yhmfan
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Just Got Two Kittens....

Sun Aug 29, 2004 5:40 am

We just adopted two kittens, both female. They are seven weeks old and of mixed breed.
They will be neutered when they are 6 months old but I was wondering what everyone thinks of declawing the front paws?
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you
 
prosa
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RE: Just Got Two Kittens....

Sun Aug 29, 2004 5:42 am

Declawing is basically equivalent to partial finger amputation in humans. It should be illegal.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
jutes85
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RE: Just Got Two Kittens....

Sun Aug 29, 2004 5:43 am

Are they sisters?

I wouldn't recommend declawing, just trim them about once a month and it'll be fine. We have two cats and their claws have never been a problem. Besides, how are they supposed to catch mice and birds without claws?  Smile
nothing
 
ndebelebev
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RE: Just Got Two Kittens....

Sun Aug 29, 2004 5:44 am

We never did with our cats. As they get older they learn how to retract them anyhow. Besides they'll not be able to climb etc when the get older if you do.

Enjoy your cats.

Regards

Ndebelebev

Her Pose Is That Of Someone... Who Knows It All And Is In Total Control Of Her World... Little Does She Know...
 
wietse
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RE: Just Got Two Kittens....

Sun Aug 29, 2004 5:45 am

True, trim them with a normal nailclipper, do not declaw them. That is just plain cruel. Should indeed be illegal.
Wietse de Graaf
 
saxdiva
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RE: Just Got Two Kittens....

Sun Aug 29, 2004 5:51 am

I worked my way through school as a vet tech, and if you'd like an in-depth description of a declaw surgery I'll be happy to fill you in. No way would I do that to my cat.

Start trimming those claws NOW while they're kittens (have your vet show you how so you don't trim too close) and you won't have any trouble with damaged furniture.

-Leanne

 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Just Got Two Kittens....

Sun Aug 29, 2004 6:21 am

was wondering what everyone thinks of declawing the front paws

A friend of mine is a veterinarian, and she wholeheartedly RECOMMENDS declawing - but only if the cats will be indoor pets. If you ever plan on letting them roam in and out, leave the claws alone.

The recommendation for declawing is to do it as early as possible, as kittens heal more quickly, and the fact that they put less weight on their paws keeps the wounds from re-opening a day or two after the procedure, as is common with large adults.

Many vets will place patches on the cat that administer pain medication through the skin, keeping them comfortable for the duration of their recovery time.

For those of you who dislike the thought of declawing, there are some manufacturers who sell rubber sheaths that can be glued over the claws, keeping the cat from being able to do damage with them.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
WellHung
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RE: Just Got Two Kittens....

Sun Aug 29, 2004 6:26 am

great. now put them in grocery bags, take pictures, add stupid comments (like this one) and post the pictures here.
 
emiratesa345
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RE: Just Got Two Kittens....

Sun Aug 29, 2004 8:05 am

We have 2 cats. One of them is declawed, as he was that way when I found him on the street. I'm told its incredibly painful for a cat, so I would never get it done.

EmiratesA345
You and I were meant to fly, Air Canada!
 
wietse
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RE: Just Got Two Kittens....

Sun Aug 29, 2004 8:08 am

less weight on their paws keeps the wounds from re-opening a day or two after the procedure, as is common with large adults

Shouldnt this alone be more then enough cause not to do this?

Why would you? To prevent the cats from messing up your furniture? Place a good scratching pole and you have taken care of that problem. Face it, the claws are part of the package and it should not be up to us to modify that package.

[Edited 2004-08-29 01:11:28]
Wietse de Graaf
 
gigneil
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RE: Just Got Two Kittens....

Sun Aug 29, 2004 8:32 am

I'm told its incredibly painful for a cat, so I would never get it done.

Not only that, but frequently the ancillary nerve damage causes permanent pain that can't be relieved.

We have two 8 month old kittens. We trimmed their claws for a while, but really they only claw their scratching post (boy) and sisal scratching thingy on door (girl). They're very particular about which they'll claw.

They don't claw leather. For some reason, it doesn't work out.

