ryanb741
Topic Author
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Al-Jazeera Poll - 93% Of Arabs Support Kidnappings

Sat Sep 25, 2004 4:19 am

Well in a poll conducted by Al Jazeera 93% of Arab respondents supported the spate of kidnappings of westerners.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3684324.stm

Kind of makes you wonder if there is ever going to be peace in that area, if people are as bloodthirsty and depraved as that.
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
prosa
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RE: Al-Jazeera Poll - 93% Of Arabs Support Kidnappings

Sat Sep 25, 2004 4:27 am

I somehow doubt that the phone poll comes remotely close to the standards of statistical accuracy that we take for granted in the West. For one thing, how many people in Arab countries even have telephones?
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
ryanb741
Topic Author
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RE: Al-Jazeera Poll - 93% Of Arabs Support Kidnappings

Sat Sep 25, 2004 4:28 am

I'm pretty sure that if these Arabs have cable TV to watch Al-jazeera they have telephones!
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
futureualpilot
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RE: Al-Jazeera Poll - 93% Of Arabs Support Kidnappings

Sat Sep 25, 2004 4:40 am

Something tells me that the people who took the poll were mostly those already against Western nations.

It would be like asking who likes aviation at this website.
Life is better when you surf.
 
sean1234
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RE: Al-Jazeera Poll - 93% Of Arabs Support Kidnappings

Sat Sep 25, 2004 4:44 am

Consider this-
Even Fox News doesn't get numbers like that in favor of Bush.
 
slider
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RE: Al-Jazeera Poll - 93% Of Arabs Support Kidnappings

Sat Sep 25, 2004 4:47 am

When you live in one of those nations, you're brought up to learn two things: hate America, hate Israel. Never mind that you might lack basic utilities, or can't read, or women are subservient. Gotta keep the masses repressed in order to maintain power, breed more terrorists, etc.

The dogs bark and the caravan moves on.
 
jaysit
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RE: Al-Jazeera Poll - 93% Of Arabs Support Kidnappings

Sat Sep 25, 2004 5:18 am

Support of hostage taking is very unfortunate, especially since the two men were innocent and slaughtered in such a brutal fashion. It only goes to show that the so-called support America has is next to non-existent.

However, it appears that the Arab world is sick and tired of seeing pictures of bloody bodies, mothers and children with their brains blown to pieces, etc. While our media in a blatant showing of propaganda doesn't show the death of between 11,000 to 15,000 Iraqi civilians (depending on who's counting), the rest of the world isn't exactly engaging in such shameless red, white, and blue censorship. I think if you witnessed a successive montage of dead bodies on TV for nearly 2 years, you'd be less than shocked and troubled by the plight of two hostages, however hideous their plight may be.

"When you live in one of those nations, you're brought up to learn two things: hate America, hate Israel. Never mind that you might lack basic utilities, or can't read, or women are subservient. Gotta keep the masses repressed in order to maintain power, breed more terrorists, etc."

Which nations? The Arab world is incredibly diverse. Go to any of the Gulf countries and you will think that that Texas is a third world nation in comparison. And as far as keeping the masses repressed in order to maintain power, we seem to be doing a damn good job in perpetuating that by shamelessly supporting Saudi Arabia and other despotic nations. And as far as hating America goes, blame your precious Dubya for that. The US was always generally liked by the huge middle class in the MidEast (with the exception of fundie Islamo-fascists), although lambasted for its support of Israel. Now it appears that even the common man is disgusted with and hates us.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
jutes85
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RE: Al-Jazeera Poll - 93% Of Arabs Support Kidnappings

Sat Sep 25, 2004 5:20 am

I'm not surprised by this at all, kinda expected it.

Perhaps if they didn't learn to hate Jews and Americans when they are younger, there might be more progress towards peace in that region, but alas religion gets in the way.

http://stream.realimpact.net/rihurl.ram?file=realimpact/memri/memri_10-30-02_01.rm&screensize=double

See what I mean!!! This just shows how nuts some Muslims are. This kid will probably end up blowing herself up on a bus when she is 18. I kinda feel sorry for her when she is forced to learn such crap at such a young age.
nothing
 
Sabena 690
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RE: Al-Jazeera Poll - 93% Of Arabs Support Kidnappings

Sat Sep 25, 2004 5:23 am

When you live in one of those nations, you're brought up to learn two things: hate America, hate Israel

Correction: the small percentage of extremists you are talking about hate the Western world/society, not only America.

About that poll: this smells to real bull sh*t.
 
