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EA CO AS
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Mexican: Let Me In-my Fetus Is US Citizen

Wed Jul 28, 2004 10:43 am

Unbelievable.  Nuts

http://www.azcentral.com/families/articles/0727fetus-citizenship-ON.html

Pregnant woman wants re-entry to U.S., arguing fetus is citizen

Laura Wides
Associated Press
Jul. 27, 2004 01:20 PM


LOS ANGELES - A deported Mexican woman who is eight months pregnant is seeking to return to the United States to protect the unborn baby's health, arguing that under federal law the fetus is a viable human being and thus may be eligible for citizenship.


"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
Matt D
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RE: Mexican: Let Me In-my Fetus Is US Citizen

Wed Jul 28, 2004 10:49 am

Key word: DEPORTED

Meaning that she herself is illegal.

to return to the United States to protect the unborn baby's health

Yeah....at taxpayer expense.

Keep this moocher out of the country at all costs.



 
airplay
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RE: Mexican: Let Me In-my Fetus Is US Citizen

Wed Jul 28, 2004 10:56 am

Keep this moocher out of the country at all costs.

I agree. The father should be sent to Mexico to look after his kid.
 
mdsh00
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RE: Mexican: Let Me In-my Fetus Is US Citizen

Wed Jul 28, 2004 10:57 am

Ok I agree this is some bullshit, but an interesting point nonetheless.
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
 
Matt D
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RE: Mexican: Let Me In-my Fetus Is US Citizen

Wed Jul 28, 2004 11:01 am

The father should be sent to Mexico to look after his kid

Assuming she knows who the father is.
 
AC320
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RE: Mexican: Let Me In-my Fetus Is US Citizen

Wed Jul 28, 2004 11:05 am

I caught the flu here, does that mean they'll process my green card any faster?
fuddle duddle
 
Usairwys757
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RE: Mexican: Let Me In-my Fetus Is US Citizen

Wed Jul 28, 2004 11:06 am

This is MattD's dream thread. I'll just sit back and watch him blast the illegal Immigrants back to where they are from.  Big grin
Inactive.....
 
Arcano
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RE: Mexican: Let Me In-my Fetus Is US Citizen

Wed Jul 28, 2004 11:37 am

Come on guys, This unborn child could be the future President of the United States of America in 2044 and end up leading you all!

Can you picture it? "Yes, Mr. President Gonzalez"... I would laugh till the end of times!  Big thumbs up, the "Latino Revange"...
in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773, 380, 73G, 788, 789, 346
 
vafi88
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RE: Mexican: Let Me In-my Fetus Is US Citizen

Wed Jul 28, 2004 12:58 pm

Can you picture it? "Yes, Mr. President Gonzalez"... I would laugh till the end of times!

I won't be laughing... and there won't be a president Gonzales or Ricardo or Gomez for quite a while.
I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
 
flyboy36y
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RE: Mexican: Let Me In-my Fetus Is US Citizen

Wed Jul 28, 2004 1:00 pm

Aracno,

I don't see why the idea of a latino US President (born in the US, of course) is comical to you. It seems like something that could happen.
 
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scbriml
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RE: Mexican: Let Me In-my Fetus Is US Citizen

Wed Jul 28, 2004 1:11 pm

I don't see why the idea of a latino US President (born in the US, of course) is comical to you.

Just look at Vafi88's reply to see why it would be amusing! Big grin
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
kc7mmi
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RE: Mexican: Let Me In-my Fetus Is US Citizen

Wed Jul 28, 2004 1:21 pm

We don't need another descendant of an illegal immigrant here...they're usually misfits. Send her and her unborn child back to Mexico!
 
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yyz717
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RE: Mexican: Let Me In-my Fetus Is US Citizen

Wed Jul 28, 2004 2:12 pm

Come on guys, This unborn child could be the future President of the United States of America in 2044 and end up leading you all!

Or a future President of Mexico. Why deprive Mexico of such a child?