Declawing via standard procedures should be illegal. Laser declawing is significantly less damaging, but still should be reserved only for dangerous cats.

They will be neutered when they are 6 months old

DON'T wait that long. They will have basically passed puberty by then, so you'll miss some of the benefits, including some cancer related ones if they're girls.

Get it done ASAP if they're past 6 weeks old. Waiting until about 8 weeks is optimal. Kittens recover from the surgery better than slightly older cats, and its less damaging.

Look for a vet that utilizes a carbon dioxide laser for the procedure. It may set you back 15% or so more for the procedure, but it has a host of benefits for the kitten and really, really reduces the recovery time.

Also, request sevofluorine gas as the anesthetic (frequently referred to as Sevo, it may be the brand name available as well). It has a significantly lower body load than other types of anesthetic for animals.

ASK AROUND. When you find a vet that offers both a carbon dioxide laser AND sevo, you've found a good one.

N
 
nonrvsmdmf
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RE: Just Got Two Kittens....

Sun Aug 29, 2004 8:43 am

My cat is an indoor cat and I would never think of declawing her.

She has accidently gotten outside a couple of times, and without
her claws she would be defenseless.

She does not claw the furniture. When I first got her, I played with
her around the scratching post and gave here treats when she
used it. The key is you must show them attention and play with
them. They are just like having small children, if you do not show
them attention, they will do something you will not like just to
get the attention.

I agree, declawing should be against the law. It is cruel.
I did not forget...I just misplaced the thought...
 
gigneil
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RE: Just Got Two Kittens....

Sun Aug 29, 2004 9:25 am

For those of you who dislike the thought of declawing, there are some manufacturers who sell rubber sheaths that can be glued over the claws, keeping the cat from being able to do damage with them.

I missed this earlier. These are great.

them attention, they will do something you will not like just to
get the attention.


Play with their paws and ears a lot. It helps get them used to it, so the vet freaks them out less.

Play with them constantly. Carry them around with you around the house. Take them to bed with you. The more attention you give them now, the better adjusted they will be.

N
 
vaporlock
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RE: Just Got Two Kittens....

Sun Aug 29, 2004 9:27 am

Yhmfan, congratulatons........you now have 2 little souls that will bring you lots of laughs and unconditional love. Big thumbs up By getting 2 they will entertain themselves and you at the same time.

I personally have 3 cats and they all still have their claws. I have 2 scratching posts in the house that they use and they never scratch my furniture. When you go to the pet store, have a look at what they sell in the way of scratching posts. You can make your own very easily......you can even make a tree house for them...and believe me once they start to use it they won't stop! Big grin

I do not believe in removing their claws....it would be just like you having your nails removed...

Phyllis  Wink/being sarcastic
 
gigneil
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RE: Just Got Two Kittens....

Sun Aug 29, 2004 9:33 am

Oh, and don't buy cat food at the grocery store. Its got a high percentage of ash, and rarely meets any requirements. We feed our kittens Eukanuba, but the same company makes a value brand called Iams that's fine, and much more affordable. Petco or Petsmart (I'm sure they have those in Canada) carry a variety of high-quality brands, and its worth the extra 10 minutes to go there.

The US and Canada have the AAFCO. Look for food that has been AAFCO certified to have "Complete and balanced nutrition for...". If that isn't on the bag, don't buy it.

Most good food is balanced for all life stages, but some kitten food is balanced for Growth, Lactation, and Gestation. You also feed it to pregnant cats.

Final bit of advice (for now). The cheaper a toy is, the more likely they are to play with it. Buy a peacock feather (or anything fluffy on the end of a stick) and a laser pointer. Cats like to hunt things. You have to switch out toys often, or they get bored with them. Keep a drawerful and rotate them.

Kittens that haven't been through puberty don't react to catnip usually. Your kittens certanly can't right now, so don't bother buying any, and if you get them spayed soon they probably never will.

You didn't ask for any of this advice, so feel free to ignore it all.

N
 
ArmitageShanks
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RE: Just Got Two Kittens....

Sun Aug 29, 2004 9:43 am

We had out cat de-clawed and it really didn't seem to effect it after the surgery other than the expected healing. It's great after it's done, but evidently it's really bad for the cat, so I wouldn't get it done again.
 
