Falcon84
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The Most "Hallowed" Ground In Your Country?

Tue Sep 28, 2004 10:37 pm

I'm watching part of Ted Turner's rendition of "Gettysburg", the re-inactment of the great American Civil War battle. Gettysburg, to many Americans, is considered maybe the most hallowed piece of ground in the nation, where more than 50,000 Americans were killed and wounded in 3 days in 1863.

There are other "Gettysburgs", all over this planet-places, where through a baptism of fire and steel, a nation came of age. What is the most hallowed grounds in your nation?
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JeffM
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RE: The Most "Hallowed" Ground In Your Country?

Tue Sep 28, 2004 10:40 pm

Remember the Alamo!


-signed,

All Texans  Big grin
 
QIguy24
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RE: The Most "Hallowed" Ground In Your Country?

Tue Sep 28, 2004 10:45 pm

Here in Denmark we have Rebild Bakker and most of SønderJylland.
 
Falcon84
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RE: The Most "Hallowed" Ground In Your Country?

Tue Sep 28, 2004 10:47 pm

Tell us a little about these places-not just their name. Maybe we can learn a little about each other's history.  Smile
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QIguy24
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RE: The Most "Hallowed" Ground In Your Country?

Tue Sep 28, 2004 10:59 pm

Oh sorry about that guys Big grin

here is some info about one of the more famous wars in SønderJylland.
The war against the Krauts and Preussers Big grin

http://www.milhist.dk/trearskrigen/schles/schles.html


__________________________________________________________________________________________
Here is some info about Rebild Bakker and it wasn't a war there. It just have some very interesting history:

Rebild Bakker was previously a common grazing area for the Rebild farmers' cattle, horses and sheep, and the name of the town is thought to derive from an old Danish word >>rapi<<, meaning scrub. In 1912 a group of Danish Americans acquired the core of the site and donated it to the Danish state. Three conditions were attached to the gift: The area was to remain in a natural state, open to everybody, and the Danish Americans were to be allowed to celebrate American holidays in the hills. For 150 years The State Forest Service has acquired other areas in the district beginning with Dybdals Hoved, which once belonged to a manor called Great Restrup. The whole area as well as the adjoining Lindenborg river valley is now a nature reserve. The preservation of a combination of scrub and heather is also desired.

Source: Skov og natur styrelsen




[Edited 2004-09-28 16:08:59]
 
gkirk
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RE: The Most "Hallowed" Ground In Your Country?

Tue Sep 28, 2004 11:07 pm

Bannockburn!  Big thumbs up
More info can be found here


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ryanb741
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RE: The Most "Hallowed" Ground In Your Country?

Tue Sep 28, 2004 11:16 pm

St Mary's stadium, Southampton  Big grin

Seriously though, I don't think the UK's most hallowed ground is actually in the UK - I reckon it would be in Normandy where the beach landings took place.
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
jasepl
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RE: The Most "Hallowed" Ground In Your Country?

Tue Sep 28, 2004 11:26 pm

How about Agincourt, Ryan? Or maybe even Waterloo? So much more satisfaction in whipping the French than the Germans!

[Edited 2004-09-28 16:33:38]
 
slider
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RE: The Most "Hallowed" Ground In Your Country?

Tue Sep 28, 2004 11:30 pm

This is a really good thought-provoking thread....good call Falcon. Gettysburg is definitely a contender.

* San Jacinto Battleground State Park: just outside Houston, on the banks of what is now the Ship Channel, lies a monument (an obelisk 15 feet taller than the Washington Monument no less) on the site of the battle of San Jacinto. People focus on the Alamo, but it is here in 1836 where Texas' independence from Mexico was won in a ferocious short battle. The result lead indirectly to the eventual addition of Texas and most of the American Southwest.

* The USS Arizona monument...visiting that, seeing the hulk of the battleship beneath the water is a humbling and moving experience. The events of the morning of December 7, 1941 changed us forever.

