Fortunately, Monica survived being stabbed by a psycho, but the psycho also accomplished his goal of eliminating Monica and returning Steffi to the virtually unchallenged number 1 position for three more years. Irrationality among sports fans is frightening, and I don't blame anyone at the top of the game for having an entourage to protect him/her, or for criticizing those who cross the line.
I'm not dumb. I just have a command of thoroughly useless information.
 
Andreas
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RE: Race Fans Spit On Lance Armstrong

Thu Jul 22, 2004 4:02 pm

For all those sick morons on this Forum who think they need to make an US vs. Europe thing out of about any topic there is (you know who you are):

Have any of you actually SEEN the race yesterday?? NO! You didn't, except maybe some 15 second newsclips.

I heard that crap from Armstrong and I was flabbergasted!!! He rode up to Alpe d'Huez and he was CELEBRATED by the GERMANS...he rode through a sea of black-red-yellow flags...well, if he doesn't like it or it makes him shit his pants, well that's too bad for him, but this was one of the most touching sights on this tour, knowing that their own was good but not good enough, subsequently cheering the one that was better.

Fairness and grandeur in defeat is a concept completely unknown to Mr. Armstrong obviously, who believes those Eurowhiners are just there to hurt him. DISGUSTING!! So go get your frigging maillot jaune and get the fu#@ back home and stay there if you see but bad guys over here!!


And THAT is what really happened yesterday!!
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iakobos
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RE: Race Fans Spit On Lance Armstrong

Thu Jul 22, 2004 6:42 pm

So since one man is consistently better at this sport than anyone else in the world, he just has to be using performance-enhancing drugs, right?

EA CO AS you definitely cannot avoid throwing your hyperbole.
LA is not better at this sport, he is the best in the TDF, which is one stage race in a season that lasts 8 months. He dominates the TDF, nothing else.
And, take it from me, there are all, without any exception, using performance-enhancing drugs. For your information, some of these are accepted, some are not, some can be detected, some cannot.

Though most Europeans really respect Lance and what he's going to accomplish, there are a small minority that can't stand the fact that an American has dominate this event for 6 years straight

N6376m did you see the race ? do you know what (some of) these people on the side of the road are doing since the day before, in the sunshine and thin air ?
I find it particularly irresponsible from the TDF director to stage such an event, knowing for certain that something wrong will happen, be it by overenthusiastic fans, uncautious bystanders, drunken lads, angry husbands,..., of all nationalities combined.

Greg
Spitting for Greeks means warding off bad spell
 
ushermittwoch
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RE: Race Fans Spit On Lance Armstrong

Thu Jul 22, 2004 7:12 pm

Interesting CO:
"The 33-year-old Armstrong, an icon to millions of people around the world since recovering from cancer in 1998, continues to strenuously deny that he has ever taken performance enhancing drugs.
But at the Tour de France in 1999 he failed a test for the corticosteroid triamcinolone - a banned substance which is found in some medicines and creams - although cycling's ruling body the UCI did not sanction him for the offence."

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1152992/posts
Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
aloges
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RE: Race Fans Spit On Lance Armstrong

Thu Jul 22, 2004 7:16 pm

"People, accept it - Lance Armstrong lives for the Tour de France, and his drugs (a.k.a. doping) seem to be better than Ullrich's.

So since one man is consistently better at this sport than anyone else in the world, he just has to be using performance-enhancing drugs, right?

I see.  Insane "


Care to read what I wrote? I'll explain it since you don't seem to understand: "his drugs (a.k.a. doping) seem to be better than Ullrich's" means that the person who writes this believes that both Lance Armstrong and Jan Ullrich use performance-enhancing drugs - like everyone else in the Tour de France. But as long as you can attack one of those pesky Eurowhiners, it doesn't matter what he actually said, does it?  Insane back at you.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
canoecarrier
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RE: Race Fans Spit On Lance Armstrong

Thu Jul 22, 2004 7:47 pm

Have any of you actually SEEN the race yesterday??

