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Aaron747
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Christian/Far Right Groups Feel Left Out Of RNC

Thu Sep 02, 2004 1:14 am

from a column in yesterday's Palm Beach Post...

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/content/news/epaper/2004/08/31/m1a_BINO_0831.html

NEW YORK -- The "people of faith" are here, although you might not know by watching the convention coverage on television.

The Republicans have wisely decided to keep their sanctimonious base mostly under wraps this week so as not to scare off moderate voters.

"The Republican National Committee has failed to put a prime-time face on the majority of the party, and that's troubling," said Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council...


If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
mdsh00
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RE: Christian/Far Right Groups Feel Left Out Of RNC

Thu Sep 02, 2004 1:40 am

From the text:

On Monday, Perkins was in the shabby hotel, handing out fortune cookies to reporters, hoping to dramatize that that the fortune of the party was tied to its abortion-banning, gay-shunning, stem-cell loathing, if-only-we-could-force-everybody-to-pray-in-schools conservatives.

And that right there is what scares me about the Republican Party.
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
 
Logan22L
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RE: Christian/Far Right Groups Feel Left Out Of RNC

Thu Sep 02, 2004 1:51 am

If the Republicans are smart enough to squelch the right-winged christian conservative nut-jobs from their platform, why can't they actually solve some of the problems in our country? Oh, yeah, because we're too busy "solving" problems in other countries.

Logan
"The deeper you go, the higher you fly. The higher you fly, the deeper you go."
 
jaysit
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RE: Christian/Far Right Groups Feel Left Out Of RNC

Thu Sep 02, 2004 2:41 am

How are these nut cases left out?

They virtually wrote the plank for the Convention.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
Mir
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RE: Christian/Far Right Groups Feel Left Out Of RNC

Thu Sep 02, 2004 4:04 am

The Republican National Committee has failed to put a prime-time face on the majority of the party, and that's troubling," said Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council...

Well, if they want Bush to get elected, the christian right wing had better shut up, because he can't win in their ideals. There is a reason McCain, Guiliani and Ahnold were the main speakers.
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
johnboy
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RE: Christian/Far Right Groups Feel Left Out Of RNC

Thu Sep 02, 2004 4:39 am

Perkins had better be quiet, or Falwell/Robertson et al. might pull a Wellstone on him.

Repub mantra: "You're only useful to us when you capitulate COMPLETELY."
 
b757300
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RE: Christian/Far Right Groups Feel Left Out Of RNC

Thu Sep 02, 2004 5:21 am

As usual the media has to dig up some malcontents to try and make it look as if the party is divided. These are the same people that whine because President Bush won't outlaw abortion (which of course he cannot do by himself; it would take a constitutional amendment or another Supreme Court decision) or the President won't carry out their other little pet issue.

I'm a Conservative, Christian Republican and in no way do I or anyone else I've spoken with feel "left out" by the Republican Party.
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
mdsh00
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RE: Christian/Far Right Groups Feel Left Out Of RNC

Thu Sep 02, 2004 5:50 am

As usual the media has to dig up some malcontents to try and make it look as if the party is divided.

B757300, Why do you whine so damn much? It's painfully obvious to anyone that both Democrats and Republicans try to keep their extreme members away from the limelight.

Here is something written by Tucker Carlson..a staunch Republican and CNN political analyst:

"The speakers do not represent the mainstream of the Republican Party which is not secular, not coastal and pretty conservative. Same with the themes. The Republicans will have a disciplined convention. Both parties do. There’s not much chaos left in political conventions, and that’s a shame. The Republicans are going to make the point that they’re not scary, that they’re in control of the country. They’re going to keep the evangelicals under wraps; I guess it’s effective. It offends me. I think they ought to say what they really think. I think both parties should."

"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
 
TWFirst
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RE: Christian/Far Right Groups Feel Left Out Of RNC

Thu Sep 02, 2004 6:05 am

B757300: So you're saying Tony Perkins is nothing but a "malcontent" dug up by the media?? I thought you gand he were butt buddies. I think the media would rather bury Tony Perkins, but he and his group of hate mongers keep clawing their way up from the dirt.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
flyyul
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RE: Christian/Far Right Groups Feel Left Out Of RNC

Thu Sep 02, 2004 7:03 am

B757300.

How can you be christian and republican. Let me challenge your bible comprehension.

