duke
Posts: 1167
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 1999 9:52 pm

Thoughts About Him Taking Her Name

Sat Sep 18, 2004 12:00 am

If I ever get married, I have decided I want to do something practically no one does: take my wife's name. So for example, my (shortened, anglicized) name is Ned L. I am now crushing on a young lady named Denisa K. Imagine that we get married. Traditionally, she'd become Denisa L. and might even be referred to as "Mrs. Ned L." Or she'd keep her name and I'd keep mine. But say we had a daughter and named her Leslie. She'd almost certainly be "Leslie L." or maybe "Leslie L.-K.", which would be inpractical. Now I want none of that. I think these customs are sexist. Why should the husband's name always be given to the child? In a fair world, the couple would sit down and talk about which name would be better for a child and give them that one, not base the decision on sexist custom. And if millions of women even today could surrender their surname, then for crying out loud, so can I - a guy. Why should I be less happy to give up my surname than a girl? That is inherently sexist. I don't care about tradition. There are good traditions (those that do no harm and are a choice) and stupid ones (an extreme example - cutting off a woman's clitoris in some African places. It is a horrendous thing, but it's a tradition!).

So I am suggesting to unmarried guys to consider this and to unmarried girls to suggest it to their boyfriends.
 
Matt D
Posts: 8907
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RE: Thoughts About Him Taking Her Name

Sat Sep 18, 2004 12:01 am

whatever floats your boat. Now are you doing this because you WANT to, or are you just doing it to get other peoples attention?

Remember motive counts as much as the act itself. There is no honor in doing something like this simply to make a social or fashion statement.
 
slider
Posts: 6805
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RE: Thoughts About Him Taking Her Name

Sat Sep 18, 2004 12:04 am

Wow. Enjoy wearing that skirt Duke.

How nice of you to be a contrarian and change thousands of years of patriarchal societal structure.
 
CaptOveur
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RE: Thoughts About Him Taking Her Name

Sat Sep 18, 2004 12:05 am

My girlfriend is of Mexican descent. I have considered taking her name so I could check the hispanic box on job or loan applications.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
PH-BFA
Posts: 444
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RE: Thoughts About Him Taking Her Name

Sat Sep 18, 2004 12:07 am

out of the question. Period

PH-BFA
 
duke
Posts: 1167
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RE: Thoughts About Him Taking Her Name

Sat Sep 18, 2004 12:30 am

I would do that for the cause of social equality. Not to show off.
 
TWFirst
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Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 5:30 am

RE: Thoughts About Him Taking Her Name

Sat Sep 18, 2004 12:43 am

I've never understood the custom. For example, I carry just as much of my mother's heritage and genes as my father's, yet I carry only my father's name...

As far as Slider's comment, it is Mexican tradition (and I believe other Hispanic cultures' tradition as well) to take both the mother's and father's surname...so his comment is ignorant and uninformed.

I know a couple who decided to adopt a completely new last name before their children were born... they mutually agreed upon a name that had meaning and was somehow tied to their heritage.

I believe to do something just because it is "tradition", even though it has no personal meaning to you, is an exhibition of mindlessness.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
slider
Posts: 6805
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RE: Thoughts About Him Taking Her Name

Sat Sep 18, 2004 12:47 am

As far as Slider's comment, it is Mexican tradition (and I believe other Hispanic cultures' tradition as well) to take both the mother's and father's surname...so his comment is ignorant and uninformed.

There you go again, can't resist the personal shot can you?  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

For THOUSANDS of years, the patriarchal name has been a rule, not an exception, with the majority of cultures. Many Arabic cultures still keep their tribal name as the final surname among others, even if they don't go by it commonly. (ie: the al-_____ suffix at the end reflects the tribal or familial name).

My understanding was that it was Mexican tradition to keep the mother's name as a middle name but not as a final surname.


 
TWFirst
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RE: Thoughts About Him Taking Her Name

Sat Sep 18, 2004 12:54 am

And your comment to Duke wasn't a personal shot??? Besides, saying a comment is based on ignorance... meaning a lack of knowledge... is not a personal shot. It is simply an observation based on the evidence presented.

