BN747
Topic Author
Posts: 5344
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

If The Constitution Is Changed...

Mon Sep 27, 2004 2:34 pm

If the measure before the House, introduced by Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, to changed the amenment of the US Constitution that requires the President be a natural born citizen is passed and ultimately becomes law... which clears the way for Rohrabacher's friend Gov. Swartzenegger to run for president (which is clear as day the goal of this act).. then I must agree with Bill Maher, amend the Constitution so that Bill Clinton can take the reigns once more and as long as he wants...

The Guvenator vs The Sperminator! A true brain vs brawl match up... the dead would rise to vote in that electoral match-up.


BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
DLKAPA
Posts: 7962
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:37 am

RE: If The Constitution Is Changed...

Mon Sep 27, 2004 2:47 pm

I can't say I agree with that.

You know if they take away the limit on the amount of terms a president can face, You know who could (and probably would) abuse it.
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
dtwclipper
Posts: 6668
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:17 am

RE: If The Constitution Is Changed...

Mon Sep 27, 2004 2:48 pm

I brought this up a few weeks ago.

It won't happen, but if it did I would give my vote to the other non-native born governor.

Michigans Jennifer Granholm!
Compare New York Air, the Airline that works for your Business
 
BN747
Topic Author
Posts: 5344
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

RE: If The Constitution Is Changed...

Mon Sep 27, 2004 3:00 pm

You know if they take away the limit on the amount of terms a president can face, You know who could (and probably would) abuse it.


Simple just require each candidate to take a monitored and written academic exam... wow.. that would sink Swartzenegger right off the bat... and ensure Dubya reign is limited to the 4 years he already... acquired.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
Dash8King
Posts: 2657
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2001 8:45 am

RE: If The Constitution Is Changed...

Mon Sep 27, 2004 3:41 pm

You know if they take away the limit on the amount of terms a president can face, You know who could (and probably would) abuse it.

How can you abuse it when it is people that elect you. If you arent wanted to serve more then 1 serving then you won't.




 
air2gxs
Posts: 1443
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2001 1:29 pm

RE: If The Constitution Is Changed...

Mon Sep 27, 2004 9:01 pm

Remember, term limits for the president were put in place by the 22nd amendment.

I feel term limits take away our freedom to choose who we want for president. I'm being forced to abandon someone I'm happy with, after 8 years, for someone I don't know. Term limits restrict our right to choose as legislated by the several state legislatures (remember, The US Constitution does not guarantee our right to vote for president).

As to the meat of the question; I've had a change of heart here in the last couple of weeks. Why shouldn't I, or any other naturalized citizen, be allowed to attain the highest office in the land. I've been a citizen of the US for 29 years. I suspect the clause was placed in The Constitution in order to prevent the nobility of Europe from attempting to enter high US politics.

And DLKAPA, I expected better than that from you. The people will speak via the vote if they want the president gone.

 
SlamClick
Posts: 9576
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:09 am

RE: If The Constitution Is Changed...

Mon Sep 27, 2004 9:12 pm

If I could amend the US Constitution one more time it would be this; that Constitutional amendments do not take effect until one hundred years after being ratified.

That should pretty well take the personal agendas out of the loop. If it is a good idea, it'll keep.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: If The Constitution Is Changed...

Mon Sep 27, 2004 9:52 pm

The 22nd Amendment was passed by a GOP-controlled Congress, since the GOP couldn't handle losing 4 times to FDR. There was a half-hearted attempt by the GOP in the 80's to repeal that and let Reagan run a third time. I wouldn't be surprised if it's proposed again within the next 4 years.

It shouldn't have been put into effect in the first place.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
cptkrell
Posts: 3186
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2001 10:50 pm

RE: If The Constitution Is Changed...

Mon Sep 27, 2004 10:33 pm

I'm thinking an amendment for a single six-year term with no re-election possibilities might be better. A president spends about the second half of the first term campaigning and designing avenues to get re-upped rather than working the job. Would probably help keep other contestants on their job a bit longer, too. Wonder how much time Kerry has spent being a senator lately? Irrespective of your political views (I know some of you will say a Bush six-year term would be disasterous while others will say the longer you can keep Kerry out of Washington, the better), I think a six-year term would be more functional.