NWA742
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RE: Al-Jazeera Poll - 93% Of Arabs Support Kidnappings

Sat Sep 25, 2004 5:36 am

Support of hostage taking is very unfortunate

Goddamn evil is what it is, not unfortunate.



-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
jaysit
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RE: Al-Jazeera Poll - 93% Of Arabs Support Kidnappings

Sat Sep 25, 2004 6:02 am

"Goddamn evil is what it is, not unfortunate."

You're right.

So is pulverizing to death thousands of people. Yet many Americans think that cluster and bunker bombing to pieces innocent Iraqi men, women and children is just fine and dandy.

The gruesome ritual decapitation of an American man is just as gruesome and hideous as watching a young Iraqi girl choke to death on her own blood after being fatally wounded in a coalition attack.

Justify the deaths of the hapless Iraqis in the name of war if you may. In the end, the dying feel the same horror and pain and shock of an untimely and hideous death.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Al-Jazeera Poll - 93% Of Arabs Support Kidnappings

Sat Sep 25, 2004 6:04 am

"Correction: the small percentage of extremists you are talking about hate the Western world/society, not only America."

It's not a small percentage. It's a significant, troublesome minority, at the VERY least.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
dl021
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RE: Al-Jazeera Poll - 93% Of Arabs Support Kidnappings

Sat Sep 25, 2004 6:19 am

Jaysit....You are comparing the deliberate kidnapping and murder of an innocent with the unfortunate collateral death and destruction that accompanies any war. I fail to understand why you seem to want to find excuses for these terrorists and their actions. I do not see the same terrorists kidnapping Iranians who shelled and bombed Iraq during the first first modern Gulf War. I see them taking comfort and encouragement from people like you who insist on explaining and excusing their work.

Your sanctimonious, apologistic attitude toward the terrorists, and your ability to lay their murderous behaviour at the feet of the US, instead of at the feet of the religious zealots is disgusting.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
BA
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RE: Al-Jazeera Poll - 93% Of Arabs Support Kidnappings

Sat Sep 25, 2004 6:19 am

I am currently taking a psychology class in college and one thing that I've learned is that polls/surveys can be VERY misleading if they are not conducted and designed properly.

In order for a poll/survey to be accurate, it needs to cover a very wide array of people. Perhaps most of those who responded to the poll were fanatics and did so because they so passionately support these killings. Fanatics like to get their voice out.

The fact is, most polls/surveys are not conducted properly and as a result can be very misleading.

Another factor could be wording effects. How was this poll worded? You won't believe how differently wording effects can change the results of the poll.

Also, I would not be surprised if a number of these people who support the kidnappings at the same time do not support the beheadings.

Perhaps many support the kidnappings as a way to persuade foreign nations to pull their troops out of Iraq, but believe in treating the hostages in a good manner until the political objectives have been met.

I believe people need to have access to Arab media to find the real truth of how people feel there.

Everytime there is a beheading, it makes front headlines in Arab newspapers. A day after and sometimes on the same day, you'll find a number of editorials by religious scholars, politicians, and just everyday people strongly condemning the beheadings. I am not convinced that the majority of the Arab world supports the beheadings.

The fact is the Arab world is very unhappy about the foreign presence in Iraq. They view it as a sign of colonialism as they have experienced greatly in the past. The days of the British and French mandates have not been forgotten. Before those days, most of the Arab world was under the rule of the Ottoman Empire. Arabs have experienced a long history of foreign occupation in which they tried to resist.

It would be interesting to find out more details about this poll...

I strongly opposed the war on Iraq, but nothing justifies the killings of innocent civilians.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
B2707SST
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RE: Al-Jazeera Poll - 93% Of Arabs Support Kidnappings

Sat Sep 25, 2004 9:14 am

However, it appears that the Arab world is sick and tired of seeing pictures of bloody bodies, mothers and children with their brains blown to pieces, etc.

They didn't seem to tire of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians being raped, tortured, and murdered by the Hussein regime.


Dl021 hit the nail on the head: there is no moral equivalence between accidental deaths during a military campaign, which the coalition takes pains to avoid and regrets when they happen, and the cold-blooded, deliberate, vicious execution of innocents to propagandize and terrorize Iraq into an Islamo-fascist state.

--B2707SST
Keynes is dead and we are living in his long run.
 
b757300
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RE: Al-Jazeera Poll - 93% Of Arabs Support Kidnappings

Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:54 am

Well, first of all we're talking about the Voice of Al-Qaeda doing a poll. Not the most reputable source. However, I do believe that in many parts of the Middle East the number is close to accurate but not every country.

