myk
Posts: 434
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 8:56 pm

Fingerprints And Pic. Welcome In USA

Tue Sep 28, 2004 2:02 pm

I guess that everyone knows here that the rules are changing for entering the USA. Even europeans will need to show fingerprints and smile in front of a camera when entering the USA !
What a waiste of money ! I know a lot of people who will prefer friendly Canada or other places in the world where you are welcomed a little bit nicer.

So, what is your opinion about it ???
 
jasepl
Posts: 3499
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:15 pm

RE: Fingerprints And Pic. Welcome In USA

Tue Sep 28, 2004 2:20 pm

America - or any country for that matter - should be free to do what they want within their borders. If they want all foreigners to be fingerprinted before being allowed to enter, so be it. It's not as if we're being forced to go to America. We always do have the choice to not go.

I associate fingerprinting with being a criminal or being illiterate. I'm neither, so I have no desire to get printed. Consequently, you won't be seeing me in America again - unless it is an absolute emergency. Not that they'd miss me  Big grin
 
Mir
Posts: 19092
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Fingerprints And Pic. Welcome In USA

Tue Sep 28, 2004 2:32 pm

It sure is degrading for foreigners to be treated like common thugs that have to be carefully regulated. But with the mindset of this country, there's not much else that can be done.

I will say, though, that if you're going to make people from a few countries do it, you should make everyone do it.
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
JeffM
Posts: 7569
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 3:32 am

RE: Fingerprints And Pic. Welcome In USA

Tue Sep 28, 2004 2:35 pm

"So, what is your opinion about it ???"

Have fun in canada.... !

 Big grin
 
JOSEMEX
Posts: 1437
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 1999 11:44 am

RE: Fingerprints And Pic. Welcome In USA

Tue Sep 28, 2004 2:38 pm



IMHO, European countries should have started doing the same thing long ago.

BTW, I've been treated worse going through immigration in Canada than any time I've entered the US.
 
QIguy24
Posts: 2744
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 1:13 am

RE: Fingerprints And Pic. Welcome In USA

Tue Sep 28, 2004 2:39 pm

It's a shame that it has to be like that.
But like Mir said. Either everyone does it or no one is doing it.
One thing is for sure. It sure wont stop me from going to the US on vacation.
It's just a picture. But I hope that the fingerprint dust wont mess up my clothes like last time I had to do finger prints at the police station.
 
jasepl
Posts: 3499
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:15 pm

RE: Fingerprints And Pic. Welcome In USA

Tue Sep 28, 2004 2:42 pm

QIguy, it's digital, so no dust. Your clothes are safe!
 
commander_rabb
Posts: 723
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2000 6:59 am

RE: Fingerprints And Pic. Welcome In USA

Tue Sep 28, 2004 4:01 pm

A digital fingerprint and a photo. Oh God it's the end of the world! And visitors will be up 3% in the next year.

Spare us Americans!

Written with a HUGE dose of sarcasm.
 
NWA742
Posts: 4505
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 11:35 am

RE: Fingerprints And Pic. Welcome In USA

Tue Sep 28, 2004 4:07 pm





-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
QIguy24
Posts: 2744
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 1:13 am

RE: Fingerprints And Pic. Welcome In USA

Tue Sep 28, 2004 4:14 pm

QIguy, it's digital, so no dust. Your clothes are safe!

Phew!! Thank god for that. But I think I learned a lesson from last time Big grin
 
jasepl
Posts: 3499
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:15 pm

RE: Fingerprints And Pic. Welcome In USA

Tue Sep 28, 2004 4:23 pm

How did you end up at the poilce station? Were you being naughty?
 
QIguy24
Posts: 2744
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 1:13 am

RE: Fingerprints And Pic. Welcome In USA

Tue Sep 28, 2004 4:27 pm

Lol! Big grin

Well. I ended up at the police station because of a class trip in 9th grade  Sad
We had to visit the local police station to se how they worked.
 
jasepl
Posts: 3499
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:15 pm

RE: Fingerprints And Pic. Welcome In USA

Tue Sep 28, 2004 6:09 pm

Hmmm... So were they just demonstrating how they fingerprint people, or did you do something to the cops?  Smile
 
Mir
Posts: 19092
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Fingerprints And Pic. Welcome In USA

Tue Sep 28, 2004 6:18 pm

Just as a thought, why can't we take these photographs and fingerprints when the people apply for visas? It would make much more sense, and people wouldn't have to have their first moments in the US soured by having to be treated like criminals.
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
9V-SPF
Posts: 1340
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2001 6:42 pm

RE: Fingerprints And Pic. Welcome In USA

Tue Sep 28, 2004 6:19 pm

Well, I´m not delighted by the thought of the immigration process being furtherly slowed down but it will certainly not stop me from visiting that great country where I´ve had a wonderful time each time I was travelling there.