Actually, I believe in Mexico, the mother's surname is LAST in order, not first (i.e. used as a middle name).
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
slider
Posts: 6805
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RE: Thoughts About Him Taking Her Name

Sat Sep 18, 2004 1:17 am

I stand corrected TWF, just asked a co-worker in fact. I graciously offer my humble apology for the misstatement.

I standby the assertion and fact, however, that most cultures are patriarchal and it is in fact common practice among the majority of peoples on the planet.

And yes, it was a personal shot at Duke. I think the idea is ludicrous and I'm entitled to that opinion. If he didn't want criticism of the idea, he shouldn't have posted it.

I think it's a fucking dumb idea, quite frankly, but whatever makes him--or you, or anyone--sleep at night, more power to you.

 
CB777
Posts: 1135
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RE: Thoughts About Him Taking Her Name

Sat Sep 18, 2004 1:20 am

The only way I would take my wifes name, if I had a weird last name.
For instance this one passenger had a last name FUCK, if i had that last name I would change it to my wifes last name, I wouldnt want my future kids to get tortured with that last name growing up.


CB777
 
TWFirst
Posts: 5752
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RE: Thoughts About Him Taking Her Name

Sat Sep 18, 2004 1:30 am

>>I standby the assertion and fact, however, that most cultures are patriarchal and it is in fact common practice among the majority of peoples on the planet.<<


And I still say... SO WHAT?? Doesn't mean there's any compelling reason to adhere to the practice.


For what it's worth.. should I decide to get married in the future (it would be a same sex marriage), I don't believe I'd change my last name. I MIGHT think about hyphenating it, but I doubt it... can't see a compelling reason at this point, unless it would be important to my hypothetical partner. I have NO interest in having kids though.


(edited for typo)

[Edited 2004-09-17 18:32:27]
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
N6376M
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 12:54 am

RE: Thoughts About Him Taking Her Name

Sat Sep 18, 2004 2:32 am

Does that ring through your nose hurt. Be a man. If this is how you're starting the marriage, you're going to be p-whipped for the rest of your life.

I'm sure she already sends you out to be feminine hygiene products and pantyhose. Next thing you know, the strap-on comes out and she's making you say that you are her bitch.

[Edited 2004-09-17 19:34:50]
 
TWFirst
Posts: 5752
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 5:30 am

RE: Thoughts About Him Taking Her Name

Sat Sep 18, 2004 2:42 am

And of course you're going to let your wife read what you just wrote, aren't you N6376m???

That is, if you let her put shoes on and walk from the kitchen to the computer. Make sure she brings you a beer on the way...


 Insane
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
slider
Posts: 6805
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RE: Thoughts About Him Taking Her Name

Sat Sep 18, 2004 2:48 am

Actually, if N6376 is married, and his wife is anything like mine, she's probably saying it's a fucking retarded idea too!  Wink/being sarcastic

 
jasepl
Posts: 3499
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:15 pm

RE: Thoughts About Him Taking Her Name

Sat Sep 18, 2004 3:02 am

I'm sure she already sends you out to be feminine hygiene products and pantyhose. Next thing you know, the strap-on comes out and she's making you say that you are her bitch.

Let me guess... You find it perfectly acceptable to send her out to be you shaving gel or razor blades?
 
N6376M
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 12:54 am

RE: Thoughts About Him Taking Her Name

Sat Sep 18, 2004 3:46 am

Jasepl -

My wife uses my shaving gel and razors to shave her legs and underarms. I don't use her feminine products.

As for the name thing - my wife and I had the discussion before we got married and we almost broke up about it. She didn't want to take my name. I made it clear that my offer to marry was expressly contingent on her acceptance of my family name. Issue solved - happily married almost 8 years thank you.

 
TWFirst
Posts: 5752
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 5:30 am

RE: Thoughts About Him Taking Her Name

Sat Sep 18, 2004 3:52 am

So in other words you didn't give a shit about her feelings, she caved, and you think that makes you a "man".

Congrats.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
N6376M
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 12:54 am

RE: Thoughts About Him Taking Her Name

Sat Sep 18, 2004 4:00 am

TWFirst I don't think a gay guy from "Vatican City" is qualified to comment about the issues involved in a marital relationship.