However, I see very little that can be done to solve the problem but two things might start the process. One is that these people need to be dragged out of the 12th Century and into the modern world. They're still living in the Dark Ages and need to be forced, by any means necessary, into the 21st Century.

Secondly, it may become necessary for them to suffer the same fate as Germany and Japan did in WWII. They learned the true horrors of war, had their populations decimated, cites and towns turned into smoldering rubble, and Allied troops marching through their streets to forcefully occupy their countries. Of course with Japan it took a double nuclear strike in order to burn them into submission. Today neither country is going around creating the mayhem they did in the first half of the 20th century. Both are peaceful and Japan is a free, stable republic and one of our best allies.
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
vafi88
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RE: Al-Jazeera Poll - 93% Of Arabs Support Kidnappings

Sat Sep 25, 2004 1:05 pm

Well, first of all we're talking about the Voice of Al-Qaeda doing a poll. Not the most reputable source. However, I do believe that in many parts of the Middle East the number is close to accurate but not every country.

However, I see very little that can be done to solve the problem but two things might start the process. One is that these people need to be dragged out of the 12th Century and into the modern world. They're still living in the Dark Ages and need to be forced, by any means necessary, into the 21st Century.

Secondly, it may become necessary for them to suffer the same fate as Germany and Japan did in WWII. They learned the true horrors of war, had their populations decimated, cites and towns turned into smoldering rubble, and Allied troops marching through their streets to forcefully occupy their countries. Of course with Japan it took a double nuclear strike in order to burn them into submission. Today neither country is going around creating the mayhem they did in the first half of the 20th century. Both are peaceful and Japan is a free, stable republic and one of our best allies.


I applaud you on a post well done! Everything I have been saying about the palestinians/arabs, you have basically pointed out... Great post, one of the best I've read in a while - too bad we don't agree more!

I meant that too! BRAVO!
I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
 
NWA742
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RE: Al-Jazeera Poll - 93% Of Arabs Support Kidnappings

Sat Sep 25, 2004 1:14 pm

many Americans think that cluster and bunker bombing to pieces innocent Iraqi men, women and children is just fine and dandy.

What are you talking about? I think almost all Americans know that innocent civilian death in war is horrible.

The gruesome ritual decapitation of an American man is just as gruesome and hideous as watching a young Iraqi girl choke to death on her own blood after being fatally wounded in a coalition attack.

As said before, you're attempting to compare a deliberate kidnapping and gruesome murder of an innocent civilian........to accidental civilian deaths which always will occur in war.

You're saying that one is just as bad as the other? Have you lost your damn mind, Jaysit?



-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
SSTjumbo
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RE: Al-Jazeera Poll - 93% Of Arabs Support Kidnappings

Sat Sep 25, 2004 1:23 pm

I wouldn't be suprised based on who Al Jazeera caters to in the first place. Guess what, this is the same station that went to Baghdad Bob (at least 1,000x more biased than Michael Moron) for information regarding the coalition troops, and people bought into that stuff.


Also, am I the only one who would only sleep with only the noisiest and most effective burglar alarm and an AK-47 rifle clutched under my pillow ready for action over there?
I don't know, so this is my signature.
 
jaysit
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RE: Al-Jazeera Poll - 93% Of Arabs Support Kidnappings

Sat Sep 25, 2004 2:25 pm

"Your sanctimonious, apologistic attitude toward the terrorists, and your ability to lay their murderous behaviour at the feet of the US, instead of at the feet of the religious zealots is disgusting."

The fact that you posted such rubbish is disgusting.
If you bothered to read my posts, you'd realize that one is apologizing for terrorists here. The only apology I see here is the one that you're inherently putting forward for your own callousness for Iraqi civilian deaths. So spare us all your nauseating sanctimonious stupidity. Not one of you or your precious ilk can bring yourself to offer even the slightest bit of pity for the tens of thousands of Iraqi dead in the name of "collateral damage." And if anyone calls you on your hypocrisy and callousness, you shriek like a banshee and call them terrorist apologists. Try those bogus tactics on your mother, who would probably spank you and send you to bed without dinner.

The disgusting murder of two Americans makes you sh*t in your pants, but the sight of children decapitated by mortar bombs leaves you emotionless. How sick are YOU?

"As said before, you're attempting to compare a deliberate kidnapping and gruesome murder of an innocent civilian........to accidental civilian deaths which always will occur in war."

