racko
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Olympic Spirit?

Sun Aug 22, 2004 10:09 pm

This doesn't let me rest, and I want to hear what people from, France, GB & the USA think about the case, as well as neutral people:

The German military riders team won the team gold medal, and Bettina Hoy won the single gold medal on wednesday. However, the "ground jury" (some sort of technical officials) decided that she should get 14 seconds.

Here's what happened:

They were doing Jump riding (I don't know the correct term, but you know what I mean) and when a rider starts he has 45 seconds time to ride around the course before he has to start the actual competitive riding. The time starts when a rider crosses an imaginery line before the first obstacle. Then on a display the timer starts to count the seconds a rider needs for the course. Now Bettina Hoy accidently crossed the start line during her "warm-up riding". It was absolutely obvious that she didn't intend to start, as she was riding very slow and not in the direction of the first obstacle. The timer that counts the seconds did not start, leaving no chance for her to realize that the time was already counting! Now she continued her warm-up for another 14 seconds (perfectly within the 45 seconds she has for warm-up) before she crossed the start line again, this time fast and approaching the first obstacle. She went on to an amazing performance winning Germany the gold medal for the team and making the ground for her own single medal.



Now afterwards, France, Great Britain and the United States appealed against the result, because of this incident. The ground jury accepted and denied Germany the gold medals.

Germany appealed against this decision at some sort of technical commision, saying that due to the timer not starting Hoy had no chance to realize the mistake and start asap (what she would obviously would have done had she known that the time was already counting) because the display still showed the warm-up countdown. The appeal was upheld again and Germany again was 2 gold medals richer.



Now France, Great Britain and the United States appealed again, and the CAS decided that the technical commitee did not have the right to decide on this issue and again made France in the team and a GB rider olympic champions.

Again, Bettina Hoy did not have any advantage because of the start!

This leaves Bettina Hoy and the German team, who have won the gold medals in a sportive way and simply were the best this time with no medals.

Not only do I think that the decision is wrong (because the ground jury made a mistake themselves and you can't punish an athlete for a mistake of the judges), but I also think that the appeals from France, Great Britain and the United States are against the Olympic Spirit. They happened to be worse than the German riders this time, and even if you were the favorite you should accept it. If the Germans had have any advantage, the appeal would be perfectly ok with me - but not like this.

I don't understand how you can be proud of a medal you didn't win?

While the US officials showed at least some symphaty and acknowledged that the situation was bad and that they did not want a medal ceremony, the French officials acted as if Bettina Hoy had shot their horses and obviously that they won the gold medal in a perfectly right way. Pathetic.

Just a little bit more food for thought: When the American swimmer Aaron Peirsol was disqualified (the DQF was later taken back), the Austrian Silver Medal winner Markus Rogan said that he doesn't want a gold medal he didn't win and can't be happy about winning this was. I think, this should be the Olympic Spirit.


What do you think about it?
 
L-188
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RE: Olympic Spirit?

Sun Aug 22, 2004 10:17 pm

While the US officials showed at least some symphaty and acknowledged that the situation was bad and that they did not want a medal ceremony, the French officials acted as if Bettina Hoy had shot their horses and obviously that they won the gold medal in a perfectly right way. Pathetic

Please don't put the US and the French points of view together on this.

[Edited 2004-08-22 15:26:10]
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Andreas
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RE: Olympic Spirit?

Sun Aug 22, 2004 10:24 pm

Even worse:

The French denied the usual shakehands after the event...my reaction would have been:

Spit in their frigging faces!!!!!  Angry  Angry  Angry  Angry  Angry

Sorry but this was outrageous..Germany won fair and square and they were the best..obviously an unacceptable fact for some so-called "sportsmen"  Angry

And the Brit captain even stated openly in a TV interview: I want to take advantage by all means, no matter who was the best during competition.

Dear Brits: You are currently building a tremendous reputation for being one of the sorest losers ever in sports history...soon you'll be co-No. 1 together with the Frogs, your buddies in mind anyway!  Angry

Seriously: I hope very much you won't make it to Germany 2006, I really do, just to watch you whine and scream in the streets..that would be the correct and well-fitting revanche for this!!

