travelin man
Posts: 3198
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 10:04 am

Great Britain Or United Kingdom?

Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:29 am

OK, I need to get this straight: Is it Great Britain or United Kingdom? I know at the Olympics its "GBR", and the British call themselves the "British" for a reason. But at my work we call it the "UK", and have hotels in the "UK".

What's the difference? I don't consider myself a stupid person, but I am confused by what to call your country. (I was in London for the past five days by the way, and I didn't think to ask anyone. Oh well.)
 
StevenUhl777
Posts: 3281
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 11:02 am

RE: Great Britain Or United Kingdom?

Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:41 am

I think "Great Britain" is the more common, popular usage. Why? Don't really know. Many just call it "England" as well. I interchange all 3, actually.

United Kingdom (more formal sounding, maybe the reason...?) is the correct term, as it represents the unity of all four kingdoms: Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales, and England. For those not in the know, the "Union Jack" is comprised of the flags of each kingdom, and when put together, you get the Union Jack.

Jolly good!  Big grin
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
travelin man
Posts: 3198
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 10:04 am

RE: Great Britain Or United Kingdom?

Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:58 am

Well, I know that there are four countries that make up GBR/UK -- England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland. I thought maybe it used to be called UK, and its changed to Great Britain because it's no longer a "Kingdom". But then I am confused as to why it is still called UK as in "FCUK".
 
JAL777
Posts: 2453
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 10:13 pm

RE: Great Britain Or United Kingdom?

Tue Aug 24, 2004 11:02 am

Great Britain is the name of the island where the countries of England, Scotland, and Wales are located.

United Kingdom is the name of the entire nation including Great Britain (England, Scotland, Wales) and Northern Ireland. I'm guessing United Kingdom also used to include all the British colonies in the past (e.g. Hong Kong).
 
travelin man
Posts: 3198
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 10:04 am

RE: Great Britain Or United Kingdom?

Tue Aug 24, 2004 11:14 am

So does that mean Northern Ireland has no Olympians, since the team is referred to as "Great Britain"? I suppose when the Brits wake up they'll clear this up...
 
bristolflyer
Posts: 2103
Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 1:35 am

RE: Great Britain Or United Kingdom?

Tue Aug 24, 2004 12:15 pm

'Great Britain' refers to England, Scotland & Wales. 'United Kingdom' refers to those three and N Ireland.

Hence on the front of the Passport: 'United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland'.

BF
Fortune favours the brave
 
WindowSeat
Posts: 1198
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2003 3:01 am

RE: Great Britain Or United Kingdom?

Tue Aug 24, 2004 1:15 pm


I think "Great Britain" is the more common, popular usage. Why? Don't really know. Many just call it "England" as well. I interchange all 3, actually.

Uh-huh. Try saying you're in England when you're in Glasgow or Edinburgh!


cheers




I'm all in favour of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with keyboards.
 
StevenUhl777
Posts: 3281
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 11:02 am

RE: Great Britain Or United Kingdom?

Tue Aug 24, 2004 1:27 pm

WindowSeat: Since I already identified in my earlier thread that I know the four individual kingdoms that make up UK, I'm also smart enough to know not to refer to Scotland or Wales or N. Ireland as just "England". Give me a little credit, ok?  Insane I was in Scotland a month ago, and didn't have any problems...I knew where I was.



And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
jasepl
Posts: 3499
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:15 pm

RE: Great Britain Or United Kingdom?

Tue Aug 24, 2004 4:09 pm

Great Britain = England, Scotland and Wales
United Kingdom = Great Britain + Northern Ireland

(Neither of these groupings include the Channel Islands or the Isle of Man.)

For those not in the know, the "Union Jack" is comprised of the flags of each kingdom, and when put together, you get the Union Jack

Actually, it's 3 flags that are combined: England, Scotland and Ireland. Wales never was and isn't today a kingdom. It is a principality.

I'm guessing United Kingdom also used to include all the British colonies in the past (e.g. Hong Kong).

The United Kingdom never included anything more than Great Britain and Ireland (in both united and divided form). All the other Crowns have always been separate, though vested in the same sovereign. The colonies collectively were the Empire and now the Commonwealth.

And yes, it can get very confusing, especially when sport is involved, because, depending on the sport, they send separate teams or a common one. But never a team for the "United Kingdom".
 
gkirk
Posts: 23346
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: Great Britain Or United Kingdom?

