notdownnlocked
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Help Me To Understand Mormons

Sat Aug 07, 2004 7:58 pm

Some threads running here now have finally gotten me to post a question I have had for a long time now. What I am wondering is this: What is the point of the Mormon religion besides making more babies and money for the church. I understand that those within this religion are required to give 10% of all they make during their careers to the church in order to stay in a "good standing". I also understand that these same people are asked or required to make as many babies as possible in their family so that when these children grow into their productive years they will also be required to give their 10% also. As what I have witnessed a couple will have anywhere from 5-7 children and each of these children will have their 5-7 children and so on and so forth. Eventually each family has the potential of their own population boom just as does an unneutered dog or cat does except we are talking about humans here and as each reaches a working age they are once again required to give their 10% to the church. I went to Salt Lake City and unknowingly attempted to walk into the great cathedral downtown but was turned away by guards because they told me I was not in good standing nor a "higher up" which by that I guessed I didn't give my 10% over my working career nor did I have my 7 kids as a potential 70% to give in the future. I understand it is illegal to have more than one wife but my guess is that also in those days past the idea was to have more wives and therefore more kids and more people required to give their 10% to the church in their earning and productive years hence more money to the Mormon church. Can somebody please explain this religion to me. I don't think I am standing in left field alone because I have witnessed this many many times and on average each family really does have 5-7 kids. Does the more kids you have get you to a higher plateau in the heirarchy in this religion?
 
JeffM
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RE: Help Me To Understand Mormons

Sat Aug 07, 2004 9:44 pm

http://www.lds.org/

In all my visits to Salt Lake City, I never miss the opportunity to enjoy Temple Square and talk with the Mormons. They are people with a religion, and live by it.
 
QIguy24
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RE: Help Me To Understand Mormons

Sat Aug 07, 2004 10:00 pm

I have been talking to a mormon girl on MSN once. She was from Nebraska and she was a mormon. They are even more religious than I thought. The religion means everything for them.

It's just like Jehovas Witnesses. They are als very faithful to their religion. They won't even accept a blood transfusion if they really need one. They rather die because the bibel says so.
 
JAL777
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RE: Help Me To Understand Mormons

Sat Aug 07, 2004 11:31 pm

I got into a fist fight with one on the Barcelona subway because he would not leave me alone.  Angry
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Help Me To Understand Mormons

Sat Aug 07, 2004 11:32 pm

I have Mormon missionaries living in an apartment next to mine. Nice guys, except they always start "hunting for my soul" within 5 minutes of talking to them. I kinda admire their dedication, paying for a mission out of their own pocket, but I don't think they get many followers here since we're very much a Godless country. Or at least there's a great reservation towards institutionalized church, that's for sure.
Living with a Prestbyterian family during my "Idaho year" I was told all the nasty things about them - like that LDS is a state within a state (much like the Catholic church), with its own trucking companies that prevent its drivers to be trade union members (father in that family was truck driver) and that they are a large shareholder in Coca-Cola (they always bought Pepsi  Wink/being sarcastic)
 
air2gxs
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RE: Help Me To Understand Mormons

Sun Aug 08, 2004 1:05 am

I have some really good friends in Louisville who are Mormons and don't have any issues with them. They have never attempted to "convert" my family or me. They don't have a large family (3 children). They are very close to their extended family and I've met several of them.

They are very pious. I attended the baptism of 1 of their children and have visited their temple before. A new one opened in Louisville a couple of years ago and an open house was held before it was sanctified. Outsiders were allowed to visit the entire structure instead of just the common areas. They (Mormons) seem to have an interesting view of the Christian faith.
 
Shawn Patrick
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RE: Help Me To Understand Mormons

Sun Aug 08, 2004 1:12 am

They've created their own, naive world, and they're quite happy to live in it and disregard those who are outside it. That's what I feel, anyways.
 
Jean Leloup
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RE: Help Me To Understand Mormons

Sun Aug 08, 2004 1:35 am

I won't comment on the religion as a whole, because as a very religious presbyterian myself, it's hard not to be unbiased. But I will make one point that came to mind reading the original post:

Having a lot of kids, and (especially) giving 10% of your money to the church, are absolutely not original mormon ideas. They are ancient jewish values/requirements, that have always been there in the judeo-christian tradition. The mormons just happen to stick to these old values in a way that other judeo-christian groups have not. (Actually, the catholic church does have the same emphasis on having kids.)