And for those interested in technicalities: What Olympic champion (she is...NO ONE ELSE!!!) Bettina Hoy did happens all the time and never was a problem, because it does not give an advantage whatsoever...and IF there was a mistake it was the guys working the clock, but there ARE rules that in such a case you may never ever hand over responsability to the rider. Period!
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QIguy24
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RE: Olympic Spirit?

Sun Aug 22, 2004 10:40 pm

Personally I think the Olympic spirit is gone. It's too political IMO.
And a case like this and that american swimmer case totally blows everything.
Off course cheating is wrong, but none of these cases was actually cheat. It was just simple accidents. And you shouldn't be disqualified for accidents.

Why just not accept that you came in as number 2 and stop looking for cases to get the gold medal winner disqualified.

This also reminds me of the Aussie swimming qualifications, where Ian Thorpe got disqualified in the 400m something for falling in the water before starting. And the winner actually gave up his place to Thorpe, because he knew that Thorpe were the better swimmer, and would have won the qualification if he competed.

That is true sportsman ship and all my respect to that guy!!  Big thumbs up


[Edited 2004-08-22 15:42:46]
 
Andreas
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RE: Olympic Spirit?

Sun Aug 22, 2004 10:46 pm

Should I manage to turn up I'll buy you a beer QI...just for this post!!

Oh and should by chance Olivier le Page and that other sick F#@k read this...should I ever meet you face to face...I'll throw you on the ground and pi@s in yours!!!!

And to the Brits...you are now level with these cheating intrigating monkeys...what you always wanted to achieve in life!!! Congrats!!
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QIguy24
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RE: Olympic Spirit?

Sun Aug 22, 2004 10:56 pm

Well, thank you Andreas Big grin

For once I actually used my brain for something good and I was awarded a beer for it as well.
Damn I should use my brain for more good things in the future then  Big thumbs up
 
L-188
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RE: Olympic Spirit?

Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:01 pm

There hasn't been a non-political olympics since the 1936 games.

Then came the Hitler games, and then the cold war games.....There was some hope from Barcalona on but it wasn't to pass.
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Klaus
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Andreas

Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:01 pm

Andreas: Oh and should by chance Olivier le Page and that other sick F#@k read this...should I ever meet you face to face...I'll throw you on the ground and pi@s in yours!!!!

Now that would show them what the "olympic spirit" is all about, wouldn´t it...?  Wink/being sarcastic

I agree it´s a sad state of affairs and those who are pushing forwards no matter what should be ashamed of themselves. The judges made a mistake. Can they be disqualified as well, by the way...? Big grin
 
L-188
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RE: Olympic Spirit?

Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:04 pm

Actually the three that scored the Mens Gymnasitics competition have been.

The two that screwed up and their supervisor.
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Andreas
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RE: Olympic Spirit?

Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:09 pm

Klaus this is all about revenge...no teaching anymore!!! When I heard about that ridiculous verdict, I said a few things that were much worse, trust me...it had something to do with the language these morons would be speaking right now  Big grin!!!

I never said I'm a good or even nice guy, I'm a mean, greedy, heartless, dark-blue-suit-wearing, French-face-spitting, cheese-eating surr...oh no stop, these last two don't belong here, but the rest is true  Big grin

QI: Well done...since I probably won't make it next weekend I count on you to forget this during your drinking spree all over the capital Big grin Big grin Big grin
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Klaus
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RE: Olympic Spirit?

Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:14 pm

L-188: Actually the three that scored the Mens Gymnasitics competition have been.

So there´s still hope for justice...  Acting devilish


Andreas: Klaus this is all about revenge...no teaching anymore!!!

Okay. So good that we´ve talked about it.  Wink/being sarcastic


Andreas: I never said I'm a good or even nice guy, I'm a mean, greedy, heartless, dark-blue-suit-wearing, French-face-spitting, cheese-eating surr...oh no stop, these last two don't belong here, but the rest is true

Sure. We always knew that.  Big thumbs up
 
L-188
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RE: Olympic Spirit?

Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:18 pm

So there´s still hope for justice

Yup, maybe some day Roy Jones and the 1972 US Basketball team will get their gold medals.
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Andreas
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RE: Olympic Spirit?

Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:20 pm

Good!!! Remember...Darmstadt is not THAT far....  Big grin Big grin Big grin Big grin

And as for the Brits...I have a few on the team...afraid you guys will have to pay the price!!  Acting devilish  Acting devilish  Acting devilish

Oh and Kirkie, should you read this: Flooding England AND France is a good idea...RIGHT NOW would be a good time...if you need help...just holler!
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QIguy24
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RE: Olympic Spirit?

Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:28 pm

L-188,

And hopefully that american boxer who "lost" in Seoul will get his too. But I doubt that will ever happen in my lifetime.

 
L-188
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RE: Olympic Spirit?

Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:31 pm

That would be Roy Jones...
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QIguy24
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RE: Olympic Spirit?

Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:35 pm

Oh... damn.. Was his name Roy Jones.. I didn't know his name. I only remember what happened.
I thought you ment that Roy Jones was the name of the coach of the basketball team.

Edit: But thanks for clearing that out for me.  Big thumbs up

[Edited 2004-08-22 16:38:17]
 
Klaus
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Andreas

Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:42 pm

Andreas: Good!!! Remember...Darmstadt is not THAT far....

Woo-hoo! I´m so scaredBig grin
 
Andreas
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RE: Olympic Spirit?

Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:46 pm

You should be...you are not by any chance Olivier le Page...?  Big grin

Gah! Just typing this name and I feel like going to the toilet....  Acting devilish
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Klaus
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Andreas

Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:52 pm

Andreas: You should be...you are not by any chance Olivier le Page...?

I don´t think so... no, I checked again. Phew!  Wink/being sarcastic
 
777236ER
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RE: Olympic Spirit?

Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:53 pm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/olympics_2004/equestrian/3578698.stm

She had 45 seconds to start - not to warm up - after the bell, and crossed the line. Crossing the line means you start, end of. Whether the counter started or not is moot, and clearly those much more higher up in the sport than us agree.
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Gman94
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RE: Olympic Spirit?

Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:14 am

I don't know what you guys are moaning about anyway it's not a real sport.

Any sport where the winner is decided by a group of judges instead of athletes running faster or scoring more goals, can not be classified as sport as far as Im concerned. That includes silly sports like dressage, gymnastics, figure skating, synchronized swimming and all others where a panel of judges decide the winner based on such small techincal differences that are not even visible to the watching public, unless someone falls on their head.

As 777236ER has said, it's quiet clear in the rules of the sport that it is 45 seconds to start, if you cross the line after 5 seconds then you have started. She broke the rules therefore doesn't deserve the gold medal. The question should be can you proud of medal not won by following the rules of the sport?
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Andreas
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RE: Olympic Spirit?

Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:15 am

777: if you have no idea what you're talking about, better be quiet!!!

Or even better, read the regulations AND the decisions that have been made up to now (quite easy..this happens all the time)...IF there was a mistake, it was the guys at the clock...Hoy did take NO advantage and the clock, the only info she gets about what happens, was still counting backwards...meaning she has not started yet and needs to do so during the period of time shown on that clock!

Fire that guy if you like...would be another nice example for sore losership on the Frog-Brit side, but Hoy did well AND SHE WON...and Law lost it and should be deeply ashamed..but obviously that's not in the system of this "gentleman".

Hoy and the Germans ARE Olympic champions!!

And for the sorest losers on this planet: Why don't you just make a habit out of staying away from sport's events held in Germany for the next 50 or 60 years, huh?
2006 would be a brilliant year to start with this habit!!!


btw: I've read the comments on BBC and they VERY CAREFULLY tiptoe around the question about what really happened.

So no bad blood from the Brit side in this disastrous affair?? Well..nice to hear, but there will be bad blood from the German side...and deservedly so.
This was a THEFT! And Britain has again shown what unbelievably sore losers they are!!! I always knew that about the French...good to know who's there partner (and brother) in crime
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777236ER
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RE: Olympic Spirit?

Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:34 am

777: if you have no idea what you're talking about, better be quiet!!!

I'm only saying what news sources say.

Or even better, read the regulations AND the decisions that have been made up to now (quite easy..this happens all the time)...IF there was a mistake, it was the guys at the clock...Hoy did take NO advantage and the clock, the only info she gets about what happens, was still counting backwards...meaning she has not started yet and needs to do so during the period of time shown on that clock!

The mistake clearly lies on her part. She crossed the start line after the bell.

