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Aaron747
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Israeli Officials Plan More West Bank Settlements

Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:16 am

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/08/23/mideast/index.html

As many as 1500 housing units are now planned by officials seeking to pressure Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's disengagement plan into nonexistence.

Wonderful... Nuts
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Horus
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RE: Israeli Officials Plan More West Bank Settlements

Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:44 am

As sad as this my sound, I am not surprised as this is what one comes to expect unfortunately.

Horus

EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
jutes85
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RE: Israeli Officials Plan More West Bank Settlements

Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:58 am

Old News.

The Israeli's gotta live somewhere.
nothing
 
rjpieces
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RE: Israeli Officials Plan More West Bank Settleme

Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:46 am

It doesn't matter. The settlements are in areas that are to become part of Israel once the security fence is complete. If they were building settlements deep in the West Bank, in areas that Israel plans to give up in the near future, now that would be idiotic.

And besides, Sharon is only going forward with this to get the support of the Right wingers--He needs their support to pull out of Gaza and most of the WB.

Remeber that Sharon will always be a military general. He will find a way, any way, to accomplish his goals, as he ALWAYS has.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
damirc
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RE: Israeli Officials Plan More West Bank Settlements

Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:36 pm

The Israeli's gotta live somewhere.

So what if the land is currently Palestinian. It's just more landgrab. Come on - can you really be so unrealistic and claim that this is legally and morally defensible?

It doesn't matter. The settlements are in areas that are to become part of Israel once the security fence is complete.

And that currently are not a part of Israel - right?

D.
 
rjpieces
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RE: Israeli Officials Plan More West Bank Settleme

Wed Aug 25, 2004 1:02 pm

So what if the land is currently Palestinian. It's just more landgrab. Come on - can you really be so unrealistic and claim that this is legally and morally defensible?

Absolutely. The land is not Palestinian. It is disputed. Why not build more houses in settlements that Israel has no intention of getting rid of, like the 1,001 houses Israel announced the other day? Even President Bush has anckowledged that Israel will not give up these settlements--It is as unrealistic a goal as Israel giving up Jerusalem.

I seriously doubt the houses mentioned in the article above will be built though. It is most likely a political move by Sharon. As I said above, Israel would be dammed stupid to build new settlements deep in the West Bank, since they are planning on pulling out. I'll be surprised if Israel builds these houses just to abandon them soon after.

And that currently are not a part of Israel - right?

It is a disputed territory. No different than many of the territorial disputes that exist in this world. Even Resolution 242 says that final agreements will likely see an adjustment of borders. Only Israel has to decide things by themselves, since Palestinians are unable/unwilling to compromise. The security fence will establish what will likely become the final border with the Palestinains--Israel will be through with them, the Palestinians will no longer be able to attack Israel, and there will be "peace". You and other "Pro-peace" people should be happy as your long awaited "peace" will soon be achieved.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
rjpieces
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RE: Israeli Officials Plan More West Bank Settleme

Wed Aug 25, 2004 1:05 pm

I was mistaken in Reply 3. The settlements in the article above are not in areas that will be under the blanket of the security fence. I was thinking of the 1,001 houses announced the other day.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
rjpieces
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RE: Israeli Officials Plan More West Bank Settleme

Wed Aug 25, 2004 1:42 pm

Oh, and since we are on this topic, here is a good excerpt.

"I was shocked to see President Jimmy Carter walk up to [Michael] Moore in front of a gargantuan television audience and give him a warm handshake and then sit next to him for the duration of Bill Clinton's speech to the convention," Jewish rabbi, talk show host, columnist and author Shmuley Boteach wrote in The Jerusalem Post July 28.

Boteach, a former rabbi to Jewish students at Oxford University, while doing his radio show from Boston's Fleet Center, "found myself sitting 10 feet from Michael Moore. He was chatting with journalists, so I decided to ask if he would agree to be a guest on my radio show. I wanted to debate him about his Bush-hating Fahrenheit 9/11. But when he saw me approaching, he dismissed me with a single, condescending flick of his finger as if I were a bug crawling up his arm."