1.) Thou shall not murder, means not electing democratically a president who has killed thousands of people oversees, many of them are justified, most are UNJISTIFIED.... and that is murder, and you are guilty of murder through your vote.

Accepting the right to bear arms means more murder. A simple equation .. more guns, more murders.

2.) Was Jesus a man who appreciated an elitist society, where the rich are rich, and the poor are poor.. what do you think Jesus would have to say about a greedy society where 50 million people dont have basic access to health care.

Christianity and Republican conservative way of thought are at the opposite end of the philosophical scale, yet both are synonymous, how the hell did that ever happen?

3.) Was Jesus liberal, or conservative.

God darn it, pick up a bible and read it over.. for the love of god please do.

 
vaman
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RE: Christian/Far Right Groups Feel Left Out Of RNC

Thu Sep 02, 2004 7:15 am

I'm by no means a right winger...i think that all their christian babble is non-sense...but FLYYUL, calling Bush's actions murders is a little extreme i mean..cmon now. And also...the rich are rich because a lot of them did a lot of hard work to earn it. America is by no means perfect but you CAN better you life situation. That is the beauty of capitolism and we don't need a Robin HOod president to come swooping down and start making the upper income groups pay even MORE than they already do, not based on monetary accounts alone but percentege wise, the rich still pay unporportionally high taxes so we can make boom boom while the youth of this country are drooling over themselves in public education. Personally, I think both Kerry and Bush are crackpots and this election is depressing to me....

L
 
DeltaGuy
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RE: Christian/Far Right Groups Feel Left Out Of RNC

Thu Sep 02, 2004 7:46 am

B757300,

I too am a Christian Convservative, and I don't feel one bit left out. I think the party is smart by showing McCain and Arnold, it's sorta preacing to some of the undecided people, or many of the moderates...if you want to win an election, you win it by getting those swing voters. The very Right-wing people aren't going anywhere, there is nowhere else TO go. I think the party strategy is doing pretty good right now, if they can just keep it up.

FLYYUL, your completely brainwashed post was astounding. Where shall we start?
1) Think of all those AMERICANS who were killed HERE. I think that issue is to be addressed first, before talking about us killing many people elsewhere, who may just happen to deserve it, right or wrong.

2) Jesus didn't say anything about healthcare or social security- none of this existed in His time on earth obviously. What he did preach about was giving to the poor, but out of the kindness of your own heart, for a sense of love for your brother...he did not say let the government automatically take from you to give to others. Many of those 50 million people also can help themselves get what they need- they're just too damned lazy.

Let's look at a few things the liberals do which is anti-Christian. Remember, 80-85% of Christians are Republican, and for good reason.

1) Abortion- let's not even start, you know where it goes- MURDER.

2) Gay rights- Again, clearly cut in the Bible as a despicable and unnatural act. Anyone recall Soddom and Gommorah?

3) Taking the faith-based ideas out of our society- censorship. There was once a day in this nation when you could pray in school- not just pray to the Christian God, but pray in general...those children who didn't want to, well they could just sit there. In the late 90's, I had a hard time taking my simple Bible to public high school! I believe in seperation of church and state, but they go way too far- almost deleting it from the map.

And to cut it down very simply, apart from religion, things like gun ownership, and keeping what you earn (instead of giving it all in taxes, which in turn goes to the lower-earning population), and military defense, are all parts of the original, basic American right. Our founding fathers ensured that we would have these freedoms, as they did not want this nation to resemble the nation we seperated from (UK). The liberal idea of governmental control almost rehashes the idea of a Britich monarchy, or even to go so far as reinstitute a Socialist society. The idea of centralized this and centralized that, as well as even salary distribution, it sure smells like Karl Marx to me.

I'm just glad you're not able to vote here in the US- we already have too many people thinking your way as it is.

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
mdsh00
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RE: Christian/Far Right Groups Feel Left Out Of RNC

Thu Sep 02, 2004 8:31 am

In the late 90's, I had a hard time taking my simple Bible to public high school!

Exaggerating a bit arent we? I went to a public high school too, and a religiously diverse one too. I knew plenty of people that brought Bibles to school. There was even a Christian ministry that met before or after school. I.E. The school had no problem with it.
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
 
vaman
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RE: Christian/Far Right Groups Feel Left Out Of RNC

Thu Sep 02, 2004 8:51 am

"Gay rights- Again, clearly cut in the Bible as a despicable and unnatural act. Anyone recall Soddom and Gommorah?"