There are probably numerous ones I could think of, but those 2 immediately popped into my head. I'd add Lambeau Field too.  Wink/being sarcastic

 
707CMF
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RE: The Most "Hallowed" Ground In Your Country?

Tue Sep 28, 2004 11:31 pm

For France, I would have to say Verdun.

Peace to the souls of these soldiers.

Cheers,

707
 
Qb001
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RE: The Most "Hallowed" Ground In Your Country?

Tue Sep 28, 2004 11:55 pm

In Canada, a top contender would be the Plains of Abraham.



It was the location of a battle between the English and French army. It seems to have been only one of the many battles between England and France that took place during the seven year's war. But this one proved decisive for the control of North America.

France, thanks to the incompetence of its king, was so in debt that it could not afford to even try and win this war. And France didn't really have an American policy at the time; it thought that only the "civilized world" (aka Europe) was of any significant importance.

More details about this decisive battle and its context can be found here or here.
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peterpuck
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RE: The Most "Hallowed" Ground In Your Country?

Tue Sep 28, 2004 11:58 pm

Vimy Ridge and Juno Beach, both in France, I would say.

Vimy is where Canadians broke through the previously impenetrable German lines in WW1.

Juno was our beach on D-Day.
 
futureualpilot
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RE: The Most "Hallowed" Ground In Your Country?

Wed Sep 29, 2004 12:03 am

In the U.S., I would say Arlington National Cemetary is a contender. I will second the U.S.S. Airzona memorial as well.

[Edited 2004-09-28 17:03:47]
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N6376M
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RE: The Most "Hallowed" Ground In Your Country?

Wed Sep 29, 2004 12:12 am

Over time I think the crash sight of UA93 will receive the recognition it deserves. Every time I think about what those brave passengers did to prevent an attack on our Capitol or Whitehouse (they're still not sure where it was headed), I get chills.

If ever ground has been consecrated by the blood of brave citizens looking to defend their country from attack, it's got to be this place. This was a self-less act of honor that compares favorably with all the others mentioned above.
 
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RE: The Most "Hallowed" Ground In Your Country?

Wed Sep 29, 2004 12:19 am

Bit difficult of a question for a German, since we've been the ones who got beat the last two times.

I'd nominate the Reichstag building which is now home to the Bundestag, and was the stage for lots of Germany's history. But there's a lot more places, like these:

- the cathedral of Aachen
- Sanssouci, a Versailles-style castle in Potsdam near Berlin
- the city of Weimar, where Goethe and Schiller lived for a long time
- Paulskirche in Frankfurt, where the "first German parliament" assembled in 1848
- concentration camp memorials like Buchenwald
- the Berlin Wall memorial: http://www.berliner-mauer-dokumentationszentrum.de/index_e.html
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prosa
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RE: The Most "Hallowed" Ground In Your Country?

Wed Sep 29, 2004 12:20 am

Over time I think the crash sight of UA93 will receive the recognition it deserves. Every time I think about what those brave passengers did to prevent an attack on our Capitol or Whitehouse (they're still not sure where it was headed), I get chills.

Not to take away from the bravery of the passengers in any way, but hadn't both the Capitol and White House been evacuated? If that's the case, which I believe is true, the passengers' actions prevented property damage (which would have been repaired quickly in any event) but did not actually save lives.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
N6376M
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RE: The Most "Hallowed" Ground In Your Country?

Wed Sep 29, 2004 12:25 am

PROSA, to the best of my knowledge, the passengers had no idea that the Capitol and the WH had been evacuated. Furthermore, the image of a burning US Capitol building or WH would have given the US a tremendous black eye.

Do the deaths of American forces in the Battle of New Orleans after the end of the War of 1812 mean any less because the British had already surrendered?

When you ask why people don't respect you, you might want to consider that it's a direct results of posts like this.
 
Falcon84
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RE: The Most "Hallowed" Ground In Your Country?

