KiwiNanday
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Reinstatement Of The Draft

Wed Sep 29, 2004 6:47 am

I've heard that the draft may be reinstated, but can anyone give me the details? This affects me greatly, as in 3 years I will be 18 (eligible for the draft). Please no Bush vs Kerry, I would just like the straight facts.
Silly Islamic extremists, it's just a cartoon!
 
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RE: Reinstatement Of The Draft

Wed Sep 29, 2004 7:00 am

I know that Kerry is for reinstating the draft, and Bush is against it.
 
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RE: Reinstatement Of The Draft

Wed Sep 29, 2004 7:04 am

How do you expect to get reliable information about something that merely exists as an idea only, one that's being supported by few people?
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

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fritzi
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RE: Reinstatement Of The Draft

Wed Sep 29, 2004 7:06 am

Congratulations,

You are the 283rd person to post a thread on this topic within a few months!!!

Learn to use the search function.

 
KiwiNanday
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RE: Reinstatement Of The Draft

Wed Sep 29, 2004 7:06 am

How do you expect to get reliable information about something that merely exists as an idea only, one that's being supported by few people?

I want to know who supports it, and how I can avoid it legally.
Silly Islamic extremists, it's just a cartoon!
 
Guest

RE: Reinstatement Of The Draft

Wed Sep 29, 2004 7:09 am

Fritzi, piss off. The guy is asking an honest question. If you are so sure, than please provde all 283 links.
 
KiwiNanday
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RE: Reinstatement Of The Draft

Wed Sep 29, 2004 7:13 am

Congratulations,

You are the 283rd person to post a thread on this topic within a few months!!!

Learn to use the search function.


I'm sorry, but I'm nervous and worried because I don't want to be forced into military service.
Silly Islamic extremists, it's just a cartoon!
 
WellHung
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RE: Reinstatement Of The Draft

Wed Sep 29, 2004 7:15 am

I know that Kerry is for reinstating the draft, and Bush is against it.

Speaking of pissing off... Do you have anything to back this up? You must be too busy learning an education with Yanksin4 to actually pay attention to anything.
 
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RE: Reinstatement Of The Draft

Wed Sep 29, 2004 7:22 am

How do you expect to get reliable information about something that merely exists as an idea only, one that's being supported by few people?

I want to know who supports it, and how I can avoid it legally.


Finding out who supports it is fairly easy, but the hows and whys of a draft system would take time to put together, so any suggestion on how to avoid the draft (other than "Head to Canada!") would purely be conjecture at this point.

Just read this and relax, ok?

http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/draft.asp
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
CLEfan
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RE: Reinstatement Of The Draft

Wed Sep 29, 2004 7:27 am

From johnkerry.com:

"Asked by a student if he believed the military draft would be resumed, Kerry said to sustained applause and cheers, 'If you elect me president ... I will give us a foreign policy that absolutely makes it unnecessary to have a draft.'"

Source: http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/news/news_2004_0526.html

BushCheney2004,

If the guy is asking a honest question, could you please give him an honest answer?
 
L-188
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RE: Reinstatement Of The Draft

Wed Sep 29, 2004 7:57 am

The draft legislation is the brainchild of one of the most racist members of congress and a democrat.

The White House is against it.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
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RE: Reinstatement Of The Draft

Wed Sep 29, 2004 7:57 am

CLEfan, the problem is he didn't give "an honest answer," as you put it.

Senator Kerry merely sidestepped the question without answering it directly.

"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

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Usairwys757
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RE: Reinstatement Of The Draft

Wed Sep 29, 2004 8:14 am

I know that Kerry is for reinstating the draft, and Bush is against it.

If THAT'S not bullshit, I dont know WHAT is!  Insane
Inactive.....
 
L-188
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RE: Reinstatement Of The Draft

Wed Sep 29, 2004 8:20 am

I don't know about Kerry, but GW and the White House is against.

Just remember who started this, it was Charlie Rangel out of New York, A very hard core democrat.

His reasons for doing it have nothing to do with military strength but rather his own racist policies.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
CLEfan
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RE: Reinstatement Of The Draft

Wed Sep 29, 2004 8:24 am

EA CO AS,

I wasn't referring to Kerry's comment when I said "honest answer." I was referring to BushCheney2004's statement that "Kerry is for reinstating the draft" which is clearly not a honest answer. What truly annoys me is when someone in support of either candidate makes up some fact that is totally false, only to mislead another. This entire election cycle is making me sick. I normally avoid the political threads like the plague, but I felt I had to jump in here to address such a grievous lie.

I guess my interpretation of "I will give us a foreign policy that absolutely makes it unnecessary to have a draft" is different from you. In my opinion, it sounds like Kerry will have a foreign policy that will not require a draft, meaning no draft. It seems direct enough for me.

Bush has also stated that he is opposed to a draft.

I pray that this will be a non-issue and we don't have to worry about a draft.
 
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RE: Reinstatement Of The Draft

Wed Sep 29, 2004 8:55 am

I guess my interpretation of "I will give us a foreign policy that absolutely makes it unnecessary to have a draft" is different from you.