Boteach wondered if Moore's attitude "had something to do with my yarmulke and beard" or his "hatred of Israel," as Boteach put it, evidenced when Moore identified Israel as one of the three "epicenters of evil" in the world in a New York Times article in June.

A few moments later, Boteach took note of the embrace between the former president and the raging filmmaker.

"Here was a former president lending his stature to a man who wrote on his Web site last April that America brings immeasurable misery and sadness to the world," Boteach wrote in his Jerusalem Post column. "... Supporters of Israel need to question whether they wish to support a party that honors men like these -- Moore was positively mobbed by the Democrats wherever he went -- and whose presidential candidate, John Kerry, said last year that he might send Jimmy Carter to the Middle East as his personal envoy."

Boteach wrote that he fears "the increasing anti-war posture of the Democratic Party ... will ultimately turn against Israel."

"America is hated by the nations of the world almost entirely due to its support of Israel and the war in Iraq," the rabbi continued. "The United States is the great champion of Israel and is therefore loathed by a world that despises the Jewish state. Likewise, the U.S. has incurred the wrath of the world by refusing to turn a blind eye toward Arab tyranny as embodied in Saddam Hussein.

"When Democratic Party leaders demand that George Bush be dumped so that America can be loved again by the French and the Germans, they are well aware that the only way that's going to happen is by a radical change in American foreign policy. That would take us back to Bill Clinton's days, when America was neutral on the Arab-Israeli conflict and when it largely turned a blind eye to Arab tyranny. ...

"The Democratic Party would have us believe that there is something wrong in having the whole world oppose you. But the Jews have long known that there is honor in it as long as you are right and they are wrong," Boteach wrote. "When all the world closes its eyes to slaughter and tyranny, Winston Churchill taught us in his opposition to Britain's policy of appeasement that the noble dare not close their eyes as well -- even if it means losing the 'respect' of the world."
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
QIguy24
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RE: Israeli Officials Plan More West Bank Settlements

Wed Aug 25, 2004 1:49 pm

I wanted to stay neutral in threads like this. And I will try to stay as neutral as possible.

Wasn't it just about a half a year ago Sharon told the whole world that he wanted to remove settlements, just to show his willingnes in the peace process?
I can't see why he build new than. Isn't it a little bit of Flip Flopping?
 
rjpieces
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RE: Israeli Officials Plan More West Bank Settleme

Wed Aug 25, 2004 2:12 pm

Wasn't it just about a half a year ago Sharon told the whole world that he wanted to remove settlements, just to show his willingnes in the peace process?
I can't see why he build new than. Isn't it a little bit of Flip Flopping?


It is politics. Many rightwing Jews do not want to back down in the face of terror; many of them see a religious connection to the land. Sharon needs broad support for his plans to pullout; This plan for new housing should quiet their fears....When in reality the houses will most likely never be built. Many of them recognize this as a political move and are complaining.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
QIguy24
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RE: Israeli Officials Plan More West Bank Settlements

Wed Aug 25, 2004 2:24 pm

Rj,
I know it's politics. And I agree with you on this point. I just think it a drastic step to take. It has really pissed of the arab world. And especially since the US has granted Sharons will. I'm afraid that this will breed more terror against the US.
The US were neutral about settlements before, because they knew it could damage the peace process.
 
rjpieces
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RE: Israeli Officials Plan More West Bank Settleme

Wed Aug 25, 2004 2:48 pm

It has really pissed of the arab world.

I challenge you to name one action of Israel's that hasn't pissed off the Arab world!  Smile

I'm afraid that this will breed more terror against the US.

I never buy this theory. Because if you subscribe to it, then every possible action can breed terrorists. If a person is willing to become a terrorist, I seriously doubt one thing like this will be the deciding factor for them.

The US were neutral about settlements before, because they knew it could damage the peace process.

The US isn't neutral about settlements. We support Israel's plan to pull out of most of the settlements while retaining a few; thus removing Israeli prescence from most of the disputed territories.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
QIguy24
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RE: Israeli Officials Plan More West Bank Settlements

Wed Aug 25, 2004 3:02 pm

Hehe....  Smile

I challenge you to name one action of Israel's that hasn't pissed off the Arab world!

