Pe@rson
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Could A 12-year-old Consent To Full Sex?

Thu Sep 09, 2004 7:19 am

Do you think a 12-year-old has sufficient maturity or understanding or whatever to be able to consent to penetrative sex?
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
alcregular
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RE: Could A 12-year-old Consent To Full Sex?

Thu Sep 09, 2004 7:23 am

Ooh, don't like the sound of this.

Why, what plans do you have tonight?

[Edited 2004-09-09 00:25:10]
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Tristar100
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RE: Could A 12-year-old Consent To Full Sex?

Thu Sep 09, 2004 7:23 am

Simple answer - No!

What are your thoughts? I have just heard the story that are reffering to.

Steve.
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Could A 12-year-old Consent To Full Sex?

Thu Sep 09, 2004 7:36 am

LOL not a 12-year-old and a 22-year-old (i.e. me!) lol. I read that a 12-year-old could not understand what sex is about and so could not really consent to it, hence my thread.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
777236ER
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RE: Could A 12-year-old Consent To Full Sex?

Thu Sep 09, 2004 7:36 am

Yes.

Signed.....too obvious.
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Tristar100
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RE: Could A 12-year-old Consent To Full Sex?

Thu Sep 09, 2004 7:41 am

Pearson,

Are you reffering to the story of an 18yr old who admitted twice having sex with a 12yr old girl and he was spared jail?

Steve.
 
AvObserver
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RE: Could A 12-year-old Consent To Full Sex?

Thu Sep 09, 2004 7:41 am

NOT where I live! A 12-year old, despite whatever physical maturity he or she may possess, is still emotionally MOSTLY a child. Though kids that age and younger often do have sex, it's just wrong, especially when initiated by an adult. Such adults are degenerates in my book and beneath contempt. I didn't hear this 'story' referred to but I sincerely hope you've no thoughts in this direction, PE@rson. If you do, I've two words for you: Michael Jackson! You don't want to go there.
 
UAL747
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RE: Could A 12-year-old Consent To Full Sex?

Thu Sep 09, 2004 7:42 am

Hmmmm.....I dunno, twelve is a bit young, with another consenting minor, I guess it's legal, but with an adult, NO WAY IN HELL!

UAL747
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Tristar100
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RE: Could A 12-year-old Consent To Full Sex?

Thu Sep 09, 2004 7:48 am

AvObserver,

How about another two words? Jonathan King! did he buy Gary Glitters computer?

Steve.
 
zak
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RE: Could A 12-year-old Consent To Full Sex?

Thu Sep 09, 2004 7:51 am

i dont think that playin nurse+docter and shootin doggy waters has ever been a problem, i'd guess people who do not get into sexuality in a playing way at an age before 10 are the ones that start molesting kids etc later on because they didnt get a good natural feeling for sex.
so to answer your question: sex between 12 year olds? hell yes if more kids did it there would be alot less sexual offenders i am sure.
10=2
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Could A 12-year-old Consent To Full Sex?

Thu Sep 09, 2004 7:52 am

LOL. I shouldn't have posted this while a little tipsy. But IT'S NOT ABOUT MEA Middle East Airlines (Lebanon)">ME! It was in a newspaper today. Do you think a 12-year-old girl could understand all the issues about sex? Do you think she would be sufficiently mature?
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
Tristar100
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RE: Could A 12-year-old Consent To Full Sex?

Thu Sep 09, 2004 7:57 am

Zak,

If you had a 12yr old daughter would you let her with an 18 yr old?

I'll bring your point up tomorrow night at a meeting, will let you now the reaction.

Steve.
 
flyf15
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RE: Could A 12-year-old Consent To Full Sex?

Thu Sep 09, 2004 8:00 am

Well, in the show "Beavis and Butthead", they're in 7th grade, so probably about 12 or so. And we all know what they think about it....
 
777236ER
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RE: Could A 12-year-old Consent To Full Sex?

Thu Sep 09, 2004 8:04 am

An interesting fact is that socially right wing people will immediately dismiss the idea that a 12 year old (girl, anyway) can consent to sex in any way, but will automatically condemn a 12 year old who has killed someone to an adult trial, and declare them wholly responsible, as an adult will be.
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AvObserver
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RE: Could A 12-year-old Consent To Full Sex?

Thu Sep 09, 2004 8:23 am

Sorry, Stece, I'm unfamiliar with either Mr. King or Mr. Glitters. I used Michael as an example because he WAS an international star before his fall from grace. Though allegations against him remain unproven, it's disturbing enough he's paid out millions in settlements, And the way he talks about kids - CREEPY!