Yes, and every stage since the start.

he was CELEBRATED by the GERMANS

Didn't look like it from the way they acted, and the things they wrote on the road. You are the ones making this a US vs. Europe thread. Again, you are nieve to think that anyone who lives thru one of the most agressive cancer treatments could win the TDF on anything other than athletic ability.

I agree that the TDF organizers made an error scheduling the TT on L'Alpe, and that the fans of US Postal, CSC, T-Mobile, etc. acted stupidly. However, LA has done nothing but increase interest in cycling since he started riding the TDF.
The beatings will continue until morale improves
 
aloges
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RE: Race Fans Spit On Lance Armstrong

Thu Jul 22, 2004 7:52 pm

"However, LA has done nothing but increase interest in cycling since he started riding the TDF."

Applies to the US, mostly - I don't think interest in cycling needed to be increased that much in Europe, we've been "blessed" with live footage from every freaking stage for much longer than Armstrong has been around.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
ushermittwoch
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RE: Race Fans Spit On Lance Armstrong

Thu Jul 22, 2004 7:59 pm

I couldn't help it but yesterday I had to LAUGH OUT LOUD, when I read "Epo-Lance" on the street. Couldn't have put it any better...
Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
fraT
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RE: Race Fans Spit On Lance Armstrong

Thu Jul 22, 2004 8:25 pm

"Lance Armstrong is so going to win his 6th TDF, some people must be dying from envy - especially since Ullrich still talks like he's got great chances to turn this thing around and win."

Aloges,

I don't know where you got this statement from. Since the Pyreneas Ullrich stated everytime he was asked that it seems very difficult to beat Armstrong but he won't give up. After the first stage in the Alps he used the word unbeatable in every interview.

Again, maybe it was translated in a misunderstanding way but it's not true at all.
 
NUAir
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RE: Race Fans Spit On Lance Armstrong

Thu Jul 22, 2004 9:32 pm

Since Usher and Aloges are incapable of reading the 2 other threads that have already been posted on Armstrong and doping (LA Chronicles and Tour De France Decided) and discussed to death I guess again we have to go over the 1999 UCI decision...

While traces of the corticosteroid triamcinolone, a banned substance found in some medicines and creams, were found in his urine during the 1999 Tour, the UCI did not sanction Armstrong in the matter, saying that he had used the cream Cemalyt to treat a skin allergy, and that it had been given a copy of the prescription for the cream. "The UCI declares with the utmost firmness that this was an authorized usage, and does not constitute a case of doping,"

The traces that were found were on his crotch because of seat burn. I haven't heard of any cream that is considered a doping agent (by the way most bikers still use tramcinolone to treat seat rash)! I guess that would be an advantage as he wouldn't feel as uncomfortable, but an organization that bans inhalers for asthmatics isn't going to be lenient on a publicly known case of supposed drug use.

To this date Lance has never been convicted of using any doping drugs (inside or outside of his body) and he has been the most frequently tested athlete in all of sports.

...and if you don't believe me try the following

My roommate in college was a dual physical therapy/pharmacy major and I asked him the question about how corticosteroid triamcinolone used in a cream could help performance.

This is what the med books say about it:

Strong corticosteroids (Active ingredients: alcolometasone, betamethasone, fluorometholone, methylprednisolone, mometasone, prednisolone, triamcinolone) are used topically to treat severe skin rashes, such as atopic dermatitis, contact dermatitis and psoriasis, and for some cases of swollen mucous membranes, such as with severe hayfever (see rhinitis). Corticosteroids may also be supplied in combinations with an antibacterial or antifungal agent to treat both the infection and inflammation associated with the infection.

Avoid the use of topical immunosuppressant corticosteroids (Active ingredients: betamethasone, methylprednisolone, prednisolone, triamcinolone) on the face. Use under medical supervision for application over joints, under arms and in groin region.

Use topical strong corticosteroids (Active ingredients: alcolometasone, betamethasone, fluorometholone, methylprednisolone, mometasone, prednisolone, triamcinolone) under medical supervision for application to the face, underarms or in groin regions.