Try telling that to Iraqi mothers who wonder why US missiles are being launched into civilian neighborhoods killing their children. I'm sure that those kids were huddled in some corner frightened out of their minds before a bomb finally spared them of their misery. And given that the justification for this war (unlike WWII which you people love to compare it to) is arguably so weak, it makes a casual attitude to collateral deaths even more morally revolting.

"They didn't seem to tire of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians being raped, tortured, and murdered by the Hussein regime."

Well, neither did the Saddam's ass-kissing Republican administration under Reagan and Bush, so I guess another 12000+ deaths at the hands of US gunships is just icing on the cake, I guess.

What troubles me (and apparently the rest of the world beside the usual cadre of Bush apologists on here) is that there is not even the slightest shred of empathy, pity, solace for the people we've killed in droves. There is barely a mention of it in the American press. Its like no one seems to care in the US. Do you see why Iraqis and Arabs see a double standard especially when the ostensible reason for this war (WMDs) were never found? If, and when, another monstrous attack like the 9-11 attacks happened against us again, do you really expect the rest of the world to care?

Or are you just as blinded in your hatred of Arabs as fundamentalist Islamic thugs are in their hatred of the US?
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
CaptOveur
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RE: Al-Jazeera Poll - 93% Of Arabs Support Kidnapp

Sat Sep 25, 2004 2:36 pm

So what 757300 is saying is:

Those Ay'rabs are damned uncivilized, we need to make them more like us, just like we did with the Native Americans.

Their different value system isn't necessarily wrong. If they want to accept our value system it has to be their choice, they may like living in the dark ages, it is hard for us to believe, but we aren't them.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
N317AS
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RE: Al-Jazeera Poll - 93% Of Arabs Support Kidnappings

Sat Sep 25, 2004 3:01 pm

When it gets to be 100%, the next move will be easy.
Some people are like Slinkies. They bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
 
VS340
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RE: Al-Jazeera Poll - 93% Of Arabs Support Kidnapp

Sat Sep 25, 2004 3:02 pm

"Or are you just as blinded in your hatred of Arabs as fundamentalist Islamic thugs are in their hatred of the US?"

A double edged sword that few see(or are unwilling to even consider).

I applaud you on this post
 
garnetpalmetto
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RE: Al-Jazeera Poll - 93% Of Arabs Support Kidnappings

Sat Sep 25, 2004 3:23 pm

They're still living in the Dark Ages and need to be forced, by any means necessary, into the 21st Century.

Ever give consideration that maybe, just maybe, this is where radical Islam stems from? There's no doubt in my mind that the majority of Muslims do indeed want to see the benefits of globalization, the technological revolution, and free trade. Radical Islamists, however, are waging a war on modernity in that they feel that being "forced, by any means necessary, into the 21st Century" will cause Muslims to abandon Islam in favor of complete secularism. Further, with Americanization often accompanying globalization, these radical Islamists feel that Arab culture is being destroyed and a McWorld installed in its place.

Yes, the Middle East does need to advance in line with the modern geopolitical paradigms, but hell, so does Africa. It's unfortunately the price they have to pay for having been the victims of European imperialism. Keep in mind that in the European Dark Ages, Arabia was a center of scientific and mathematical thought and innovation. While Europeans were still using medical miracles like bleeding to attempt to cure diseases, Arabs were inventing the scientific method. It is not that Arabs are uncivilized savages and we must take on the white man's burden to modernize them. Rather it's working to encourage positive political and social change and stamping out radical Islam - not Middle Eastern culture altogether.
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
 
jasepl
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RE: Al-Jazeera Poll - 93% Of Arabs Support Kidnappings

Sat Sep 25, 2004 5:34 pm

Secondly, it may become necessary for them to suffer the same fate as Germany and Japan did in WWII.... Today neither country is going around creating the mayhem they did in the first half of the 20th century

True. And guess who is?
 

As for all those drawing a parallel with WWII, are you really sure you want to?

The only parallels that can be drawn between the two are (ignore for a moment who's the good guy and who's the bad guy):

1. WWII: Japan attacked America unprovoked.
    Iraq: America attacked Iraq unprovoked.

2. WWII: One of Germany's stated goals was to be the preeminent military force in the world.
    Iraq: One of America's stated goals was to be the preeminent military force in the world.

Now, let's apply the exact WWII you're using to justify one side's actions and denounce those of the other side.

Ergo, Iraq would be perfectly justified in launching a nuke strike on Chicago. If they had them, that is. Which they don't, as is plainly evident.