Well Ok, It will be very difficult. I have to capitulate on that one Big grin

I never buy this theory. Because if you subscribe to it, then every possible action can breed terrorists. If a person is willing to become a terrorist, I seriously doubt one thing like this will be the deciding factor for them.

Everything can breed terrorists unfortunately. And I believe that things like this makes the Palestinians even more depressed. And more people will open their eyes and become terrorist to support their cause.

The US isn't neutral about settlements. We support Israel's plan to pull out of most of the settlements while retaining a few; thus removing Israeli presence from most of the disputed territories.

The US has been neutral in this matter until now. That is why it has pissed so many Arabs and Palestinians off.
The reason why the US has been neutral is because they know it would damage the peace process.

 
rjpieces
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RE: Israeli Officials Plan More West Bank Settleme

Wed Aug 25, 2004 3:22 pm

Everything can breed terrorists unfortunately.

There you go.

And I believe that things like this makes the Palestinians even more depressed. And more people will open their eyes and become terrorist to support their cause.

There is a steady lineup of Palestinians willing to become terrorists--Israel's day to day actions will for the most part not have an effect on that. Even when "peace" was close in the early 90s, there were still tons of terrorist bombings.

The US has been neutral in this matter until now. That is why it has pissed so many Arabs and Palestinians off.
The reason why the US has been neutral is because they know it would damage the peace process.


What are you talking about here? How has the US been neutral in your opinion?

Regards.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
QIguy24
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RE: Israeli Officials Plan More West Bank Settlements

Wed Aug 25, 2004 3:38 pm

Rj,

I'm talking about what I'm reading in books and newspapers  Smile
The US has been very careful when talking about the settlements in public.
In that way they have been neutral. They have been neutral to the press. But everyone knows they aren't neutral. That's what I mean. It's just so early over here I'm having problems to express myself.  Big grin

 
OD720
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RE: Israeli Officials Plan More West Bank Settlements

Wed Aug 25, 2004 3:50 pm

If they attempt to fight back to the settlement activities, they will be automatically called terrorists and their homes will be bulldozed.
 
Scorpio
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RE: Israeli Officials Plan More West Bank Settlements

Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:15 pm

...and this is why there will never be peace in the Middle East.

Can't say i'm surprised to see Rjpieces yet again seeing no problems with it. He never sees ANY problems with ANYthing Israel does.

And no, Rjpieces, I'm not entering into a discussion on this with you. I've seen the pathetic way in which you discuss these things in a previous thread and you'll just act that way again: you'll twist my words so that they suit your argument, you'll put words in my mouth, and ignore me when I set the record straight. Not playing that game again.
 
bill142
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RE: Israeli Officials Plan More West Bank Settlements

Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:29 pm

...and this is why there will never be peace in the Middle East.

From where I sit it seems that they don't want peace. They've had many opportunities which all seem to go down the drain.

 
Schoenorama
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RE: Israeli Officials Plan More West Bank Settleme

Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:53 pm

Finally, some good news from Israel:

"Israel Urged to Apply Geneva Convention to West Bank and Gaza


Israel's attorney general is urging the government to apply an international convention governing the treatment of civilians in occupied territory to Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

His recommendation says the government should "thoroughly examine" the possibility of applying the Fourth Geneva Convention to those areas.

Israel has refused to apply the convention to the West Bank or Gaza, arguing that they were not sovereign territories before their capture in the 1967 war. "


http://www.voanews.com/article.cfm?objectID=4AB1B079-48E5-45F7-99BBD8AD9C8ADFA8

Now we all know from whom Bush copied his selective application of the Geneva Conventions.
Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
 
rjpieces
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RE: Israeli Officials Plan More West Bank Settleme

Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:51 am

...and this is why there will never be peace in the Middle East.

And your reason for why there wasn't peace for the last 60 years?

Can't say i'm surprised to see Rjpieces yet again seeing no problems with it. He never sees ANY problems with ANYthing Israel does.