Why should a digital fingerprint and a lousy picture of my face prevent me from travelling where I like to travel the most? I think that some people here are hypersensitive whenever it comes to US security measures, no matter if these measures have any sense or not.
 
QIguy24
Posts: 2744
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 1:13 am

RE: Fingerprints And Pic. Welcome In USA

Tue Sep 28, 2004 6:23 pm

I just came to think of one thing.

What if you are a pretty big person and have a fat face while taking your picture and return to the US about 1 year later after loosing alot of weight.

How do they do that? Will they take a new picture if you can't be recognized on the old?
 
707CMF
Posts: 4698
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2002 5:39 pm

RE: Fingerprints And Pic. Welcome In USA

Tue Sep 28, 2004 6:24 pm

I don't really see a problem with that myself.

It is better than having people rejected at borders because they have the misfortune of sharing the name of an Al Qeida suspect.

Heck, when I see that I can drive from France to Switzerland 4 or 6 times in a day, and never be ask any ID - I even smuggled a cat once ! (but I was only in transit and drove her back to France in the same day, I did not introduce permantently and illegaly my Pluchette in CH).

Introducing the same system in Europe would help authorities apprehending waned fugitives.

cheers,

707
 
jasepl
Posts: 3499
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:15 pm

RE: Fingerprints And Pic. Welcome In USA

Tue Sep 28, 2004 6:26 pm

Just as a thought, why can't we take these photographs and fingerprints when the people apply for visas? It would make much more sense, and people wouldn't have to have their first moments in the US soured by having to be treated like criminals.

Mir, people do have to get printed and photographed when they apply for visas. Then, when they ahow up at an American port, they get printed and photographed again. Finally, and I don't know if this is operational yet, they get printed again at the time of departure.

******


Why should a digital fingerprint and a lousy picture of my face prevent me from travelling where I like to travel the most? I think that some people here are hypersensitive whenever it comes to US security measures, no matter if these measures have any sense or not.

You could call me hypersensitive 9V. Who knows, perhaps I am. As I said though, "I associate fingerprinting with being a criminal or being illiterate. I'm neither, so I have no desire to get printed. Consequently, you won't be seeing me in America again - unless it is an absolute emergency. Not that they'd miss me  Big grin"

******


It is better than having people rejected at borders because they have the misfortune of sharing the name of an Al Qeida suspect.
707, but airlines are already handing over all kinds of information on their passengers before the flight even gets off the ground. Remember the fight the EC and the Americans got into over sharing of passenger data? Besides, where does it end? How long will everyone keep saying on s'habitue?

[Edited 2004-09-28 11:33:56]
 
Mir
Posts: 19092
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Fingerprints And Pic. Welcome In USA

Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:05 pm

Ok, then. I don't know why they have to do it so many times, but if they have to do it, then they have to do it. It's a shame, but what can you do? I'd much rather have them put some effort into making sure that the people who do the picture-taking and fingerprinting are civil and polite. I think that that will be much appreciated by the visiting public.
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
jasepl
Posts: 3499
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:15 pm

RE: Fingerprints And Pic. Welcome In USA

Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:17 pm

I'd much rather have them put some effort into making sure that the people who do the picture-taking and fingerprinting are civil and polite. I think that that will be much appreciated by the visiting public.

I agree. When I showed up at O'Hare earlier this year, the passport guy was reall nice, he even said Welcome to America - nice touch! Not very bright though...
 
QANTAS077
Posts: 5171
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 5:08 pm

RE: Fingerprints And Pic. Welcome In USA

Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:18 pm

just aslong as US citizens don't get all shitty when other coutries start doing it to them!  Big grin

the new system means that every national from every country except canada and mexico will be photographed and fingerprinted, from what i understand that info is crosschecked with US watchlists for a possible match.

you'd have to be on the watchlist for it to really affect you.
 
jasepl
Posts: 3499
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:15 pm

RE: Fingerprints And Pic. Welcome In USA

Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:23 pm

from what i understand that info is crosschecked with US watchlists for a possible match.