Something tells me this isn't what you had in mind.

[Edited 2004-09-25 10:35:52]
 
gkirk
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RE: Al-Jazeera Poll - 93% Of Arabs Support Kidnappings

Sat Sep 25, 2004 5:49 pm

"Correction: the small percentage of extremists you are talking about hate the Western world/society, not only America."

Frederic, unfortunatly it seems it is quite a large percentage  Sad
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
qr332
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RE: Al-Jazeera Poll - 93% Of Arabs Support Kidnappings

Sat Sep 25, 2004 9:24 pm

I was watching the debate that day, most people where pissed off that about 30,000 Iraqis are dead and didn't feel sympathy for those who deleivered supplies for the US Army or who worked with the US Army - and IMO these people can get perfectly normal jobs outside of Iraq, so by working in/for the US Army they are legitimate targets. The Italian, French, etc who had nothing to do with this at all dont deserve it. But military does, and they are not unjustified. In case your wondering, im part of that 7%, what I will be saying now is not because I support these animals, it is to explain why people think this.

PROSA,
For one thing, how many people in Arab countries even have telephones?

HAHAHA! Thats funny Big grin.

Slider,
When you live in one of those nations, you're brought up to learn two things: hate America, hate Israel. Never mind that you might lack basic utilities, or can't read, or women are subservient. Gotta keep the masses repressed in order to maintain power, breed more terrorists, etc.

HELLO! This isnt Africa, most people have have utilities and services available to them, woman in our societies are equal by law and by practice a lot of the time, you are looking at Afghanistan and Saudi, which are two halfass backward countries. The terrorists come from where, Slider? Saudi - ignorant, no education. Pakistan - ignorant, no education. Iraq - you figure that one out.

Jaysit,
Support of hostage taking is very unfortunate, especially since the two men were innocent and slaughtered in such a brutal fashion. It only goes to show that the so-called support America has is next to non-existent.

People are going crazy over the huge death toll, so i'm not surpised by the reaction.

However, it appears that the Arab world is sick and tired of seeing pictures of bloody bodies, mothers and children with their brains blown to pieces, etc. While our media in a blatant showing of propaganda doesn't show the death of between 11,000 to 15,000 Iraqi civilians (depending on who's counting), the rest of the world isn't exactly engaging in such shameless red, white, and blue censorship. I think if you witnessed a successive montage of dead bodies on TV for nearly 2 years, you'd be less than shocked and troubled by the plight of two hostages, however hideous their plight may be.

THANK YOU! That explains it very well, and it would be the reaction of all you Red, White and Blue hot heads if the same was happening to the West or in the US, am I not mistaken? Most of you didn't care about the casualties in Iraq anyway - you were "jokin" about nuking it.

Go to any of the Gulf countries and you will think that that Texas is a third world nation in comparison.

The Gulf is rich and developed, but it is more religious and more of a "closed society" than the Western Arab countires, but even there the countries are very different - the only real backwards Gulf country is Saudi. Did you know that the kidnappers of Al-Khobar didn't even know there was such thing as a Christian Arab, and they spared all Arabs on the assumption that they were all Muslim? And that they started lecturing them for not growing their beards? That is something that comes up with poverty and lack of education, which is what Saudi is at exactly now.

Jutes,
Perhaps if they didn't learn to hate Jews and Americans when they are younger, there might be more progress towards peace in that region, but alas religion gets in the way.

Or if not so many Iraqis were killed. Its not religion, its what we see everyday - what Americans are doing to Iraqis, the suffering they are going through. You seriously think we are like you, we are going to forget the tens of thousands of dead civilians and then feel all bad because of 2 Americans? What about what you guys are doing, you seem to have no problems with it.

NWA742,
Goddamn evil is what it is, not unfortunate.

So is supporting a war where this many civilians are dead, dont you think? Or do these people not count?

MaverickM11,
It's not a small percentage. It's a significant, troublesome minority, at the VERY least.

Which is growing thanks to things such as Iraq, and ruining our society as much as yours, but the people who are actually willing to do something are still a tiny percantage.

Dl021,
You are comparing the deliberate kidnapping and murder of an innocent with the unfortunate collateral death and destruction that accompanies any war.

Collatoral? Go say that to mothers with dead children, husbands who lost their lives, families torn apart, homeless people whos houses were bombed. This war was started for no good reason, just for Dubya's greed for oil, so dont give me the collateral bullshit.

fail to understand why you seem to want to find excuses for these terrorists and their actions.