Fire that guy if you like...would be another nice example for sore losership on the Frog-Brit side, but Hoy did well AND SHE WON...and Law lost it and should be deeply ashamed..but obviously that's not in the system of this "gentleman".

Hoy and the Germans ARE Olympic champions!!


No they're not.

And for the sorest losers on this planet: Why don't you just make a habit out of staying away from sport's events held in Germany for the next 50 or 60 years, huh?
2006 would be a brilliant year to start with this habit!!!

This is a technical fault in a technical event. Rules are rules. She crossed the start line after the bell and within 45 seconds - she STARTED, whether the clock started or not.

And once again I'd like to point out, those senior in the sport agree.
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Andreas
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RE: Olympic Spirit?

Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:47 am

SORRY? Those senior on the BRIT side agree...which is rather poor, too.

Quite obviously the British media...as usual, left out those opinions that were a bit critical with Brit behaviour here.

Instead of pointing out that this was a technical fault, that CANNOT be used to the disadvantage of the competitor, they agree in this medal robbery, based on a completely useless formalism that goes strictly AGAINST the idea of teh regulation! ...very funny to hear this from a country that uses the principle "substance over form"...very funny....

Again read and understand instead of citing sources who do NOT cover the relevant angles such as BBC world!

Hoy and the German team were fastest, made the fewest mistakes...so WHO is champion?? Those who lied and cheated...congratulations Frogs and Brits!

Be happy with your theft, be proud with your behaviour after the competition, DENYING the shakehands (that goes for the Forgs only...speaks for itself!)...choke on it!
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racko
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RE: Olympic Spirit?

Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:00 am

"She had 45 seconds to start - not to warm up - after the bell, and crossed the line. Crossing the line means you start, end of. Whether the counter started or not is moot, and clearly those much more higher up in the sport than us agree."

And what are those 45 seconds for? They are there so that the horse can ride a few metres on the course to get a feeling for the ground again etc. - What's that called if not warm up?

And actually, those higher in the sport did not agree - they took the decision back. The ones who made the decisions in the first place were those who made the mistake with the clock.

Comparision with football:
A team attacks, the linesmen raises his flag, the referee whistles and the defending team stops to play because of offside. Meanwhile the attackers score a goal and afterwards someone tells the referee that it wasn't actually offside. Does the goal count or not? Of course not, because you can't blame the defending team for not defending when the referees made a mistake.
 
777236ER
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RE: Olympic Spirit?

Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:21 am

SORRY? Those senior on the BRIT side agree...which is rather poor, too.

Those senior in the sport, who obviously upheld the appeals by the other nations, clearly disagree with you.

Instead of pointing out that this was a technical fault, that CANNOT be used to the disadvantage of the competitor, they agree in this medal robbery, based on a completely useless formalism that goes strictly AGAINST the idea of teh regulation! ...very funny to hear this from a country that uses the principle "substance over form"...very funny....

Yet the heads of the sport disagree with you.

Hoy and the German team were fastest, made the fewest mistakes...so WHO is champion?? Those who lied and cheated...congratulations Frogs and Brits!

She made a technical fault, and got a penalty. Simple as that.

And what are those 45 seconds for? They are there so that the horse can ride a few metres on the course to get a feeling for the ground again etc. - What's that called if not warm up?

Feel the ground but NOT start. A runner can jump about a bit at the start of a race - he or she cannot cross the start line when in the blocks.

And actually, those higher in the sport did not agree - they took the decision back. The ones who made the decisions in the first place were those who made the mistake with the clock.

But then they agreed (eventually) a mistake was made by the Germans.

Comparision with football:
A team attacks, the linesmen raises his flag, the referee whistles and the defending team stops to play because of offside. Meanwhile the attackers score a goal and afterwards someone tells the referee that it wasn't actually offside. Does the goal count or not? Of course not, because you can't blame the defending team for not defending when the referees made a mistake.


Rubbish. Comparision with football:
With 1 minute left, a team has a direct freekick. The player takes the freekick before the ref blows his whistle, scores a fantastic goal and there is celebration all around. Should that be allowed? No, of course not. The rules are the rules. In football, don't take the freekick until the ref says you can, in this event don't cross the start line unless you intend to start. Simple as that.
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Andreas
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RE: Olympic Spirit?

Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:27 am

Racko...good point!