Wed Sep 29, 2004 12:35 am

Gettysburg, to me, is the place. It was the turning point of the Civil War; it, along with the fall of Vicksburg the next day, sealed the fate of the Confederacy.

It was the bloodiest battle Americans have ever fought-some 50,000 casualties in 3 days of battle. It was the end of the days of slavery, the end of the agrarian United States, as it was known, and of the idea of a loose confederation of states, and signaled the beginning of the struggle, that lasted for a century thereafter, for equality for blacks, of the industrial revolution, and of a strong federal government.

It was the worst mistake Robert E. Lee made. Had he listened to his #1, James Longstreet, and put his forces between the Army of the Potomic and Washington, he could have fought on ground of his choosing, and, possibly, ended the war with the CSA remaining independent.

It was a battle that Lee shouldn't have fought, but, as the fates have it so often, was destined to be fought-a pivot in our history. It was where this nation grew out of it's infancy as a nation, and forged itself as a nation to be reckoned with on the world stage.

The fighting went on for two more sad, bloody years, but the fate of that war was sealed when those two armies left Gettysburg on July 4, 1863.
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jasepl
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RE: The Most "Hallowed" Ground In Your Country?

Wed Sep 29, 2004 12:40 am

Bannockburn

But it didn't last Kirk... Today being evidence
 
prosa
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RE: The Most "Hallowed" Ground In Your Country?

Wed Sep 29, 2004 12:46 am

PROSA, to the best of my knowledge, the passengers had no idea that the Capitol and the WH had been evacuated. Furthermore, the image of a burning US Capitol building or WH would have given the US a tremendous black eye.
Do the deaths of American forces in the Battle of New Orleans after the end of the War of 1812 mean any less because the British had already surrendered?
When you ask why people don't respect you, you might want to consider that it's a direct results of posts like this.


What's so bad with what I said? I would tend to doubt that the passengers fought back because they thought there were people in the Capitol or White House still at risk, or even that those buildings were targeted; they probably were trying to save their own lives, unfortunately things didn't work out that way. They still acted bravely in any event. That's what really counts.
Yes, the sight of the Capitol or White House in flames would have looked bad, though in the grand scheme of things the fact of 3,000 dead at the WTC and Pentagon is immeasurably worse. Structures can be rebuilt, though quite typically New York is doing a remarkably incompetent job with the WTC site, but lives cannot be restored. Besides, think of what a boost the nation would have gotten a year or so later when the Capitol or White House reopened, fully restored.
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Gman94
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RE: The Most "Hallowed" Ground In Your Country?

Wed Sep 29, 2004 1:56 am

As Ryanb741 has stated I don't think the UK's most hallowed ground is actually in the UK. I consider Normandy, Waterloo, Arnhem and the skies over South East England the areas that are most hallowed.

As the saying goes 'There is a corner of a foreign field that is forever England'.
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prosa
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RE: The Most "Hallowed" Ground In Your Country?

Wed Sep 29, 2004 2:02 am

Do the deaths of American forces in the Battle of New Orleans after the end of the War of 1812 mean any less because the British had already surrendered?

Their deaths may have been in vain, but that does not mean they weren't brave. Individual bravery can exist even when the overall outcome is not favorable. The 58,000+ American deaths in Vietnam ultimately were pointless,* but that should not detract from such individual acts of heroism may exist.
* = I fear the same may be true for the 1,000+ deaths in Iraq  Sad
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bruno
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RE: The Most "Hallowed" Ground In Your Country?

Wed Sep 29, 2004 2:30 am

United States



LAS VEGAS!





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StevenUhl777
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RE: The Most "Hallowed" Ground In Your Country?

Wed Sep 29, 2004 3:49 am

Aloges:

Wouldn't the Deutsches Eck in Koblenz, at the confluence of the Rhine and Mosel, be on that list as well? I've heard it compared to the Alamo, not sure if that's a valid comparison or not...

For the US, I would add the WTC site as well, once the new buildings are up, the 'footprints' of the two towers will certainly be hallowed ground.
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photopilot
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RE: The Most "Hallowed" Ground In Your Country?

Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:11 am

Queenstown Heights, Niagara Penninsula, Ontario, Canada.

U.S. Major General Stephen Van Rensselaer has command of a sizable army near Lewiston, New York but is far from inspired by the quality of his troops. To make matters worse, Van Rensellaer is a major general of the militia and receives little respect from the officers of the regular army. But he is under pressure from the President and must act.

Early in the morning of October 13, 1812, Van Rensselaer attacks across the Niagara River. Despite heavy British fire and the treacherous river currents, most of the first wave of the American force reach the Canadian shore. But their objective is Queenston Heights - 80 meters straight above them. They manage to find a fisherman's path and half the force heads up the embankment.

Meanwhile, the small British force at Queenston Heights is heartened by arrival of General Brock from Fort George and news that there are more reinforcements on the way.

Part of the American force reaches the top of the promontory and circles behind the British artillery position. The redcoats are forced from the Heights with only enough time to spike their biggest cannon. The headstrong General Brock decides to counter-attack immediately. Charging ahead of his troops, Isaac Brock is shot and killed.

The battle for control of the Heights continues for hours. The American troops waiting to cross the Niagara refuse to budge. The militiamen can hear the battle-cries of the Mohawks from across the river and suddenly remember their constitutional rights: they cannot be forced to fight on foreign soil. Without reinforcements, it is only a matter of time before the initial American attackers are outnumbered, and trapped, on the Canadian side of the river.

As the British retake the town of Queenston, the US troops on the Heights cannot consolidate their position. Men scramble down the embankment and, crazed with fear, leap from the cliffs. Others hide in the forest or attempt to swim back to the American side. The remaining US troops quickly surrender.

Although this is a decisive victory for the British, it has been won at great cost. Brock has been killed.

The battle at Queenston convinces many people that a defense of Canada is possible. Brock's death becomes a unifying factor for many Upper Canadians; they now have a hero to mourn and a common debt to repay.

Score, Canada 1, USA 0
 
OV735
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RE: The Most "Hallowed" Ground In Your Country?

Wed Sep 29, 2004 5:07 am

In Estonia, one of those places is the hilly region of Sinimäed (Blue Hills), where the "brother-killing battle" took place on September 21st 1944. The 945th Estonian shooters division (belonging to the Soviet army) and the 20th weapons division of the German army met in that region.

It was unknown to those men who fought against each other in different uniforms, that the soldiers they were shooting at were fellow Estonians, and in many cases, their own relatives.

More than 300 men lost their lives in that battle.
 
DeltaMD11
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RE: The Most "Hallowed" Ground In Your Country?

Wed Sep 29, 2004 8:52 am

I would say undeniably that Arlington National Cemetery is the most hallowed ground in this great nation, honoring our nation's brave men and leaders extending over most of the great wars our country has fought in. After that, Gettysburg most definitely.


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Superfly
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RE: The Most "Hallowed" Ground In Your Country?

Wed Sep 29, 2004 9:44 am

Some might claim Kodachrome Basin State Park in southern Utah.




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yyz717
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RE: The Most "Hallowed" Ground In Your Country?

Wed Sep 29, 2004 10:31 am

In Canada, I would say the Plains of Abraham in Quebec City, where the English defeated the French.



[Edited 2004-09-29 03:33:24]
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dl021
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RE: The Most "Hallowed" Ground In Your Country?

Wed Sep 29, 2004 10:37 am

I think that the battlefield at Gettysburg is certainly on the list being the critical turning point of the momentum of the war. So too is the encampment at Valley Forge where the continentals became an army, thanks to a German and a Frenchman, among many others. Cowpens and Yorktown should not be forgotten for their particular significance either.

Also to be considered would be Andersonville National Park and the National Prisoner of War Museum. It was not the only Civil War prison, but the most notorious. The Swiss commandant, Wirz, took the heat, but the blame was not all his. The Union prison near Chicago was its own little Hell as well.