BTW, I don't really expect to see any ammendments pertaining to elections to be passed, including modifying the electoral college issue. Regards....Jack
all best; jack
 
airtran737
Posts: 3218
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 3:47 am

RE: If The Constitution Is Changed...

Mon Sep 27, 2004 10:34 pm

I feel that an amendment allowing naturalized citizens to run for president is a good idea. Obviously there need to be some rules, such as the individual needs to have lived here for at least twenty-five years. I cant ever see Arnold being president, I'm sure that the liberal media will pull some stuff out of their ass about him being in the Aryan Nation or some other crap.

As for four more years of Clinton, he made the presidency a joke when he chose to get a b.j. from a fat chick. Term limits have their pros and cons, but I pretty much agree with Air2gxs.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 5423
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:12 am

RE: If The Constitution Is Changed...

Mon Sep 27, 2004 10:41 pm

I'm sure that the liberal media will pull some stuff out of their ass about him being in the Aryan Nation or some other crap.

Or even some stuff by KKK...I mean NRA, claiming that he does not in love guns enough thus unfit for command.
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: If The Constitution Is Changed...

Mon Sep 27, 2004 10:59 pm

As for four more years of Clinton, he made the presidency a joke when he chose to get a b.j. from a fat chick.

His predecessor has made it a bigger joke, by defiling our reputation around the world; in starting a war that should not have been fought; in approving outsourcing of jobs. He's the bigger joke, in my view.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
Klaus
Posts: 20578
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: If The Constitution Is Changed...

Mon Sep 27, 2004 11:00 pm

Cue dialog from Demolition Man (Sandra Bullock and Sylvester Stallone):

LeninaHuxley : I have, in fact, perused some newsreels in the Schwarzenegger Library.

JohnSpartan : Hold it. The Schwarzenegger Library?

LeninaHuxley : Yes. The Schwarzenegger Presidential Library. Wasn't he an actor when you...

JohnSpartan : But how? He was President?

LeninaHuxley : Yes! Even though he wasn't born in this country, his popularity at the time caused the 61st Amendment which states...

JohnSpartan : I don' wanna know. President.


Prophesy! Pure prophesy!  Nuts
 
CaptOveur
Posts: 6064
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 3:13 am

RE: If The Constitution Is Changed...

Mon Sep 27, 2004 11:02 pm

"Simple just require each candidate to take a monitored and written academic exam."

We used to do that for voters. I would say bring it back, but the democrats would never win anything again if you had to have a certain IQ to vote.

The natural born citizen law is outdated and probably should go, I think a term limit is a wise thing but we could probably live without it, the entire House and Senate get by without it.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: If The Constitution Is Changed...

Mon Sep 27, 2004 11:12 pm

I would say bring it back, but the democrats would never win anything again if you had to have a certain IQ to vote.

You don't need an IQ to run, you don't need one to vote. Freedom shouldn't be reserved for those who are educated only. That isn't freedom-what you propose it elitism at it's worst.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
ctbarnes
Posts: 3269
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 2:20 pm

RE: If The Constitution Is Changed...

Tue Sep 28, 2004 12:46 am

This comes up from time to time every time there is a popular foreign-born politician. Other attempts have failed and I don't see this one succeeding either.

Charles, SJ
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
CaptOveur
Posts: 6064
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 3:13 am

RE: If The Constitution Is Changed...

Tue Sep 28, 2004 1:45 am

"You don't need an IQ to run, you don't need one to vote."

Apparently you don't need basic reading comprehension skills to post on this board either because that was not my point.. Nimrod.

Even though some would argue the founding fathers structured the election system, like the electoral college, because they knew the average American was or someday would be too stupid to pick their own leader and there needed to be some way of voiding the votes of the tragically stupid.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

RE: If The Constitution Is Changed...