Hmm...you people always have to throw that in don't you. Can you briefly explain to me something i've never understood DeltaGuy. I really am trying to understand why christian conservatives feel it is THEIR duty to activley discriminate against fellow man. I always thought the bible, and jesus said that judgement shall only be made once , by god. In the bible, early figures went maurading around killing non christians, hell, i think we should revive that too while we're at it. It's been a while since there was an inquisition, about due for another, that way you could wipe out all the gays and non christians. I mean you people are hilarious. I take solice in knowing that if there is a god YOU people will be getting judged with the rest of us. Aren't there bigger issues than gay rights. I mean, i believe some middle ground can be reached.




L
 
flyyul
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RE: Christian/Far Right Groups Feel Left Out Of RNC

Thu Sep 02, 2004 8:55 am

1.) Bush committed murder.. there is no way around this concept. His illinformed evidence led to direct murder of many thousands innocent persons. Murder and wars are generally not accepted by the Christian god, especially unjustified.

One thing... you never fight fire with fire. Sept.11 was a terrible tragedy, and absolutely inexcusable. But have you considered that peace and diplomacy could be a more effective tool than killing many innocent people, who will be the future terrorists of the world..

In the Book of Romans it is CLEARLY WRITTEN that bread does better than the sword.

2.) Jesus gave plenty of philosophy that goes just beyond his simple words. Jesus promoted equality, feeding and giving back to the poor. Jesus was extremely forgiving and accepting, of all sinners, no matter what the sin was. Of course these can be applied to health care, and general societal common sense.

3.) "Many of those 50 million people also can help themselves get what they need- they're just too damned lazy"

-What a beautiful generalization, o' wise Christian person. You deserve the order of intelligence.

Abortion and Gay Marriages are NOT more important than social inequalities, greed, war, health care, and general human rights that conservatives DONT like to acknowledge or uphold.

Like I said.. you may need more bible school to help you understand the meaning of christianity. Christianity.. follower of Christ. Way to set the example  Big grin

I wish there were more liberal christians in this world  Sad







 
flyyul
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RE: Christian/Far Right Groups Feel Left Out Of RNC

Thu Sep 02, 2004 8:57 am

Excellent post Vaman.

Although Jesus was never accepting of sin, he accepted the sinner and gave them hope. Unfortunately, the conservative right wing christian movement (just like it was in the 50's with the black/white racial tensions), cannot accept that they should not pass judgment.

In fact, judgment is another of those deadly sins... argh

 
Matt D
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RE: Christian/Far Right Groups Feel Left Out Of RNC

Thu Sep 02, 2004 9:05 am

One thing... you never fight fire with fire. Sept.11 was a terrible tragedy, and absolutely inexcusable. But have you considered that peace and diplomacy could be a more effective tool

I disagree.

We gave peace and diplomacy a chance.

It failed.


Badly.


If I was Bush, I would've gone live on CNN and announced to the [Islamic] world that they have 48 hours to find and hand Bin Laden and Co. to the US.

When the deadline passed with no Osama (which you know it would have) I would've sent an F-16 over to Mecca and reduced that rock that everyone on those Haji missions bow down to to kitty litter rubble.

 
flyyul
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RE: Christian/Far Right Groups Feel Left Out Of RNC

Thu Sep 02, 2004 9:10 am

... im talking about Iraq.

iraq had nothing to do with 09.11.. i am not defending the evil betrayer of human rights Saddam here.. but dont pick and choose your battles.

If Saddam needs to go, so then does the guy in N.Korea, Syria, Libya, Sudan, Rwanda, Cuba etc.. they are all dictators and abusers of human rights.

 
vaman
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RE: Christian/Far Right Groups Feel Left Out Of RNC

Thu Sep 02, 2004 9:23 am

Apparently i'm the only moderate left on this planet. I believe that a forceful response to the terror attacks and to Al Qaeda was very necessary to both avenge and to detur. On Iraq, while i'm thrilled to death that Saddamn is out of there and he was a loon, we bit of quite a lot more than we could chew. As far as bombing mecca into submition, well, that is has to be one of the MOST ignorant and stupid things i've ever heard in my life. There could at least be an argument, however weak, for bombing Riyahd(weak) or Tehran(weaker) or Kabul(during taliban), baghad, etc. But mecca? Hmm. another causualty to the idea that muslim=ahqmed the rag headed terrorist. And another thing, why do you feel it is the muslim community to turn over osama. That would be like someone expecting the christian community to take the responsiblity of turning in Eric Rudolf or some other KKK/neo-nazi wako.