We should add the World Trade Center site (Ground Zero) as well as Shanksville and the Pentagon.

Perhaps we should not forget where a group of representatives from every province put everything they had at risk and signed the Declaration of Independence. Or the National Archive building, where the Constitution that binds and protects these United States of America lays in view of the public.
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csavel
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RE: The Most "Hallowed" Ground In Your Country?

Wed Sep 29, 2004 11:34 am

Good question.

For the US, most other people have already added my selections but here goes...

WTC - I think for a lot of reasons; most people died here; It was telecast, this will be *the* hallowed site of 9/11.. This in no way detracts from Shanksville or DC, it's just the way it is.

Independence Hall in Philly, even though it was destroyed in the name of "security."

Gettysburg

Arlington National Cemetery

USS Arizona memorial in Honolulu

I'd add Ellis Island and Statue of Liberty for obvious reasons. How many Americans can trace their ancestors to Ellis Island?

Old North Church in Boston. The "one if by land and twoif by sea" of Pal Revere fame.

Graceland.
I may be ugly. I may be an American. But don't call me an ugly American.
 
diamond
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RE: The Most "Hallowed" Ground In Your Country?

Wed Sep 29, 2004 1:01 pm

1. Arlington National Cemetery

2. Pearl Harbor / USS Arizona

3. WTC / Ground Zero

Blank.
 
Falcon84
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RE: The Most "Hallowed" Ground In Your Country?

Wed Sep 29, 2004 1:05 pm

I can't agree with Arlington. It is hallowed ground, but it's where those who fought in other hallowed grounds were laid to rest.

Pearl Harbor is up there, becuase of it's significance in getting the U.S. into the greatest conflict man has ever knowns.

And Ground Zero has to be there, although I'm not sure if that even, devistating as it was, can compare to the turning point of a 4 year war that killed over 600,000 Americans.

Another piece of "hallowed ground", which most Americans will never get to see, because of it's remoteness, is Iwo Jima.

I still go with Gettysburg.  Smile
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Confuscius
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RE: The Most "Hallowed" Ground In Your Country?

Wed Sep 29, 2004 1:43 pm

Some might claim Kodachrome Basin State Park in southern Utah.

Another Utah site...


Turret Arch
Arches National Park, UT
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Krushny
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The Most "Hallowed" Ground In Your Country?

Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:42 pm

I would say Covadonga. There in 718 the Asturians defeated the Arabs and established a Christian kingdom with capital in nearby Cangas de Onís, which was the only part of the ancient Roman Hispania out of muslim control. This kingdom was the first of the various Christian ones that fought back the peninsula to the Arabs, and eventually merged to form the country known today as Spain.
There is a lot of myth surrounding this battle. Some chronicles describe it as a tremendous battle with hundreds of thousands of casualties and Saints and Virgins coming down from heaven to deviate rivers to drown the devilish Moors (if you ever visit the place you will notice there is no room for so many people there). The truth of what happened was closer to a skirmish between a patrol of Arab cavalry and some crazy mountaineers, but the history of those remote times is quite obscure, and you know, as it was said in The man who killed Liberty Valance, when there is difference between truth and legend, write the legend!
 
Superfly
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RE: The Most "Hallowed" Ground In Your Country?

Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:52 pm

Confuscius:
I penetrated..err visited Turret Arch at Arches National Park on the same feild trip that I saw Kodachrome Basin back in 1994.



Let's not for get the corner of Haight & Ashbury here in San Francisco.
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iakobos
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RE: The Most "Hallowed" Ground In Your Country?

Wed Sep 29, 2004 6:34 pm

In this peculiar country, all land is hallowed, except my garden.
If it is not for wartime heroism or heroic resistance during occupations times or nesting great civilisations or inventing everything the good world is made of, it is for religious reasons. The data base runs over 5,000+ years.