Zak, I don't follow your logic at all. Kids THAT age aren't nature enough to know what they're doing, including using protection. You CAN'T allow kids that young to have actual sex; they don't have a true perception of the potential consequences.

Pe@rson. many 12-year old girls ARE sufficiently mature enough to INITIATE sex with an older guy; a lot of them grow up very quickly these days. That doesn't make it any more okay to ALLOW them to do it, however. Regardless of how much they may well understand, however, they are still below legal age in most Western cultures, anyway, and still fairly emotionally immature. Just because a 12 year old may come onto a guy like Mae West and has supermodel curves, along with DD breasts, as many do, doesn't mean she isn't, for all intents and purposes, still a child.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Could A 12-year-old Consent To Full Sex?

Thu Sep 09, 2004 8:38 am

An interesting fact is that socially right wing people will immediately dismiss the idea that a 12 year old (girl, anyway) can consent to sex in any way, but will automatically condemn a 12 year old who has killed someone to an adult trial, and declare them wholly responsible, as an adult will be.

Just might be 'interesting', where it actually a 'fact'  Insane
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Blackbird1331
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RE: Could A 12-year-old Consent To Full Sex?

Thu Sep 09, 2004 8:45 am

Go read a good book. Preferably one about flying.
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zak
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RE: Could A 12-year-old Consent To Full Sex?

Thu Sep 09, 2004 8:48 am

"If you had a 12yr old daughter would you let her with an 18 yr old?"

yes, in 8 years of time i'd have no problem with it. age difference matters alot in this case, as you have a large difference in development, the younger a person is the bigger the differences are naturally. so while 6 years mean alot in teens, when you are a 20 year old girl i see absolutely no problem with dating a 26 year old guy.

"Zak, I don't follow your logic at all. Kids THAT age aren't nature enough to know what they're doing, including using protection. You CAN'T allow kids that young to have actual sex; they don't have a true perception of the potential consequences."

actually, according to freud, sexuality starts ~12-13 years of age. just because some societies think that sexuality is unacceptable at that age does not make it a fact.

" including using protection."
why do you assume that 12 year olds dont know how to use condoms and such? every 12 year old knows(or should know) about sexuality, preferable explained in an open context by their parents. that usually does include dangers of std's and kids, which should naturally also teach the use of proper protection.
apart from that, what would they need protection for? virgin girls and lads playing the exciting games wont get them any std's cause i dont see 12 year old kids as hiv risk group.
and most pregnancies come from kids playing around without being properly instructed by parents before cause they were prudes and thought that abstinence is best or so.
10=2
 
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RE: Could A 12-year-old Consent To Full Sex?

Thu Sep 09, 2004 8:51 am

actually, according to freud, sexuality starts ~12-13 years of age. just because some societies think that sexuality is unacceptable at that age does not make it a fact.

Sigmund Fraud's...errr, FREUD'S opinion doesn't make it a fact either, though.
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777236ER
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RE: Could A 12-year-old Consent To Full Sex?

Thu Sep 09, 2004 8:52 am

Just might be 'interesting', where it actually a 'fact'

But you can't deny there are quite a few people who would think that way, at least if the scenarios are isolated. If a 12 year old can't consent to sex they can't be wholly responsible for murder, and if a 12 year old can consent to sex they can be wholly responsible for murder, surely?
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Blackbird1331
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RE: Could A 12-year-old Consent To Full Sex?

Thu Sep 09, 2004 9:24 am

Go read a book. Preferably one about aviation.
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September11
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RE: Could A 12-year-old Consent To Full Sex?

Thu Sep 09, 2004 10:00 am

Question:

Could A 12-year-old Consent To Full Sex?

Answer:

Yes! This is 2004, come on....

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N766UA
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RE: Could A 12-year-old Consent To Full Sex?

Thu Sep 09, 2004 10:22 am

Not if the other person is over 18. Legal consensual age seldom goes below 16. 12... now that's just sick. Come to think of it, why the hell are you asking?
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KCmike
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RE: Could A 12-year-old Consent To Full Sex?

Thu Sep 09, 2004 10:23 am

Thats a little young to have that on your mind. But I see some girls who look like their in high school as far as "maturity". but I ask them and here that they really are just 12.

Its a different world we live in these days
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Usairwys757
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RE: Could A 12-year-old Consent To Full Sex?