Yo scorpmister, did you read Reply 3 and 5? In both, I said Israel would be dumb to build new houses deep in the West Bank. Of course I'm forgetting that all the problems are Israel's fault, right?

and ignore me when I set the record straight. Not playing that game again.

You were the one who stopped responding when your fairy, terrorist appeasing arguments ran dry dear......
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
kl911
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RE: Israeli Officials Plan More West Bank Settlements

Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:55 am

''''As many as 1500 housing units are now planned by officials seeking to pressure Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's disengagement plan into nonexistence.'''

Perfect news! And with me are many Dutch people who will show their support! The Dutch-Israeli relationship is very strong. Let's keep it that way.

KL911
 
Scorpio
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RE: Israeli Officials Plan More West Bank Settlements

Thu Aug 26, 2004 5:08 am

Of course I'm forgetting that all the problems are Israel's fault, right?

See what I meant with the 'putting words into my mouth' part?

You were the one who stopped responding

The fact that you still don't seem to get why I stopped responding to that thread speaks volumes of just HOW dense you are.

your fairy, terrorist appeasing arguments ran dry dear......

And here, ladies and gentlemen, we then find a beautiful illustration of the OTHER point I made in my previous post, the "twist my words so that they suit your argument" as well as the "and ignore me when I set the record straight" part.

Oh, in case you are still wondering WHY I stopped responding to that thread: THIS is why^^.

So thank you once again, Rjpieces, for illustrating to us all here just WHY I don't enter into a discussion with you on this subject anymore.

It took you just one post to illustrate every single reason I mentioned before. That's got to be a record.
 
Horus
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RE: Israeli Officials Plan More West Bank Settlements

Thu Aug 26, 2004 5:51 am

Don't worry Scorpio, most of the members of A.net know exactly whats happening. Tactics of twisting words are common with certian members to try to discredit others.

Horus


EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
kl911
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RE: Israeli Officials Plan More West Bank Settlements

Thu Aug 26, 2004 6:24 am

Is it Israels fault that attacks were launched against them from the West bank? NO.

After the 2nd worldwar Russia occupied Eastern Germany, and Israel occupied the Westbank after their war. That's the price you pay for starting the war. The US is occupying Iraq, same story.

KL911
 
rjpieces
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RE: Israeli Officials Plan More West Bank Settleme

Thu Aug 26, 2004 6:33 am

Don't worry Horus. For everyone one of you lunatics, there are 3 more willing to do your dirty work. And at least they have the balls to say what they feel, that Israel doesn't have a right to exist. So Horus, it's been a few months, does Israel have a right to exist?
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
Scorpio
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RE: Israeli Officials Plan More West Bank Settlements

Thu Aug 26, 2004 6:34 am

LOL! Not sure how I'm supposed to read your last post, KL911: tongue planted firmly in cheek or not?
 
kl911
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RE: Israeli Officials Plan More West Bank Settlements

Thu Aug 26, 2004 6:36 am

'''So Horus, it's been a few months, does Israel have a right to exist?'''

Ofcourse! It's decided by the UN, so it's a majority of this planet, that Israel can excist. ( And no one recognizes a palestinian state, wonder why.........)
 
rjpieces
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RE: Israeli Officials Plan More West Bank Settleme

Thu Aug 26, 2004 6:42 am

KI911, your intentions are good but you are about to start a flamewar. I suggest waiting for another one to break out and participating there, rather than starting a new one.

But what the heck....

and Israel occupied the Westbank after their war. That's the price you pay for starting the war.

Absolutely. But most of the world holds Israel to a special standard. That is why Israel ignores them most of the time.

Ofcourse! It's decided by the UN, so it's a majority of this planet, that Israel can excist. ( And no one recognizes a palestinian state, wonder why.........)

I'm not sure if you have followed these threads before. Horus claims to want peace, but he is saddened when Hamas members are killed and despite several users asking him if Israel has a right to exist, he has not answered. Because everyone knows what his answer will be; And that is the problem in the Middle East, not anything Israel is doing.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
kl911
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RE: Israeli Officials Plan More West Bank Settlements

Thu Aug 26, 2004 6:48 am

'''saddened when Hamas members are killed'''

How can any ' normal' person support terrorists after 9/11? I don't get it. If they stop attacking Israel, Israel will stop attacking them. Simple. Then there's peace. There's enough space in Jordan and Lebanon for the palestinians to live in between their own people. A mix will never work.

