Alpha 1
Topic Author
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SWVT's Have Ties To Rove, Bush

Fri Aug 20, 2004 10:12 pm

Well, I said this was the case, and since it smelled so much like a Bush/Rove type of attack, read it and weep, all you RWAK's.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/20/politics/campaign/20swift.html?ex=1093060800&en=820eaffc948c1e3e&ei=5059&partner=AOL

A few snippets from the article:

"A series of interviews and a review of documents show a web of connections to the Bush family, high-profile Texas political figures and President Bush's chief political aide, Karl Rove."

"Several of those now declaring Mr. Kerry "unfit" had lavished praise on him, some as recently as last year."

" What drives the veterans, they acknowledge, is less what Mr. Kerry did during his time in Vietnam than what he said after."


Read the rest. I'm sure our RWAK friends will excuse and apologize, then bully those who dare defend Mr. Kerry or dare tie Mr. Rove or Mr. Bush to this. Too bad. These SWVT's are dishonorable, bitter old men, who have held a grudge for years, not, as the article says ,over what Kerry did in the war, but that he dared speak out against it (as lots of Vets did, but lots of Vets aren't running for President ,are they?). Their lie is unravelling, and it looks like Mr. Bush and his top handler are getting ensnared in it.

Suits me just fine.

OK, RWAK's, fire away with your pot-shots.

[Edited 2004-08-20 15:12:55]
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
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RE: SWVT's Have Ties To Rove, Bush

Fri Aug 20, 2004 10:15 pm

And I heard that Moveon.org has links to George Soros....Your point in all this.

Other then continuing an irrational hatred?
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
HOMER71
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RE: SWVT's Have Ties To Rove, Bush

Fri Aug 20, 2004 10:30 pm

RWAK... Right Whips on Alpha1's Kerry?  Big grin
"On spaceship earth there are no passengers...only crew."
 
pilot kaz
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RE: SWVT's Have Ties To Rove, Bush

Fri Aug 20, 2004 10:32 pm

-
 
cwapilot
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RE: SWVT's Have Ties To Rove, Bush

Fri Aug 20, 2004 10:34 pm

I find it interesting that the Kerry people, and Kerry himself, have done nothing to refute the actual claims of these people, on a factual basis. In fact, they do nothing to refute claims about his Senate record, both voting and attendance. They, instead, try to make each and every criticism out to be some sort of conspiracy planned by the Bush family, and attempt to smear those who would make claims against him...not so nice message, not exactly untrue, so SHOOT THE MESSENGER! Look, Kerry decided to make his war record a centerpiece of his campaign. Therefore, it is up for scrutiny and criticism. He should have followed John McCain's advice, and declared the Vietnam war over. However, it is the only distraction Sen. Kerry has from his abysmal Senate record. Kerry folks are going to have to get used to the fact that many, many people at all levels of occupational and wealth status have "ties" to the Bush family. It is a BIG family, which has been active politically for a very long time. Kerry's just having a hard time making his transition from "Vote for me; I'm not the other guy" to "This is why you should vote for me, regardless of the other guy."
Southside Irish...our two teams are the White Sox and whoever plays the Cubs!
 
QIguy24
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RE: SWVT's Have Ties To Rove, Bush

Fri Aug 20, 2004 10:35 pm

Hehe.... Big grin
Why did a have a feeling that this Phuket air would show up in this thread??
 
Alpha 1
Topic Author
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RE: SWVT's Have Ties To Rove, Bush

Fri Aug 20, 2004 10:36 pm

And I heard that Moveon.org has links to George Soros....Your point in all this.

Is that Bush is lying through his teeth when he sais people shouldn't question Kerry's service, because, through allies and friends, and a nice web in Texas, he's doing that.

WOOF WOOF, L-188. I knew I could count on you-even though you're NOT a Republican, to try to deflect the subject. So freaking typical.

Other then continuing an irrational hatred?

Yes, the SBVT's do have an irrational hatred, don't they.

Smoooooch! Pucker up, L-188.

And Cwapilot adds absolutely nothing to the discussion of the topic, but just turns it into a usual RWAK rant against Kerry. WOOF WOOF!

[Edited 2004-08-20 15:38:17]
 
pilot kaz
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RE: SWVT's Have Ties To Rove, Bush

Fri Aug 20, 2004 10:37 pm

you agree then QIguy24?  Big thumbs up

[Edited 2004-08-20 15:38:01]
-
 
cwapilot
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RE: SWVT's Have Ties To Rove, Bush

Fri Aug 20, 2004 10:38 pm

When you look up and down the list of threads, it seems like the usual suspects merely rehash the Democratic talking points of the day. Don't you people have your own hate-sites for this drivel?
Southside Irish...our two teams are the White Sox and whoever plays the Cubs!
 