Tue Aug 24, 2004 5:14 pm

"Don't really know. Many just call it "England" as well. I interchange all 3, actually."

Not a good idea to say your in England when your actually up here in Scotland  Big grin
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
duke
Posts: 1167
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 1999 9:52 pm

RE: Great Britain Or United Kingdom?

Tue Aug 24, 2004 6:08 pm

So:

Official name of the state: The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (aren't the Channel Islands and Mann part of this?)

Shortened forms of the name fore everyday use: The United Kingdom, The UK, Great Britain, GBR, GB, Britain

The names of the 4 constituent countries/provinces/whatever (in alphabetical order): England, Northern Ireland, Wales, Scotland. NEVER call the country as a whole England, that's just plain wrong.
 
Gman94
Posts: 1167
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 2:56 am

RE: Great Britain Or United Kingdom?

Tue Aug 24, 2004 6:23 pm

I think most Brits either use Great Britain, Britain, England, Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland to describe where their from. Most people outside of Britain seem to use the UK or England to describe Britain which pisses of those Brits that aren't English.

I remember when I first put my details into a form on the internet and looking for Great Britain in the country list but it wasn't there, I then looked for England and that wasn't there either. After much scratching of my head I realised we were listed as the United Kingdom which I found very strange as I had never called my country by that name.
British Airways - The Way To Fly
 
toddy333
Posts: 77
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2004 5:19 am

RE: Great Britain Or United Kingdom?

Tue Aug 24, 2004 6:36 pm

just out of interest, when i am abroad and people ask me where im from i either say england or the UK, i dont know why i dont say britiain!
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: Great Britain Or United Kingdom?

Tue Aug 24, 2004 6:41 pm

You know, this came up as a question on the radio the other day, as to why we enter the Olympics as Great Britain and Northern Ireland (the last bit seems to get lopped off) rather than as the UK.

Apparently, the reason is that the United Kingdom is the political entity, defined solely by the four constituent countries. By using the Great Britain tag, we can effectively be "Great Britain and Northern Ireland, the Channel Islands, Gibraltar and the Isle of Man". Those islands are not part of the UK, and would otherwise be excluded from our team.

Case solved.  Big grin

She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
cragley
Posts: 391
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2004 6:09 pm

RE: Great Britain Or United Kingdom?

Tue Aug 24, 2004 8:01 pm



All you need to remember is Scotland  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Everything else is London.

Unless its the olympics and if you are living in england or from england, then you are called english. But if you are from Wales or Scotland, then you are British.

GRRRRR!

 
Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: Great Britain Or United Kingdom?

Tue Aug 24, 2004 8:27 pm

A lot of Scots say that, Cragley. It's the biggest load of crap you could ever hear. I've looked at the press for Kelly Holmes and the only ones to say she's English are American papers, everyone else refers to her as British. No-one ever said Seb Coe was English, or Steve Ovett, or Denise Lewis or anyone else.

That's the one thing about the Scottish chip on their shoulders that really pisses me off (most of it just makes me smile). It just isn't true and is evident of a ridiculous persecution complex. They're competing for the British team, end of story.

The only ones to ever break it down further are the Scots. So, the curling team are Scottish not British. You never, NEVER hear the English claim all the other medal winners as English, it just doesn't enter into it. Grow up.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
MAS777
Posts: 2757
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 7:40 am

RE: Great Britain Or United Kingdom?

Thu Aug 26, 2004 6:57 am

Frankly some of the answers here are shocking!!!
 
Tiger119
Posts: 1593
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 1:52 pm

RE: Great Britain Or United Kingdom?

Fri Aug 27, 2004 6:37 pm

"..........For those not in the know, the "Union Jack" is comprised of the flags of each kingdom, and when put together, you get the Union Jack."

- I would love to see a break down of the flags of the UK (the flags of Wales, Scotland, the flag of the Royal Family, etc). At sporting events (IE: The Open, Wimbledon, etc) for example, we occasionally see the Union Jack in the crowds and galleries and occasionally see a white flag with two red stripes, one vertical and one horizontal being waved by fans.

" I'm guessing United Kingdom also used to include all the British colonies in the past (e.g. Hong Kong)."

- What about the UK Virgin Islands, Bermuda and other islands in the Atlantic Ocean that still have ties to The UK?
Flying is the second greatest thrill known to mankind, landing is the first!
 
vc10
Posts: 1342
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2001 4:13 am

RE: Great Britain Or United Kingdom?

Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:51 pm

Tiger

You will find no inclusion of the Welsh flag in the union flag,as Wales was a conquered nation by the 13 th century.

I was told that the name United Kingdom was adopted at he end of WW2 so that the representaives of Britain would sit near the USA and USSR. Makes you look more powerfull than sitting next to Brazil or Botswanna etc
 
gkirk
Posts: 23346
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: Great Britain Or United Kingdom?

Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:04 pm

Banco, I'll agree with you to an extent. However a lot of the media do still say that English atheletes are English and not British (although correct, brings yup a reasonable thing)...should the UK break up football and Scotland, Walesd, England and N.Ireland send individual teams for the Olympics etc
I can guarantee you that the number of medals England win will be less than Scotland  Wink/being sarcastic
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: Great Britain Or United Kingdom?

Fri Aug 27, 2004 10:09 pm

...occasionally see a white flag with two red stripes, one vertical and one horizontal being waved by fans.

That's the cross of St George - the flag of England.

Kirkie, the thing is, I think a lot of Scots are hypersensitive, and don't notice when it's the other way around. At various points during the sailing and the cycling, I've heard the commentators say how it's been a good day/event/race for the Scots, and how a Scot has won this or that - and they have, good on 'em! That's fine, I have no problem with it whatsoever; but what really irritates me is how some really chippy people ignore this side of it and just concentrate on English this or that (remember how Colin Jackson was always referred to as the Welsh 110m hurdler?). It works both ways. They're English, Scottish, Northern Irish or Welsh. And they're British. Simple really.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
Catatonic
Posts: 1096
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 3:58 am

RE: Great Britain Or United Kingdom?

Sat Aug 28, 2004 12:05 am

I think "Great Britain" is the more common, popular usage. Why? Don't really know. Many just call it "England" as well. I interchange all 3, actually.

Try calling it all England in Wales or Scotland, Im sure you will learn a hard lesson!

United Kingdom (more formal sounding, maybe the reason...?) is the correct term, as it represents the unity of all four kingdoms: Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales, and England. For those not in the know, the "Union Jack" is comprised of the flags of each kingdom, and when put together, you get the Union Jack.

The union jack is a load of crap, show me where the welsh dragon is on the union jack? Show me where Wales is represented or the isle of man or Jersey, Guernsey, Gibraltar, isle of white, Falklands etc etc, its a load of English crap to keep the Scots sweet!!


[Edited 2004-08-27 17:07:36]
Equally Cursed and Blessed.
 
QANTASforever
Posts: 5794
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2001 6:03 am

RE: Great Britain Or United Kingdom?

Sat Aug 28, 2004 12:15 am

I always call it the United Kingdom.

I find it trite when a nation bestows upon itself the title 'Great'.
Not to say the UK isn't a great place, but I see it a little like Fox News calling itself 'Fair and Balanced' - a title that may be true, but if I walked around saying - "Hey, I'm QFF - I'm great" people would think I was the total opposite.

QFF
Fighting for the glory of the Australian Republic.
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: Great Britain Or United Kingdom?

Sat Aug 28, 2004 12:21 am

I find it trite when a nation bestows upon itself the title 'Great'.
Not to say the UK isn't a great place, but I see it a little like Fox News calling itself 'Fair and Balanced' - a title that may be true, but if I walked around saying - "Hey, I'm QFF - I'm great" people would think I was the total opposite.


A good point; what's so fantastic about Greater Manchester?
Your bone's got a little machine
 
flylondon
Posts: 385
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 12:37 am

RE: Great Britain Or United Kingdom?

Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:28 am

I find it trite when a nation bestows upon itself the title 'Great'.

Well seeing as that isn't the title of the nation then you really shouldn't find it trite.

Contrary to what has been posted here, the term Great Britain actually refers to the island on which the majority of England, Wales and Scotland lies. It does not include any of the Scottish Islands or anything other than the island itself, NOT any country or state.
 
mdsh00
Posts: 3968
Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 11:28 am

RE: Great Britain Or United Kingdom?

Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:40 am

I find it trite when a nation bestows upon itself the title 'Great'

I thought that the "great" referred to physical reach, as in "Greater Los Angeles" and not how the British view their country.
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
 
GDB
Posts: 12653
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: Great Britain Or United Kingdom?

Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:42 am

Catatonic, the Welsh uprising failed 600 years ago, get over it, not as if you don't have a flag anyway.
Unless you want to be like too many in Northern Ireland (and some in Scotland too) whose lives seemed to be defined by events in the distant past rather than living for today and looking to the future.

I think United Kingdom might have more to do with the act of union rather than anything to do with WW2, but hey, WW2 is probably the only history studied in depth nowadays!
 
travelin man
Posts: 3198
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 10:04 am

RE: Great Britain Or United Kingdom?

Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:54 am

So, to sum up:

Great Britain -- The geographical island upon which sits England, Wales, and Scotland
United Kingdom -- The political entity (i.e. the nation) that is governed by the Parliament in London

Correct? I guess it would be more difficult to say "I am a United Kingdomer" than it is to say "I am British".
 
MAS777
Posts: 2757
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 7:40 am

RE: Great Britain Or United Kingdom?

Sat Aug 28, 2004 7:25 pm

Some of the answers above are fantastic - RoFL!!!  Nuts
 
EGGD
Posts: 11880
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2001 12:01 am

RE: Great Britain Or United Kingdom?

Sat Aug 28, 2004 9:03 pm

I find it trite when a nation bestows upon itself the title 'Great'. Hehe, when I read this I did find it amusing.. After the stick Australians have been getting for their over-zealous 'supporting' of their country, it was funny that someone linked to Oz would come to this conclusion. Its terrible when another country tries to rise itself above the mighty Australia by naming itself great isn't it? Big grin
 
QANTASforever
Posts: 5794
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2001 6:03 am

RE: Great Britain Or United Kingdom?

Sat Aug 28, 2004 9:15 pm

EGGD - um, you're kinda stretching the argument a little - don't you think?  Big grin

To what 'over-zealous' support do you refer? I'm not sure exactly where you are coming from, but I speak for myself, and unless I specify otherwise - others do not speak for me. I've made quite clear that this is my individual opinion.

Its terrible when another country tries to rise itself above the mighty Australia by naming itself great isn't it?

Look, it's not like that at all. I find the name "United Kingdom" quite fair and self-explanatory. I'm just all for equality over superiority. As an Australian, I would rather be your equal than your superior.

QFF
Fighting for the glory of the Australian Republic.
 
silverfox
Posts: 1032
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2001 8:39 am

RE: Great Britain Or United Kingdom?

Sun Aug 29, 2004 5:29 am

Ok the correct answer.... Honest
and clarifications

Great Britain GEOGRAPHICAL consists of the mainland only of England Wales Scotland

United Kingdom POLITICAL consists of the above PLUS Northern Ireland AND all the offshore Islands eg IOM IOW Hebrides (Inner and Outer) Orkney and Shetlands And Scilly Isles

British Isles GEOGRAPHICAL is ALL of the above PLUS Eire

In the Olympics The Great Britain competitors are from the United Kingdom plus (and I am open to correction here) the Channel Islands
(just an aside the media have a funny quirk If a Scottish athlete wins they are British, if they lose suddenly they are Scottish)

In The Commonwealth Games, The IOM and The Channel Isles compete as separate 'nations' as do Wales, Scotland, England, and Northern Ireland

The National Flag is NOT the Union Jack It is The Union FLAG

It is known wrongly as the Union Jack as it is flown from the Jackstaff of Warships (there are are other versions of why it is known as the Union Jack

Wales Is a Principality NOT a Kingdom



Tony Blair is NOT King or President (except in his own mind)


Any more questions?


 
andz
Posts: 7626
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:49 pm

RE: Great Britain Or United Kingdom?

Sun Aug 29, 2004 2:29 pm

The names of the 4 constituent countries/provinces/whatever (in alphabetical order): England, Northern Ireland, Wales, Scotland.

Duke, I think you'll find S comes before W in the more commonly used alphabet.... Smile
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
Tiger119
Posts: 1593
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 1:52 pm

RE: Great Britain Or United Kingdom?

Sun Aug 29, 2004 7:29 pm

"just an aside the media have a funny quirk If a Scottish athlete wins they are British, if they lose suddenly they are Scottish"

- In addition to that, when an athlete is from Wales or Scotland, he or she is described as "British" but if he or she is from England, they are "English."


"That's the cross of St George - the flag of England."

