Thrust
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Al Qaeda Responsible For Downed Russian Jets

Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:08 pm

It appears I was right all along. On netscape.net I found an article saying an Islamic group linked to Al Qaeda and Osama Bin Laden claims responsibility for the two downed Russian jets. They have struck yet again apparently.....Anybody hear similar news?
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
FJWH
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RE: Al Qaeda Responsible For Downed Russian Jets

Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:11 pm

ONE article (till now) doesn't say your right.
But why would Al Qaida attack Russia, is this a "enemy" of them?
And why didn't they used the planes for purposes as 9/11?

FlightS in the next 3 months: MSP, PHX, MEM, NCE, TFS, BCN. All round trips from AMS
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: Al Qaeda Responsible For Downed Russian Jets

Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:14 pm

You know...I can understand some of Al-Qaeda's attacks (based on their goals, not based on humanity, of course)...they hate the United States, so they are going to hit the World Trade Center and Pentagon (and presumably White House also, as they probably didn't want to hit an empty field in some no-name country town near Pittsburgh), and I can understand their Spain attacks, as Spain had been a vocal ally of the United States, but Russia? Hitting some planes with names that most American's couldn't either spell or tell you that they are aircraft companies, and smaller planes at that? (the Tu-134 has roughly the capacity of the CR7, the Tu-154 roughly the capacity of the 739) I'm not sure I buy this report, and if it's in fact true, then Osama has really gotten desperate to just strike anything and everything accessable to him...
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Derico
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RE: Al Qaeda Responsible For Downed Russian Jets

Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:20 pm

That's because you think Bin Laden only hates the US. I think he really was a sociopath all along and uses the US more as a very effective tool to whip up support. But I also have no doubts that currently most terrorist groups find it advantageous to claim their attacks for 'Al Qaeda' instead for themselves, for two reasons: it provides a thin investigation cover and it also stirs up sentiments in the muslim world.
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
 
airbazar
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RE: Al Qaeda Responsible For Downed Russian Jets

Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:21 pm

Dude, it's not always about America. There's a big World out there. Al-Qaeda is a world-wide terrorist network with "interests" in many countries. They openly support the Chechnyans who are "at war" with Russia. Just keep on watching FoxNews  Wink/being sarcastic
 
Tasha
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RE: Al Qaida Responsible For Downed Russian Jets

Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:23 pm

FJWH:

"ONE article (till now) doesn't say your right.
But why would Al Qaida attack Russia, is this a "enemy" of them?
And why didn't they used the planes for purposes as 9/11?"

1. "why would Al Qaida attack Russia, is this a "enemy" of them?"

Yes they are... The Russians are fighting In Chetchinia, also Bin Laden has stated that all crusader nations (all Christian nations) are sworn enemies.

2. "And why didn't they used the planes for purposes as 9/11?"

Why is simple... It takes far less effort to get a bomb onboard rather then training someone as a pilot.


These terror attacks are just another reason why it is time to crush radical Islam once an for all. If these people want to meet Allah, then lets facilitate it. Perhaps this may be the wake-up call for the Russians to stop screwing around and to get serious. The Germans have a wonderful saying that I love: "Eisenhart" (hard as Iron). Perhaps it is time for Russia to become Eisenhart with terrorists.

All we can do however is to say a prayer for the unfortunate souls lost and their families.

Tasha  Smile/happy/getting dizzy



 
agill
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RE: Al Qaeda Responsible For Downed Russian Jets

Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:26 pm

FJWH: Why not, I mean the Russians have been killing muslims in Chechnya for years
 
BandA
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RE: Al Qaeda Responsible For Downed Russian Jets

Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:30 pm

It doesnt make sense (doesnt mean that it isnt so) that Al Qaeda is responsible for this... even if they were... knowing them, they wouldve claimed responsibility right away (or even before the tragedy). Al-Jazeera (sp?) wouldve been reporting it within minutes after the crashes...

I think that some of these terrorist groups would claim responsiblity to pretty much everything.