Well, its not excuses, its fact. People are sick of this, for good reason.

<‌b>I do not see the same terrorists kidnapping Iranians who shelled and bombed Iraq during the first first modern Gulf War


Thats because they were all gassed with chemicals!

Your sanctimonious, apologistic attitude toward the terrorists, and your ability to lay their murderous behaviour at the feet of the US, instead of at the feet of the religious zealots is disgusting.

So is American support to such a war.

B2707ST,
They didn't seem to tire of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians being raped, tortured, and murdered by the Hussein regime.

Here we go with the Saddam was bad excuse again. Yes, he was very hated 707, and still is, but the fact that Americans are making things much worse is not exactly making people happy. When you people came in, you took responsibility for Iraq, and now it is nothing but a memory of what it used to be. Did you know most Iraqis think they were better of with Saddam?

B757300,
Well, first of all we're talking about the Voice of Al-Qaeda doing a poll. Not the most reputable source. However, I do believe that in many parts of the Middle East the number is close to accurate but not every country.

Actually, these people call Al-Qaeda terrorists. They are a Qatari based private channel, with nothing to do with Al-Qaeda. And read BAs post.

However, I see very little that can be done to solve the problem but two things might start the process. One is that these people need to be dragged out of the 12th Century and into the modern world. They're still living in the Dark Ages and need to be forced, by any means necessary, into the 21st Century.

Emm, really? In Saudi, Pakistan, and Afghanistan yes. Everywhere else, we have normal societes. Don't beleive me? Come check it out.

Secondly, it may become necessary for them to suffer the same fate as Germany and Japan did in WWII.

Excuse me? Really? Your gonna nuke us because of a few beheadings, which are not very supported? LOL! So what about the 30,000 dead Iraqis, do we get to nuke you for those?

They learned the true horrors of war, had their populations decimated, cites and towns turned into smoldering rubble, and Allied troops marching through their streets to forcefully occupy their countries.

Iraqis are learning all this now.

Of course with Japan it took a double nuclear strike in order to burn them into submission. Today neither country is going around creating the mayhem they did in the first half of the 20th century. Both are peaceful and Japan is a free, stable republic and one of our best allies.

LOL! You are so full of crap. You people created this mess, don't blame it on us. When you come and do this people will become desperate, especially when they lose all they love. Typical response, you people think of yourself but not others.

Vafi88,
applaud you on a post well done! Everything I have been saying about the palestinians/arabs, you have basically pointed out... Great post, one of the best I've read in a while - too bad we don't agree more!

The hell do Palestinians have to do with this?

What are you talking about? I think almost all Americans know that innocent civilian death in war is horrible.

Nobody seems to want us to nuke the US for them though? And there is still support for this war!

As said before, you're attempting to compare a deliberate kidnapping and gruesome murder of an innocent civilian........to accidental civilian deaths which always will occur in war

Well, people will get pretty pissed off after tens of thousands of accidents.

You're saying that one is just as bad as the other? Have you lost your damn mind, Jaysit?


Yes they are. It is your duty to restore order, not to destroy the country.

SSTJumbo,
I wouldn't be suprised based on who Al Jazeera caters to in the first place. Guess what, this is the same station that went to Baghdad Bob (at least 1,000x more biased than Michael Moron) for information regarding the coalition troops, and people bought into that stuff.

Emm, they did interviews with Baghdad Bob, and with the American side, and with independant sources. 3 points of view, people beleived what they wanted to.

Capteuver,
Their different value system isn't necessarily wrong. If they want to accept our value system it has to be their choice, they may like living in the dark ages, it is hard for us to believe, but we aren't them.

We are not in the dark ages, and even if we were, like you said, we're perfectly happy with it. You people do not control the entire world, don't tr to change our societies so you can get more puppet governments.

Garnetpalmetto,
Ever give consideration that maybe, just maybe, this is where radical Islam stems from? There's no doubt in my mind that the majority of Muslims do indeed want to see the benefits of globalization, the technological revolution, and free trade.

The source of Islamic fundamentilism, hatred and so on is because many Muslims see themselves as being oppressed in many places (Iraq, Chechneya, Kashmir, Israel/Palestine, etc). They thing that makes them hate the west is what they see as oppression, more fighting and oppression will cause more hatred, extemism, and more importantly, "terrorism".

Yes, the Middle East does need to advance in line with the modern geopolitical paradigms, but hell, so does Africa.