KL911
 
rjpieces
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RE: Israeli Officials Plan More West Bank Settleme

Thu Aug 26, 2004 7:08 am

How can any ' normal' person support terrorists after 9/11?

What is even funnier is how these same members will blast terrorists who target America; Yet they lavish praise on those who attack Israel.

And you know what they say, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

If they stop attacking Israel, Israel will stop attacking them.

If they stop attacking Israel, they lose the war they started 60 years ago.

There's enough space in Jordan and Lebanon for the palestinians to live in between their own people.

How about ANYWHERE in the rest of the Arab world? Although yes, Egypt and Jordan are MORE than enough.

A mix will never work.

Agreed. That is why bulding a fence and saying good riddances is the best solution.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
Scorpio
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RE: Israeli Officials Plan More West Bank Settlements

Thu Aug 26, 2004 7:52 am

KL911,

I wish the situation was as simplistic as you seem to think. Unfortunately it isn't.

Rjpieces, just clarify one thing for me:

Yet they lavish praise on those who attack Israel.

Do these 'same members', in your opinion, include me? Don't answer with another question, just answer with a simple yes or no.

[Edited 2004-08-26 00:58:03]
 
kl911
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RE: Israeli Officials Plan More West Bank Settlements

Thu Aug 26, 2004 7:55 am

Rjpieces,

Do you have any idea why other forum members here still want an other solution? A solution that didn't work the last 60 years, and did cost a lot of innocent Israeli women and childrens life's. All the best to them and may they live in peace soon.

KL911
 
rjpieces
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RE: Israeli Officials Plan More West Bank Settleme

Thu Aug 26, 2004 7:56 am

Do these 'same members', in you opinion, include me? Don't answer with another question, just answer with a simple yes or no.

No.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
Scorpio
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RE: Israeli Officials Plan More West Bank Settlements

Thu Aug 26, 2004 8:09 am

No.

OK... At least something we agree on then. This having been said, and with you being in an honest mood and all, why did you then insist on twisting my words, putting other words in my mouth and blatantly ignoring the million times I told you that your interpretation of my words was wrong, first in a friendly, later a *slightly* more firm way? Please answer that question for me.

(For those wondering why I keep dragging this issue on: I find it irritating as hell when people do what Rjpieces did to me both in here and in the other discussion, because it completely kills any notion of a real discussion, because one of the parties completey disregards one of the most important parts of the opponent's argument. Not to mention the fact that I don't have to take it when a kid has the audacity to call me a terrorist-hugger).
 
kl911
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RE: Israeli Officials Plan More West Bank Settlements

Thu Aug 26, 2004 8:36 am

Scorpio,

''Not to mention the fact that I don't have to take it when a kid has the audacity to call me a terrorist-hugger'''

Kid? You're not that old either...  Laugh out loud
 
rjpieces
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RE: Israeli Officials Plan More West Bank Settleme

Thu Aug 26, 2004 11:13 am

OK... At least something we agree on then. This having been said, and with you being in an honest mood and all, why did you then insist on twisting my words, putting other words in my mouth and blatantly ignoring the million times I told you that your interpretation of my words was wrong, first in a friendly, later a *slightly* more firm way? Please answer that question for me.

I don't think I twisted your words around. You said the ways you think we should deal with terrorism and I responded to that.

Not to mention the fact that I don't have to take it when a kid has the audacity to call me a terrorist-hugger).

I DON'T HAVE TO TAKE SOME EURO chap teling me that we should be change US policy rather than deal directly with the terrorists. And since you will probably say I am twisting your words around, I'll beat you to it.