If they openly support Chechnyan rebels (as Airbazar said) and were indeed responsible, I think Chechnyans would've claimed responsibility as well...

Oh well we can just speculate... I just hope that the true cause of these crashes isnt kept a secret.
"They [Terrorists] never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." - GWB
 
aerosol
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RE: Al Qaeda Responsible For Downed Russian Jets

Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:31 pm

Al Qaida is used like a brand. It seems like every Muslim terror attack is Al Qaida these days - it guarantees max media attention.
 
hz747300
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RE: Al Qaeda Responsible For Downed Russian Jets

Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:34 pm

There is a sect of Islam that believes that there cannot be a peaceful coexistence between Islam and other religions--for it is the divine religion. Imparted to Mohammed in 600AD, it was the last great religion to evolve from the holy land and thus is the most finely tuned of all three--Islam, Judaism, and Christianity.

Under those rules, Russia cannot be left alone. Also, since Russia is fighting Muslims in Chechnya, it is a strong target. Chechnyan rebels receive funding from Al Quaeda, and when it was an all out war before Russian troops over-ran them in 2000-2001, they also supplied fighters.

If you have been following the news, you will note that this is hardly the first attack against Russia:

- Theatre takeover
- Shoulder fired missiles launched at their embassy in Beruit
- Female homocide bomber attacks in Southern Russia

to name a few...
Keep on truckin'...
 
rwylie77
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RE: Al Qaeda Responsible For Downed Russian Jets

Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:37 pm

It looks as though it is definitely a muslim terrorist group backed by Al Qaeda. (It does amuse me when Americans think the whole world is centred around them!) The Russians have been killing Muslims in Chechnya for years, which is the reason for this attack, and they have said they will continue with such attacks until the Russians pull out of Chechnya. Why just a bomb? As with the attacks in Spain, very simple and don't take much planning.
 
gsoflyer
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RE: Al Qaeda Responsible For Downed Russian Jets

Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:40 pm

Uhm,

This isn't about the United States, this is about bringing Islamic dominance. Have you not listened to any of bin Laden's translations?

If this is what happened in Russia, then one word: Chechnya. Why? The Chechans are Muslims and are rebeling against Russia. Attacking Russia helps to move bin Laden's goal further.
 
BandA
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RE: Al Qaeda Responsible For Downed Russian Jets

Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:44 pm

Dude, it's not always about America. There's a big World out there. Al-Qaeda is a world-wide terrorist network with "interests" in many countries.


True, India has also been suffering from Al-Qaeda's terrorism for over a decade now! (Kashmir)

"They [Terrorists] never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." - GWB
 
nosedive
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RE: Al Qaeda Responsible For Downed Russian Jets

Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:49 pm

The BBC is saying that Russian Officials found explosive remnants.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3604134.stm
The FSB says the traces of explosive were found amid the debris of the Tu-154, which was flying to the Black Sea resort of Sochi when it disappeared from radar shortly after the pilot pressed the SOS button.

And this, also from the BBC, is rather interesting:
President Vladimir Putin's envoy to southern Russia told reporters that the black boxes had "practically switched off immediately". Vladimir Yakovlev said this was "probably more confirmation... that something had happened very quickly".

From the Chicago Sun Times: http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-crash27.html

A spokesman for the security agency, Nikolai Zakharov, said on Russian television that preliminary analysis shows traces of "hexogen" were found in the shattered Tu-154 jetliner that crashed in southern Russia.

The claim of responsibility published on the militant Muslim Web site was signed "the Islambouli Brigades." A group with a similar name has claimed responsibility for at least one other attack, but the authenticity could not immediately be confirmed.

The statement said five mujahedeen (Islamic fighters) were on board each plane and their wills will be published soon. It did not give more details.


As for the Al-Qaeda link: PLS&idq=/ff/story/0002/20040827/0506330815.htm&photoid=20040825MOSB121>

"Our mujahideen in the Islambouli Brigades were able to hijack two Russian planes and they were successful despite the obstacles that faced them at the beginning. There were five (mujahideen) in each plane," the statement said.
Khaled Islambouli was the Egyptian army officer who assassinated Egyptian President Anwar Sadat during a military parade in Cairo in 1981.
Islambouli was a member of the Jihad group, part of which integrated into al-Qaeda in the 1990s under Ayman al-Zawahri, the top aide to Saudi-born al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden.