Air NZ
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RE: Just Got Two Kittens....

Sun Aug 29, 2004 10:11 am

Don't Declaw

Just cut the nails. Though the only time nails get annoying is then the cat is on your shoulders and isn't properly placed. They inadvertently use their claws to hold on.

We have a structural pole in one of our rooms, we got carpet put it round it and gave them a platform to sit on. They love it. It's the only thing they claw, other then their scratching post.

Though the platform puts them at perfect head swiping height, which they occasionally do half heartedly, so no harm done.
 
airplay
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RE: Just Got Two Kittens....

Sun Aug 29, 2004 10:16 am

I say de-claw them. It will be much easier to eat them that way. And don't wait much longer. Old cat is kind of tough and stringy...
 
yhmfan
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RE: Just Got Two Kittens....

Sun Aug 29, 2004 10:53 am

congratulatons........you now have 2 little souls that will bring you lots of laughs and unconditional love

And unlike my other two little souls, these won't turn into obnoxious teenagers!!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Jutes85, they are indeed sisters (Bella & Claire) and they appear to be inseparable. I am really glad I got 2.

If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you
 
skyhawk
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RE: Just Got Two Kittens....

Sun Aug 29, 2004 11:06 am

As for the front claws, don't do it-like has been mentioned here, there are "guards" that can be placed over the claw to protect any furniture that the kittens decide they like.

BTW, neutering is for boys, and spaying is for girls. We got our kitten by way of her litter being dumped at the end of the summer. Our vet estimated that when we got her she was about 7-9 weeks old. When I asked when she could be spayed he said that when she is about ready to come into season the first time and that would be about 4 months. The funny thing is when I asked him how we would be sure that the time was near, he said there really wouldn't be any doubt, she would start howling as if she were looking for a mate. She did her first howling at about 3:00 A.M. Later that morning we called the vet, got things taken care of and she recovered very quickly, no problems at all. Good luck with your two babies.
 
gigneil
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RE: Just Got Two Kittens....

Sun Aug 29, 2004 11:10 am

When I asked when she could be spayed he said that when she is about ready to come into season the first time and that would be about 4 months.

Female cats are susceptible to uterine cancers and other sorts of problems that are statistically less common if you get it done earlier than this.

Pretty much everyone is of different opinions on the best time.

N
 
Greg
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RE: Just Got Two Kittens....

Sun Aug 29, 2004 1:49 pm

Both of mine are declawed. They were in and out of the vet in about two hours. They have a new process that actually glues the skin back together after the nails have been removed---no painful stitches.

Both animals were perfectly fine the next day--neither has exhibited any signs of discomfort or pain--even when using the litterbox

Yes, it does sound inhumane---but the procedure is fairly perfected--so it does not hurt the animals.

Saying it's the equivalent of amputating fingers is an overly dramatic comment by the ignorant.

 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Just Got Two Kittens....

Sun Aug 29, 2004 6:26 pm

Don´t declaw them! And don´t trim their claws either! As they are very young you can train them to sharpend their claws in a "legal" area, like a piece of timber or tree trunk (pet shop sell this stuff), if necessary enforce it with a whack with a rolled up newspaper (not to strong though!), it is a bit like training them to use the cat box.
If they have an opportunity to get out in the garden, the claw sharpening will be a non issue anyway, because they sharpen them automatically when climbing trees etc.
Declawing is just cruel!  Angry
(I grew up with cats)
Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
wietse
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RE: Just Got Two Kittens....

Sun Aug 29, 2004 7:06 pm

It all depends on the cat though.. we have 3 White Siamese females and they kind of refuse to sharpen their nails regularly, just because they consistently refuse to do what you want them to do. So we sometimes trim their nails, they dont mind, and it doesnt hurt them in any way.
Wietse de Graaf
 
SWA TPA
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RE: Just Got Two Kittens....