But when it comes down to it, the essence of everything you said was that the burden of change is on the US. Not only is that totally wrong; it has dangerous implications.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
DC10GUY
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RE: Israeli Officials Plan More West Bank Settlements

Thu Aug 26, 2004 11:21 am

Good for them. I support Israel 110%. The Palestinians are going to continue trying to kill the Jews whether they build the settlement or not. Here's some news for the Arabs .... THE JEWS ARE THERE TO STAY !!! And YOU CAN"T MAKE THEM LEAVE.
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
rjpieces
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RE: Israeli Officials Plan More West Bank Settleme

Thu Aug 26, 2004 11:33 am

Good for them. I support Israel 110%. The Palestinians are going to continue trying to kill the Jews whether they build the settlement or not. Here's some news for the Arabs .... THE JEWS ARE THERE TO STAY !!! And YOU CAN"T MAKE THEM LEAVE.

And people wonder why America is the champion of Israel--Americans, of all faiths, are supportive of the little country that fights for its life and soul daily.

And yes DC-10 guy, Jesus was a liberal Jew!
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
DC10GUY
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RE: Israeli Officials Plan More West Bank Settlements

Thu Aug 26, 2004 11:52 am

I admit that before 9/11 I was pretty critical of the Israel's. I still supported their right to be in Israel, but I thought that they where a little heavy handed with the way they treated the Arabs. I think the whole world can see why the do what they do ...Now. God bless Israel !!! And thank you for fighting terrorism at its source.
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
rjpieces
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RE: Israeli Officials Plan More West Bank Settleme

Thu Aug 26, 2004 11:59 am

I admit that before 9/11 I was pretty critical of the Israel's. I still supported their right to be in Israel, but I thought that they where a little heavy handed with the way they treated the Arabs.

A lot of Americans changed their opinion of Israel after 9/11. Could you imagine if the whole world called on America not to respond when it was attacked? Could you imagine if the whole world condemned us every time we responded? I've also found that many Americans envy the way Israel is able to deal with terrorists--Killing their leaders. I only wish the US could murder every Al Qaeda leader as easily as Israel murders Hamas leaders.

Now Americans know just how crazy radical Arabs are--And we have answered the call to respond to these maniacs.

I think the whole world can see why the do what they do ...Now. God bless Israel !!! And thank you for fighting terrorism at its source.

I second that. The US can't win the war on terror without defeating the same forces that seek Israel's destruction. That is yet another explanation for the strong relationship between the US and Israel.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
DC10GUY
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RE: Israeli Officials Plan More West Bank Settlements

Thu Aug 26, 2004 12:10 pm

Very true my friend. Its a fight between good and evil. If there is any doubt that the Israelis are the good guys ask yourself this ... Israel can kill every Arab in the middle east right know but hasn't .....Why ??? World the Arabs spare the Jews if they could ???
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
rjpieces
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RE: Israeli Officials Plan More West Bank Settleme

Thu Aug 26, 2004 12:26 pm

Very true my friend. Its a fight between good and evil.

It is indeed. You might find this excerpt interesting:

"America is hated by the nations of the world almost entirely due to its support of Israel and the war in Iraq," the rabbi continued. "The United States is the great champion of Israel and is therefore loathed by a world that despises the Jewish state. Likewise, the U.S. has incurred the wrath of the world by refusing to turn a blind eye toward Arab tyranny as embodied in Saddam Hussein.

"When Democratic Party leaders demand that George Bush be dumped so that America can be loved again by the French and the Germans, they are well aware that the only way that's going to happen is by a radical change in American foreign policy. That would take us back to Bill Clinton's days, when America was neutral on the Arab-Israeli conflict and when it largely turned a blind eye to Arab tyranny. ...

"The Democratic Party would have us believe that there is something wrong in having the whole world oppose you. But the Jews have long known that there is honor in it as long as you are right and they are wrong," Boteach wrote. "When all the world closes its eyes to slaughter and tyranny, Winston Churchill taught us in his opposition to Britain's policy of appeasement that the noble dare not close their eyes as well -- even if it means losing the 'respect' of the world."





If there is any doubt that the Israelis are the good guys ask yourself this ... Israel can kill every Arab in the middle east right know but hasn't .....Why ??? World the Arabs spare the Jews if they could ???