...besides the point about those "higher up in the sport than us" is about as risiculous as it gets! So if someone up the ladder says "jump", you jump, 777, right?
Very good, I thought that was what the Brits always thought about the Germans...funny how arguments change if you need it.

btw: Those highest in the sport AND in the chain of judgement DID GIVE THE MEDAL TO GERMANY...CAS is NOT the highest court for a certain sport.

And as for that brilliant line "you cross the line, so you have started": Well maybe it would be nice to let the competitor KNOW THAT SHE HAS STARTED, wouldn't you agree...because they didn't, and that is definitely NOT the fault of the competitor! (Regulation)

But maybe we can agree on one thing: The behaviour of the Frogs after the event was as disgusting as it can get...INCREDIBLE! THAT was a shame for all civilized people...says a lot about these criminals under the tricolore!
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Andreas
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RE: Olympic Spirit?

Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:35 am

And just for you 777, because you seem to have a grave problem with reading today:

The highest court for the equestrian event did give the medal to Hoy and Germany, the lower didn't!

CAS was called in by the French because they knew they could only make it stick by arguing in a strictly formal way..and even then, quite obviously these judges (lawyers!!) decided NOT to look at he case per se or what really happened...which is why so many "high up in the sport" as you chose to put it, were extremely irritated by the verdict.
Still IOC could decide not to follow CAS, but then they will of course, since France, Brits and USA are way too powerful in IOC...nice to know that this theft (and it IS a theft!!) is supported by a dilettante court and a sports body as spineless as it gets!
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777236ER
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RE: Olympic Spirit?

Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:46 am

Two posts of nonsense with nothing at all to do with the actual infringement.

Do you agree that the German made a mistake?
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Andreas
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RE: Olympic Spirit?

Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:50 am

?????????

And what exactly are you talking about?? Did you follow the event at all?

No, I don't think so....

Ah I see, you're talking about YOUR posts...yes indeed, full of nonsense, false statements, and far away from the actual infringement...but then: Why did you post at all???


To answer your question: In the case I am talking about: No!

But obviously you're somewhere else...
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777236ER
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RE: Olympic Spirit?

Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:54 am

And what exactly are you talking about?? Did you follow the event at all?

No, I don't think so....

Which has what to do with my post? The German made a technical mistake, in that she crossed the start line twice. The rules clearly state once you cross the start line the run is under way.

Ah I see, you're talking about YOUR posts...yes indeed, full of nonsense, false statements, and far away from the actual infringement...but then: Why did you post at all???

Considering all I've done is rehashed what the Olympic officials themselves have said, if you can point out where I'm wrong I'll be pretty amazed. She crossed the start line twice - and expected the second crossing to count.

To answer your question: In the case I am talking about: No!

Yet again, the Olympic officials disagree. Presumably they have more grounding in this sport than you, no?
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Andreas
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RE: Olympic Spirit?

Mon Aug 23, 2004 2:03 am

Yet again, the Olympic officials disagree. Presumably they have more grounding in this sport than you, no?

And again you prove impressively that you do not read posts of others, do not properly read your sources OR do not understand what is written in the sources you so much love to cite:

The Olympic officials DID GIVE the gold medal to Germany, period! The decision of the jury to follow the first protest was REJECTED by the highest court in such olympic matters, giving back gold to Hoy/Germany.

CAS has NOTHING to do with the Olympics! It was a formal verdict, which is extremely questionable as the reactions of the EXPERTS clearly indicate.
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Andreas
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RE: Olympic Spirit?

Mon Aug 23, 2004 2:07 am

The rules clearly state once you cross the start line the run is under way.


Excellent, brilliant, spot on! So tell me, Mr. Genius, WHY didn't the clock start running for Hoy? In fact, it continued to count backwards!

I'm still waiting for an answer on that question, since it seems to be rather crucial in this matter...unfortunately NO ONE, not even the Brits and the Frogs could provide one that indicates a FAULT BY HOY!

And that is what you need to take away gold from her! That is very simple logic
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MD-90
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RE: Olympic Spirit?

Mon Aug 23, 2004 2:20 am

Why couldn't she have ridden again? Remember Tonya Harding complaining to the judges that one of her skate laces or something was broken, and she got to start over?

Since the clock didn't start, and provisions weren't made for her to ride again, then I'd say she's the rightful winner of the gold.
 