So what my friend advises you to do is to go out to a doctor or even a pharmacist (as you can buy many products containing this over the counter) and cover your body with the cream and then see how it improves your athletic performance. Keep in mind that if you don't remove the cream before putting on your work out clothes (not even mentioning tight bike shorts and shirts) it burns and can make your skin super irritated, causing bleeding.

Now I guess what Zak and other opponents of Armstrong are saying is that he put the cream on before one stage of the 1999 tour (keep in mind this was after a rainy stage in which most of the riders were experiencing severe skin rashes)...and I'm not really sure of this but I guess it helped to relieve his itch before the stage or did it help him get that burning sensation that caused so much pain that he wanted to finish the race even faster so he could take the cream off? According to the rule book causing an intentional burning sensation in your crotch is not considered a performance inhancer.

So the next logical thing for anyone convinced that Armstrong is doping is to take the testimony of his former masseuse who was paid a 5 digit sum and all of the sudden came up with accusations (at the same time this book was published) that she never thought to mention before, that Lance was involved in a weird garbage request in which she was asked to throw a bag containing what she thought were needles (but as this was a couple years ago she cant remember the details).

Lets not even get started on Greg, who himself admits that he was misquoted in the LA Chronicles book.

The point is that book is trash and not only is it poorly written but it contains multiple inaccuracies and misquotes. Just because it's written doesn't make it true.

INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY!!
"How Many Assholes we got on this ship?" - Lord Helmet
 
aloges
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RE: Race Fans Spit On Lance Armstrong

Fri Jul 23, 2004 12:21 am

"Again, maybe it was translated in a misunderstanding way but it's not true at all."

I re-read my post, and yes I should have worded it differently. I meant to say that some German fans are probably mad at Lance Armstrong for "again not giving Ullrich a chance" or whatever; basically mad because their hero Jan Ullrich is most likely not going to win. I didn't aim that "envy" comment at Ullrich, although it sounded like that.

"Since Usher and Aloges are incapable of reading the 2 other threads that have already been posted on Armstrong and doping (LA Chronicles and Tour De France Decided) and discussed to death I guess again we have to go over the 1999 UCI decision..."

Rest assured, you don't. I just can't be bothered enough by cycling to read those two other threads about it. I just dislike the fact that some people are apparently going nuts over the Tour de France, and I firmly believe that all cyclists are using one or the other - not necessarily prohibited - drug to enhance their performance.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
racko
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RE: Race Fans Spit On Lance Armstrong

Fri Jul 23, 2004 12:30 am

He's not really trying to improve his images, is he?
 
zak
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RE: Race Fans Spit On Lance Armstrong

Fri Jul 23, 2004 12:31 am

"Now I guess what Zak and other opponents of Armstrong are saying is that he put the cream on before one stage of the 1999 tour (keep in mind this was after a rainy stage in which most of the riders were experiencing severe skin rashes)...and I'm not really sure of this but I guess it helped to relieve his itch before the stage or did it help him get that burning sensation that caused so much pain that he wanted to finish the race even faster so he could take the cream off?"


no, what i clearly said is that the UCI has played it down by stating it was from cream to protect an even bigger scandal then the tour de doping the years before. lance brings in tons of ad money from the u.s., a source of money previously not existing for the UCI etc. they did not want to have this market go bust because it would not exist without lance, hence they made up the usual seating cream excuse. most former armstrong employees talk about how they were using illegal substances, especially epo. keep in mind that the dr. ferrari from italy, who went bust with his epo expertise with another team in 1999, has become lances' training advisor. armstrong says he is only giving him ideas how to improve his performance, but in the rest of the sports world dr ferrari is only called dr. epo. i guess it is just a coincidence that lance has been most dominant and untouchable since he has been under mr. ferraris supervision.
10=2
 
Greg
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RE: Race Fans Spit On Lance Armstrong

Fri Jul 23, 2004 12:44 am

lakobos...yes, you are absolutely correct--I was being a smartass.