Edit: My Last link appears to be a dead one  Sad

[Edited 2004-08-27 16:52:19]
 
BandA
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RE: Al Qaeda Responsible For Downed Russian Jets

Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:52 pm

Nosedive,

good info but the last link doesnt work (one abt Al-Qaeda)
"They [Terrorists] never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." - GWB
 
AGM100
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RE: Al Qaeda Responsible For Downed Russian Jets

Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:53 pm

Essential in a Gorilla war is give the enemy a face and name, Al Qaeda is good enough for me.
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Al Qaeda Responsible For Downed Russian Jets

Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:58 pm

Anyone can claim anything. I'm not saying they didn't do it, because as we all know, they have and can do such things. But anyone can claim whatever they want.

And bin Laden hates the whole fucking world, not just the U.S. They hate anyone who doesn't subscribe to their perversion of Islam. But it goes beyond that. With any such group that uses the name of God or Allah as justification, they're justifiying their acts in the name of God for the grasp of worldy power in some form or another. And to them, Russia still represents the oppression of Islam with it's economic control (even now, to the extent) of all the -Stans in Asia.
 
nosedive
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RE: Al Qaeda Responsible For Downed Russian Jets

Sat Aug 28, 2004 12:02 am

BandA, I know about the link....bummer :-(

From the International Herald Tribune:http://www.iht.com/articles/536060.html

On Friday morning, the Web site of an extremist group calling itself the Islambouli Brigades of Al Qaeda claimed responsibility for both crashes.

Again, hexogen(e) is mentioned. And the only 2 places I've seen the group w/ "of Al Qaeda" tacked on is the IHT and CNN....... and now the New York Times.... So 3 and counting
 
777236ER
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RE: Al Qaeda Responsible For Downed Russian Jets

Sat Aug 28, 2004 12:03 am

Wait, a group with 'links' to Osama bin Ladin is now automatically called Al Qaeda? Is this from the same intelligence that said Iraq had WMD?

No one knows, yet, who was responsible, or even if both were terrorist attacks. If they were, it's likely Chechen terrorists with nothing at all to do with hatred of the West.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
nosedive
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RE: Al Qaeda Responsible For Downed Russian Jets

Sat Aug 28, 2004 12:05 am

777, I think it can be safely assumed that these were terrorist incidents....as one terror group has claimed responsibility, and that theyve found explosives at one of the crash sites  Insane
 
trident2e
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RE: Al Qaeda Responsible For Downed Russian Jets

Sat Aug 28, 2004 12:07 am

No doubt Bush would love it to be al-Qu-ida but anyone with even a little knowledge of world affairs (so of course we can exclude Bush here) would know it is likely to be linked to the Chechnya situation. The BBC is reporting the following:

'In a website statement on Friday, a group called the Islambouli Brigades said it had five people on board each aircraft. It warned this act would be followed by others "until the killings of our Muslim brothers in Chechnya cease".'
 
nudelhirsch
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RE: Al Qaeda Responsible For Downed Russian Jets

Sat Aug 28, 2004 12:09 am

Reuters reports that the explosives found seem to be the kind used before by Chechen rebels in several terroristic attacks. Also several Chechnyan people were identified and are supescted to have brought the explosives on board.
It seems there were Chechens on both flights, but only in the TU154 explosives were found so far.

http://http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=H44SP2WVMMM14CRBAE0CFFA?type=topNews&storyID=6089129
Putana da Seatbeltz!
 
BandA
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RE: Al Qaeda Responsible For Downed Russian Jets

Sat Aug 28, 2004 12:13 am

Wait, a group with 'links' to Osama bin Ladin is now automatically called Al Qaeda? Is this from the same intelligence that said Iraq had WMD?


woah! doesnt Bush have links with some Saudi families that have links with the Bin Laden family who have links with Osama?  Wow!

and doesnt Tony Blair have links with Bush?  Wow!

