Boeing757/767
Topic Author
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Three Years Later, U.S. Is Not Safe

Mon Sep 13, 2004 11:53 pm

I strongly feel this, and when I read an editorial in Sunday's Star Tribune of Minneapolis, I wanted to share some points with you. Despite my tagline and the newspaper's left-leaning editorial board, the editorial makes some common-sense arguments worth sharing and debating. Nothing new, of course, but well said.

The editorial states, correctly in my mind, that the Bush administration has "badly botched the fight against terrorism on two major fronts: taking the fight to the enemy and preparing the homeland's defenses."

The editorial continues in part:

"The United States' justifiable attack on Afghanistan took too long in the planning and put far too few troops on the ground. Although the Taliban and Al-Qaida were severely disrupted, their leaders were never captured. In a momumental error, the United States used local troops of dubious loyalty and questionable ability to capture or kill Osama bin Laden -- whom Bush vowed to take dead or alive -- when he was trapped in the Tora Bora region.

"Three years later, Bin Laden remains free to foment further violence against the United States. His organization, Al-Qaida, has now morphed into a many-headed monster that can attack in many places. A more aggressive American effort to quickly and totally decapitate it in the early days following the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, might have led to its disintegration.

"The administration's obession with Iraq and Saddam Hussein has not only hindered the fight against terrorism in many ways, it has increased the threat:

-- By invading and occupying an Islamic country that posed no short-term threat to the United States, the Bush administration has exponentially increased the number of young Islamic men who hate the United States enough to enlist in terrorist organizations that target it.

-- By thumbing its nose at most of the world over Iraq, the Bush administration has impeded the international cooperation that is essential in the long struggle that will be necessary to overcome the virulent strain of radical Islam that targets the United States.

-- By committing to an Iraq adventure that will cost a minimum of $200 billion while simultaneously pursuing trillions of dollars in tax cuts, the Bush administration has made it impossible to properly fund the defensive portion of the struggle against terror. While airline security has improved since 9/11, little else has been accomplished."


Free-thinking, left-leaning secularist
 
KROC
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RE: Three Years Later, U.S. Is Not Safe

Mon Sep 13, 2004 11:58 pm

Funny, I feel as safe as I ever have.
 
jasepl
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RE: Three Years Later, U.S. Is Not Safe

Tue Sep 14, 2004 12:04 am

After having visited America earlier this year, I think it's perfectly safe. I felt just as safe in New York as I do almost anywhere else in the world that I've been. It's just this culture of fear the politicians are using and manipulating to make people feel unsafe so that they vote for the party that will rid America of the Phantom Menace.
 
Boeing757/767
Topic Author
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RE: Three Years Later, U.S. Is Not Safe

Tue Sep 14, 2004 12:11 am

Let me add to my original post that I have always felt safe here as well. As for politicians using fear to manipulate, you have to look no further than Dick Cheney, who told a crowd in Iowa: "if we make the wrong choice then the danger is that we'll get hit again."

Given these comments, it's funny how the Bush administration has actually made things LESS stable.
Free-thinking, left-leaning secularist
 
b757300
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RE: Three Years Later, U.S. Is Not Safe

Tue Sep 14, 2004 12:12 am

Nothing but a regurgitation of DNC talking points. Same old tired issues.

Have we had another large scale terrorist attack since September 11th? I didn't think so. Next dead horse issue. How about more on Abu Ghraib or the National Guard? Those are always good standbys when nothing else works.
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
Boeing757/767
Topic Author
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RE: Three Years Later, U.S. Is Not Safe

Tue Sep 14, 2004 12:22 am

OK, then if that is a dead-horse issue, how come Bush is campaigning on it virtually all the time?
Free-thinking, left-leaning secularist
 
Scotty
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RE: Three Years Later, U.S. Is Not Safe

Tue Sep 14, 2004 12:29 am

Lets see now.

Here are some places where terrorist attacks have taken place post 9/11

Bali
Iraq
Afghanistan
Madrid
Jakarta
South Ossetia
Saudi Arabia
Yemen
Israel

Nope. Dont see the USA on that list. You should feel a lot safer. Maybe these places would have been safer also had George, Tony and Howard not sent in the cavalry.
 
L.1011
Posts: 2163
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RE: Three Years Later, U.S. Is Not Safe

Tue Sep 14, 2004 12:39 am

Lets see now.

Here are some places where terrorist attacks have taken place post 9/11

Bali
Iraq
Afghanistan
Madrid
Jakarta
South Ossetia
Saudi Arabia
Yemen
Israel

Nope. Dont see the USA on that list. You should feel a lot safer. Maybe these places would have been safer also had George, Tony and Howard not sent in the cavalry.


Hmmm...so ok. The United States is supposed to protect all these places, but God forbid we get some help in protecting our own country. Good God.
 
N6376M
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RE: Three Years Later, U.S. Is Not Safe

Tue Sep 14, 2004 1:32 am

Contrary to what the multinationalist want us to believe, the oath the POTUS takes is to preserve protect and defend the constitution of the US against all enemies . . .

While there are strong arguments that support why this should be changed, it is our existing law of the land - we look out after ourselves and our interest. Leaders of other countries should do the same.

NOBODY would have sat on 9/12/01 and bet that the US would go 3 years without another major terrorist attack. GWB has shown that the best defense is a strong offense. We've disrupted terrorist plots around the world. We captured and interrogated countless of these POS. We made it harder than ever to conduct corrdinated terrorist acts on our soil or against our interest.