Thu Sep 09, 2004 11:10 am

Looks like Pe@rson will be in Cell Block D right alongside SAS220.  Laugh out loud
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JBirdAV8r
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RE: Could A 12-year-old Consent To Full Sex?

Thu Sep 09, 2004 11:39 am

Question:

Could A 12-year-old Consent To Full Sex?

Answer:

Yes! This is 2004, come on....


You're fucking 26-35....sick bastard. Sick, sick bastard.

Burn in Hell with SAS23.
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vaporlock
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RE: Could A 12-year-old Consent To Full Sex?

Thu Sep 09, 2004 12:00 pm

Good God....what next! This question shouldn't even need to be asked!

Being a female myself....the answer is definately NO!

I don't care how mature you think a 12 year old can be, they are still only 12 years old. They may look older than 12 but for God sakes..........let them be kids. The whole problem with society today is push, push, push. What the heck is the big rush?????

I know when I was 12 years old I was still climbing trees, riding my horse and playing dolls! What the hell is happening to society. Sex never entered my mind until I was a lot older.

Rather than wondering if a 12 year old is mature enough to consent to full sex, we should be teaching some morals. Any guy that would have sex with a 12 year old has to be sick in the head!!!!!!!!!!!

Phyllis  Wink/being sarcastic



 
prosa
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RE: Could A 12-year-old Consent To Full Sex?

Thu Sep 09, 2004 12:02 pm

Well, in the show "Beavis and Butthead", they're in 7th grade, so probably about 12 or so. And we all know what they think about it....

I thought they're supposed to be 15.
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AvObserver
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RE: Could A 12-year-old Consent To Full Sex?

Thu Sep 09, 2004 3:15 pm

"If you had a 12yr old daughter would you let her with an 18 yr old?"

"yes, in 8 years of time i'd have no problem with it. age difference matters alot in this case, as you have a large difference in development, the younger a person is the bigger the differences are naturally. so while 6 years mean alot in teens, when you are a 20 year old girl i see absolutely no problem with dating a 26 year old guy"

Zak, that wasn't the question, which was, would you allow a TWELVE year old GIRL have sex with an EIGHTEEN year old GUY? It's fine if a 20 year old WOMAN gets it on with a 26 year old MAN; they're both well over most regions' age of consent. But a TWELVE year old ISN'T, in most Western cultures. In some cultures, it IS acceptable but not usually the more developed ones. And, though 12-year olds may know what a condom is and how to use one, it probably isn't first and foremost on their minds to 'Be Prepared'. Vaporlock is quite right, kids are maturing too fast these days, as it is; let's not push them any faster. Abstinence should be encouraged until the late teens and help avoid the awful pitfalls of teen pregnancy in girls way too young to be responsible, stable mothers. Jeez, let them at least get out of high school, first! Some of the thinking here is a bit TOO progressive for my taste.
 
QIguy24
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RE: Could A 12-year-old Consent To Full Sex?

Thu Sep 09, 2004 3:31 pm

This is a very interesting question Pe@rson. Are you going after EGFFBmi's ex-girlfriend or what?  Big grin
 
pelican
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RE: Could A 12-year-old Consent To Full Sex?

Thu Sep 09, 2004 7:08 pm

This is a very interesting question Pe@rson. Are you going after EGFFBmi's ex-girlfriend or what?
 Big thumbs up  Laugh out loud  Laugh out loud  Big thumbs up

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Pe@rson
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RE: Could A 12-year-old Consent To Full Sex?

Thu Sep 09, 2004 7:10 pm

Haha, it is an important question and it should be asked, for it is now deemed to be rape under English law if anyone over 16-years-old has sex with a girl aged 12 or less. The basis of this is that it is impossible for a girl of that age or less to have the mental ability to comprehend sex and everything about it, like the risks posed by non-protective sex, STDs, etc., and so could not consent to it.

I'm 22. I'd be cool to have a one-night stand with a girl of, say, 16 - nice and fresh and all - but I have a fiancee so I'm not looking.  Wink/being sarcastic LOL.

[Edited 2004-09-09 12:11:49]
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QIguy24
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RE: Could A 12-year-old Consent To Full Sex?

Thu Sep 09, 2004 7:21 pm

Hehe... Nothing beats the "Only watching and no touching phrase" Big grin
You can always get away with that one.