But warding off the bad luck...can also be interpreted as wishing good luck...
 
aloges
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RE: Race Fans Spit On Lance Armstrong

Fri Jul 23, 2004 1:22 am

"He's not really trying to improve his images, is he?"

Huh? Who isn't?
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
NUAir
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RE: Race Fans Spit On Lance Armstrong

Fri Jul 23, 2004 1:35 am

no, what I clearly said is that the UCI has played it down by stating it was from cream to protect an even bigger scandal then the tour de doping the years before.

- It was a prescription cream that most riders have, including many competitive riders (and rowers) here in the US, I'm still waiting for some evidence on how it helps boost performance. Armstrong presented his prescription before use as is required by the UCI.

lance brings in tons of ad money from the u.s., a source of money previously not existing for the UCI etc. they did not want to have this market go bust because it would not exist without lance, hence they made up the usual seating cream excuse.

- again its not an excuse its a prescription, your jumping to some pretty strong conclusions and don't forget that if the UCI is doing all these doping cover ups, as you claim, its kind of strange that they keep busting top riders and have made all of Lance's urine and blood samples available to doctors to test.

most former Armstrong employees talk about how they were using illegal substances, especially epo.

- most?? The only person I have heard say anything is the former masseuse and even she cant testify that Lance ever did any doping. What other employees have claimed Lance is using epo?

keep in mind that the dr. ferrari from italy, who went bust with his epo expertise with another team in 1999, has become lances' training advisor.

-Ferrari, despite the EPO scandal is still one of the most well respected trainers in cycling. Lance has never gone to him for any medical advice just strategy pointers on how to improve his team riding on mountain stages...which seems to have paid off very well

armstrong says he is only giving him ideas how to improve his performance, but in the rest of the sports world dr ferrari is only called dr. epo. I guess it is just a coincidence that lance has been most dominant and untouchable since he has been under mr. ferraris supervision.

- Lance is under Chris Carmichael (sp?) supervision who has never been connected to any illegal doping agents. I'm not sure how the press calling Ferrari, dr. epo has anything to do with his strategy advice given to Lance.

People who like to bring up baseless doping claims against Lance are usually the people who have no idea how hard he has worked to get where he is today. Lance does have a huge advantage in that his body died during his cancer treatment and when he came back to cycling he only built up the muscles he needed for biking while many of the other riders, including Ullrich, have a lot of unneccesray weight from muscles not needed for biking.

Second, he trains for the Tour more than any other rider and last year alone rode Alpe D'Huez 14 times!! Including one day when he did the mountain 4 times!

Third, he loves technology and nutrition and has some of top scientists and nutritionists working for him. This means that he builds up on the carbs and vitamins he needs for racing and spends days in wind tunnels improving his performance and aerodynamics which if you have ever been on a bike are essential, and can help reduce work by up to 40%.

Fourth, he has an awesome team designed to help him win the tour. He surrounds himself with great climbers, sprinters and time trialists who are able to stick with him throughout the race so he can suck on their wheels and sprint off during the last 5-10 km's to place high in the rankings.

Fifth, despite what has been said on this thread, Lance ranks in the top 10 riders for stage race points, not including the Tour de France, he works very hard in the off season and competes in just as many races as other top competitors, however he does avoid the other grand tours in Italy and Spain.
"How Many Assholes we got on this ship?" - Lord Helmet
 
iakobos
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RE: Race Fans Spit On Lance Armstrong

Fri Jul 23, 2004 5:00 am

NUair
everybody understands you are a fan, that's fine.
If you wish to keep your enthusisam for that sport, you better forget about the performance-enhancing issue. Since all of them play by the same rules (or approximately) there is no sporting issue, only ethics.

Do not expect a pro rider to spill the beans, why should he ? it invariably would mean the immediate end of his sporting career and perhaps worse he would be regarded by most as a plague-stricken talker.

If you think that muscle building is a factor of performance in cycling, I am afraid there is a confusion with other sports. Find pics of Federico Bahamontes, Lucien Van Impe, Charly Gaul, Jacques Anquetil,....sure you will understand.
The essential factor is the capacity of the body to transform quickly the oxygen. This is where a good "doctor" intervenes.