The info is meant to be crosschecked 077. Doesn't mean it happens!

you'd have to be on the watchlist for it to really affect you

Considering the kinds of people who's names have somahow ended up on the watchlist, anyone could be affected. Including long dead Americans, from what someone posted on another topic!
 
QIguy24
Posts: 2744
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 1:13 am

RE: Fingerprints And Pic. Welcome In USA

Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:23 pm

You'd have to be on the watchlist for it to really affect you.

Yusuf Islam wasn't on that list. He got sent back to UK right away Big grin It sure did affect him.

I just hope to god that no Terrorist has the same name as me Big grin
 
jasepl
Posts: 3499
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:15 pm

RE: Fingerprints And Pic. Welcome In USA

Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:25 pm

I just hope to god that no Terrorist has the same name as me

LOL! I'm changing my name to QIguy24...
 
QIguy24
Posts: 2744
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 1:13 am

RE: Fingerprints And Pic. Welcome In USA

Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:32 pm

LOL! I'm changing my name to QIguy24...

Oh please don't! Then I'm totally f*cked!! Big grin

But if you really want QIguy24 written in your passport be my guest. I'm sure they have been spying on A.net and seen all the shit I have been writing in here  Big grin
 
QANTAS077
Posts: 5171
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 5:08 pm

RE: Fingerprints And Pic. Welcome In USA

Tue Sep 28, 2004 8:42 pm

Yusuf Islam was recently added to that list, rather foolishly too! he was allowed into the US as little as 3 months ago!  Big grin
 
DIJKKIJK
Posts: 1782
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 11:03 pm

RE: Fingerprints And Pic. Welcome In USA

Tue Sep 28, 2004 8:57 pm

Finally, and I don't know if this is operational yet, they get printed again at the time of departure.

No, they don't fingerprint you when you depart. In fact, you don't even have to go through an exit immigration. At least I didn't have to the last time I was there.
All that stuff happens only when you arrive.


How do they do that? Will they take a new picture if you can't be recognized on the old?

They fingerprint and photograph you EVERYTIME you enter. And they have all your passport records as well. Notice the next time that the guy in the immigration swipes the info-page of your passport through a scanner? All the stuff about you gets recorded in there.



Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
 
jasepl
Posts: 3499
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:15 pm

RE: Fingerprints And Pic. Welcome In USA

Tue Sep 28, 2004 9:03 pm

But if you really want QIguy24 written in your passport be my guest. I'm sure they have been spying on A.net and seen all the shit I have been writing in here

Have you seen the crap I've written? Better you than me, QI!  Big grin

No, they don't fingerprint you when you depart. In fact, you don't even have to go through an exit immigration. At least I didn't have to the last time I was there.
All that stuff happens only when you arrive.


Ah! I guess they haven't started the departure part of it yet. Sooner or later, people will have to do the fingerprinting thing on their way out.

[Edited 2004-09-28 14:06:02]
 
QIguy24
Posts: 2744
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 1:13 am

RE: Fingerprints And Pic. Welcome In USA

Tue Sep 28, 2004 9:06 pm

Yusuf Islam was recently added to that list, rather foolishly too! he was allowed into the US as little as 3 months ago

The funny thing is that he actually didn't appear on that list. They made a huge mistake. It was Youssuf Islam and not Yusuf Islam. Big grin
They didn't read the list correctly.
 
jasepl
Posts: 3499
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:15 pm

RE: Fingerprints And Pic. Welcome In USA

Tue Sep 28, 2004 9:09 pm

Like I said in response to Mir's post: Nice people, but not very bright.
 
qr332
Posts: 2592
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:16 pm

RE: Fingerprints And Pic. Welcome In USA

Tue Sep 28, 2004 10:16 pm

But if you really want QIguy24 written in your passport be my guest. I'm sure they have been spying on A.net and seen all the shit I have been writing in here

LOL! Big grin if that was the case then i'm more screwed than you are!