BandA, I know about the link....bummer :-(

no biggie nosedive... thanks for gathering the info... good stuff!



[Edited 2004-08-27 17:14:30]
"They [Terrorists] never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." - GWB
 
planespotterx
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RE: Al Qaeda Responsible For Downed Russian Jets

Sat Aug 28, 2004 12:31 am

Al Quaeda dont just hate the US, they hate anyone who isnt Muslim, the attacks in Istanbul, Spain and threatening the UK and Italy goes to show there not intrested in "politics", there just wanting everyone to bow down to their so called "god"..
Its not the fall that kills u, its the sudden stop at the end..
 
SUPRAZACHAIR
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RE: Al Qaeda Responsible For Downed Russian Jets

Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:29 am

Ugh, you people are so petty, American or otherwise... Get over yourselves, and and stick to the topic, politics goes in the non-av section.
 
SafetyDude
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RE: Al Qaeda Responsible For Downed Russian Jets

Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:48 am

Wait, a group with 'links' to Osama bin Ladin is now automatically called Al Qaeda? Is this from the same intelligence that said Iraq had WMD?
WMD were there, but a "certain person" never physically found them.

woah! doesnt Bush have links with some Saudi families that have links with the Bin Laden family who have links with Osama?
The Saudi Royal Family does not support Bin Laden. There was a very well-done documentary on Osama Bin Laden last week on the History Channel. The US indirectly did a few things that got Bin Laden upset, including being exiled from Saudi Arabia.

The reason that the majority of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudis was because Bin Laden wanted the US to create tensions with Saudi Arabia.

-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
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Aeroflot777
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RE: Al Qaeda Responsible For Downed Russian Jets

Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:53 am

You all are making me nervous!!

 
trident2e
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RE: Al Qaeda Responsible For Downed Russian Jets

Sat Aug 28, 2004 2:07 am

SafetyDude - you are incredibly naive.
 
Sabena 690
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RE: Al Qaeda Responsible For Downed Russian Jets

Sat Aug 28, 2004 2:15 am

Al-Qaeda is a world-wide terrorist network with "interests" in many countries.

Wrong, Al Qaeda most probably doesn't exist anymore, after the US attacks in Afghanistan. There is no central organisation anymore.

The problem we now have is that a lot of seperate groups, all working independently, are using the name 'Al Qaeda' to be heard in the press.

They do terroristic attacks (the one already bigger than the other), and do those attacks "in the name of Al Qaeda".

This is a big but important difference.

Frederic
 
gsoflyer
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RE: Al Qaeda Responsible For Downed Russian Jets

Sat Aug 28, 2004 2:17 am

Why are legal reports posted in multi-national news media naiva? You're the one who quoted the BBC, and all know that they are so impartial.

Whatever.
 
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litz
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RE: Al Qaeda Responsible For Downed Russian Jets

Sat Aug 28, 2004 2:31 am

>> But why would Al Qaida attack Russia, is this a "enemy" of them?
>> And why didn't they used the planes for purposes as 9/11?

Russia is not very liked in the Al Qaida world (remember who was invading afghanistan? and who the chechyan rebels are rebelling against?) ...

As far as why didn't they pull a 9/11 scenario, assuming they are even responsible in the first place?

Probably because the Russians would not hesitate -- especially AFTER 9/11 -- to shoot those planes out of the sky.

- litz
 
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Plane Holland
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RE: Al Qaeda Responsible For Downed Russian Jets

Sat Aug 28, 2004 2:32 am

my 2 cents,

Al Qaeda , they like to claim it was them.. in fact it wouldn't surprise me if it's again not them but some other, propably the Chechen.

Al Qaeda and everyone trying to link to them; A pity excuse to misuse and abuse the Islam and muslim community.

nonetheless whoever uses this tactics are animals (and not to forget the reason why.. )

rgds, Plane Holland
 
kl911
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RE: Al Qaeda Responsible For Downed Russian Jets

Sat Aug 28, 2004 2:42 am

''''A pity excuse to misuse and abuse the Islam and muslim community.''''