Lance in the top 10 for stage points (excl. the TdF) ??
 
canoecarrier
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RE: Race Fans Spit On Lance Armstrong

Fri Jul 23, 2004 7:49 am

Applies to the US, mostly - I don't think interest in cycling needed to be increased that much in Europe, we've been "blessed" with live footage from every freaking stage for much longer than Armstrong has been around.

I agree LA has likely done little to advance cycling in Europe, however in the US he's taken a sport that had little following and made it news.

I do see that all the LA bashers love to throw the "how could he win without Epo?" around. Apparently, your beloved Ullrich can finish 1st once and 2nd five times without it. Had Armstrong not been around, it's likely Ellrich would have won 6 TDF's, would you blame him for taking Epo then?

They are all amazing athletes, why can't you just enjoy the sport and admire their dedication?
The beatings will continue until morale improves
 
iakobos
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RE: Race Fans Spit On Lance Armstrong

Fri Jul 23, 2004 7:59 am

You forget Greg Lemond, that's when US media started getting an interest.

Nobody is really clean in this sport, not even at amateur level.
It is not "he does" and "he does not", as I said they all play by the same rules.
 
aloges
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RE: Race Fans Spit On Lance Armstrong

Fri Jul 23, 2004 8:11 am

"I do see that all the LA bashers love to throw the "how could he win without Epo?" around. Apparently, your beloved Ullrich can finish 1st once and 2nd five times without it. Had Armstrong not been around, it's likely Ellrich would have won 6 TDF's, would you blame him for taking Epo then?"

My point is "How could anyone even do it without p-e drugs?" I'm not saying "Epo-Lance" or anything like that, I just think nobody, no matter how hard the training, would be able to do thousands of torturing kilometres without using a little "medical aid" here and there. I don't even say they're using illegal substances - probably, there are many things that doping investigators have never even heard of.

"They are all amazing athletes, why can't you just enjoy the sport and admire their dedication?"

I don't enjoy the sport because I don't care much about it, and I don't admire dedication that equals self-abandonment. Call me weird or lazy or whatever, but I don't think anything is worth dedicating all my life to it. An important part, yes, many hours a day, yes, many days a month, yes, but not everything. Of course, that's up to everyone himself, but I don't admire Lance Armstrong's total dedication to the Tour de France.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
chrisdigo
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RE: Race Fans Spit On Lance Armstrong

Fri Jul 23, 2004 8:48 am

Iakobos: You forget Greg Lemond

Greg Lemond was the first American to won the Tour de France and yet, everybody seemed to forget about him!
 
EMBQA
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RE: Race Fans Spit On Lance Armstrong

Fri Jul 23, 2004 9:10 am

Anyone that can assume Lance is 'doping' has never read or even opened their eyes to how Cancer changed his body. We sit here as say " How can this guy that was on his death bed 7 years ago come back to be so dominant in cycling and the Tour" Well, if you followed Lance in his days before Cancer as I did he was MUCH larger and bulkier rider. He weighed a lot more, he had the power, just not the skills and knowledge to be what he is today. After Cancer he came back leaner, thinner and as he said himself "determined to win, as after my battles with cancer, there is no pain or nothing I can't beat". It's called drive and fortitude. During testing when he 16 and was still a Junior Rider, his VOC Output was the LOWEST EVER Recorded..!! That is how your body transfers O2 to the muscles and is your pain tolerance level. In basic terms, his body process O2 better then most and his latic acid tolerance level is lower then most.

He's been tested and tested and tested. What have they found..? NOTHING but the discruntled French Press.

Good luck Lance on the next 3 days and bring home the YELLOW.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
canoecarrier
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RE: Race Fans Spit On Lance Armstrong

Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:45 am

My point is "How could anyone even do it without p-e drugs?" I'm not saying "Epo-Lance" or anything like that, I just think nobody, no matter how hard the training, would be able to do thousands of torturing kilometres without using a little "medical aid" here and there.