L
 
flyyul
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RE: Christian/Far Right Groups Feel Left Out Of RNC

Thu Sep 02, 2004 9:31 am

I dare any Bush defender, to go to Iraq, and but himself in harm's way.. exactly for what cause? I also urge you to speak to the families of INNOCENT victims of this atrocity.

Ive heard a lot of testimony and have the world of sympathy and prayers for the 9.11 families, but let us Christian hear what the poor Muslim mothers have to say about their dead kids.

 
Matt D
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RE: Christian/Far Right Groups Feel Left Out Of RNC

Thu Sep 02, 2004 9:34 am

what the poor Muslim mothers have to say about their dead kids.

You mean the ones that are being taught to hate the American Infidels? That by killing these so-called infidels that paradise and 17 (or however many) virgins will be awaiting them?

I wouldn't give a pitcher of spit for them.
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: Christian/Far Right Groups Feel Left Out Of RNC

Thu Sep 02, 2004 10:23 am

1.) Thou shall not murder, means not electing democratically a president who has killed thousands of people oversees, many of them are justified, most are UNJISTIFIED.... and that is murder, and you are guilty of murder through your vote.

Accepting the right to bear arms means more murder. A simple equation .. more guns, more murders.


Pro choice advocates anyone????

2.) Was Jesus a man who appreciated an elitist society, where the rich are rich, and the poor are poor.. what do you think Jesus would have to say about a greedy society where 50 million people dont have basic access to health care.

Christianity and Republican conservative way of thought are at the opposite end of the philosophical scale, yet both are synonymous, how the hell did that ever happen?


It's a question of which party has a better value system. Jesus wasn't for do what you want, when you want and how you want.

3.) Was Jesus liberal, or conservative.

God darn it, pick up a bible and read it over.. for the love of god please do.


He was neither and I've read it several times, cover to cover.

1.) Bush committed murder.. there is no way around this concept. His illinformed evidence led to direct murder of many thousands innocent persons. Murder and wars are generally not accepted by the Christian god, especially unjustified.

One thing... you never fight fire with fire. Sept.11 was a terrible tragedy, and absolutely inexcusable. But have you considered that peace and diplomacy could be a more effective tool than killing many innocent people, who will be the future terrorists of the world..

In the Book of Romans it is CLEARLY WRITTEN that bread does better than the sword.


So we should negotiate with Satan? You do realize Mohammad is oen of those false prophets that Christ himself specifically warned against.

2.) Jesus gave plenty of philosophy that goes just beyond his simple words. Jesus promoted equality, feeding and giving back to the poor. Jesus was extremely forgiving and accepting, of all sinners, no matter what the sin was. Of course these can be applied to health care, and general societal common sense.

Health care has nothing to do with it and given the success in Canada it would be more of a problem than a solution.

I wish there were more liberal christians in this world

The reason there aren't is because the liberals turned their backs on those of faith and jump at every opportunity to slap us in the face. I grew up a Democrat until Reagan was elected. That was when the shift took place. Democrats went with a Pro-Choice platform, alignment with the Christian bashing ACLU, the list is quite long.

 
flyyul
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RE: Christian/Far Right Groups Feel Left Out Of RNC

Thu Sep 02, 2004 11:17 am

1.) "Pro choice advocates anyone????"

-Not when that choice could save the lives of many innocent people who die with a bullet in their heads, each year in the streets of America.

Columbine anyone?

2.) "So we should negotiate with Satan? You do realize Mohammad is oen of those false prophets that Christ himself specifically warned against"

-what are you trying to accomplish by this? If Muslims want to believe let them. Its not up to you to change their minds. We have our faith and leave it at that.

3.) "It's a question of which party has a better value system. Jesus wasn't for do what you want, when you want and how you want."

-Absolutely. But he didnt sponsor elitist right-wing politics. He hated tax collectors, and hated the rich. He continually asked rich followers to give everything that they had back to the poor and bear their "crosses" in the jounrye with Jesus. He accepted minorities, asked all to seek a higher purpose than worldy pleasures.

Jesus was far from right-wing.. in fact you can argue his philosophy was the complete opposite.

4.) "Health care has nothing to do with it and given the success in Canada it would be more of a problem than a solution."

-I personally believe that Health Care is a universal right. I believe in a public and private system.