I had a digital fingerprint taken here when I got my visa as well as a picture, which I had to take with a white background, etc. It is probably the same process, it takes a couple of minutes, so nothing to worry about.
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
Marcus
Posts: 1666
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2001 5:08 am

RE: Fingerprints And Pic. Welcome In USA

Tue Sep 28, 2004 11:40 pm

As a Mexican, when you apply for a US visa you are photographed and fingerprinted, then a few weeks later in the mail you will received your "visa" it is creditcard sized and it has your picture, fingerprint, the faces of all the US Presidents and the flags of all the US States, plus a bunch of other evident and hidden security measures, when you drive in to the US you show this card instead of your passport, when you walk accros and when you arrive on an international flight this card is swiped on an electronic reader, your picture and fingerprint show up on the screen so you don't have to do the same process over again, maybe if this was implemented to everyone who needs a visa (or maybe it already has......I don't know) it would make the international arrival areas at US airports much friendlier places, as for people from countries on the visa waiver program (most of Europe) I can see how doing this at the airport can be a drag.

I don't think the problem is the process itself but rather the rude and condescending attitude a lot of the agents have at every US port of entry, not all of them but a pretty sizeable number do, I have walked, driven and flown in to the US on various ports of entry and on various ocasions, I have had good and bad experiences.............so I guess it all depends on the mood of the agent you end up with.

[Edited 2004-09-28 16:46:52]
Kids!....we are going to the happiest place on earth...TIJUANA! signed: Krusty the Clown
 
Guest

RE: Fingerprints And Pic. Welcome In USA

Tue Sep 28, 2004 11:56 pm

Cry about it. It is a DIGITAL fingerprint, and they take a snapshot of you. It is a 10 second process. If it protects us what's the big deal? You are not treated like a criminal. It has nothing to do with friendliness, but rather safety. If this would be a life altering event for you then we don't want you to come.
 
jasepl
Posts: 3499
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:15 pm

RE: Fingerprints And Pic. Welcome In USA

Wed Sep 29, 2004 12:20 am

Cry about it. It is a DIGITAL fingerprint, and they take a snapshot of you. It is a 10 second process. If it protects us what's the big deal? You are not treated like a criminal. It has nothing to do with friendliness, but rather safety. If this would be a life altering event for you then we don't want you to come

Too late hon. Some of us aren't coming!
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 5423
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:12 am

RE: Fingerprints And Pic. Welcome In USA

Wed Sep 29, 2004 12:30 am

Cry about it. It is a DIGITAL fingerprint, and they take a snapshot of you. It is a 10 second process. If it protects us what's the big deal?


If it's no big deal why some of you fellow compatriots could almost shit themselves - and some even got arrested like that idiot pilot - when Brazil introduced the very same measure???
You don't have to answer - your nick is an answer.
 
Jarek
Posts: 329
Joined: Tue May 15, 2001 10:55 pm

RE: Fingerprints And Pic. Welcome In USA

Wed Sep 29, 2004 12:48 am

Hi,

Well, going thru the process number of times I don’t find it as a big hassle.

I have a question though. What is the purpose of that? How does it work exactly? How does it make US safer?
I would appreciate the info.

Regards
Jarek
 
jasepl
Posts: 3499
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:15 pm

RE: Fingerprints And Pic. Welcome In USA

Wed Sep 29, 2004 12:51 am

How does it make US safer

Honestly, I can't answer that. It certainly seems to make many Americans feel safer though. Somewhat like a placebo.
 
Guest

RE: Fingerprints And Pic. Welcome In USA

Wed Sep 29, 2004 12:54 am

Jarek, It tries to match your fingerprints and picture with those of known terrorists and criminals. I feel sorry for anybody whos time is so valuable that a ten second process would prevent them from coming to America.

[Edited 2004-09-28 18:01:10]
 
photopilot
Posts: 3061
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2002 11:16 am

RE: Fingerprints And Pic. Welcome In USA

Wed Sep 29, 2004 1:40 am

There are plenty of other countries in the world where I can choose to spend my tourist and shopping dollars. Without the invasion of my privacy or the assault on the security of my person.

As more and more people stop visiting the land of the suspicious and paranoid, and stop spending their money on American products, watch the US interest rates soar to attract the money. How else will Dubya finance the horrendous National Debt and Defecit of the US monetary system. Wait till poor Joe Citizen tries to renew his mortgage at high interest rates. The tune will change and so will the policies.