Tue Sep 28, 2004 1:55 am

As for four more years of Clinton, he made the presidency a joke when he chose to get a b.j. from a fat chick.

His predecessor has made it a bigger joke, by defiling our reputation around the world; in starting a war that should not have been fought; in approving outsourcing of jobs. He's the bigger joke, in my view.


If you meant George W. Bush, then you meant Clinton's successor. His predecessor was George H.W. Bush, so I doubt you meant him - unless you found Bush '41's U.N.-blessed Gulf War to be a war that shouldn't have been fought, too.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
NUAir
Posts: 1144
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2000 4:24 am

RE: If The Constitution Is Changed...

Tue Sep 28, 2004 1:59 am

Finally Fidel Castro will be able to run for el presidente of the US.

After beating out all of our presidents since before the cold war I think he has a chance  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

The funny thing is all the neo cons would probably vote for him because of his domestic priorities, ability to use military control over its people, "constitutional" amendments and his stance on prostitution, abortion and gay marriage! Plus he would probably kill all those pesky liberals at PBS who keep questioning the Republicans foreing policy and making Bush look bad Dan Rather would be sittin on death row. Arnold would be on the liberal side of a Republican primary...





"How Many Assholes we got on this ship?" - Lord Helmet
 
slider
Posts: 6805
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: If The Constitution Is Changed...

Tue Sep 28, 2004 4:56 am

I don't think the Constitution should be altered to accommodate this.

Furthermore, I am a huge advocate of term limits, as being a career politician was not intended by the Founding Fathers. Moreover, I think a modern spin on it should be that if you decide to run for President and are a current office holder, you ought to relinquish your seat.

 
Klaus
Posts: 20578
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

Slider

Tue Sep 28, 2004 5:19 am

Slider: Furthermore, I am a huge advocate of term limits, as being a career politician was not intended by the Founding Fathers.

Are incompetent rich guys who just happen to get pushed on stage for a while really that much better? I don´t think so.
 
slider
Posts: 6805
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: If The Constitution Is Changed...

Tue Sep 28, 2004 5:30 am

Klaus,
Perhaps you misunderstood my point...I'd like to see term limits so that the incompetent rich guys WILL get pushed OFF the stage, allowing real citizens the ability to take back their government. It's become a career for them, one that enriches their pockets at the expense of others.

And McCain-Feingold only set true reform back, instead of improving it.
 
BN747
Topic Author
Posts: 5344
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

RE: If The Constitution Is Changed...

Tue Sep 28, 2004 6:10 am

... Plus he would probably kill all those pesky liberals at PBS who keep questioning the Republicans foreing policy and making Bush look bad Dan Rather would be sittin on death row. Arnold would be on the liberal side of a Republican primary...


Nu Air... that was freakin' hilarious!


BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
NUAir
Posts: 1144
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2000 4:24 am

RE: If The Constitution Is Changed...

Tue Sep 28, 2004 6:17 am

McCain and Feingold are the only ones even attempting to set campaign financing limits. The problem they had is that everytime they introduced a new bill it got shot down by congress so they pretty much had to give up and propose a half ass billed, which while not what they originally wanted did put in some limitations.

But don't put the blame on the only two senators who are actually trying to address the issue! Plus they continue to fight for reform which I dont see anyone else doing.

Feingold is really the average middle class American and he still lives in his same house in Middleton, WI. I knew his daughter growing up and her and her family are the same typical American family they have always been. Feingold is still the "poorest" senator and it is clear by his voting history that he has never represented big business and could care less about corporate donnors to his campaign (both of my parents are currently volunteering on his re-election campaign).

He is also the only senator who read the late night revised Patriot Act which differed greatly from the copy presented to the Senate a few days before the voting and was the only one to vote against it because it was in clear violation of the constitution, which I and the other voters of Wisconsin elected him to uphold.

But going back to the original topic I think anyone who is a citizen of this country and who pays taxes to support our government should have the right to run for its highest office.

"How Many Assholes we got on this ship?" - Lord Helmet
 
jpetekyxmd80
Posts: 3959
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:16 am

RE: If The Constitution Is Changed...

Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:05 am

I feel that the natural born citizen law is not consistent with so called American opportunity or ideals. Let the voter decide, not the birthplace.

As for the term limit, you have to remember that this was an ideal in place since the precedent was set by George Washington as a lasting effect of the British Empire- the fear of giving a single person too much power. This precedent has been widely accepted through history, with the exception being FDR during wartime, which is an acceptable reason in my opinion. I have to say that I agree with the two term limit.

Also, perhaps the weakest part of our executive political system is the 2 term system where so much of a first term is indeed spent on campaigning for a second. I would strongly support a single 6 year term or similar concept.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
Klaus
Posts: 20578
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

Slider

Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:08 am

Slider: Klaus, Perhaps you misunderstood my point...

Not really... I just couldn´t hold my sarcasm before it sunk its teeth into your leg... It´s just playing, you know... Big grin


Slider: I'd like to see term limits so that the incompetent rich guys WILL get pushed OFF the stage, allowing real citizens the ability to take back their government. It's become a career for them, one that enriches their pockets at the expense of others.

I think that´s a solid argument. I know it´s difficult to make major changes.

We´ve got our own problems, but all in all I think our system isn´t too bad:

Instead of focusing on the individual politician, it´s based on the political parties; The parties get public financing proportional to their electoral success. This makes them largely (but not totally) independent of other sources of income. The rest still comes from donations (predominantly for the big-money-friendly parties) or from membership fees and commercial activities (as in the case of the social democrats).

We do have career politicians, but most of them were never rich and they won´t get rich through their office (although salaries for public office are not exactly bad). Most politicians are lawyers or public servants in "civil life".

Since the parties play a much larger role in the political process, there is much more consistency and continuity and a stronger focus on the issues. Some politicians do indeed become entrenched in their office (Helmut Kohl being a not-so-brilliant example), but they cannot carry on without being supported by both their party and their voters.

And I think that actual experience is a good thing in a politician who´s expected to deal with complex administrative and planning issues above all. You can´t just "wing it" all the time as an unexperienced newbie. And doing major reform surgery can take more than one or two terms as we´re seeing in Germany right now. I think it can make sense to keep the same team at it if they can convince the public.

The private lives of politicians are usually strictly off limits for the press, unless they themselves choose to make it public. It is certainly due to cultural differences as well, but I think the missing fixation on the person of a politician has turned out to be a blessing all in all. I know some people think they can gauge a politician´s qualities for office by his private life, but that´s apparently not the case from what we´ve seen over here. (The whole Clinton scandal was more a "scandal scandal"; If Starr hadn´t started a public witch hunt Clinton and Ms. Lewinsky would have hurt absolutely nobody except maybe the feelings of Hillary (but without the drawn-out public humiliation so celebrated by Starr et al). JFK screwed anything in a skirt and nobody thinks he was a bad president because of that. It´s not so much that the presidents have changed but the public environment, it seems.)

I certainly won´t advocate a one-to-one adaptation of our system in the USA (it´s flawed as well in several points), but maybe some of the basic tenets or your system should be re-assessed. Some problems it tries to address may not be that relevant (any more) and others may need more attention than originally anticipated.

Reducing the stifling influence of "interested" campaign contributions and of personal wealth does look like a good start, in any case...
 
redngold
Posts: 6673
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2000 12:26 pm

RE: If The Constitution Is Changed...

Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:14 am

Remember that any constitutional amendment has to be passed by 3/4 of the states' legislatures before it can become law.

That is the battleground. That is when you're going to see a marked difference between the states with a high immigrant population (i.e. California, New York, Florida) and the ones that don't.

I don't know how to express my feelings on this one because I can see both sides of it. We are a nation born on the premise of all men being created equal, yet there remains inequality among us. As a natural-born citizen, I'd rather work on our problems internally... but I know plenty of immigrants who are qualified to work on the same problems that plague this nation.

I dunno... (head starts spinning)
Up, up and away!

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Beardown91737, seb146 and 43 guests