The thing most people seem to fail to see is that the Arab world is not, I repeat, not on the same level. We have countries like Qatar and the UAE which have a very prosperous economy, which competes with Western economies, and we have countries like Jordan and Egypt, which do not have much capabilites but are open culterally, countires like Lebanon which are democracies, then, on a level on its own, Saudi Arabia. The Arab world is very differnt, I am now very different from a Qatari or a Saudi, I think different, talk different, dress different. We are different cultures, not the same.

Rather it's working to encourage positive political and social change and stamping out radical Islam - not Middle Eastern culture altogether.

You hit it on the nail. I love my culture, many Arabs wouldn't trade it in for the world, but what we need is to get it into the shape it was once at. We need new, better leaders, we need social reform, etc, something we hope to get soon. What we dont need is more fighting.

As I already stated, I do not support these people, and I am not saying what they are doing is right, but I am also a frustrated Arab who is sick of seeing these stereotypes, sick of seeing people in Iraq suffering and people in America not caring, sick of you people justifying it as collatoral damage. Please read this post properly before replying and attacking.
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
SSTjumbo
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RE: Al-Jazeera Poll - 93% Of Arabs Support Kidnappings

Sun Sep 26, 2004 4:27 am

Emm, they did interviews with Baghdad Bob, and with the American side, and with independant sources. 3 points of view, people beleived what they wanted to.


Really. Give me a few examples and I'll be quiet.
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solnabo
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RE: Al-Jazeera Poll - 93% Of Arabs Support Kidnappings

Sun Sep 26, 2004 4:50 am

The same message, again, on this topic:

Be afraid, be very afraid.........ex. "sleep with AK-47 under my pillow"

Puhleezzee  Insane

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qr332
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RE: Al-Jazeera Poll - 93% Of Arabs Support Kidnappings

Sun Sep 26, 2004 5:14 am

Really. Give me a few examples and I'll be quiet.

Examples from where? I don't have a VCR recording Aljazeera 24/7, but I was watching that day, they always show both sides of the story. They showed the press conference of Sahaf and of the US guy, forgot his name. And FYI, most people just made fun of Sahaf.

There was not one day where Aljazeera did not show US press conferences, and not interview both sides. Even when talking about the British hostage yesterday, they talked to an extrimist and to the hostages brother. When there is a bombing in Israel, they usually talk to Israeli ministers and officials. Aljazeera has earned a good reputation in the Mideast because it reports from two points of view at least, never from one. This is the reason the show this poll was taken, Al Itijah Al Mo'akis (translated Oppositte Directions) is always a very heated debate, because there are two points of view, usually both opposite and both are extremes.

Oh, and about the Al-Qaeda rant many people say, if this really was such an extreme channel, there wouldn't be
a) Woman reporters.
b) A show on woman issues and rights in the Mideast.
c) Woman not wearing a full hijab (only one of the reporters does)
etc etc.
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
SSTjumbo
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RE: Al-Jazeera Poll - 93% Of Arabs Support Kidnappings

Sun Sep 26, 2004 8:09 am

The same message, again, on this topic:

Be afraid, be very afraid.........ex. "sleep with AK-47 under my pillow"

Puhleezzee



Hmm, I'd like to see you spend a few months in Iraq as an American contractor or one from any other country, then come back to me and say "puhleezzee". You're downright ignorant until then.


There was not one day where Aljazeera did not show US press conferences, and not interview both sides. Even when talking about the British hostage yesterday, they talked to an extrimist and to the hostages brother. When there is a bombing in Israel, they usually talk to Israeli ministers and officials. Aljazeera has earned a good reputation in the Mideast because it reports from two points of view at least, never from one. This is the reason the show this poll was taken, Al Itijah Al Mo'akis (translated Oppositte Directions) is always a very heated debate, because there are two points of view, usually both opposite and both are extremes.

Oh, and about the Al-Qaeda rant many people say, if this really was such an extreme channel, there wouldn't be
a) Woman reporters.
b) A show on woman issues and rights in the Mideast.
c) Woman not wearing a full hijab (only one of the reporters does)
etc etc.



Every station gives multiple views just to fill in the holes. Every station also plays like they're good ol' moderate folks when in fact often times they villify one person and make a hero out of the other. I'd challenge you to name me one station AROUND THE WORLD, no holds barred, that doesn't do that.
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qr332
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RE: Al-Jazeera Poll - 93% Of Arabs Support Kidnappings

Sun Sep 26, 2004 8:10 pm

You asked for the evidence, I gave it to you. They interviewed many people. both American and Arabic, and it was always two sides of the story.