As for me, I'll travel where I am APPRECIATED as a tourist and treated with RESPECT.

BIG BROTHER ISN'T GOING TO WATCH ME - - - I WON'T LET HIM ! ! !

Steve
 
Jarek
Posts: 329
Joined: Tue May 15, 2001 10:55 pm

RE: Fingerprints And Pic. Welcome In USA

Wed Sep 29, 2004 1:49 am

Bushcheney2004,

So when they scan my fingers it’s compared with the database of the criminals/terrorists?
That’s what it does?

Regards
Jarek
 
9V-SPF
Posts: 1340
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2001 6:42 pm

RE: Fingerprints And Pic. Welcome In USA

Wed Sep 29, 2004 2:07 am

As for me, I'll travel where I am APPRECIATED as a tourist and treated with RESPECT.

Same for me. That´s why I like travelling to the US. A photo and a fingerprint doesn´t change a whole nation´s beauty and people.
 
Guest

RE: Fingerprints And Pic. Welcome In USA

Wed Sep 29, 2004 2:15 am

Jarek, that is exactly what it is. I like your attitude 9V-SPF.
 
Jarek
Posts: 329
Joined: Tue May 15, 2001 10:55 pm

RE: Fingerprints And Pic. Welcome In USA

Wed Sep 29, 2004 2:24 am


Hm, interesting. So theoretically I can go the next time with my fingers only since the Immigrations (or whatever they are called now) can get all my data (my pasport, visa etc.) recognizing the fingerprints.
Or the other way around. Scanning my visa they can link it to my fingerprints in the db so no need for scanning them again.

BTW – how this system is designed so it can compare so much data so quickly?
Also, why not all the nations go through this process? What is the reasoning behind that?

Regards
Jarek
 
Guest

RE: Fingerprints And Pic. Welcome In USA

Wed Sep 29, 2004 2:30 am

Jarek. this should answer your question

The only exceptions will be visitors from 27 countries — most of them European nations whose citizens are allowed to come to the United States for up to 90 days without visas. Ridge said citizens from those countries would have machine-readable passports by October that provided the same information as what the U.S. system checked for.

BTW, I like Poland because they are the only country in the world, besides the U.S, that if the election were today and could vote, would re-elect Bush.

[Edited 2004-09-28 19:32:45]
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 5423
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:12 am

RE: Fingerprints And Pic. Welcome In USA

Wed Sep 29, 2004 2:35 am

Jarek,
if you're asking for reasoning behind all this - reading of the book "1984" by George Orwell might help.
 
Jarek
Posts: 329
Joined: Tue May 15, 2001 10:55 pm

RE: Fingerprints And Pic. Welcome In USA

Wed Sep 29, 2004 2:38 am

Bushcheney2004,

I don’t think machine-readable passports have the fingerprints and other biometric data. That can’t be the reason why not to scan the individuals form those countries.
Also, what about the US citizens? AFAIK there are not scanned as well.

Regards
Jarek
 
Guest

RE: Fingerprints And Pic. Welcome In USA

Wed Sep 29, 2004 2:39 am

Jarek, that was directly from an MSNBC article.
 
Jarek
Posts: 329
Joined: Tue May 15, 2001 10:55 pm

RE: Fingerprints And Pic. Welcome In USA

Wed Sep 29, 2004 2:41 am

Bushcheney2004,

I am not saying that is something my made up. I am just saying I still see no logic in the entire process.

Regards
Jarek
 
Guest

RE: Fingerprints And Pic. Welcome In USA

Wed Sep 29, 2004 2:43 am

Since each fingerprint is unique, it is easy to scan for terrorists and criminals to distinguish yourself. The passports will bring up your photo and fingerprint easily. It is not that hard.
 
Jarek
Posts: 329
Joined: Tue May 15, 2001 10:55 pm

RE: Fingerprints And Pic. Welcome In USA

Wed Sep 29, 2004 2:53 am

Bushcheney2004,

I am not sure I understood your last post. Of course scanning the fingerprints is the way to recognize the individual.

My questions however still remain valid.

How this system is designed so it can compare so much data so quickly?
Why not all the nations go through this process? What is the reasoning behind that?
What about the US citizens? Why they are not scanned?

L410Turbolet,

I read the book. I just hope that US is a bit different than what was described there  Smile

Regards
Jarek

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