An extract of hallowed places of "global" significance or knowledge:
Marathon, Salamina, Troy, Pella, Athens, Sparta, Mycene, Corinth, Alexandria (several of them), Ephesus, Knossos, Thyra, Maleme, Tinos, Aegina, Delphi, Nemea, Olympia, Atlantis, Agion Oros, Byzance/Constantinople, Mount Olympus, Vergina, Messolonghi, Kalavryta, Gorgopotamos, Meteora, Thermopylae,.........

 
gkirk
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RE: The Most "Hallowed" Ground In Your Country?

Wed Sep 29, 2004 6:44 pm

Jasepl, yes, but it was and still is the scene of Scotlands greatest ever victory,, which as you said unfortunatly counts for nothing today  Sad

Or you could say the Garden of Rememberence near Lockerbie or anything else related to the Lockerbie disaster as being the saddest area in the county, such as Tundergarth church which was never repaired after the bombing  Sad

As for UK overall, yes, I would suggest places such as Dunkirk, France or other places were British people fought/lost their lives
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iakobos
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RE: The Most "Hallowed" Ground In Your Country?

Wed Sep 29, 2004 6:58 pm

"Bannockburn"

I read in a very old edition of Encyclopedia Britannica that the English knights were not militarily defeated on the field but that they could not stand the smell of the hordes of Picts and retreated out of decency.
I guess the movie was a fiction...
 
jasepl
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RE: The Most "Hallowed" Ground In Your Country?

Wed Sep 29, 2004 9:12 pm

As for UK overall, yes, I would suggest places such as Dunkirk, France or other places were British people fought/lost their lives

That's why I suggested Agincourt or Waterloo. Although, I guess those were more English battles than British. Don't know if many Scots would have fought alongside Henry V or Wellington!
 
JGPH1A
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RE: The Most "Hallowed" Ground In Your Country?

Wed Sep 29, 2004 10:43 pm

Re: Don't know if many Scots would have fought alongside Henry V or Wellington!

Maybe not Henry V, but Wellington, certainly. I'm sure there were Highlands and other Scots regiments at Waterloo.

In fact ever since Union, Scottish regiments have been one of Britains finest secret weapons. They don't even need guns - just give 'em 6 pints each and couple of pickled eggs, any enemy that doesn't succumb to the terrible fumes can be rounded up and knutted to death !
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iakobos
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RE: The Most "Hallowed" Ground In Your Country?

Thu Sep 30, 2004 12:33 am

Wellington was indeed fond of his Scots:
71st foot Glasgow Highland Light infantry (no kilts), 92nd "Gordon" Highlanders (with kilts), 2nd Dragoons "Scot Greys" (no kilts).

To make sure they could inflict max annoyance to the enemy and the least to his own, he carefully posted them a mile away in downwind.

Though, without the (late) appearance of the Prussians on the battlefield he would have drawned in history.
 
gordonsmall
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RE: The Most "Hallowed" Ground In Your Country?

Thu Sep 30, 2004 12:41 am

The Most "Hallowed" Ground In Your Country?

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm .............

That's an easy one! Parkhead Stadium!

Home of a sainted man, Mr Martin O'Neill.


Signed,
All the true football supporters in Scotland!
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MD11Engineer
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RE: The Most "Hallowed" Ground In Your Country?

Thu Sep 30, 2004 1:20 am

Kirkie,

What about Culloden? Brave, but badly lead by "Bonnie" Prince Charlie.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
jasepl
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RE: The Most "Hallowed" Ground In Your Country?

Thu Sep 30, 2004 3:41 am

Maybe not Henry V, but Wellington, certainly. I'm sure there were Highlands and other Scots regiments at Waterloo

I should have thought of that! Didn't Waterloo occur after the Crowns were "united"?
 
Confuscius
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RE: The Most "Hallowed" Ground In Your Country?

Thu Sep 30, 2004 12:11 pm

Let's not for get the corner of Haight & Ashbury here in San Francisco.

...and the Mitchell Brothers' O'Farrell Theatre.