Regardless of whether I agree with a particular religion, as JeffM mentioned, I personally have a lot of respect for anyone who really sticks by their religion and are dedicated to it, not just when it's convenient. This seems to be the case with most mormons.
Next flight.... who knows.
 
desertjets
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RE: Help Me To Understand Mormons

Sun Aug 08, 2004 1:49 am

The Mormon church is pretty interesting. Having grown up in a community dominated by Mormons I have been able to gain some perspective on them.

In many ways they are a very closed group not too open to outsiders. But that is not universally true. There is a lot of stratification, call it classism, within the church. Basically poor Mormons and rich Mormons don't hang in the same circles.

One of the things that continues to amaze me, that despite the fact that their belief system is very conservative, they are very accepting in letting their members belief what they wish. One of my very dear friends is as about as liberal as they come, yet grew up in conservative Mormon Mesa, AZ.

In many ways the Mormons are not any more unique in their lives than any other major religious group. Go to any smallish town dominated by one church, let alone one faith, and you would feel like an outsider. They take care of themselves and there is certainly nothing wrong with that.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
 
Regis
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RE: Help Me To Understand Mormons

Sun Aug 08, 2004 2:54 am

The founder and CEO of JetBlue is a die hard Mormon. He was sent to Brazil as a missionary during his teenage years and speaks Portuguese fluently. He is extremely fond of his time in Brazil, absolutely loves the country and its people. It was little surprise to us Brazilians when he chose the EMB-190 "Jungle Jet" to support JetBlue's fleet expansion.
 
N6376M
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RE: Help Me To Understand Mormons

Sun Aug 08, 2004 5:09 am

Full disclosure - I'm Catholic.

We have a large number of mormon friends and not one EVER, has raised the issue of religion with us. In fact, last night we went to a neighborhood get together where we were the only non-mormons there and it totally a non-issue.

 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Help Me To Understand Mormons

Sun Aug 08, 2004 7:19 am

Actually, the catholic church does have the same emphasis on having kids

Including the Pope who bothers to travel to AIDS-infested Africa to tell countries (where generation of today's 15-25 year olds has virtually no chance of becoming generation of 25-35 year olds in 10 years) like Kenyathat condoms are a no-no...
 
Skyway1
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RE: Help Me To Understand Mormons

Sun Aug 08, 2004 8:26 am

Oh sorry....I thought the thread was titled "Help Me To Understand MORONS!!!"
Thought it was a political discussion.

Chris

 Nuts  Nuts

EDIT: Cause my keyboard is a piece of shite


[Edited 2004-08-08 01:27:34]
KNUK, KNUK, KNUK woowoowoo
 
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RE: Help Me To Understand Mormons

Mon Aug 09, 2004 4:40 am

As I understand it, Mormons believe in varying "levels" of heaven - the upper tiers of which only "good" Mormons can get to.

I seem to recall a "recovering Mormon" friend of mine telling me something about how a man had to "call" his wife to the top level of heaven, and that she could not get there without his help. I don't know how accurate that is, but that's what I remember being told.

In a way, it seems like the LDS faith is based loosely on a class system, not much unlike those of 19th and early 20th century sailing vessels. You had first class, second class, and steerage. Only those in the upper classes could get to the higher levels of the ship.

In the LDS faith, the higher levels of heaven are supposedly reserved for good Mormons, etc...no one else can get there. (Or so I'm told)


"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
jamesag96
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RE: Help Me To Understand Mormons

Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:49 am

Anyone see the Southpark episode dealing with Mormons...pretty much sums it up.
Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Help Me To Understand Mormons

Mon Aug 09, 2004 9:02 am

They're a crazy sect of whack jobs, just like any other religion....but they're a special kind of crazy.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
VSlover
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RE: Help Me To Understand Mormons

Mon Aug 09, 2004 9:57 am

i am wholly non-religiuos, and i approach religion from an academic perspective. that being said, i was dating a guy who was mormon...when we broke up, three weeks later a book of mormon arrived in my mailbox.