5.) "The reason there aren't is because the liberals turned their backs on those of faith and jump at every opportunity to slap us in the face. I grew up a Democrat until Reagan was elected. That was when the shift took place. Democrats went with a Pro-Choice platform, alignment with the Christian bashing ACLU, the list is quite long."

-Im not arguing for any party.

Im arguing over religious belief interferring with politics. Personally, my position is that if you are right-wing, you are have not fully understood the philosophies and morals of Jesus.

ANd ive got over 50-100 bible quotation which will prove it, if you care to continue this debate  Smile








 
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Aaron747
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RE: Christian/Far Right Groups Feel Left Out Of RNC

Thu Sep 02, 2004 1:44 pm

The basic problem here is too many people claiming to call themselves devout anything are nationalist/whatever first, adherents to their faith second. Somewhere in their convoluted minds, the two mesh and become one. That's what's got most bad situations in the world where they are in the first place. It's an unfortunate precedent of history.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
gigneil
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RE: Christian/Far Right Groups Feel Left Out Of RNC

Thu Sep 02, 2004 2:14 pm

2) Gay rights- Again, clearly cut in the Bible as a despicable and unnatural act. Anyone recall Soddom and Gommorah?


You're not a very good Christian, are you?

If you were, you'd know that Jesus died for the sins of the gays, as well as everyone else. Same reason you can eat shrimp and play football.

Stop picking the parts of the bible that apply to things that you don't like. It makes you look weak and pathetic.

But the bottom line is religion has no place in government. You and I don't believe the same things, so why should your morals apply to me?

If you believe your morals have to apply to me, you're not a conservative. You're a Nazi.

N
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Christian/Far Right Groups Feel Left Out Of RNC

Thu Sep 02, 2004 2:17 pm

^
best. post. on. topic. EVER.

But the bottom line is religion has no place in government. You and I don't believe the same things, so why should your morals apply to me?

this needs to be repeated again, and again, and again. but watch - here comes the flurry of slippery slope fallacies...
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
flyyul
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RE: Christian/Far Right Groups Feel Left Out Of RNC

Thu Sep 02, 2004 2:23 pm

I see that many christian conservatives have refused to comment further in depth on this thread.. a real shame.

 
Logan22L
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RE: Christian/Far Right Groups Feel Left Out Of RNC

Thu Sep 02, 2004 11:26 pm


For the love of GOD, the bible is a BOOK. It's written by people who INTERPRETED. Do you really believe that Adam and Eve existed??? It's allegorical for crying out loud. Do any of you understand that there are several BOOKS out there that different factions see as TRUTH??? There is only one truth, and it's not in Book #3 as opposed to Book #5, or a religion here as opposed to there...Lemmings, fools, everyone makes me sick.

Logan
"The deeper you go, the higher you fly. The higher you fly, the deeper you go."
 
TWFirst
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RE: Christian/Far Right Groups Feel Left Out Of RNC

Fri Sep 03, 2004 12:03 am

Logan22L: Hallelujah! (pun intended) Big grin

Finally, the voice of reason!! Thank you!
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: Christian/Far Right Groups Feel Left Out Of RNC

Fri Sep 03, 2004 12:09 am

For the love of GOD, the bible is a BOOK. It's written by people who INTERPRETED. Do you really believe that Adam and Eve existed??? It's allegorical for crying out loud. Do any of you understand that there are several BOOKS out there that different factions see as TRUTH??? There is only one truth, and it's not in Book #3 as opposed to Book #5, or a religion here as opposed to there...Lemmings, fools, everyone makes me sick.

Thank you for your agnostic viewpoint. Now move on.
 
Logan22L
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RE: Christian/Far Right Groups Feel Left Out Of RNC

Fri Sep 03, 2004 12:14 am


Boeing7E7: I am far from being an agnostic. I simply can't understand how people can subscribe to a religion that excludes others. Makes no sense - believe us and you're saved, believe them and live in eternal damnation. I won't move on, either - this is the source of 90% of evil and death in this world, so I think it deserves a bit more than the perfunctory treatment you have given it.

Logan
"The deeper you go, the higher you fly. The higher you fly, the deeper you go."
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: Christian/Far Right Groups Feel Left Out Of RNC

Fri Sep 03, 2004 12:37 am

When someone proves something in the Bible inaccurate using fact not theory, then we'll talk. As far as being exclusionary... You either believe or you don't. We don't do the excluding, those who choose not to believe exclude themselves and are forever calling believers exclusive, ignorant and wrong. It's by design. It's really quite simple to understand if you are a believer.
 