However, there is still tremendous work to be done. Far too much unscreened cargo still travels in the holds of commerical airliners - some day, that will catch up with us. Far too many illegal immigrants get into the US. Far too many US visitors are unaccounted for.

If winning the war on terror means that there will never be another attack on US soil - then we've lost because the terrorist will always be able to convince some smuck to walk into a mall, a church, a school, an airport and blow themselves up. But if the war on terror is judged by our ability to defend the US homeland against coordinated attacks against our interest - we'll win.

We can't be everywhere at all times. We can make it harder. Remember, we live in a society where even the most guilty of criminals are entitled to countless protections - balancing the constitutional protections with the very basic needs for security is not an easy act to undertake. Will it take us more than 3 years to do it. Of course.

Remember, the object of terrorism is to cause terror. Who here feels scared as they walk down the street? I know I don't.
 
JeffM
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RE: Three Years Later, U.S. Is Not Safe

Tue Sep 14, 2004 2:02 am

"if we make the wrong choice then the danger is that we'll get hit again."

Many people agree that if Kerry were to win, he would be 'tested' right away.
 
B747-437B
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RE: Three Years Later, U.S. Is Not Safe

Tue Sep 14, 2004 3:02 am

I guess it all depends on your definition of "safe".

If you take safety to mean freedom from the threat of attacks, then the US is no more or less safe than it was on September 10, 2001. The same wackos are still looking to launch an attack - its only that people are now more aware of it.

If you take safety to mean freedom from actual terrorist attacks, the administration has done a fabulous job both pre-emptively and reactively eliminating terrorist threats at home. They may not have done this appropriately in some opinions, but nobody can argue with the end result. You can however argue whether the end justifies the means.

If you take safety to mean the state of mind, the administration has done a poor job in reassuring the people about their safety. There have been 3 years now without a major terror attack and people should be comforted by the fact that their government is doing something right, rather than living in the same state of fear that they have been since 2001.

The saddest part is that the United States could have learned a lot about combatting terrorism from many of its "allies" who have dealt with it for decades now rather than trying to re-invent the wheel as they have tried to do. If they had simply taken tried and tested methodology and applied it within the framework of the US' own formidable infrastructure, we would probably have seen a far more effective global anti-terror movement, and likely at a fraction of the cost. Still, its only been 3 years and one can only hope that either Bush or Kerry will learn from the mistakes of the past and work to develop a secure country, continent and world for generations to come.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
dan-air
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RE: Three Years Later, U.S. Is Not Safe

Tue Sep 14, 2004 3:17 am

Many people agree that if Kerry were to win, he would be 'tested' right away.

That would be you and....?
 
JeffM
Posts: 7569
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 3:32 am

RE: Three Years Later, U.S. Is Not Safe

Tue Sep 14, 2004 3:21 am

"That would be you and....?"

Well the V.P. for one.  Big grin
 
BR715-A1-30
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RE: Three Years Later, U.S. Is Not Safe

Tue Sep 14, 2004 3:24 am

I agree with KROC, I feel just as safe as I ever have. Nothing has really changed. Just gotten a little more inconvenient around here.

But as I was away on vacation, and I've learned that once you leave the states, and visit places like Jamaica, It makes one proud... that you can always immigrate to Jamaica.  Big grin. Actually, I really missed my homeland. America would be perfect if we weren't so paranoid.
Puhdiddle
 
slider
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RE: Three Years Later, U.S. Is Not Safe

Tue Sep 14, 2004 4:27 am

While many of the "ABB" crowd have engaged in histrionics, I've been one of his most vocal critics about the failures of national defense.

Our ports are woefully ill-protected. I think of just here in Houston, one of the largest ports in the WORLD, and one that has a sizable % of petroleum refining capability in the US, as well as a great deal of the nation's grain reserves. And yet any shmuck could just come right on up the Ship Channel from Galveston Bay and do severe and massive damage if they chose to.

Our airport security is a total joke, the TSA is an inept bureaucracy and we're still not profiling in the manner we should be doing. Also, we're still issuing visas to people from terrorist and terror-sponsoring nations...there needs to be a total lockdown and moratorium on it.

Lastly, the US national borders, especially the one with Mexico, is largely a sieve. Not only are MILLIONS of illegals getting into the US, but we also have a threat of terrorists coming in unchecked. There has been NOTHING done about this since 9/11. Period.

These are the reasons I'm critical of the Bush administration's "actions" insofar as Homeland Security. We've done nothing of substance. Our water isn't safe from harm, nor is our air. And what's with the color coded terror threat index? Anyone know what that's about?

 
jasepl
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RE: Three Years Later, U.S. Is Not Safe

Tue Sep 14, 2004 4:35 am

Let me add to my original post that I have always felt safe here as well. As for politicians using fear to manipulate, you have to look no further than Dick Cheney, who told a crowd in Iowa: "if we make the wrong choice then the danger is that we'll get hit again."
Given these comments, it's funny how the Bush administration has actually made things LESS stable.

And what's with the color coded terror threat index? Anyone know what that's about?


Exactly. I joked once on another thread that it seems like George Bush has issued more threats against the United States than Osama has. You should have seen the mindless defenders of the President go ape-shit ovet that! They're the reason politicians can get away with so much - some people are all to happy to lap it up.

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