This law-breaking woman should not only be deported but also barred permanently from re-entry, even as a visitor. Illegal immigation is a crime.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
rojo
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RE: Mexican: Let Me In-my Fetus Is US Citizen

Wed Jul 28, 2004 8:01 pm

It is amazing that the attorney is claiming that she needs to be in the US because the baby is at risk:

Carrillo said Rubio, who was hospitalized with complications in her fifth month and has suffered severe stomach pains throughout her pregnancy, needs to be back in the United States because the baby is at risk.

As far as I know, we have very good hospitals in Mexico. The problem is that she would have to pay for them...

I can picture the future lawsuits in the US to get citizenship for babies:

I am a foreign national who conceived a baby on my honeymoon in Florida. Since it was conceived in the US, then you have to give him US citizenship...

Unfortunately, this is the reality of plenty of Mexicans who want to give birth in the USA. On our last flight from the USA to Mexico, my brother was talking to a pregnant girl who was deported because she was pregnant. When she got to immigration, she claimed to be a US citizen, but she only had a birth certificate. She claimed it was hers, but the immigration officer said that unless she had a drivers license, there is not way to prove it... She was angry but it was obvious that someone lent her the birth certificate. Obviously, AM had to pay for her flight and a penalty was imposed to AM.
 
JGPH1A
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RE: Mexican: Let Me In-my Fetus Is US Citizen

Wed Jul 28, 2004 8:43 pm

There is a certain twisted logic at work here. If as many people believe, an unborn foetus is a viable human being distinct from its mother, with rights that must be protected in law, this could be seen to imply that the foetus is in fact a citizen or whatever the latin legalese is for an individual with human rights, since human rights only accrue to a legally defined individual. If the foetus is a legally defined individual (let us use the term "citizen"), of which country is it a citizen, and to which country can it look for the protection of its rights ? Since it has not yet been born, it can't be it's country of birth. Is it a citizen of the country in which is was conceived ?

This raises interesting questions about the stage at which a foetus becomes biologically and legally distinct from its mother. If the foetus has rights, could the father of an unborn child insist that his unborn child not be taken out of the country, for instance, as is the case for children after they are born ?

Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
NUAir
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RE: Mexican: Let Me In-my Fetus Is US Citizen

Wed Jul 28, 2004 9:37 pm

I totally agree with JGPH,

I think this could be a large loophole if the US decides to ban abortions by treating the foetus as a citizen (which in a sense is what they would have to do to make a legal arguement for banning abortions and what they already did with late term abortions). So this will bring up the question of when is the foetus considered an individual.

So I think she is 100% right by US law. If the foetus was past the legal stage of abortion then the child has essentially become a US citizen. I'm glad to see Mexicans understand US laws better than most US policy makers  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

President Gonzalez 2056!!! I guess he would probably be a republican since they passed the bill that helped him become an American, so a good chance I wouldnt vote for him.
"How Many Assholes we got on this ship?" - Lord Helmet
 
N6376M
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RE: Mexican: Let Me In-my Fetus Is US Citizen

Wed Jul 28, 2004 11:06 pm

MattD's racism again shows its ugly head in Reply #4.

"The father should be sent to Mexico to look after his kid."

Assuming she knows who the father is.

It seems that in Matt's eyes all Hispanic women are whores who sleep around with anyone and everyone and have one night stands left and right.

Matt any argument you've ever made that you aren't a racist has now been clearly destroyed as your own words betray you.

I agree that she should be sent back, but presuming that she's promiscuous simply because she's Mexican has crossed the line.
 
jaysit
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RE: Mexican: Let Me In-my Fetus Is US Citizen

Thu Jul 29, 2004 12:28 am

"So I think she is 100% right by US law. If the foetus was past the legal stage of abortion then the child has essentially become a US citizen."

Interesting concept, but not necessarily true. For one the Courts can simply say that the protection of life concept in Roe v Wade is separate from citizenship rights, rights which only kick in upon birth, not conception.

Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Mexican: Let Me In-my Fetus Is US Citizen

Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:05 am

He's probably confusing them with the average american springbreaker college slut vacationing in CUN.

In all fairness, girls of ALL nationalities (yes, even Mexican) have been sluts when vacationing in CUN.