777236ER
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RE: Olympic Spirit?

Mon Aug 23, 2004 2:48 am

Excellent, brilliant, spot on! So tell me, Mr. Genius, WHY didn't the clock start running for Hoy? In fact, it continued to count backwards!

I'm still waiting for an answer on that question, since it seems to be rather crucial in this matter...unfortunately NO ONE, not even the Brits and the Frogs could provide one that indicates a FAULT BY HOY!

Erm, read this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/olympics_2004/equestrian/3586618.stm

Everyone in this article says the Germans were at fault, the head of the German team said they must accept the decision.

She crossed the line - hence the time should start and she should get penalties - these are the rules.
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Andreas
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RE: Olympic Spirit?

Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:02 am

777...you are starting to get really boring...you are citing BRIT sources and BRIT officials (and the same all over again), they say the Germans made a fault...wow! never expected this!

And the Germans say, they have to accept it, because there is no other appellation court...which proves exactly what...?

WHAT are you trying to say? The same nonsense all over again? Please don't...I couldn't bear it...or I even might fall asleep!

The olympic world will have to live with the fact that the Brits and the Frogs STOLE 2 gold medals they do not deserve, because nobody, and certainly NEITHER YOU NOT YOUR PATHETIC SOURCE can answer that crucial question:
If she crossed the line, WHY didn't the clock start to take her time?

Well, I suppose there is in fact one answer: Because she didn't make a fault.

And as for that French "sportsman": Hey why don't come to Germany and have your frigging hymn and your lap of honour here? Thousands of Germans will stand up for you.....to open their flies and piss on you!!
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Gman94
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RE: Olympic Spirit?

Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:13 am

You guys questioned the Olympic Spirit going missing with this incident, but what you are actually saying is that you should win at any and all costs. So what if Hoy broke the rules she won, end of story, so what if Ben Johnson took drugs, he won the 100m, end of story.

So your advocating that sportsmen and women can take any and all measures to win regardless of the rules of a sport. Yeah it was a mistake, but there have been lots of mistakes similar to this made and people stripped of their medals. Such as the USA women's relay team in Sydney getting stripped of their gold medals (sorry can't remember the distance) after one of the swimmers jumped into the pool to celebrate. Yes it's was a mistake and a minor one, but it's in the rules of the event, you break the rules you lose, simple as.
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racko
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RE: Olympic Spirit?

Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:15 am

Even when one would say that the mistake of the officials isn't important (which it is, imho), I still say that it is against the Olympic spirit to appeal against the victory and act as if Hoy and the others stole the victory (only speaking about France & the UK here, the US show at least some sportsmanship).

Comparing this incident with doping is the most ridiculous thing I've read about it so far. Doping is life-threatening, not only for the athele himself, but also for young kids doing his sport who see him as a role model and would be encouraged to take the drugs themselves. And of course, it gives you an advantage over the athletes.

I don't remember the incident with the US relay team well enough, but I think the decision was made because the waves of their jumps interfere other athletes still competing. And still, this decision (that I don't think is correct) was made by the judges out of their own decision, the Australian relay team did not protest against the result. This is what really makes me sick, trying to get a medal in this way.

[Edited 2004-08-22 20:25:32]
 
777236ER
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RE: Olympic Spirit?

Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:17 am

777...you are starting to get really boring...you are citing BRIT sources and BRIT officials (and the same all over again), they say the Germans made a fault...wow! never expected this!

And the Germans say, they have to accept it, because there is no other appellation court...which proves exactly what...?

WHAT are you trying to say? The same nonsense all over again? Please don't...I couldn't bear it...or I even might fall asleep!

The olympic world will have to live with the fact that the Brits and the Frogs STOLE 2 gold medals they do not deserve, because nobody, and certainly NEITHER YOU NOT YOUR PATHETIC SOURCE can answer that crucial question:
If she crossed the line, WHY didn't the clock start to take her time?

Well, I suppose there is in fact one answer: Because she didn't make a fault.

And as for that French "sportsman": Hey why don't come to Germany and have your frigging hymn and your lap of honour here? Thousands of Germans will stand up for you.....to open their flies and piss on you!!


This is plain insulting now. All I've done is to show that she did break the rules. All you talk about is how shit the BBC is, how wrong everyone is and how you want to piss on the French. And you talk about everyone else destroying the Olympic spirit?