But for the record, it was very important to me. She later admitted that it did matter much to her - she just got caught up in the feminist thoughts and pressures of college so why fight something just for the principle of it? But thanks for putting your two cents into something you know shit about.
 
CaptOveur
Posts: 6064
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RE: Thoughts About Him Taking Her Name

Sat Sep 18, 2004 4:05 am

I have to wonder.. why does it matter?

Honestly, if by some miracle I do decide to marry my girlfriend I have to say I will keep my name (above comment was a joke). I really couldn't care less what she does, she can take my name, she can keep her name, she can hyphenate the names. I really don't see how it matters.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
jasepl
Posts: 3499
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:15 pm

RE: Thoughts About Him Taking Her Name

Sat Sep 18, 2004 4:22 am

TWFirst I don't think a gay guy from "Vatican City" is qualified to comment about the issues involved in a marital relationship.

LOL! If we only knew just how many gays guys are in the Vatican right now, I'm sure we would all be shocked!
 
TWFirst
Posts: 5752
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RE: Thoughts About Him Taking Her Name

Sat Sep 18, 2004 4:30 am

>>TWFirst I don't think a gay guy from "Vatican City" is qualified to comment about the issues involved in a marital relationship.<<

You can think whatever you want... but it is fact the vast majority of relationship issues, including respecting your partner's feelings and being flexible, trancend sexual orientation.

If you are going to post lockerroom machismo bullcrap, then you shouldn't be surprised if people call you on it.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
TWFirst
Posts: 5752
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 5:30 am

RE: Thoughts About Him Taking Her Name

Sat Sep 18, 2004 4:32 am

>>LOL! If we only knew just how many gays guys are in the Vatican right now, I'm sure we would all be shocked!<<

I wouldn't!  Big grin
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
slider
Posts: 6805
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: Thoughts About Him Taking Her Name

Sat Sep 18, 2004 6:23 am

If you are going to post lockerroom machismo bullcrap, then you shouldn't be surprised if people call you on it.

Go ahead and call me on it while you're at it. Hell, I'm proud if it. I'm a man, the head of my family. My wife and I have a great strong marriage that's not only survived--but thrived--through a great deal of adversity in our 8 years of marriage to date. And we do make many decisions jointly, share a great deal of the responsibility, but I am the head of the household. That's not "lockerroom machismo bullcrap," it's following what my role and direction is in life.

And for the record, I don't even care for women who are "hyphenators" much.  Acting devilish
 
dtwclipper
Posts: 6668
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:17 am

RE: Thoughts About Him Taking Her Name

Sat Sep 18, 2004 6:30 am

Slider:

First of all, let's get our facts straight.

Up until a few hundred years ago, most people didn't even have last names. It really only became law once Napoleon ran his course through Europe. That is why we have Smiths, Bakers, Fishers, etc. Look up the root of most family names and you will find that most are occupations and place names.

Secondly,

Women took the name of their spouse, as they became HIS property, in the same way slaves took the name of their masters.

Now, I don't agree with the concept of the post, but that is another story.
Compare New York Air, the Airline that works for your Business
 
N6376M
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 12:54 am

RE: Thoughts About Him Taking Her Name

Sat Sep 18, 2004 6:36 am

twfirst - I guess the Holy Spirit has given you the power to reach through the internet, transcend time and space and determine how my wife of 8 years was feeling some time in 1996. Man, with powers like that it's amazing that there are still problems in the world.

You assumed that I didn't "give a shit" about her feelings. you know what happens when you ASS U MEA Middle East Airlines (Lebanon)">ME.

Perhaps if the vatican assumed less and listened more, people would have a better impression of the Catholic church.


 
ScarletHarlot
Posts: 4251
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 12:15 pm

RE: Thoughts About Him Taking Her Name

Sat Sep 18, 2004 8:37 am

Fun, another hot button issue for me!

Duke - good for you! There are so many 'traditions' that are unequal and degrading. I do not see why you should not take your wife's name if you want to. Whatever works for you and your future wife. And it is very cool that you are man enough to consider it.