"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
N6376M
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RE: Mexican: Let Me In-my Fetus Is US Citizen

Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:27 am

EA CO AS -

That may be true but I never see MattD insinuating that all white american girls are sluts and might wonder who the father of their unborn children are.

Matt's a racist, pure and simple. If the A.net store sold a logo'd white hood, we know who would be first in line. The only question would be whether he'd buy it or secretly crave it but not be man enough to come out of the closet (so to speak) and admit that he's one of them.

-76M

[this is where KROC usually rushes to MattD's defense]
 
CPH-R
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RE: Mexican: Let Me In-my Fetus Is US Citizen

Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:34 am

Someone made a very good point on this issue over at Democraticunderground - I'll repost it here:

14th Amendment to the Constitution: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States..."

It means jack where the baby was concieved - it's where it's born that matters.
 
JGPH1A
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RE: Mexican: Let Me In-my Fetus Is US Citizen

Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:37 am

Re "...and subject to the jurisdiction thereof,..."

Since the foetus in question is "subject to the jurisdiction" of US laws re unborn protection etc, does this count ?
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
CPH-R
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RE: Mexican: Let Me In-my Fetus Is US Citizen

Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:40 am

Since the childs mother was born in Mexico (I assume she was), I don't see the point of your post, as the child haven't been born yet - and thus is not affected by the 14th ammendment.
 
JGPH1A
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RE: Mexican: Let Me In-my Fetus Is US Citizen

Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:41 am

But the whole point of the argument is that since the law recognises the foetus as being biologically and legally distinct from the mother, in terms of protection from late-term abortion, should this distinction not be recognised by other laws ?
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
ushermittwoch
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RE: Mexican: Let Me In-my Fetus Is US Citizen

Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:41 am

Funny how the neocons want to protect a fetus though that is just 1 second old...
Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
JOSEMEX
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RE: Mexican: Let Me In-my Fetus Is US Citizen

Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:46 am


>In all fairness, girls of ALL nationalities (yes, even Mexican) have been sluts when vacationing in CUN<

Well, yes of course! That's why I included the line "you see how it's awful to stereotype people"?
 
KROC
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RE: Mexican: Let Me In-my Fetus Is US Citizen

Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:59 am

[this is where KROC usually rushes to MattD's defense]

Check this - You can kiss my ass, because i do not run to defend Matt D at any time. Last time I checked, he was a big boy more than capable of handling his own issues. You just lack the common sense to see that I agree with much of Matt D's stance on ILLEGAL Aliens. I stayed out of this thread because 1.) I feel she should keep her own ass and her soon to be childs ass in Mexico unless they can come to America legally. Just because she spread her legs in America with her feet pointed towards the sky does not mean that me or any other tax payer should have to foot the bill for her baby. As for Matt D's comments, I left them alone on all accounts, because they can be taken either way. People like you will act the way are, and people that agree will act the way they will. I know you wanted to provoke me, and you did a bit, but sorry to disappoint you by not "coming to Matt D's defense", but you'll get over it.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Mexican: Let Me In-my Fetus Is US Citizen

Thu Jul 29, 2004 2:07 am

Just because she spread her legs in America with her feet pointed towards the sky does not mean that me or any other tax payer should have to foot the bill for her baby.

And THAT is really what this is all about. Everyone needs to stop their posturing about perceptions of racism and other bullshit - this is all about a woman who is pissed off that the INS deported her before she could hit the U.S. citizenship jackpot through her kid.

Good riddance.

[Edited 2004-07-28 19:08:21]
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
CPH-R
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RE: Mexican: Let Me In-my Fetus Is US Citizen

Thu Jul 29, 2004 2:25 am

JG,
once again, look at the text - the baby is not yet born and it most certainly haven't been naturalized, ie. the 14th ammendment doesn't cover it. If you want to debate when a fetus becomes a separate citizen (my opinion: at birth), then fine - but it won't have jack to do with this case.

[Edited 2004-07-28 19:26:35]
 
777236ER
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RE: Mexican: Let Me In-my Fetus Is US Citizen

Thu Jul 29, 2004 2:28 am

I love how foetuses are humans when the right-wing are against abortions, yet as soon as a Mexican claims exactly the same thing, she's told to fuck off.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
N6376M
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RE: Mexican: Let Me In-my Fetus Is US Citizen

Thu Jul 29, 2004 2:38 am

Let's see:

I write: [this is where KROC usually rushes to MattD's defense]

KROC write: Check this - You can kiss my ass, because i do not run to defend Matt D at any time.