Absolutely valid point. I'd love to hear Scorpio or some Arab members answer this.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
DC10GUY
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RE: Israeli Officials Plan More West Bank Settlements

Thu Aug 26, 2004 12:38 pm

"That would take us back to Bill Clinton's days, when America was neutral on the Arab-Israeli conflict and when it largely turned a blind eye to Arab tyranny." ....... Pre 9/11 I would still agree with the Jimmy Carter/ Bill Clinton attempts to bring peace to the region. I would not trust the current republican oil man to run to Israel's side at the cost of losing Arab oil.

Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
rjpieces
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RE: Israeli Officials Plan More West Bank Settleme

Thu Aug 26, 2004 12:43 pm

Pre 9/11 I would still agree with the Jimmy Carter/ Bill Clinton attempts to bring peace to the region.

It has been proven not to work unfortunately.

I would not trust the current republican oil man to run to Israel's side at the cost of losing Arab oil.

Actually, Bush is widely considered the most pro-Israeli President the US has ever had. Bush is also an evangelical Christian, so he is supposedly personally an ardent Zionist. Not to mention that millions of his constituents, especially on the Christian right, are fanatically pro-Israeli.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
DC10GUY
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RE: Israeli Officials Plan More West Bank Settlements

Thu Aug 26, 2004 12:50 pm

Well I'm pro-Isreal and I'm a left wing democrat. I will give Bush credit for not continuing talks with Arafat. That terrorist should have been put away years ago.
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
Scorpio
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RE: Israeli Officials Plan More West Bank Settlements

Thu Aug 26, 2004 5:29 pm

Rjpieces,

I don't think I twisted your words around.

Well you did. Repeatedly. And knowingly.

You said the ways you think we should deal with terrorism and I responded to that.

...by putting words in my mouth that I never said, and thus building your 'case' against me on false 'accusations'.

I DON'T HAVE TO TAKE SOME EURO chap teling me that we should be change US policy rather than deal directly with the terrorists.

Hit a nerve there, didn't I? Good, that was the idea. Now you know how I feel after reading any of your posts directed at me, when they YET AGAIN state the same bullshit ASSumptions. Even in the sentence I just quoted.

that we should be change US policy rather than deal directly with the terrorists.

I don't know where you keep getting this crap, but I would like to settle this once and for all. Here's the deal:

-you tell me where exactly it is that I said that I would NOT want to deal directly with the terrorists by bringing them to justice. You made this claim that that is what I want, you provide the proof to back it up. If you do that, I will not bother you again, and will stop accusing you of twisting my words.

-now, if you DON'T manage to do that, I want YOU to stop making this claim that I want to be all 'fuzzy' with the terrorists.

-of course, when I say 'prove it' I'm talking QUOTES. Not your twisted 'interpretation' of what I said, but the actual quotes. Right here for all to see.

There, sounds like a fair deal, doesn't it? I intend fully to stick to my part of the deal should you be able to prove your accusations (which I won't have to anyway, since I'm confident you won't be able to provide a single shred of proof). I can only hope the same from you.
 
tbar220
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RE: Israeli Officials Plan More West Bank Settlements

Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:53 am

One way to look at this and the division of Jerusalem is to go back to the war in 1967. Israel won that war fair and square, with its Arab neighbors openly declaring that their goal was the destruction of Israel. Egypt made the first act of war against Israel by closing the Straits of Tiran and forcing the removal of UN troops from Sinai. While Israel was at war with Egypt, they told Jordan to stay out of the war and that they wouldn't attack them. Jordan then proceeded to attack Israel by shelling Jerusalem and moving tank forces into Israel. Israel wins the war of self defense and captures territory.

So the question is, why does Israel want or need this territory? In the case of Sinai, the only reason they wanted Sinai was to have a lasting peace deal with the Egyptians, which they got in a land for peace deal. The Golan they wanted because since Israel's creation, Syrian forces had been indiscriminately shelling Israeli farms and cities from the Golan Heights. And for the West Bank, there was a historical connection and if it came to it, they wanted a land for peace deal with Jordan.