L-188
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RE: SWVT's Have Ties To Rove, Bush

Fri Aug 20, 2004 10:43 pm

You've noticed that too Cwapilot.

You would think that James Carvell has hacked some forum members passwords
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
QIguy24
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RE: SWVT's Have Ties To Rove, Bush

Fri Aug 20, 2004 10:45 pm

Pilot Kaz,

Well I must admit that I do. Big grin
I'm also starting to get tired of all these threads. But on the other hand I agree with Alpha. The righties on this bord should hear some truths about Mr Bush  Big grin
I know this is one of the only political threadstarter Alpha has started so It's ok. But that other guy Rsmith is starting to become a pain in the ass. And I still wish they could post them in the 2 Official election threads we have made for this purpose.
 
MidnightMike
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RE: SWVT's Have Ties To Rove, Bush

Fri Aug 20, 2004 10:45 pm



Welcome to the world of the "527" ad attacks, same thing can be said with Moveon.org, everybody was ok with that group & they are being financed by every Leftie Democrat. These "527" groups are disgusting and they will once again have to change the campaign laws, both sides are under attack.

Making a donation is not the same as being in bed with the Swift Boat ads, as long as the two groups are not working together, there is no problem. I can make a donation to the Swift Boat ads, it does not mean that the ads are being supported by the Republican part.

Now, the best that John Kerry can do is to find out where the money?? Wasn't to hard, the group released the list of donors earlier than required.



NO URLS in signature
 
Alpha 1
Topic Author
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RE: SWVT's Have Ties To Rove, Bush

Fri Aug 20, 2004 10:58 pm

When you look up and down the list of threads, it seems like the usual suspects merely rehash the Democratic talking points of the day. Don't you people have your own hate-sites for this drivel?

And, for a second time, Cwapilot adds absolutely zilch to the subject, but to do EXACTLY what I said people like him would do-attack the messenger.

Welcome to the RWAK's, Cwapilot. You definitely qualify. Woof Woof.
 
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JeffM
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RE: SWVT's Have Ties To Rove, Bush

Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:34 pm

"And, for a second time, Cwapilot adds absolutely zilch to the subject..

..and if you add that to what alpha-boy adds to the discussion, the grand total = 0.
 
QIguy24
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RE: SWVT's Have Ties To Rove, Bush

Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:42 pm

Well Jeff,

At least his grand total ends on 0. That is still more than your total of -1  Big grin

[Edited 2004-08-20 16:43:01]
 
Boeing757/767
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RE: SWVT's Have Ties To Rove, Bush

Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:42 pm

What's an RWAK?

FILLER
Free-thinking, left-leaning secularist
 
jamesag96
Posts: 2007
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RE: SWVT's Have Ties To Rove, Bush

Sat Aug 21, 2004 12:31 am

I haven't read the posts, I get tired of the Alf's, the Jaysits, the Rsmiths on here that continually attack without asking questions.

Has John Kerry come out and refuted all of the material presented?

Have his lawyers threatened law suits to publishers and television stations for providing the book and commercials?

Could that convey guilt by aversion?

Did he get jammed up on something as simple as Cambodia? Yes.

Are there questions regarding his service and how he came about his medals?

Has the media taken the time (a la Bush/Guard Service) to investigate?
Am I surprised?

Interesting link:
http://www.drudgereport.com/dnc99.htm

Just going to get worse between now and Nov, and I love that Phucket picture.
Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: SWVT's Have Ties To Rove, Bush

Sat Aug 21, 2004 12:36 am

Still....do I care about Kerry or Bush's military service 30+ years ago? Nope!
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
Boeing757/767
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RE: SWVT's Have Ties To Rove, Bush

Sat Aug 21, 2004 12:42 am

Maverick, I agree with you on that one.

To me the point is very simple. Did Bush serve in Vietnam? Nope. Did Kerry? Yes. End of story.

Given Kerry's service IN Vietnam, the Bush campaign has no right to criticize his service since their guy never stepped foot in Indochina at the time. Therefore, end of story.
Free-thinking, left-leaning secularist
 
Alpha 1
Topic Author
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RE: SWVT's Have Ties To Rove, Bush

Sat Aug 21, 2004 1:04 am

.and if you add that to what alpha-boy adds to the discussion, the grand total = 0

I started the thread. RWAK's like yourself and Cwapilot haven't even commented on it-just your same dry, useless, self-effacing junk. For a guy who thinks he so smart, you don't ever have much to say, except to make fun of others. Tells me one thing-you don't HAVE anything to say in defense.