Point proven.

KROC lurks in the shadows until someone says something mean about Matt and then he emerges to protect him - SuperKROC!!!!!
 
Goose
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RE: Mexican: Let Me In-my Fetus Is US Citizen

Thu Jul 29, 2004 2:50 am

This law-breaking woman should not only be deported but also barred permanently from re-entry, even as a visitor. Illegal immigation is a crime.

It is indeed a crime; but so is desertion of the military, YYZ717.

I find it interesting that you support the expulsion of this particular woman, yet support the two US Army deserters who have tried to claim refugee status in Canada.

If the child has a US father, then he's a US citizen - but not the mother, unless the father marries her. There's the rules. If she can prove the father through a DNA test, and if he is a citizen, then the kid will receive US citizenhip by default.
"Talk to me, Goose..."
 
N6376M
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RE: Mexican: Let Me In-my Fetus Is US Citizen

Thu Jul 29, 2004 2:54 am

Goose, I don't believe that you are correct. A child born abroad to two US citizens may register for citizenship through some sort of consular action, but a child born to parents of different nationalities, and born abroad is not usually entitled to US citizenship, though I do believe there are special rules when the parents are in the military.

-76M
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Mexican: Let Me In-my Fetus Is US Citizen

Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:00 am

I love how foetuses are humans when the right-wing are against abortions, yet as soon as a Mexican claims exactly the same thing, she's told to fuck off.

For the record, I'm pro-choice.

And I still want this woman to fuck off.  Big grin

"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
Goose
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RE: Mexican: Let Me In-my Fetus Is US Citizen

Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:27 am

Goose, I don't believe that you are correct. A child born abroad to two US citizens may register for citizenship through some sort of consular action, but a child born to parents of different nationalities, and born abroad is not usually entitled to US citizenship, though I do believe there are special rules when the parents are in the military.

Well, if the child has one parent who is a US citizen, then the child has a legal claim to citizenship. You're correct.

But mere conception of the child within the United States does not equal citizenship, I agree. If both the mother and father are illegals or do not hold a valid American citizenship, then the child is certainly not a US citizen merely because the act of conception was done on US soil.
"Talk to me, Goose..."
 
DLKAPA
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RE: Mexican: Let Me In-my Fetus Is US Citizen

Thu Jul 29, 2004 4:49 am

Ok Matt, I'll bite.

You seem like the kind of guy who is against abortion. Am I correct?

And I would assume your reasoning behind this is that the Fetus is a viable living human being.

Now on that matter, the reason this person wants to gain entry into the US is because it is a risky pregnancy. We all know that America has the finest hospitals in the world, and Mexico, well, doesn't.

Now pushing aside your blatantly racist remarks, the possibility of this child dying while in mexico due to improper facilities is much higher than the possibility of the child dying in America for the same reason. Still with me?

Now the kid is born in Mexico and dies soon thereafter because something goes wrong, while in America this could have been avoided.

No need for an abortion now, is there?

And don't say "She should have gone the legal way..." and all that Bullcrap, because it would take much longer than 9 months with all the beaurocratic red tape that surrounds a pregnant woman trying to enter the country.



And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Mexican: Let Me In-my Fetus Is US Citizen

Thu Jul 29, 2004 4:51 am

Ok Matt, I'll bite.

You seem like the kind of guy who is against abortion. Am I correct?


While I don't believe Matt needs defending, what led you to this conclusion?
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
DLKAPA
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RE: Mexican: Let Me In-my Fetus Is US Citizen

Thu Jul 29, 2004 4:53 am

Probably the thread after thread of him vehemently arguing against abortion.
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
North County
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RE: Mexican: Let Me In-my Fetus Is US Citizen

Thu Jul 29, 2004 6:48 am

Since when does abortion and citizenship become intertwined?

Citizenship = place of birth. (Except for those cases of those in the US military or both parents are citizens of the United States)

Not the place of conception.