Ehh, as far as I know most Muslims do, ever been to Israel? Did you see them cheering at 9/11?

KL911
 
garnetpalmetto
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RE: Al Qaeda Responsible For Downed Russian Jets

Sat Aug 28, 2004 3:36 am

There is no central organisation anymore.

Sabena, from what I've read, there never was a central organization or a hierarchy like exists in other terrorist groups. Al-Qaeda was and is more a loose confederation of worldwide terror cells linked together for a common purpose with Usama bin-Laden guiding that common purpose. In some regards, more like a CEO of a multinational corporation than the traditional concept of a military leader.
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
 
dvk
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RE: Al Qaeda Responsible For Downed Russian Jets

Sat Aug 28, 2004 3:52 am

Rwylie, I've re-read this entire thread, and except for one post that showed some ignorance, there is nothing else justifying your smart-ass remark of amusement when "Americans think the whole world is centered around them!" I have gone out of my way to be civil in these discussions, but I am absolutely sick of people like you who go out of your way to be condescending and insulting toward Americans. If you can't post without taking generalized swipes at people, then just shut up.
I'm not dumb. I just have a command of thoroughly useless information.
 
gsoflyer
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RE: Al Qaeda Responsible For Downed Russian Jets

Sat Aug 28, 2004 3:57 am

Kl911 said:
"Al Qaeda , they like to claim it was them.. in fact it wouldn't surprise me if it's again not them but some other, propably the Chechen.

Al Qaeda and everyone trying to link to them; A pity excuse to misuse and abuse the Islam and muslim community."

Uhm, regardless of Chechens or Al-Qaida, they are both Muslim extremists. So what's really your point?
 
SafetyDude
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RE: Al Qaeda Responsible For Downed Russian Jets

Sat Aug 28, 2004 4:01 am

SafetyDude - you are incredibly naive.
 Confused

Care to explain?
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
tu154m
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RE: Al Qaeda Responsible For Downed Russian Jets

Sat Aug 28, 2004 4:33 am

TASHA...........I agree............let the facilitation of wishes begin. It has been LONG overdue. If any good comes out of this hopefully they have pissed off the Russians to the point that they will now focus more efforts on wiping out these organizations.
S
CEOs should swim with cement flippers!
 
Logan22L
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RE: Al Qaeda Responsible For Downed Russian Jets

Sat Aug 28, 2004 5:07 am


Sabena 690: I agree with Garnetpalmetto - from the things I have seen, heard, and read (ALWAYS taken with at least a few grains of salt), Al Qaeda has never really been centralized. Factions are likely in many countries, not just the middle east or surrounding Asian countries. These may include Europe, the pacific, and probably even the Americas. Very difficult to wipe out such a structure; perhaps one advantage we have is that what makes them difficult to wipe out may also render them somewhat disorganized at times. However, 9/11 was, unfortunately, well organized, and horribly destructive - for them a victory beyond even Osama Bin Laden's expectations. Wish what you'd written were true, but I fear it is not.

Logan
"The deeper you go, the higher you fly. The higher you fly, the deeper you go."
 
ETStar
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RE: Al Qaeda Responsible For Downed Russian Jets

Sat Aug 28, 2004 5:41 am

Thrust, original poster,
It would really help if you can support your post with a link to the article you found on netscape.net (which btw is a site almost no one goes to). Second thing, since any thing Al-Qaeda is deemed big news with the likes of CNN and since they are not reporting it as being masterminded by this group, then i have serious doubts. Finally, there are these sites that keeps posting this same news release every few months claiming that Al Qaeda was responsible for the Ethiopian Airlines 767 that crashed into the Indian Ocean: funny thing is that all of these sites are based out of Israel or are of Jewish origin, and these postings started coming many years after the accident. So, don't base the facts by simply reading ONE article in this web of multiple pages which mostly contain speculative information.
 