Mon Aug 30, 2004 12:00 am


I have two cats and the first one I got I had declawed.
The poor thing really seemed miserable for a few days after. I didnt realize what the procedure entailed and found it to be very cruel. I really felt bad after the fact.
My second kitty still has her claws as I promised to never declaw another cat. She is an indoor cat and we really have no problems with the claws. She was scratching the furniture but we bought a product called Sticky Paws. It's kinda like clear double sided strips of tape. She hates them! Problem solved. I also clip her nails on ocassion.
Dont declaw your kitties!
Also, on the neutering thing. Both my cats are from the Humane Society and they both came to me already done. The little girl was only 1.5lbs when I brought her home (runt of the litter) and she still had her stitches. They can do it pretty young. 4 months seems a little late to me.

Cheers!
SWA TPA
I believe I can fly.....
 
gigneil
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RE: Just Got Two Kittens....

Mon Aug 30, 2004 2:18 am

Saying it's the equivalent of amputating fingers is an overly dramatic comment by the ignorant.


No, it isn't. The process is quite similar, both employ the destruction of a ball socket.

Yes, it does sound inhumane---but the procedure is fairly perfected--so it does not hurt the animals.

That's just simply not true. It may hurt them less, but still a very damaging procedure that many vets just will not do for you.

N
 
Mr Spaceman
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RE: Just Got Two Kittens....

Mon Aug 30, 2004 3:48 am

Hi guys.

>> Yhmfan, congrats!!!

I have three cats. The brown tabby (REX), who's in my profile is 10 years old. My other two are 12 and 8 years old. They're all indoor cats (for now) and have all of their claws.

I saw a TV show a few years ago about de-clawing cats. The vets would put the cat or kitten into a fish tank, close the lid, and pump a "knock out" gas into the tank. Then the vet would lay the cat out on a table and amputate each toe at it's last knucle using a regular pair of toe nail clippers (for humans).

It's a very quick procedure, but, I would never have my cats's claws removed.

They need them to scratch each other, myself, my furniture and carpets (they do use their scratching post too), to open cupboard doors, claw my face when I'm sleeping, etc, etc.


Then there's the experience of your 6 week old kittens attacking you feet or your private parts when you're sleeping .... ouch!!!!!


Chris  Smile
"Just a minute while I re-invent myself"
 
Greg
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RE: Just Got Two Kittens....

Mon Aug 30, 2004 3:56 am

I've had plenty of cats....all declawed...never seemed to both them at all after a day or so...
Not sure what all the fuss is about.
Likely, you may need to find a more reputable vet---I've never had one refuse to do it, either.
The hardest part was actually keepin the cats from being too active after the procedure was done.
I'm not aware of any animal that wants to 'play' when they are in pain.
I'll stand by my original comments.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Just Got Two Kittens....

Mon Aug 30, 2004 4:09 am

The cheaper a toy is, the more likely they are to play with it.

My cat flies in the face of this - we've spent tons of money on toys for her, and her favorite toy remains a 99 cent Bic ball-point pen! (yes, we removed the ink cartridge)

If you really want to see your cat go nuts, check out http://www.kittyhooch.com. These guys have ultra-premium catnip that even my finicky cat goes nuts for.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Just Got Two Kittens....

Mon Aug 30, 2004 5:11 am

Our cats were allowed to go outside and roaming around took care of their claws (they also needed them in case they had to defend their territory). Both were too lazy or stupid to catch birds, but liked to climb trees. Occasionaly they caught a mouse. BTW declawing is like amputating the last piece of your fingers, where all the feeling is. Of course an amputated person would go on with life, but it wouldn´t be the same.
If you have a female cat, which is kept only indoors, or indoors during her "catty" days, you don´t have to spay her either (which with female cats is a major operation, including the removal of her ovaries and uterus, for tomcats neutering is just a snip)
Jan

[Edited 2004-08-29 22:14:59]
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
redngold
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RE: Just Got Two Kittens....

Mon Aug 30, 2004 6:09 am

[Replying to the first post only, haven't read the rest]

Hi. I've had cats and/or kittens non-stop for the last eight years. I currently own two full-grown cats who were all-four paw declawed well before I adopted them.