really.

but i read it, cover to cover. it is a fascinating story, though so much of it cant be refuted not only scientifically but historically. i wonder sometimes when the book was being recorded if anyone really thought it would become the serious religious group that it has become today.

i also used to work with a hardcore mormon girl-she and her husband had moved to the city for the church...not once did she ever broach the topic unless specifically asked.

i just take issue with so much of the religion is shrouded in a veil of, well, secrecy for lack of a better word. and not just for the outsider (no entry to temples) but even to those who are mormons have certain limits placed upon them--ask one to describe the marriage ceremony, and one may be hard pressed if he/she hasn't yet gone through it as it is not open to anyone beyond the man/woman and official. or limits on entry to temples for occasions such as marriages, one must be deemed "temple worth." whats the point of exclusion?

fascinating bascially.
 
johnboy
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RE: Help Me To Understand Mormons

Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:15 pm

Crazy, crazy religion.

Geneology is big as they can do 'baptism by proxy;' plus all good Mormon (men) will become rulers of their own special planets in the hereafter, where all their dozens of children will reside. A wife can only rise to the level of her husband, i.e. if he's a slacker, she could walk on water and it still won't matter in heaven.

However lots of $$$$. See the Time magazine article from a few years back called "Mormons, Inc."

Only in America folks.
 
North County
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RE: Help Me To Understand Mormons

Tue Aug 10, 2004 3:16 am

I'm LDS,

Tithing is from the Bible : Pay 1 of the 10 of your "increase" - I.E. 10% tithe

We view children as a blessing from heaven and our religion, also Roman Catholics, does not instruct us to practice birth control.

There is no "score card" as to how many children you have so to speak....

We have just one child.

The best way to help you to understand "Mormons" is to pray to God and ask him your questions.

[Edited 2004-08-09 20:18:23]
 
SegmentKing
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RE: Help Me To Understand Mormons

Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:24 pm

I'm also LDS, and I know of another poster who is also mormon.

There are many mysteries of the church which are not easily understood by many christians & other non-believers that is hard to grasp. While I am not fully into the entire doctrine of the Church, I do believe in 85% of what we do and how we do it.

In regards to kids, there are no restrictions on the number of children. But as long as you have a firm foundation & family, they are yours forever (eternity), which is why you don't see many couples that are split (mormon marrying a non-mormon).

I'm probably NOT the best person to talk about the Church, but it is an amazing organization and a great place to be!

-n
~ ~ ~ ~ pRoFeSsIoNaL hUrRiCaNe DoDgEr ~ ~ ~ ~
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Help Me To Understand Mormons

Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:44 pm

I've met a ton of gay Mormons. It's merely anecdotal but I feel that there is a high perentage of gay Mormons. Not only that, their siblings are often gay too.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
North County
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RE: Help Me To Understand Mormons

Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:53 am


Could it be that there are more LDS members then you thought existed?
 
SegmentKing
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RE: Help Me To Understand Mormons

Wed Aug 11, 2004 1:01 am

the church doesn't need to know i'm gay :P although its driving me nuts when I go to church on Sundays and I get invited to dinner from people, its normally to introduce me to their daughters!  Laugh out loud

-n
~ ~ ~ ~ pRoFeSsIoNaL hUrRiCaNe DoDgEr ~ ~ ~ ~
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Help Me To Understand Mormons

Wed Aug 11, 2004 1:06 am

"although its driving me nuts when I go to church on Sundays and I get invited to dinner from people, its normally to introduce me to their daughters"

And those BYU boys.....mon dieu!!!

Honestly, you're part of a group that hates you...why why why?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
North County
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RE: Help Me To Understand Mormons

Wed Aug 11, 2004 1:28 am



Where does it say that the LDS church hates gays?
 
TWFirst
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RE: Help Me To Understand Mormons

Wed Aug 11, 2004 2:10 am

Hey SegmentKing...