James-I link to a respected paper, The New York Times. You link to Drudge. And you want me to take you seriously. Get a life. Woof Woof.

Btw. RWAK's stands for Right-Wing Ass-Kissers.
 
jamesag96
Posts: 2007
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RE: SWVT's Have Ties To Rove, Bush

Sat Aug 21, 2004 1:09 am

Boeing...you are a Kerry supporter aren't you?

Flippity Flop all in one post. Good show.
Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
 
Alpha 1
Topic Author
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RE: SWVT's Have Ties To Rove, Bush

Sat Aug 21, 2004 1:12 am

James, and you're bucking for President of the RWAK's, Inc., with such worthless divel as above. Woof Woof.
 
jamesag96
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RE: SWVT's Have Ties To Rove, Bush

Sat Aug 21, 2004 1:25 am

What worthless drivel?

Where I point out that B757/767 agrees with Mav and then proceeds to outline his thoughts on the Kerry service questions...that aren't being done by the Bush camp?

Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
 
CaptOveur
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RE: SWVT's Have Ties To Rove, Bush

Sat Aug 21, 2004 1:51 am

Cry me a freakin' river.. Take your own advice and MOVE ON
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
Boeing757/767
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RE: SWVT's Have Ties To Rove, Bush

Sat Aug 21, 2004 4:10 am

James,

Like all intelligent people, I see the bigger picture. An intelligent person actually can see BOTH sides of a story and come to his or her own conclusion without taking a hard line.

Exactly how is it flip-flopping that I agree with Maverick about not caring about the service but point out that Bush has no right to criticize Kerry on this issue? Either way, it should not be an issue in the campaign.
Free-thinking, left-leaning secularist
 
spinzels
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RE: SWVT's Have Ties To Rove, Bush

Sat Aug 21, 2004 4:30 am

I haven't read the posts, I get tired of the Alf's, the Jaysits, the Rsmiths on here that continually attack without asking questions.

I could tell you hadn’t been actually reading the posts, but I appreciate your candor. I promise as soon as you start referring us to some good sources supporting your arguments you will be through with us. I’ve been waiting for sources from several anti-Kerry posters in the past few days, and I’ve been continually disappointed

You have some questions, that’s great. Tell you what, if I answer yours, will you answer mine. (And I’ll make you a deal: I won’t quote “Salon” or “the Nation” or “The Guardian” if you don’t quote the “Drudge Report”, the “Washington Times” or the “Telegraph”.)


Has John Kerry come out and refuted all of the material presented?

The material has been pretty badly torched. Contrary to the complaints from the right, the media has been investigating this matter thoroughly. The Boston Globe has run several stories on the SBV campaign starting as far back as two weeks ago well before the story starting breaking out on all the right-wing blogs. Unfortunately, the SBV campaign also appears to be badly foundering when it is held up to even the most minimal media scrutiny. Several links to stories critical of the SBV campaign have been posted on this and another thread, but I’ll post them here again for your reference: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/20/politics/campaign/20swift.html, http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=231, http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A13267-2004Aug18.html
Please actually read them before you criticize.

Have his lawyers threatened law suits to publishers and television stations for providing the book and commercials?

No, and this is very rarely done in the U.S. because it is very difficult for a politician to win defamatory/libel law suits. In fact, I cannot think of a politician or public figure who has even filed such a law suit in the last twenty years, can you name me one? The last person who actually won such a lawsuit was General William Westmorland in 1983.

Also note that the TV stations would not actually be liable for defamation just for running these commercials.

Could that convey guilt by aversion?

Not sure what “aversion” is. If you mean, is Kerry tacitly admitting the truth of the allegations by not contesting them in court, then no I don’t think so for the reasons above. Of course this argument can be turned around just as easily. If Michael Moore, Moveon etc. are all spreading lies about GWB, why aren’t his lawyers threatening legal action? Could this be guilt by “aversion”?

Did he get jammed up on something as simple as Cambodia?

It appears that Kerry may not have been there on 12/24/1968 (still unclear), but he was in Cambodia in January and February of 1969. Thankfully, George Bush, was safely tucked away at this time in Midland, TX.

Are there questions regarding his service and how he came about his medals?