The beginning of life does not factor into the citizenship laws of the United States.

Nice try though....I would give them an "A" for creativity but an "F" for how the case applies to US citizenship laws.
 
B747-437B
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RE: Mexican: Let Me In-my Fetus Is US Citizen

Thu Jul 29, 2004 7:13 am

This law-breaking woman should not only be deported but also barred permanently from re-entry, even as a visitor.

This law-breaking woman WAS already deported and hence subject to the standard 10-year mandatory ban on re-entry (in any capacity) imposed by Expedited Removal proceedings.

a child born to parents of different nationalities, and born abroad is not usually entitled to US citizenship

Any child of whom either parent is a US citizen at the time of their birth is entitled to US citizenship by birth, regardless of the place of birth or citizenship of the other parent.

And don't say "She should have gone the legal way..." and all that Bullcrap, because it would take much longer than 9 months with all the beaurocratic red tape that surrounds a pregnant woman trying to enter the country.

Actually, a pregnant woman who has had NO PRIOR IMMIGRATION VIOLATIONS would have very little problem obtaining a B-2 visa to deliver her child in the United States for a genuine and documented medical condition. The problem in this case was that the mother has prior history of multiple immigration violations (including both loss-of-status and illegal entry violations) that the law requires a mandatory 10-year ban on re-entry. She can petition to have a humanitarian waiver granted, which is an application currently pending before the BCIS.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
smithfly114
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RE: Mexican: Let Me In-my Fetus Is US Citizen

Thu Jul 29, 2004 8:00 am

We need to put up a wall along the entire border and keep everyone and everything out...End of story
 
DC10GUY
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RE: Mexican: Let Me In-my Fetus Is US Citizen

Thu Jul 29, 2004 8:28 am

Stupid Mexican ... Only white people are aloud in this great melting pot we call America .... Unless the lettuce and strawberries need picking of course.
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
smithfly114
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RE: Mexican: Let Me In-my Fetus Is US Citizen

Thu Jul 29, 2004 8:33 am

DC10 I assume you mean only those who enter through LEGAL means.......
 
DC10GUY
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RE: Mexican: Let Me In-my Fetus Is US Citizen

Thu Jul 29, 2004 8:38 am

Yes, Only white people with legal cash ...
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
North County
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RE: Mexican: Let Me In-my Fetus Is US Citizen

Thu Jul 29, 2004 8:39 am

DC10guy,

I welcome every legal immigrant from all over the globe.

Legal immigration has made this county great.

Future Legal immigration will build an even better America.

By the way, when did "legal immigrantion" become so politically incorrect?
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Mexican: Let Me In-my Fetus Is US Citizen

Thu Jul 29, 2004 8:43 am

By the way, when did "legal immigrantion" become so politically incorrect?

You mean you actually want to make them WAIT to legally enter the country? That's so MEAN! You horrible, evil person, you!  Insane
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
DC10GUY
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RE: Mexican: Let Me In-my Fetus Is US Citizen

Thu Jul 29, 2004 8:45 am

Legal immigration is another way of saying "we don't want you because your Mexican". Unless of course its time to pick the lettuce ....
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
smithfly114
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RE: Mexican: Let Me In-my Fetus Is US Citizen

Thu Jul 29, 2004 8:49 am

Good lord, DC10 you have some seriously polarized views. I know personally about 10 Mexicans who have immigrated through LEGAL means and they don't pick "lettuce"
 
North County
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RE: Mexican: Let Me In-my Fetus Is US Citizen

Thu Jul 29, 2004 8:59 am

Every country has is own immigration policy.

Mexico has immigration policies, so they are telling us Americans of any color that we are not wanted unless there is work to be done in their fields?

I can live with that and so do most American citizens.

Now DC10guy - time for you to call Michael Moore and send him south of the US border and do a movie called: "Vicente & Me"
 
B747-437B
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RE: Mexican: Let Me In-my Fetus Is US Citizen

Thu Jul 29, 2004 9:01 am

Legal immigration is another way of saying "we don't want you because your Mexican".

Yet a majority of legal immigrants are Mexicans.  Insane



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