Logan22L
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RE: Christian/Far Right Groups Feel Left Out Of RNC

Fri Sep 03, 2004 12:55 am


So, "your" bible is the right one, and "their" bible is wrong? People of other faiths probably would say the same thing you said in reply #31: you're free to believe in what we believe, not what you believe, then you're saved. As far as proving the bible inaccurate goes, it is of no consequence to me. It was not written by God or by Jesus, it was written by men, many of whom lived years after the death and resurrection of Jesus. Yes, I do believe in that; I just think he would be appalled at the way the message has been implemented.

Logan
"The deeper you go, the higher you fly. The higher you fly, the deeper you go."
 
TWFirst
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RE: Christian/Far Right Groups Feel Left Out Of RNC

Fri Sep 03, 2004 1:00 am

>>It's really quite simple to understand if you are a believer.<<

Of course it is... because you just accept all the tenets of your religion and don't do any thinking or questioning for yourself... By its very nature, organized religion and its tenets are not based on reason or logic or science... it's faith based. You just accept it, even if it doesn't make any sense. Basically, your religion is based on the following:

An omnipotent being, who always existed and always will, decided to create the universe. So it did it in a week. And then it decided to create a senchant species of primates in its image, and although it already knew this species was going to piss it off (because the very nature of being omnipotent means it is all-powerful and all-knowing), it created the species anyway. But when the species did piss it off, it told the species that it was going to be damned to eternal suffering unless the species offered it a sacrifice to make up for pissing it off. But because the species didn't have anything that would make up for how bad it pissed the omnipotent being off, the omnipotent being magically impregnated a female member of the species so that a half-man, half-ominpotent being could hang out on earth for awhile and teach everyone what to do. Then, the species tortured and killed the half-man/half-omnipotent being because he pissed them off, although they didn't realize that what they were actually doing was sacrificing him to the omnipotent being to make up for pissing it off, this having a chance at eternal pleasure. Afterwards, everyone who believes that this all really happened, and who also believe a certain interpretation of a collection of writings that the species wrote over hundreds of year, can have that eternally pleasurable afterlife... those that don't are going to wish they never existed, although they didn't have any choice in being created in the first place.


NOW, YOU'RE TELLING MEA Middle East Airlines (Lebanon)">ME THAT THAT MAKES SENSE TO YOU???
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Christian/Far Right Groups Feel Left Out Of RNC

Fri Sep 03, 2004 1:27 am

7E7: So we should negotiate with Satan? You do realize Mohammad is one of those false prophets that Christ himself specifically warned against.

Matt d: You mean the ones that are being taught to hate the American Infidels? That by killing these so-called infidels that paradise and 17 (or however many) virgins will be awaiting them?

I thought it was about WMDs, democracy, human rights and terrorism but apparently we're back in the age of crusades again...
 
vaman
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RE: Christian/Far Right Groups Feel Left Out Of RNC

Fri Sep 03, 2004 4:17 am

"When someone proves something in the Bible inaccurate using fact not theory, then we'll talk"

So you expect people to believe in the bible based on faith, but others can question you about your non-fact based beliefs is they provide facts to disprove it. And, with my small knowledge of the bible and larger knowledge of fact i'm sure i could find at least ONE thing that is wrong, and use fact to disprove it.

PROVE to me that Soddomn and G. where destroyed because of the gays. PROVE it to me. PROVE to me that the "flood" came because of the evilness of man. PROVE to me that there is a heaven. You can't. So why should anyone have to prove anything to you in order to have the "pleasure" of arguing with you. haha. You people.

L
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: Christian/Far Right Groups Feel Left Out Of RNC

Fri Sep 03, 2004 4:35 am

Aren't these the same Christians who drafted the GOP plank to ban ALL abortions and to disregard any form of legal unions between gays which include civil unions, inheritance contracts, and visitation rights? (We're not even talking marriage here, just visitation rights !)

And these nasty obnoxious people who drafted this nasty obnoxious agenda feel left out?

Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: Christian/Far Right Groups Feel Left Out Of RNC

Fri Sep 03, 2004 4:57 am

PROVE to me that Soddomn and G. where destroyed because of the gays.