As nice as it is that they do not "claw" things, they still make their marks. When they want to mark something, they bite it, and I have found teeth marks and/or holes in everything from clothing to wooden chairs, garbage cans to bars of soap.

Cats instinctively want to mark things with their scent, and they will do this one of three ways: with the glands around the pads of their paws (therefore leaving claw marks as well), by spraying (anyone with an unneutered male cat knows how that smells) or with their teeth and saliva (as mine do.) If you take away the clawing part, they are more apt to pick a different way to do it, even though those scent glands on their paws have not been removed.

A cat without front claws cannot climb as easily (something done for pleasure as well as defense), cannot defend itself from a close-in attack (something important if you're going to let your cat out of the house), and cannot dig or clean itself as easily. Therefore the cat is more likely to bite if it feels it is in danger. You don't want your cat to develop a propensity towards biting.

BUT - if you MUST get your kitten declawed, get it done now, preferably at the same time as spaying, so that there's less stress on the animal. For one, there will only be one anesthetic, and also this will keep your kitten from running around after the spay operation, which could cause problems at the surgical wound. Also, the younger the animal at the time of declawing, the less pain, because as the animal grows older the tissues around the claws become more hardened and calloused.


Just my 0.02,
redngold

BTW, my one cat, Bert, still had claw growth tissue left after his declawing. I still have to clip an area on one of his paws where the claw grows through. I know to do it when he starts gnawing at the pads of his right front paw because it obviously doesn't grow right anymore. Essentially, I have to clip off part of the pad.
Up, up and away!
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Just Got Two Kittens....

Mon Aug 30, 2004 8:49 am

Redngold,

Cats also have some smell glands on their forehead. This is why they like to rub their head on other cats, things or people. Common cat courtesy.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
767Lover
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RE: Just Got Two Kittens....

Mon Aug 30, 2004 10:28 am

We had several cats throughout my childhood. All were declawed. All played outside. All caught mice, birds, etc., and climbed trees and houses with no problems at all. And they didn't bite stuff that wasn't food.
 
ScarletHarlot
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RE: Just Got Two Kittens....

Mon Aug 30, 2004 12:20 pm

Greg, I'm really disappointed in you.

Yhmfan, do not declaw your cats! I just have the same to say as others on here, that's it's inhumane and unnecessary. It's illegal in Britain, I believe. I wish vets wouldn't do it here. The cat rescue group I volunteer with is very strongly against declawing. I certainly would never declaw any of my cats. In the end, it's only furniture.
But that was when I ruled the world
 
Mr Spaceman
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RE: Just Got Two Kittens....

Mon Aug 30, 2004 1:06 pm

Hi guys.

>> 767Lover, how the heck did your cats manage to climb trees without claws???? Did they use their teeth? Big grin

Were the trees lying across the ground in a horizontal position?

I'm just having fun with you!

Chris  Smile
"Just a minute while I re-invent myself"
 
ScooterTrash
Posts: 553
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RE: Just Got Two Kittens....

Wed Sep 01, 2004 11:45 am

Just got two kittens?

Congratulations, they ought to be delicious! I recommend them without the claws... Tend to catch in the throat.

Scooter
(not really much of a cat person)
 
vaporlock
Posts: 3528
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RE: Just Got Two Kittens....

Wed Sep 01, 2004 1:52 pm

Scootertrash, your too funny!!!!!!!!  Big thumbs up

Phyllis  Wink/being sarcastic
 
saigonhouston
Posts: 373
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RE: Just Got Two Kittens....

Thu Sep 02, 2004 5:14 am

I had 5 lovely cats. Yes, 5.
They are adorable and loving. They are 4 years old and came from same mother cat. Do not declaws your cats. I trimmed my cats nails every month since they were baby. They are laying so cute in my arms and look up without strike back.

Oh, I got them 3 scratching poles and they all loved it. Except, one of them will use carpet to get your attention. She is first making deep meow and if you are ignoring her then she will scratch the carpet. When I yelled at her then ran straight upstairs.

They never damage any of furniture or just because all of my furniture are 90% made of leather in the house.

The only things that I don't like about cat is shredding. I have to mop, vacuum and clean up constantly to keep up with 5 cats.

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