She broke the rules, face it - everyone else has.
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LH526
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RE: Olympic Spirit?

Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:34 am

At least we germans have the pride of being the bst in this competition. Although the french and brits won the medal, all they got was a medal with shame, leaving every kind of proudness and sportive olympic spirit in it's wake.
Better get no medal with with pride proudness by knowing your run was THE BEST (way ahead of France and GB) instead of having the shame of fighting for your medal on the court for a much worse sportive show.

I have nothing against Brits and Frenchmen in general .. both are great folks & people ..
i'm just having something against these few individuals at the olympics

Many will see the medal-rank with different eyes now, they will see how far ahead germany is even without the two golds .. and they also will see the shameful Brits and French that fought for their "dirty" medal and yet are that far behind in the ranks.

Mario
LH526

[Edited 2004-08-22 20:41:15]
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MD-90
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RE: Olympic Spirit?

Mon Aug 23, 2004 4:51 am

This is plain insulting now.

ROTFLMAO!! 777 telling ANYONE that they're insulting...coming from him that's hilarious.


Anyway, yes she broke the rules, but the clock was inaccurate. If the clock had been run correctly, then she would deserve the penalty for going over the time limit, but since it wasn't, she deserves to keep the medal that is rightfully hers.
 
G-KIRAN
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RE: Olympic Spirit?

Mon Aug 23, 2004 4:57 am

Oh and should by chance Olivier le Page and that other sick F#@k read this...should I ever meet you face to face...I'll throw you on the ground and pi@s in yours!!!!

And to the Brits...you are now level with these cheating intrigating monkeys...what you always wanted to achieve in life!!! Congrats!!


Wonderful! Just shows how immature you are!

The olympic world will have to live with the fact that the Brits and the Frogs STOLE 2 gold medals they do not deserve, because nobody, and certainly NEITHER YOU NOT YOUR PATHETIC SOURCE can answer that crucial question:

And again!

And as for that French "sportsman": Hey why don't come to Germany and have your frigging hymn and your lap of honour here? Thousands of Germans will stand up for you.....to open their flies and piss on you!!

Well honestly.....

Flooding England AND France is a good idea...RIGHT NOW would be a good time...if you need help...just holler!

Shows how low you can go.....

Racko and Andreas, you are making fools out of yourselves. Just grow up and behave like decent people instead of toddlers with nappies on your heads. In sport you play by the rules. You can bend them, twist them all you may like, but you should never break them. I myself have been done in by what I thought at the time to be a mistake by the umpire. I never moaned and groaned even though I just needed an extra one run to go past 50 runs in a cricket match a few years ago. I could have sworn that the ball was not going to hit off-stump. The umpire thought otherwise and I had to go. Did I make a fuss of it? No. Did I sulk, rant and rave about it? No. Did I insult the umpire by saying that he was blind? No. I walked away and kept my dignity by putting it all behind me. Now as for this event, I have heard alot about it. I have no idea what the infringement is about, but the medals have been taken away from the Germans and so be it. That was the decision that was made. Just live by it and move on. Although as a consolation I am sure you both have given Germany two gold medals in the "ranting and raving duet" category. And as for the British being a nation of cheaters.....perhaps you should remember what country you come from. Especially the eastern side of it. Remember it is business, not personal.
 
777236ER
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RE: Olympic Spirit?

Mon Aug 23, 2004 6:02 am

Anyway, yes she broke the rules, but the clock was inaccurate. If the clock had been run correctly, then she would deserve the penalty for going over the time limit, but since it wasn't, she deserves to keep the medal that is rightfully hers.

Irrelevant. She crossed the line, end of.
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Andreas
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RE: Olympic Spirit?

Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:35 pm

All I read from our Brit members here just shows one thing: You cannot prove she made a mistake because she DIDN'T make one: The clock didn't start to count...just imagine Schu going on a fast lap...the clock doesn't start to count, Brawn tells him so, so he'll finish the lap slowly, thinking "ok, next lap will do it", and suddenly they tell him "hey, you're in last place, 10 seconds slower than the rest"... RIDICULOUS!


777 you sound like a petulant child...a very unpleasant one: Your source was one-sided and biased because it cites only Brit sources.
Ok discussion over, you are not capable of discussing but repeat the same nonsense all over again!