Thrust
Topic Author
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RE: Al Qaeda Responsible For Downed Russian Jets

Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:00 am

Thanks ETstar for pointing out I forgot to include a source. Here is the article for you all that I intended to show in my first post. Sorry. So here is the link to the article.

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/

The article should appear on the top of the page "Qaeda Cell: 10 Hijackers Downed Russian Jets"
Enjoy everyone!
--Thrust
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
Thrust
Topic Author
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RE: Al Qaeda Responsible For Downed Russian Jets

Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:08 am

The article is somewhat speculative, but certainly contains a strong motive for Al Qaeda to want to do something like this!
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
Arecibo
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RE: Al Qaeda Responsible For Downed Russian Jets

Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:35 am

Strong motives ...... I agree. But !!! They will not win not now , not ever ......Fighting these bastardos is a marathon race....Not the 100 mts dash, their day is coming......Never forget 9/11 - 3/11.
Life is tough; It's touher if you're stupid. John Wayne.
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: Al Qaeda Responsible For Downed Russian Jets

Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:40 am

For Al Qaeda it's not where you are or where you're from, it's "Are you and extremist radical Muslim???" France is probably next, or Germany. Don't take it personal, it's "Just because". They'd love to get the whole world involved.
 
AZjetgeek
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RE: Al Qaeda Responsible For Downed Russian Jets

Sat Aug 28, 2004 9:02 am

My feelings are that these were terrorist attacks, but I would suspect that the terrorists were Chechen rebels who managed to get tickets for the two flights.

My concern is that Putin will focus solely on Russia's battle with Chechnya and not look at the big picture - Islamic extremist groups, linked and independent of Al Qaeda, intent on conquering Christian and Jewish nations. It's not Muslims in general who hate non-Muslims. Terrorist attacks including 9/11 and the USS Cole were cowardly, unprovoked acts of Islamic extremists with a death wish - Death to all non-Muslims.

Russia needs to beef up its airport security. If, indeed, there were five terrorists on each of those two planes, what does that say about their security measures? Even if I had the money to fly to Russia, I would avoid it until their government tightens security even more than they may already have.
Long live the RJ!
 
alphascan
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RE: Al Qaeda Responsible For Downed Russian Jets

Sat Aug 28, 2004 9:07 am

First Tribent says:

No doubt Bush would love it to be al-Qu-ida but anyone with even a little knowledge of world affairs (so of course we can exclude Bush here)

Then Tribent says:

you are incredibly naive

Well isn't that the pot calling the kettle black.
"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
 
Thrust
Topic Author
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RE: Al Qaeda Responsible For Downed Russian Jets

Sat Aug 28, 2004 10:44 am

But I thought that Al Qaeda, or rather, some extreme Islamist groups somehow are indirectly linked with Chechnya? Though I am the one who started this topic, I am simply asking a question...wasn't a high Islamist official or somebody blown up in their car there? Just wondering.
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
AFROTC
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RE: Al Qaeda Responsible For Downed Russian Jets

Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:44 pm

If its true it does kinda make sense, if I remember correctly Osama did fight against Russia when they invaded Afghanistan.
We've Been Looking For You, United States Airforce, Cross Into The Blue!
 
AFROTC
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RE: Al Qaeda Responsible For Downed Russian Jets

Sat Aug 28, 2004 2:01 pm

ok, i just got a message from msnbc confirming that evidence of explosives were found at one of the crash sites. They are trying to link this to a couple chechnyan pax on board. The militant group claiming responsibility says its a suicide bombing
We've Been Looking For You, United States Airforce, Cross Into The Blue!
 
kim777fan
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RE: Al Qaeda Responsible For Downed Russian Jets

Sat Aug 28, 2004 2:36 pm

Will, you MUST be naive because you don't buy the Michael Moore wisdom that somehow Bush is in bed with Royal Saudi family and therefore himself connected to Al Queda.  Nuts

You probably haven't gotten an explanation on the "naive" comments because if you don't believe Michael Moore, you're probably too naive to understand an explanation anyway. Big grin

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