Sure, the entire SBV campaign is based on that, see my answer to your first question above. Again, the SBV campaign is not holding up well to factual scrutiny.

Has the media taken the time (a la Bush/Guard Service) to investigate? Am I surprised?

Don’t know if your surprised, but the media has investigated Kerry's service record thoroughly. Moreover, there is a difference with regard to Bush’ s TANG service in that there were always further lingering questions that the Bush Administration never adequately answered and that kept the story going. For example, the Bush Administration will not release his military medical records, nor have they been able to prove that Bush performed any TANG-related function while supposedly in Alabama between May 1972 and October 1972.

Additionally there is an objective aspect here that you ignore. The dispute about Bush's TANG was an objective question, he could either prove that he had done his full service or he couldn't. By contrast, here people are questioning whether Kerry was sufficiently brave or sufficiently wounded to earn five combat decorations. No one has every tried to do that to a veteran before (Given the SBV's spotty factual record, you see why).

At any rate the media gave the TANG story a complete pass in the 2000 campaign. You should be thanking them for that.


Now my questions for you:

Where did George Bush perform his TANG responsibilities from May 1972 to October 1972 when he was supposedly in a guard unit in Alabama? (Please include a source with your answer).

Swift Boat Veterans George Elliot, Adrian Lonsdale, and Roy F. Hoffman who all criticize John Kerry in the SBV commercials, have all previously praised John Kerry and his Vietnam service with the highest praise. Were they lying then, or are they lying now?

The Bush campaign claims that: “it will not raise questions about [Kerry’s] military service”.
So when a supporter says to GWB’s face that John Kerry received his purple hearts for “two self-inflicted scratches” does Bush have an obligation to correct the supporter that John Kerry’s military service is not at issue?

Assuming Kerry misspoke when he said that he was in Cambodia on 12/24/68, and in fact he wasn’t in Cambodia until the next month, January 1969, what is the implication for Kerry’s honesty and character?


Looking forward to your answers! Hope they are not "drivel".
I've been to Paradise, but I've never been to me
 
b757300
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RE: SWVT's Have Ties To Rove, Bush

Sat Aug 21, 2004 4:51 am

Of course there is no proof that the SBVT are connected to President Bush except for the fact that one of their donors has give money to President Bush. How many rich Kerry supporters have given money to Moveon.org? Probably far more than the number of rich Bush supporters who have given money to the SBVT.

Then of course there is the Moveon.org staffer who works for the Kerry campaign.

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/articles/2004/04/08/moveonorg_official_joins_kerry_campaign_staff
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
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RE: SWVT's Have Ties To Rove, Bush

Sat Aug 21, 2004 11:01 am

You know the way that Alpha1 obsesses about GW, he is going to give himself a heart attack before he gets a chance to vote against him
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
slider
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RE: SWVT's Have Ties To Rove, Bush

Sat Aug 21, 2004 11:08 am

L-188, and God help us if W gets re-elected, the sumbitch'll have a total meltdown.

Of course, I'm voting for either the Libertarian or Constitution Party candidate, so I'm voting my conscience.

Kerry is still a disingenuous, pathological lying sonuvabitch and anyone who votes for him is intellectually dishonest. The man stands for nothing--or everything, as it were--and sometimes all at the same time.

Neither W nor "John F'ing Kerry" offer the best alternative....but that's what our Republic has devolved into when less than half the voting public actually votes, absorbs themselves in apathy, and doesn't take active control in preserving the America that we should be.
 
AvObserver
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RE: SWVT's Have Ties To Rove, Bush

Sat Aug 21, 2004 2:09 pm

Excellent post, Slider, and I salute you for voting your conscience, regardless of your candidate's slim-to-none chances. I can't be that pure, myself, I need to know my vote helps make a difference. In this case, as in too many others, I'm going with what I believe to be the lesser of two bad eggs. As much as I agree with you about Kerry's lack of sincerety, I can't support Bush because I disagree too much about what he's done or intends to do. Kerry's lack of a firm stand on too many issues is apalling but because he's philosophically closer to my ideals, I've liitle choice but to back him. I hate it that our two main parties are so strong, hardly anyone else even shows up on the radar, public apathy probably does largely account for that. Perhaps all the political heat this year will actually help get the people out to vote, if so, at least some good will have come out of the sordid slander that both main parties are throwing at each other. A crying shame it always gets so petty but that seems to be Standard Operating Procedure for both Democrats and Republicans alike at election time.  Sad

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