So now comes the question, why should Israel be required to go back to its pre 1967 borders? What did so many Israeli soldiers die for over the years if they're forced to move back to those borders without a peace? As far as I see it, as long as the Palestinians support terror and as long as the Arab nations fund it and support it, there should be no withdrawal from the West Bank. And at the rate that it is happening, the Palestinians are going to lose land that they could have had four years ago with the foiled peace plan.

For Israel to give up land with no guarantee for peace is a disaster and a huge policy mistake as far as I see it.
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jutes85
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RE: Israeli Officials Plan More West Bank Settlements

Fri Aug 27, 2004 6:48 am

Scorpio,

Take it easy.

For Israel to give up land with no guarantee for peace is a disaster and a huge policy mistake as far as I see it.

Israel will be much more relaxed when the wall is completed. They don't need unnecessary troops to be deployed in the WB and GS. If the Palistinians start to stir-up crap again, the IDF will move in and regain order. As far as the land goes, Israel does not need it at the moment.
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rjpieces
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RE: Israeli Officials Plan More West Bank Settlements

Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:20 am

Well you did. Repeatedly. And knowingly.

Yawn.

Scorpio darling,

You never directly said "Let's get fuzzy with Osama". I will be more than happy to say it right here, for all to read, that you never directly said that. Just like some of our Arab members never directly say "I hate those Jews". But as I mentioned, your method for dealing with terrorism, of which you wrote many posts on, is equal to "cuddle and curing" terrorists. So as long as you maintain that the US is responsible for all the evil in the Middle East, and that Israel policy is to blame for current tensions in the Middle East, and other such crap that you write, I will still be accusing you of trying to solve terrorism by being fuzzy with terrorists.

If you'd like, feel free to copy and paste your "terrorism manual" here.

So now comes the question, why should Israel be required to go back to its pre 1967 borders? What did so many Israeli soldiers die for over the years if they're forced to move back to those borders without a peace?

They shouldn't, and they won't ever return to 1967 borders. Jerusalem will always remain the undivided capital of Israel.

As far as I see it, as long as the Palestinians support terror and as long as the Arab nations fund it and support it, there should be no withdrawal from the West Bank. And at the rate that it is happening, the Palestinians are going to lose land that they could have had four years ago with the foiled peace plan.

Disagree with you here. Israel should, and is in the process of, washing its hand from the Palestinians. Let's see how the Palestinians do once Israel pulls out and puts up the security fence. The security fence is wonderful because it allows Israel to pretty much decide its border. Thus, Israel gets the maximum security out of this "peace" deal, and since the Palestinains refuse to compromise, they will be forcefed crap.

I think you put too much faith in the "Land for peace" process. While yes, Israel gave up the Sinai and signed peace with Egypt, it was and is in no way a real peace. There will never be peace between Arabs and Israelis. Not in this lifetime anyway. All we can hope for, and practically achieve, is a halting of hostilities. Giving up the Sinai achieved this with Egypt. Building the security fence will achieve it with the Palestinians.

Israel will be much more relaxed when the wall is completed.

The fence is only partially built and Israel is much safer already. That just goes to prove how effective the fence is. And you wonder why Arabs are so opposed to it? It is blocking their main method for killing Jews.

If the Palistinians start to stir-up crap again, the IDF will move in and regain order.

It will be much harder for the Palestinians to stir up crap, both physically and on the world stage. But if they do, it will just go to show the world (as if it needs evidence of this) the true intentions of the Palestinians--Not to live in peace, but to destroy Israel.

And yes, if they do start trouble, Israel has the worlds second largest fleet of F-16s that are more than capable of bombing the shit out of those "peace loving" individuals.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
rjpieces
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RE: Israeli Officials Plan More West Bank Settlements

Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:24 am

And I'd also like to add that I don't believe you are a terrorist, or a terrorist sympathizer in any sense of the word. I do believe that your method is focused on trying to cure the terrorists, usually at the expense of the US or Israel; I believe that is the policy of many European countries.

In NO way does this mean Europeans, you and others, are terrorists. I do apologize if it came off that way.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"

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