Gman: to compare Hoy and a doped Ben Johnson is the purest bullshit I ever heard...Johnson tried to achieve an advantage, Hoy did not, Johnsons made a big mistake, Hoy none at all...better think next time before posting!

G-KIRAN: Stealing 2 gold medals you do not deserve is a severe thing...just imagine it would have been the other way round: England, and not only the yellow press, would scream blue murder by now, mentioning WW2 and other lovely things...just think about it BEFORE talking about WHO is the sore loser here!

And as for standing up for the French competitors: You do that, I'll keep it in mind...so you think turning your back on Hoy and refuse to shake hands is ok and doesn't deserve a good and hard kick in the ass...well, suit yourself...says a lot more about yourself than it says about those get "echauffe" about it.
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gkirk
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RE: Olympic Spirit?

Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:41 pm

Everyone knows that its embarrassing to the Olympics if any German wins anything so, the result was rightly changed  Wink/being sarcastic  Laugh out loud
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Andreas
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RE: Olympic Spirit?

Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:46 pm

Kirkie...that coming from a Scot seems....not insulting at all, given your brilliant olympic/WC/EC track record Big grin Big grin Big grin


btw: How about that flooding? Are you prepared to go all the way?  Big grin
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sebolino
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RE: Olympic Spirit?

Mon Aug 23, 2004 6:09 pm

The reaction of Racko and Andreas shows very clearly how allies can turn into ennemies in no time (at least in people's mind).

Andreas:
And to the Brits...you are now level with these cheating intrigating monkeys

Oh oh, I see. You take revenge how you can. You are sounding lower class than you usually do.


That said, the verdict is perfectly valid. The rules are the rules, and you would have asked for exactly the same, if you had been in the same situation.
 
Banco
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RE: Olympic Spirit?

Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:12 pm

Hmmm, funny how not so long ago all the Germans were complaining at how the English didn't like the verdict of the referee in Euro 2004, and how we should just accept it and move on.

It seems to me that Hoy is desperately unfortunate, but did actually infringe the rules. I'm no three day eventing fan, so I can only go by the comments that a lot of people were making at the time. There was a lot of umming and ahhing, saying how it was rather a shame, but that crossing the line twice, for whatever reason, would be enough to get disqualified or penalised at a junior competition, let alone the Olympics.

She might have been the best rider on show, but she did break the rules. Live with it, and stop whingeing.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
LH526
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RE: Olympic Spirit?

Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:22 pm

The rules, the rules, the rules . Oh c'mon guys! I would have voted against germany as well if she made the accident in full knowledge. But as repeated over and over again, she had no idea she was wrong. She assured if everyhting is correct adter she went ghtrough the line the first time (That's the best she can do) The clock shows nothing hence leaving her in the belief everything is correct! Again, it would have been 100% her fault if the clock was running and she crossed the line again. However, the first crossing of the line was without any action taken by the judges or the clock.
Here the fault is to be searched within the greek judges. They missed the chance to disqualify her immediately.
Once in civil law class we had a case that could be matched with this one. If one is in the belief of having made a mistake and assures wether or not he did so and get's NO proof of fault, he is NOT to be sentenced in that very case! Period!

In respect to the other point about pride and proud ... refer to my post above.

Mario
LH526
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Andreas
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RE: Olympic Spirit?

Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:26 pm

Seb...I'm talking about the FRENCH EQUIPE!!!!! Not the French people...so for Christ's sake, calm down! As for the French equipe on the other hand...my opinion stands...I piss on them!

Banco: That's rubbish, utter rubbish, IF there was a mistake, it was one of the guys at the clock, and that is NOT the prob of the German equipe...Hoy did everything ok, she was fastest, she made the fewest mistakes on the track, the highest court of the sport gave HER the gold medal, CAS decided differently WITHOUT taking into account the...period!!

And your comparisons have been better in other cases...EC 2004 is totally invalid, because the referee was right, believe it or not, here on the other hand we do not talk about a split-second decision to be taken (which would have been IN FAVOUR of Germany anyway, since the clock didn't start to count). But hey, it's a gold medal, much better than fairplay, and who cares
a few weeks from now, right?

btw: I'll leave the whingeing to others who proved to be much better in this case...I'm more the straight revenge kind of guy!
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