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Goose
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RE: The Most "Hallowed" Ground In Your Country?

Thu Sep 30, 2004 1:15 pm

For me, Dieppe in France is hallowed ground. It's where a force of Commonwealth (mostly Canadian) troops were sent ashore in 1942 to raid the town and test the capabilities of the German defense on the Atlantic Wall. Without adequate air support and artillery fire, they were overwhelmed - but many fought to the death, even when the possibility of retreat became slim.

The Plains of Abraham is an important site as well, as mentioned before in this thread.

The Tomb of the Unknown Soldier in Ottawa, to me, is very important as well - A Canadian Soldier Known Only to God. It symbolizes the spirit of service and sacrifice that made Canada a great country, once. Hopefully we can be one again.
"Talk to me, Goose..."
 
Banco
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RE: The Most "Hallowed" Ground In Your Country?

Thu Sep 30, 2004 8:58 pm

Don't tell Kirkie, but Robert the Bruce was actually a Frenchman.  Wow! Big grin

I'm not sure we have any "hallowed" ground in the UK. There have been so many battles and wars over the centuries over the centuries anyway.

I don't even think that Agincourt (another war between French nobles!), Blenheim or Waterloo are examples, because neither were pivotal to who we are today.

Some naval engagements might be - Trafalgar for example, or the Battle of the Atlantic, as may be the skies over England in the Battle of Britain, but even there I don't think anything qualifies as "hallowed" in the same way that I can see it for the US in some of the examples given above.

It's a funny thing, but we've never gone in for major memorials for those pivotal moments in history. Bosworth and Naseby remain empty fields, and there's just a small memorial outside Dover for the Battle of Britain. Even the key people don't have too much to celbrate them. Visitors are often shocked that Churchill's grave is just a small plot in the family home with an ordinary headstone, nothing more.

I think Kirkie is right about Bannockburn for the Scots though. Battlefields that are all about the identity of a nation are what we are looking for, and for Scotland that is the one (possibly because it's one of very few that they actually won  Big grin ) but I don't think there is an English, or even a British equivalent.
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jasepl
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RE: The Most "Hallowed" Ground In Your Country?

Thu Sep 30, 2004 9:18 pm

You know what Banco? The more often I read your post, the more I see your point. Good job! Also, it's interesting to note some parallels in India.

It's a funny thing, but we've never gone in for major memorials for those pivotal moments in history

We don't seem to have any in India either. I can't think of even one off the top of my head. And of those that do exist, I'm sure most are neglected and dilapidated by now.

Battlefields that are all about the identity of a nation are what we are looking for,

In (modern) India's case, those "battlefields" would surely have to be those where independence was "fought "for. Again, those don't exist. Honestly, the battlefields that define India today appear more than ever to be Eden Gardens (and various other cricket grounds), all of the cinema halls in the country and Parliament House.

[Edited 2004-09-30 14:35:41]
 
JGPH1A
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RE: The Most "Hallowed" Ground In Your Country?

Thu Sep 30, 2004 9:21 pm

Banco

Interesting re Robért Le Brusse - who knew !

I think there are some sites in the UK that might be considered special to the point of hallowedness. I stand to be corrected, but perhaps the Cenotaph in London, and Pall Mall (for patriotic celebrations, state funerals etc). The old Wembley stadium had a mystique all its own as well (pity that had to go). Centre Court at Wimbledon, Lords, Aintree all enjoy practically sacrosanct status in the minds of many, at least.

Re the battlefields, the last invasion of England was in 1066, and 'we' lost essentially. England has never defeated a significant foreign invader on home soil, its always been at sea or on the Continong (and once in the air). Silly little scrapes with the Scots hardly count, and any successes against the Irish are best forgotten as well, being hardly a source of great national pride. All that's left is the Civil War, which while a worthy and necessary struggle for a constitutional monarchy, was won (as so beautiful phrased in '1066 And All That') by the Right But Repulsive Roundheads against the Wrong But Romantic Royalists.
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