I actually think the tour is much less difficult than it was when it started. The first TDF riders had to carry everything on their back, had no gears at all, the race was run on gravel or dirt roads, and the stages were longer. So, I do believe the tour could be done without P-E drugs.

The media and public forgot LeMonde quickly when Armstrong began winning the TDF. Which would explain why he has recently put his foot in his mouth when talking about LA. Most people here think he's very jealous.
The beatings will continue until morale improves
 
NUAir
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RE: Race Fans Spit On Lance Armstrong

Fri Jul 23, 2004 9:33 pm

Iakobos,

- I'm sorry but I am at the amateur level here in DC racing for DC Velo and I don't recal ever taking any performance enhancing drugs, let alone any drugs or riding with anyone who has ever talked about taking drugs. But Ill be sure to send you a urine sample every day if you need further proof!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Do not expect a pro rider to spill the beans, why should he ?

- Drug test drug test drug test... He has never failed! Science does not have an doping agent that can't be detected in your blood stream becasue thats exactly what doping does, it increases the oxygen to your blood. Lance has been tested within minutes of completing every tour stage this year and guess what they have found nothing! I again invite you to present the sporting world with your incredible wonder drug that can't be detected by blood or urine test because believe me you will be a millionaire. I'm also wondering if this miracle drug exists and Lance trains at the US olympic facility in Colorado why hasnt he or his trainers shared this wonder drug with all the athletes who recently got busted for the olympics in Athens?

Lance in the top 10 for stage points (excl. the TdF) ??

-sorry thats UCI race points
"How Many Assholes we got on this ship?" - Lord Helmet
 
NUAir
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RE: Race Fans Spit On Lance Armstrong

Fri Jul 23, 2004 9:37 pm

BTW,

Getting back to the topic of this post...

That was another great win by Lance yesterday but I have to say Kloden has been working hard out there and it iwll be interesting to see if Ullrich can catch up to his teamate for a podium finish.

Rumor has it that Levi has been offered a contract with the Discovery Channel Team (the replacement for US Postal sponsorship) and that he is very interested in the offer. That would be a huge setback for Rabobank but should give Rasmussen a well deserved chance to lead the team.
"How Many Assholes we got on this ship?" - Lord Helmet
 
iakobos
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RE: Race Fans Spit On Lance Armstrong

Sat Jul 24, 2004 1:27 am

NUair,

I dont want to deprive you of your illusions. Stay clean and enjoy, perfect.

The traditional "cycling" nations France, Belgium, Netherlands, Switzerland, Italy and Spain have not been able to produce a single "all round" champion for many years now.
There is no lack of interest or enthusiasm, no lack of young riders, no lack of races and good organizers, no lack of money.
What is missing then ? think about it for a second or two.

Ever heard about East German champions, that country had arguably the highest number of champions per capita in the world. They were tested as well, and not much came out of it. Think about it.

I do not say LA is not a champion, he is. IMO he is the most professional rider the world has seen so far, and what he achieves, together with his teammates, manager, doctor, physio, mechanics, etc....is already engraved in the long history of the sport.

Drug test: you should know that labs have to look at something in particular.
It is not like: you bring a sample, they put it in a machine and a red light might blink indicating the presence of something not on the list of authorized drugs. When they do not know what to look for they will obviously never detect it. Right ?
It happens that research is always a step ahead of regulations and two steps ahead of their implementations, not the other way round. Right ?

Besides "known drugs" there are also other and much more sophisticated method to increase performance beyond the level your own body could do. That's called pushing the limits. And this does not show up on a drug test.