Slider:

And for the record, I don't even care for women who are "hyphenators" much.

Thanks, dahling, I'm not that fond of you either.  Smile

N6376m:

As for the name thing - my wife and I had the discussion before we got married and we almost broke up about it. She didn't want to take my name. I made it clear that my offer to marry was expressly contingent on her acceptance of my family name. Issue solved - happily married almost 8 years thank you.

It was also important to my husband that I take his name. However, I had my own name for 23 years. I am part of that family and I accomplished things under that name. I was not about to give that up. At the same time, I understood how important it was to my husband. Therefore, I unoffically hyphenated. Officially, my maiden name is my middle name. I either use both, like Hillary Rodham Clinton, or hyphenate. I tend to hyphenate because my maiden name is also a first name and it causes some confusion.

If this solution had not been acceptable to my husband we would not have gotten married. If he had not been able to understand why it was important to me he would not have been my choice of a husband.

TWFirst - the more I read your posts, the more I like you. Here's a Respect coming your way!
But that was when I ruled the world
 
ordflyer
Posts: 498
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 2:08 pm

RE: Thoughts About Him Taking Her Name

Sat Sep 18, 2004 8:49 am

If/when I get married I wouldn't force my wife to take my last name, but not a chance that I would take her last name. That being said Duke, if you want to take you're wife's name there should be nothing holding you back. It'll probably raise quite a few eyebrows and start some interesting conversations, but if that's what you want there should be no reason for anybody to stop you.
I do however agree with what somebody said above about having an odd/embarassing name, then I would possibly consider changing.
 
N6376M
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 12:54 am

RE: Thoughts About Him Taking Her Name

Sat Sep 18, 2004 9:22 am

Scarlott - I respect your right to determine that unless your husband accepted your terms you wouldn't have gotten married. Shouldn't I have the same choice you had?
 
ScarletHarlot
Posts: 4251
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RE: Thoughts About Him Taking Her Name

Sat Sep 18, 2004 9:44 am

No, N6376M, neither of us got exactly what we wanted. I wanted to keep my name and not take his - he wanted me to take his name and not keep mine. We had to compromise.
But that was when I ruled the world
 
TWFirst
Posts: 5752
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 5:30 am

RE: Thoughts About Him Taking Her Name

Sat Sep 18, 2004 1:29 pm

>>twfirst - I guess the Holy Spirit has given you the power to reach through the internet, transcend time and space and determine how my wife of 8 years was feeling some time in 1996. Man, with powers like that it's amazing that there are still problems in the world.

You assumed that I didn't "give a shit" about her feelings. you know what happens when you ASS U MEA Middle East Airlines (Lebanon)">MEA Middle East Airlines (Lebanon)">ME.<<



I can guarantee you the "Holy Spirit" had nothing to do with my conclusion based on your original post... it seems incredibly illogical to me that you would search for a supernatural cause as to why people would draw logical conclusions as to your character based on your own words... in addition, I can also assure you Middle East Airlines had nothing to do with it.


AND, the fact that you actually seem to believe I am from Vatican City and thus try to insult me through attacks on the Vatican only adds to the humor of your posts, as well as to your level of 'tardedness. (and of course also justifies the irony of my location selection)


ScarletHarlot...girl, you have MY respect based solely on your username!! Big grin
(and your nationality)  Big grin
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
jasepl
Posts: 3499
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:15 pm

RE: Thoughts About Him Taking Her Name

Sat Sep 18, 2004 4:13 pm

Ahh yes, more profoundness from the "In the kitchen, on her back or in the shops" school of thinking.

Why is it ever "very important" to a man that his wife take his name? The only reason I can come up with is that he wants to stamp his ownership on her - or something to that effect. My mum, for reasons of her own, did not take my father's name when they got married in the 70s. That did not make him any less of a man or her any less his wife.

And here's one from a region the "she's my property" guys seem to love: the Arab world. A colleague at my previous job is Muslim. She met a Yemeni guy, got married to him and moved to Yemen. She doesn't have to change her name - and she hasn't - because even in Islamic Yemen, there exists a theory that a woman isn't her husbands property.

Strange to hear of Yemenis being less misogynistic than Americans!

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