Thanks for showing the gibberish that gets taken out of context from the Bible time and time again. Don't listen to the gibberish of a small minority of fundamentalists. Read on Sodom and Gomorrah for yourself. The reason Christians are opposed to Homosexuality amoung other things:

http://www.lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=524

Aren't these the same Christians who drafted the GOP plank to ban ALL abortions and to disregard any form of legal unions between gays which include civil unions, inheritance contracts, and visitation rights? (We're not even talking marriage here, just visitation rights !)

And these nasty obnoxious people who drafted this nasty obnoxious agenda feel left out?


See above Sir King of Stereotypification.

So, "your" bible is the right one, and "their" bible is wrong?

According to the Bible... Yes:

Revelation 22:18 which reads, "If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book. And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part of the book of life."


[Edited 2004-09-02 22:10:20]
 
mdsh00
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Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 11:28 am

RE: Christian/Far Right Groups Feel Left Out Of RNC

Fri Sep 03, 2004 5:16 am

When someone proves something in the Bible inaccurate using fact not theory, then we'll talk.

Oh there are so many things that are wrong in the Bible. If you took an extensive course in the sciences, youd know that most of Genesis is bunk. When will you "believers" start realizing that mindlessly following every written word in your Bible isn't the same as actualy following the teachings behind the words?

It's my belief that a lot of people today are brainwashed into that "my God is better than your God and you will burn in hell if you don't believe exactly how I do" thnking. For me, religion is a handbook to living life, and for me to assume that others who don't see it like I do are condemned...well thats just arrogant and judgemental.

Back to the topic: the RNC was right in keeping the fringe away since the goal of the convention is to attract moderates.

by the way, B757300, why dont you come back on this thread and back yourself up?
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: Christian/Far Right Groups Feel Left Out Of RNC

Fri Sep 03, 2004 5:20 am

Oh there are so many things that are wrong in the Bible. If you took an extensive course in the sciences, youd know that most of Genesis is bunk. When will you "believers" start realizing that mindlessly following every written word in your Bible isn't the same as actualy following the teachings behind the words?

Based on which facts? Good luck and congrats for being a lemming to your professor. By the way, while you took "a class" some people have devoted their lives to it:

http://www.icr.org/

Try again Mr. one class expert.


[Edited 2004-09-02 22:21:38]
 
TWFirst
Posts: 5752
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RE: Christian/Far Right Groups Feel Left Out Of RNC

Fri Sep 03, 2004 5:44 am

Boeing7E7: You didn't answer whether the following makes sense to you (I'm sure we already know the answer):

An omnipotent being, who always existed and always will, decided to create the universe. So it did it in a week. Then it decided to create a senchant species of primates who resembled it, and although it already knew this species was going to piss it off (because the very nature of being omnipotent means it is all-powerful and all-knowing), it created the species anyway. But when the species did piss it off, it (the o.b.) told the species that it (the species) would be damned to eternal suffering unless the species offered it a sacrifice to make up for pissing it off. But because the species didn't have anything that would make up for how badly the omnipotent being was pissed off, the omnipotent being magically impregnated a female member of the species so that a half-man, half-ominpotent being could hang out on earth for awhile and teach everyone what to do. Then, the species tortured and killed the half-man/half-omnipotent being because he pissed them off, although they didn't realize that what they were actually doing was sacrificing him to the omnipotent being to make up for pissing it off, thus allowing the species to have a chance at eternal pleasure. Afterwards, everyone who believes that this all really happened, and who also believe certain interpretations (including yours, Boeing7E7) of a collection of writings that members of the species wrote over hundreds of years, can have that eternally pleasurable afterlife... those that don't are going to wish they never existed, although they didn't have any choice in being created in the first place.


An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
Logan22L
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RE: Christian/Far Right Groups Feel Left Out Of RNC

Fri Sep 03, 2004 5:52 am

So, "your" bible is the right one, and "their" bible is wrong?

According to the Bible... Yes:

Revelation 22:18 which reads, "If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book. And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part of the book of life."


Just another example of the scare tactics used to make people believe, or else.
"The deeper you go, the higher you fly. The higher you fly, the deeper you go."
 
mdsh00
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Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 11:28 am

RE: Christian/Far Right Groups Feel Left Out Of RNC

Fri Sep 03, 2004 6:46 am

One class expert?

Before you start talking $hit, maybe you should get to know me a little better. I didn't take one class, this was my MAJOR at UCLA. And what do you do? You think by reading biased articles by creationists proves your way of thinking?