I can also tell you that I have been intimately connected with riders and I practiced myself.
If you like the sport, stop arguing and simply enjoy it.




 
galaxy5
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RE: Race Fans Spit On Lance Armstrong

Sat Jul 24, 2004 1:32 am

So then, your assuming that just because he is such a champion he has to be doing drugs? That's an awful big assumption, wouldn't you say?
"damn, I didnt know prince could Ball like that" - Charlie Murphy
 
iakobos
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RE: Race Fans Spit On Lance Armstrong

Sat Jul 24, 2004 4:00 am

Galaxy5, see post #33.
I dare to say I know very very well what I am mentioning, they ALL play by the same rules (though not the officially published ones), but not with the same means.
It is not an assumption on my part. You are of course perfectly free to believe what you think is the truth.

I say it again, enjoy the sport or watching the sport and leave it at that.
 
Zweed
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RE: Race Fans Spit On Lance Armstrong

Sat Jul 24, 2004 7:08 am

Nice to see that a guy on heavy doping is able to win his 6th tour de france
 
NUAir
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RE: Race Fans Spit On Lance Armstrong

Sat Jul 24, 2004 7:36 am

Zweed,

You have nothing to back that statement up, maybe you are just upset that Leipheimer is going to leave Rabobank for the Discovery Channel Team??

Either way Zweed, Iakobos and maybe two or three other people in this world who still feel lance is doped based on no evidence are only hurting themselves as they are only putting in doubt their own credibility as they are more willing to put the testimony of a former masseuse who cant even varify that lance was using doping agents over that of over 50 doctors that have tested Lance's blood and Urine samples. And Iakobos they have frozen samples from the year he first won the tour, 5 years ago! Now if we cant detect doping agents now that were used 5 years ago and they are still secrets from the medical world I would love to know how and where they were developed? Maybe this is a huge secret conspiracy developed by the UCI, NRA and the US government because they want OLN to have better TV ratings!!
"How Many Assholes we got on this ship?" - Lord Helmet
 
iakobos
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RE: Race Fans Spit On Lance Armstrong

Sat Jul 24, 2004 9:31 am

NUair
There are excellent labs around, among them in California.
I know everything you tell me, but also more than that.

I have no problem with it, it is their life, their career, their income.
Sponsors are requesting visibility and a return on their investment, hundreds of pro riders are making a (generally good) living out of it, as well as thousands of people in the managerial, assistance, medical, paramedical, logistics, organizational, and last but not least the bikes and accessories manufacturers, and the local, regional, national and international federations.
Big money out of a few, you understand. The show goes on.

LA has proven (soon) seven times in a row that he is the best of them in the Tdf.
End of story (unless he does it 8).
 
canoecarrier
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RE: Race Fans Spit On Lance Armstrong

Sat Jul 24, 2004 3:07 pm

I stick by my comment that everyone is flaming LA, but no one is willing to throw one stone at Ullrich who's finished first once and second five times. Wouldn't your same assumptions be true for him? Had LA not been there and Ullrich conceivably won 6 TDF himself would we be having this conversation about him?
The beatings will continue until morale improves
 
ushermittwoch
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RE: Race Fans Spit On Lance Armstrong

Sat Jul 24, 2004 3:28 pm

Canoecarrier, if you'd READ the posts, you'd see that it's mentioned that ALL riders strech the rules...
Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
iakobos
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RE: Race Fans Spit On Lance Armstrong

Sat Jul 24, 2004 10:48 pm

Canoecarrier
Usher answered for me.

Notwithstanding, for me and quite a few others, s###t is s###t and smells the same whatever the flag (or party affiliation) one wants to put in it.
 
NUAir
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RE: Race Fans Spit On Lance Armstrong

Sun Jul 25, 2004 2:34 am

Another Stage win for Armstrong!!

This will be far and away his best tour performance and I hope Discovery will bring him back to the Tour next year for a possible 7th victory.

US Postal also took 3 minutes off of their deficit to T-Mobil for the team standings which I think T-Mobil is guarunteed to win at this point.

The sad thing of today's race is that Voekler lost the White jersey to Karpets :-(

I think before yesterday many saw him as the sure win for the white jersey. But I'll put money down that he will be the next french winner of the tour in 4-5 years. I think he also set the record in this tour for the most yellow jersey days for a young rider.

"How Many Assholes we got on this ship?" - Lord Helmet

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