We have exactly the same rules in Denmark. If you screw someone under 12 and you are over 15 you are F*cked up! But it's very difficult to actually know the real age of some of the females. They all wear so much makeup and it makes them look much older then they really are.
 
zak
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RE: Could A 12-year-old Consent To Full Sex?

Thu Sep 09, 2004 7:25 pm

" If you screw someone under 12 and you are over 15 you are F*cked up!"

i think these rules are good, anything under 12 is kids game amongst ppl that should be of the same age.
i think most of the prudes here are just sad that they didnt get to fiddle with the other gender in their early teens
10=2
 
QIguy24
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RE: Could A 12-year-old Consent To Full Sex?

Thu Sep 09, 2004 7:33 pm

Zak,

Don't get me wrong. I think these rules are very good as well. A child at that age isn't fully developed yet so she could get some serious injuries. I don't know about a 16 year old. They are fully developed but they are to young for me. A 18 year old would be nice if I was supposed to have a one night stand.

[Edited 2004-09-09 12:35:31]
 
airtran737
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RE: Could A 12-year-old Consent To Full Sex?

Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:04 am

Well I'm sure that many 12 year olds have consented to sex at Michael Jackson's Never Land Ranch.
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RE: Could A 12-year-old Consent To Full Sex?

Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:15 am

Could A 12-year-old Consent To Full Sex?

Sure, I'd love to consent to that!

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N766UA
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RE: Could A 12-year-old Consent To Full Sex?

Fri Sep 10, 2004 7:21 am

Well, in the show "Beavis and Butthead", they're in 7th grade, so probably about 12 or so. And we all know what they think about it....

Junior High kids think about sex?? OH MY GOD NO WAY!! Stop the presses!

It's dead wrong and anyone who thinks sex with a 12 year old of any gender and maturity level is appropriate they belong with the other a.net pedaphiles in prison.
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zak
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RE: Could A 12-year-old Consent To Full Sex?

Fri Sep 10, 2004 7:35 am

interesting how many people here took the topic as a question in regard to themselves having sex with 12 year olds, especially since it is a very generalizing statement initially
"Do you think a 12-year-old has sufficient maturity or understanding or whatever to be able to consent to penetrative sex?"
i do not see a "who here could imagine having sex with a 12 year old" part in that, so to get to the point, its a question of child development which can be scientifically answered. the three major works of child development(lets leave bandura out since he didnt really achieve anything) are piaget, ericson and freud. they all seem to agree that you develop your desire for sex more or less(depends on the child and the enviroment et cetera) at the age initially mentioned. god forbit sex before marriage, the prudes run rampant, its a no no heaven forbid. yet they are those who read the "do you want to have sex with a kid" into the topic.
10=2
 
Ant72LBA
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RE: Could A 12-year-old Consent To Full Sex?

Fri Sep 10, 2004 8:46 am

If Concorde Boy had ever read a British tabloid (Sun, Star, Express, Mail so we don't get confused) he'd know that it is a fact that there are members of the right who would .........."dismiss the idea that a 12 year old (girl, anyway) can consent to sex in any way, but will automatically condemn a 12 year old who has killed someone to an adult trial, and declare them wholly responsible, as an adult will be".

Personally I wouldn't recommend reading any of the above but would stick to books on aviation!
 
jfkaua
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RE: Could A 12-year-old Consent To Full Sex?

Fri Sep 10, 2004 9:05 am

I am 15 turning on 16 and I think for anyone in hs like me 13 is basically the cutoff
 
luisca
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RE: Could A 12-year-old Consent To Full Sex?

Fri Sep 10, 2004 9:45 am

Sexuality untill about 12 is mainly competitive, girls compete against boys and viceversa, they ussually join groups of all boys and all girls and boys view girls as dumb, girls view boys as dum. Only at about 12 do they see the opposite sex as attractive instead of annoying.
Dont get me wrong, sexuality is present since very little, and usually people who dont have this element in their childhood developed inbalances that lead to pedophilia and others. But this sexuality is not about sex, but more about interactions with others, or did we all forget the boys vs girls games of childhood.
a 12 year old child is not psicologically developed enough to understand the complexities of a sexual relationship.

and studies have proven that the earlier people start an active sex life, the more prone they become to promiscuity in their mature life.
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Blackbird1331
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RE: Could A 12-year-old Consent To Full Sex?

Fri Sep 10, 2004 10:40 am

Go read a book. Preferably one about aviation.
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iowaman
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RE: Could A 12-year-old Consent To Full Sex?

Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:45 am

Well at my age (14) There are many people my age having sex and things of that nature. I think under 12 should be illegal and that 12-16 year olds should be able to do it as long as they know what they are doing and not doing some 30 year old guy. I know what it's all about, condoms, STD's, etc. Some of us by this age are "guys". Yea it seems a little young but I think about it all the time and so do a lot of other people at 12 years of age. As long as you understand the consinquences I think it's alright to do it at 12, although many kids aren't quite at that level yet.
 
ZKSUJ
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RE: Could A 12-year-old Consent To Full Sex?

Fri Sep 10, 2004 6:35 pm

I know of many peolpe that are young who have sex, but I do not think it is old enough for a 12 year old to make this decision.
 
L-188
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RE: Could A 12-year-old Consent To Full Sex?

Fri Sep 10, 2004 6:42 pm

You know I figure at some point, it is going to be mentioned that Romeo and Juliet where what? 13-14?

Standards change over time.
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Elisabete
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RE: Could A 12-year-old Consent To Full Sex?

Sun Sep 12, 2004 5:41 am

Pe@rson,

Since you are currently studying criminal law, is "statutory rape" recognized in England?

Here, in the USA, it is, which means that there are no defenses available, especially in your example, wherein she is 12. The rule is that if the female is under the statutorily prescribed age of consent--usually 16-an act of intercourse constitutes rape despite her consent. Also, the defense of mistake --examples are: "she looked 18" or/and "she told me was 18" --is not a defense either. Lastly, the defense of "intoxication, including usage of drugs" does not work either. What does this mean? My dear boys make sure she is at least 16!!!! Or else, you are in deep shit lolol ......


A side note ----At common law, rape was "the act of unlawful sexual intercourse by a male with a female without her consent." During those days (colonial period), a husband could not rape his wife. Now, the definition of rape has changed but what remains the same is that rape is a general intent crime. This means that the prosecution will only need to prove the criminal act itself, not the intent to commit the crime. Why is this important to know? Because, in many States, "intoxication" is not a defense even if she has or is over the consenting age and "there was drinking involved on both parties or she was drinking." The prosecution will argue that she had the inability to CONSENT to sex because she was under the influence of alcohol or/and drugs. "She did not know what she was consenting to."

(The defense of intoxication is applicable to specific intent crimes such as larceny (intent to permanently deprive another from his/her tangible property),robbery (intent to steal with force/intimidation or threat), and voluntary manslaughter (intent to kill with provocation, heat of passion crime).

So, what is the best defense to rape (not statutory rape)? The answer is consent BUT my dear boys make sure that she is NOT DRUNK!!! lol

okay, okay, okay, enough law talk lolol ......



Get over it ! lol
 
BFS
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RE: Could A 12-year-old Consent To Full Sex?

Sun Sep 12, 2004 6:27 am

I may be wrong about this, but I had to do an essay about sexual and moral repression in Spain until the 1970s, and from my research it seems the the legal age of sexual consent in Spain was, and still is, 12. Any body able to clear that up? I also find it quite bizare that in most part of the UK the age is normally 16, except in Northern Ireland where it is 17. Rather inconsistent.
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Could A 12-year-old Consent To Full Sex?

Sun Sep 12, 2004 7:49 am

Hi Liz,

I finished my LLB (which is a taught degree) about two years ago. Last year, I began the first year of the MPhil (which is a research degree). This year, I'll be going into the second year of the MPhil. My chosen thesis topic doesn't involve rape and I haven't studied it for sometime (about 3 or so years), but here's what I remember when I briefly looked at the area in a book in 2003:

In English law, section 1(1) of chapter 42 of the Sexual Offences Act (1993) states that:

“A person (A) commits an offence [rape] if:

(a) he intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person (B) with his penis;
(b) B does not consent to the penetration; and
(c) A does not reasonably believe that B consents.”

1(4) of the same chapter of the Act states that the maximum sentence for rape is life imprisonment.

Concerning the rape of a child under 13 – 5(1)(a) is the same as (a) above. 5(1)(b) states that “the other person is under 13.” There is no issue of consent and reasonable belief when it comes to the rape of a child under 13.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
PH-BFA
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RE: Could A 12-year-old Consent To Full Sex?

Sun Sep 12, 2004 8:36 am

I think the question should be asked what happens if the boy is 12 and the girl 16?  Smile

No to be serious, I think that anyone younger than 16 is not fully aware of the meaning of sex(exceptions excluded).

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