Do/Did you know the Felt's in Decatur (Mark)? Or the Purvines? I went to EHS with them... they were LDS.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
Shawn Patrick
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RE: Help Me To Understand Mormons

Wed Aug 11, 2004 2:14 am

Somtimes it seems like the LDS church is there to help/take advantage of people who can't think for themselves. Some people are lost in life, or just want someone to tell them what to do. The LDS church does this well. It tells members EXACTLY what they should be doing, what goals they should strive for, and definetly everything they should NOT do. Oh, and pay the higher-ups 10% every month, too. Lost people and those who can't think for themselves like this scheme, because they never doubt themselves - the church lays out guidelines for everything, so there is no personal decision-making going on.

In turn, the church heirarchy benefits from having more members and more thithe money. The trickle-up effect... those at the top get very rich.

I call it brainwashing and taking advantage of people who can't think for themselves.

That's my ~other~ opinion of the church.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Help Me To Understand Mormons

Wed Aug 11, 2004 2:16 am

"Where does it say that the LDS church hates gays?"

The LDS church excommunicates known gays.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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RE: Help Me To Understand Mormons

Wed Aug 11, 2004 2:26 am

The girl I referred to earlier as a "recovering Mormon" used to tell me how much she HATED running into LDS friends who were coming back from their missions.

They'd start talking to her and looking her up and down - but not like normal guys do, checking out the bod - they were looking for a wedding ring! Upon seeing she wasn't wearing one, they'd IMMEDIATELY start asking if she was seeing anyone, and if she was still in good standing with the church.

"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Help Me To Understand Mormons

Wed Aug 11, 2004 2:31 am

"if she was still in good standing with the church.
"

...and if she had good birthing hips...
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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RE: Help Me To Understand Mormons

Wed Aug 11, 2004 2:50 am

...and if she had good birthing hips...

And if she knew how to park a Suburban. Can't forget that.  Big grin
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
VSlover
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RE: Help Me To Understand Mormons

Wed Aug 11, 2004 2:51 am

...and if she had good birthing hips...

bravo...bravo...  Smile

oddly enough, i reunited a mormon coworker with my exboyfriend. apparently they grew up as childhood friends, moved apart, and never heard from oneanother until i came along.

boy, that was an awkward ride to work that morning.

she would also relate tales of how horrified she was that she would never be married when she was only 26!

fortunately [for her] she was temple worthy and wore the LDS garments and all..
 
jamesag96
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RE: Help Me To Understand Mormons

Wed Aug 11, 2004 3:00 am

No...seriously, find the Southpark episode about Mormons.

Pure Gold
Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
 
North County
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RE: Help Me To Understand Mormons

Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:27 am

Hey, my wife NOW drives a Suburban!

Now both men and woman serve missons - very honorable undertaking - spending 18-24 months overseas in most cases and paying their own way.

So they look for a ring and then ask if the person is seeing anyone - is that so unusual?

Never heard hate being preached ever...

The church excommunicates for many other reasons - one being if you have more then one wife.
 
redngold
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RE: Help Me To Understand Mormons

Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:26 am

Not to throw gasoline on a fire or anything, but LDS has a huge number of differences from both mainline and conservative Christianity.

[rant]

For example, the whole baptism by proxy thing. It completely takes away the Biblical notion of free will. I'm sorry, but you simply cannot change a person's fate by choosing for them after their own earthly death. That person makes their choice in their own heart, and once they've made their decision, it's God's judgement, not yours years later.

And you claim to believe in God in Heaven, but then your church teaches that you will become gods of your own celestial kingdoms after your death if you're good Mormons.

The whole secrecy issue gets me as well. You want people to join your church, but you won't let them see and understand everything involved, like it's some sort of fraternity or something. Ahem, I'm sorry, it is from a fraternity -- the Masons. Most of your most secret, sacred rites are straight from Masonic rituals, like promising to disembowel yourself if you ever give up a secret of the Mormon church. You know what? I don't want to be part of that. I want to trust and believe in a God who reveals directly to me, through His divinely inspired word, not through some elected "First President and Prophet."

Besides, Joseph Smith himself said that if the Bible and the Book of Mormon disagreed, then the Bible should be the primary text. Over the years the LDS has strayed even from the teachings of its own founder and Prophet.

I have many of the same critiques for the Roman Catholic Church, many mainline and even some so-called "evangelical, Bible-believing" churches that make up additional doctrines along the way. There are some mysteries that will never be explained -- and believing in God despite that is called "faith."

[/rant]
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