"The National Flag is NOT the Union Jack It is The Union FLAG"

- I realize I get confused sometimes, but, what is the National flag? The one with the Cross of St George or The Union Flag? Is the flag with the Cross of St George just the flag for England and The Union Flag the flag from the entire United Kingdom? Being 40+ YOA I probably should know these things having our two countries being close friends, but I just have never known these things.
Flying is the second greatest thrill known to mankind, landing is the first!
 
gkirk
Posts: 23346
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: Great Britain Or United Kingdom?

Sun Aug 29, 2004 8:24 pm

A good point; what's so fantastic about Greater Manchester?

Its better than central Manchester?  Confused
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
User avatar
TupolevTu154
Posts: 1918
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 6:00 pm

RE: Great Britain Or United Kingdom?

Sun Aug 29, 2004 8:42 pm

The States
United States
United States Of America
America
U.S
U.S.A

Which one is it I wonder? Laugh out loud

Sorry couldn't resist!

TupolevTu154
 
Scotty
Posts: 1846
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 1999 10:51 pm

RE: Great Britain Or United Kingdom?

Tue Aug 31, 2004 12:58 am

There was a church minister on the island of Great Cumbrae who prayed every day for the islands of Great and Little Cumbrae (which are off the coast of Scotland) and the adjacent islands of Great Britain and Ireland.
 
silverfox
Posts: 1032
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2001 8:39 am

RE: Great Britain Or United Kingdom?

Tue Aug 31, 2004 5:08 am

Tiger119

The national flag of The UK is the Union Flag
Comprising of the Crosses of St George, St Patrick and St Andrew ( the patron saints of England Scotland and Ireland
Cross of St George ( White background Horizontal and vertical red stripes)
Cross of St Andrew ( Blue background diagonal white stripes)
Cross of St Patrick (White background red diagonal cross)

And is correctly flown when the broader white stripe nearest the flagpole is uppermost.
This page will show you
http://www.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/geography/unionjack7.html

It gets confusing when the Northern Irish flag is the flag of England with a St Davids cross at its centre in which is a hand. A crown surmounts this.
The Eire Flag is the Tricolour of Vertical Green White and Orange bands

Whilst there are separate football teams,(Eire and N Ireland) the rugby team is picked from both sides of the border. And the Gaelic games are played in both north and south.
In Fact If you get a chance watch Hurling and Gaelic Football Both fast moving and exciting games
Hurling is like both codes of Hockey (ice and field) and the football is a mixture of Aussie rules, Rugby, US football and football itself.
 
Scotty
Posts: 1846
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 1999 10:51 pm

RE: Great Britain Or United Kingdom?

Tue Aug 31, 2004 5:30 pm

The Irish or red saltire in the Union Flag should correctly be removed since it is the flag of 1807-1922 Ireland when it was part of the UK. The cross in the Northern Ireland flag is that of St. George and the hand is the Red Hand of Ulster, whch also appears in the Ulster provincial flag, the difference being that Northern Ireland, as part of the UK, is not coterminus with the province of Ulster, three of whose counties lie in the Irish Republic.

Also, when it comes to Scotland, although Shetland is a part of Scotland and the UK, it has its own flag, a white nordic cross on a blue ground, which is flown alongside the saltire and Union Flag on public buildings

Confused yet??
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: Great Britain Or United Kingdom?

Tue Aug 31, 2004 5:38 pm

Most Shetlanders I've met would be less than happy at being described as "part of Scotland", Scotty.  Big grin
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
gkirk
Posts: 23346
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: Great Britain Or United Kingdom?

Tue Aug 31, 2004 5:52 pm

Your correct Banco, besides the Shetlands are nearer Norway anyway  Big grin There all inbred up in those parts  Laugh out loud
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
prebennorholm
Posts: 6419
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 6:25 am

RE: Great Britain Or United Kingdom?

Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:50 am

Both UK and United Kingdom are abbreviations.

The full name of the nation is:
The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

And that in fact explains it all. UK is a much simpler abbreviation than TUKOGBANI.

Why the Olympic abbreviation is GBR and why they use oval GB stickers on their cars, that's beyond me. Here in Denmark it has been suggested that a GB sticker on a car means Griminal Bolice.

BTW, in Wales I bought an oval car sticker with CYM on it. CYM = Cymru = Wales in Welch language. They were quite widely used in the 90'es.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: aerlingus747, scbriml and 6 guests