Any geological record and carbon ddating will tell you that the Earth was NOT created in 7-8 days. Look at a panda's "thumb" and you will understand how natural selection works. Take a class in molecular biology and you'll see how minor mutations create variation in populations. Atavistic structures like the appendix and a whale's pelvis are major clues of evolution happening.

*Darwin does not say that humans came from monkeys.
*evolution is NOT "survival of the fittest"
*evolution still does not have an answer for the origin of life.
*evolution is a theory, but a scientific theory is not the same as a regular old theory. Gravity and Relativity are still technically "theories"

I'm afraid that this site might be too "liberal" for you but you should take a look at it: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/

What's sad is that narrowminded people like you bash anything and anyone that doesn't agree with you.
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: Christian/Far Right Groups Feel Left Out Of RNC

Fri Sep 03, 2004 6:51 am

"And these nasty obnoxious people who drafted this nasty obnoxious agenda feel left out?

See above Sir King of Stereotypification."

As you were saying, ye prince of ignorance? And these nasty obnoxious people feel left out because? They wrote the GOP plank denying ANY rights to gays? Because they are firmly in control of the GOP? Why do they feel left out?

Or is it just that you're incapable of understanding the English language?
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 5434
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:12 am

RE: Christian/Far Right Groups Feel Left Out Of RNC

Fri Sep 03, 2004 8:04 am

I'm only waiting for 7E7 to claim that Earth is flat with Sun spinning around it...  Confused
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Christian/Far Right Groups Feel Left Out Of RNC

Fri Sep 03, 2004 8:22 am

This topic has gotten off course a bit.

N
 
Boeing7E7
Posts: 5512
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2004 9:35 pm

RE: Christian/Far Right Groups Feel Left Out Of RNC

Fri Sep 03, 2004 11:49 pm

Before you start talking $hit, maybe you should get to know me a little better. I didn't take one class, this was my MAJOR at UCLA. And what do you do? You think by reading biased articles by creationists proves your way of thinking?

Oooh Aahhh UCLA!!! Hurray for Hollywood. You learned well. Glad to see you put you education to uselesness. Figures though. Liberal Arts pukes usually end up liberals complaining about life for eternity because their always behind the eight ball.

This site will debunk about half the crap you studied so hard for in School, and the other half is coming:

http://www.icr.org/

An omnipotent being, who always existed and always will, decided to create the universe. So it did it in a week. Then it decided to create a senchant species of primates who resembled it, and although it already knew this species was going to piss it off (because the very nature of being omnipotent means it is all-powerful and all-knowing), it created the species anyway. But when the species did piss it off, it (the o.b.) told the species that it (the species) would be damned to eternal suffering unless the species offered it a sacrifice to make up for pissing it off. But because the species didn't have anything that would make up for how badly the omnipotent being was pissed off, the omnipotent being magically impregnated a female member of the species so that a half-man, half-ominpotent being could hang out on earth for awhile and teach everyone what to do. Then, the species tortured and killed the half-man/half-omnipotent being because he pissed them off, although they didn't realize that what they were actually doing was sacrificing him to the omnipotent being to make up for pissing it off, thus allowing the species to have a chance at eternal pleasure. Afterwards, everyone who believes that this all really happened, and who also believe certain interpretations (including yours, Boeing7E7) of a collection of writings that members of the species wrote over hundreds of years, can have that eternally pleasurable afterlife... those that don't are going to wish they never existed, although they didn't have any choice in being created in the first place.

Wow.... Making a mockery of the Bible. Must be tough for you in life. Such hatred.







 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Christian/Far Right Groups Feel Left Out Of RNC

Sat Sep 04, 2004 12:03 am

I cannot believe there are still people out there who believe in Creationism ! Hellloooo !! Have the last 400 years of scientific progress not made a dent ?

BTW Boeing7E7 - it's not hatred. It's pity.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
Boeing7E7
Posts: 5512
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RE: Christian/Far Right Groups Feel Left Out Of RNC

Sat Sep 04, 2004 12:13 am

It's all theory. It's a pity it's accepted as fact.
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Christian/Far Right Groups Feel Left Out Of RNC

Sat Sep 04, 2004 12:30 am

It may be a theory, but at least its plausible, based on observable facts, and stands up to examination (as opposed to the "If you don't believe what I tell you, I'll have you burned at the stake" method of scientific instruction)

Believe what you like, it doesn't alter reality one little tiny bit.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers

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