Now - why has everyone changed the subject and gone quiet? You all seemed happy to debate earlier.
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
SSTjumbo
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RE: Al-Jazeera Poll - 93% Of Arabs Support Kidnappings

Mon Sep 27, 2004 3:31 am

QR332, you can interview all the sides you can get your hands on, and you can also spin quotes to mean things they don't mean just as easily. Interviewing "both sides" only has superficial meaning. Actually presenting both sides for what they are is a whole different matter, something public television even has a hard time doing. Al Jazeera can interview whoever they want, but if CTA (Switzerland)">BB King is right every time, I have to question the credibility of the station. I don't have video or text evidence either, so I can't 100% trust that Al Jazeera is what you say it is.
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SSTjumbo
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RE: Al-Jazeera Poll - 93% Of Arabs Support Kidnappings

Mon Sep 27, 2004 3:31 am

QR332, you can interview all the sides you can get your hands on, and you can also spin quotes to mean things they don't mean just as easily. Interviewing "both sides" only has superficial meaning. Actually presenting both sides for what they are is a whole different matter, something public television even has a hard time doing. Al Jazeera can interview whoever they want, but if B.B. King is somehow right every time, I have to question the credibility of the station. I don't have video or text evidence either, so I can't 100% trust that Al Jazeera is what you say it is.
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qr332
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RE: Al-Jazeera Poll - 93% Of Arabs Support Kidnappings

Mon Sep 27, 2004 4:20 am

Can you please explain what you mean by B.B. king? And its up to you if you wnat to beleive me SSTjumbo, but I am no liar and I really dont care about a news channel, i'm just saying it gets a lot of unfair and unjust criticism.
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
SSTjumbo
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RE: Al-Jazeera Poll - 93% Of Arabs Support Kidnappings

Mon Sep 27, 2004 5:01 am

Baghdad Bob, and I'm beginning to think you're in serious need of a hankie  Insane.

Oh well, guess this one's not going any further.
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qr332
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RE: Al-Jazeera Poll - 93% Of Arabs Support Kidnappings

Mon Sep 27, 2004 5:51 am

Actually, im not in need of anything. This one will go further because Aljazeera never based their reports on Sahaf, they based them on their own reporters based in Baghdad and all of Iraq, and they would say that the Iraqis reported so and so, the Americans so and so, etc.
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
whitehatter
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RE: Al-Jazeera Poll - 93% Of Arabs Support Kidnappings

Mon Sep 27, 2004 6:25 am

I'll probably take heat for this, but don't particularly care.

http://english.aljazeera.net/HomePage

Al Jazeera gets a lot of unfair criticism from those who have NEVER either watched it or visited the website.

I have noticed that they try to be even handed if possible. Just because you don't like the message, don't kill the messenger. There may be op-ed pieces which inflame passions but remember...in the eyes of someone neutral is an Al Jazeera op-ed piece any worse than Hannity or Limbaugh or O'Reilly?

As believers in democracy and law we state that "innocemce until proven guilty" is a cornerstone of our beliefs. Too many want to convict Al Jazeera on hearsay without any experience of actually seeing their output or programming.

I suggest you take a look before sounding off. You might be surprised. Then, and only then, will you have the moral right to criticise.

[Edited 2004-09-26 23:26:40]
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
Spaceman
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RE: Al-Jazeera Poll - 93% Of Arabs Support Kidnappings

Mon Sep 27, 2004 6:42 am

It just shows that if your brain is still partly functioning you know where not to go and stick your nose in some other people's business.
 
SSTjumbo
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RE: Al-Jazeera Poll - 93% Of Arabs Support Kidnappings

Mon Sep 27, 2004 9:30 am

Thanks for the website. However, just like any network out there, it's pretty visible that they twist information, just like anyone else does in case I didn't make myself clear the first time. At least the english version of the website lets one filter fact from BS by reading carefully, I'll definately give them that.
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whitehatter
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RE: Al-Jazeera Poll - 93% Of Arabs Support Kidnappings

Mon Sep 27, 2004 9:35 am

SSTJumbo

At least now you can post your debate points from the standpoint of having seen the website.

My point is that the parrots here squawk their venom without any attempt whatsoever to qualify their words. The oldest amd most valid point of warfare is "know thine enemy". Even if Al Jazeera is an Islamic radical hotbed of propaganda, one must first establish that fact in your own mind and experience before you can start attacking it.

That's all I ask. That the people who decry Aljaz first get to at least know WTF they are spouting off about. Othewise those words are meaningless.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...

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