Perhaps, but think of it from this standpoint - the only way Kerry could absolutely guarantee that there would never be a draft would be if we had no armed forces whatsoever.

Sure, it's unlikely that a draft will be required should we go back to pre 9/11 military strength and preparedness...but that's not a guarantee, and if Kerry is guaranteeing that there will never be a draft he's either a moron or he's saying we won't have any armed forces.

And since it's impossible for us to ever lack armed forces....

Well, you get the picture.

[Edited 2004-09-29 01:56:36]
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

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WellHung
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RE: Reinstatement Of The Draft

Wed Sep 29, 2004 9:01 am

the only way Kerry could absolutely guarantee that there would never be a draft would be if we had no armed forces whatsoever... if Kerry is guaranteeing that there will never be a draft he's either a moron or he's saying we won't have any armed forces.

I don't know who you are, but you've totally lost it.
 
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RE: Reinstatement Of The Draft

Wed Sep 29, 2004 9:12 am

I don't know who you are, but you've totally lost it.

How do you figure? I can't wait to hear this...  Insane
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
KiwiNanday
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RE: Reinstatement Of The Draft

Wed Sep 29, 2004 9:14 am

I've heard that the draft may be reinstated, but can anyone give me the details? This affects me greatly, as in 3 years I will be 18 (eligible for the draft). Please no Bush vs Kerry, I would just like the straight facts.

I ask for no Bush vs Kerry... and what do I get?

Another political thread!  Wow!
FFS, can I have a non-biased answer?! This issue is causing me to lose sleep!

Silly Islamic extremists, it's just a cartoon!
 
Mir
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RE: Reinstatement Of The Draft

Wed Sep 29, 2004 9:26 am

There is the possibility that it will be reinstated, of course, with all the wars that we are fighting at the moment. HOWEVER, If you asked me whether there is even a 10% chance of it happening, I would say no. People remember what happened in Vietnam, and they won't be too willing to repeat that fiasco. And Congress knows that.

So don't worry too much about it.
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PPGMD
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RE: Reinstatement Of The Draft

Wed Sep 29, 2004 9:33 am

KiwiNanday,

There will be no draft for the foreseeable future, the draft legislation sponsored by mostly democrats has been cubby holed because the Republicans and the US military doesn't want the draft.

Unless there is a free fire war going on at the moment (think WWII with a draft that had no limit) it takes too long to train the type of soldier needed for the modern conflicts we face, in many cases it would take up to a year (boot, plus training schools and unit transition), by that time they only have about a year to use them. So by the time they are becoming a good soldier they have to release them from service.

That's the one of the reason that the military doesn't want draftees, on top of lowered morale of most conscripted soldiers. And it would be impossible for them to pick and chose the right attitude for the right job, because they have to deal with 2-3 times the amount of soldiers since they would be rotated out of their jobs more often.
At worst, you screw up and die.
 
CaptOveur
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RE: Reinstatement Of The Draft

Wed Sep 29, 2004 9:34 am

KiwiNanday, I have forwarded your user information to a contact I have inside the military. If there is a draft you will be the first called. I suggest you volunteer on your 18th birthday to serve your country (which you are apparently too chicken to do) and avoid being drafted.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
flyingbronco05
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RE: Reinstatement Of The Draft

Wed Sep 29, 2004 9:41 am

As long as Bush keeps sending troops over to Iraq and hundreds keep coming home in body bags, there will be a draft.
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ordflyer
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RE: Reinstatement Of The Draft

Wed Sep 29, 2004 9:41 am

People remember what happened in Vietnam, and they won't be too willing to repeat that fiasco. And Congress knows that.
Absolutely! It would be political suicide (maybe even literal suicide, i'm sure there would be plenty of death threats) for any Congressman to vote in support of reinstating the draft, and the country would be in uproar over it. From what I have heard on the news in the past few months/years, military recruiting has stayed at somewhat steady levels. As long as they keep giving away all that college money in exchange for service they will continue to get volunteers. If anything I think before they reinstated the draft they would increase signing bonuses or whatever to encourage more volunteers. A draft would have to be a last ditch bottom of the barrel last resort!
 
Usairwys757
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RE: Reinstatement Of The Draft

Wed Sep 29, 2004 9:42 am

Captoveur, what a very mature response. Needless to say, it doesnt surprise me one bit from you  Yeah sure. He may not want to serve in the military for whatever reason, its not our business. Thats no reason for you to insult him for not wanting to go in the draft. I'd like to see you over there in Iraq, not knowing if you will make it to see tommorow. Its not about being chicken or not. Nicely done.  Insane
Inactive.....
 
BN747
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RE: Reinstatement Of The Draft

Wed Sep 29, 2004 10:23 am

I agree US757...

Start-ouevr, "I suggest you volunteer to serve your country (or are you too chicken to do) and avoid being drafted?


BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
dl021
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RE: Reinstatement Of The Draft

Wed Sep 29, 2004 10:50 am

Kiwinanday

First things first. If there is a draft and you are of legal age there are not too many ways to avoid it other than college or family deferments, such as you being the sole provider or being the sole child needed for a family enterprise like a farm or business, or physical disability.

I think that if you are willing to prove homosexuality and perform an act in front of the draft board you will probably be let out. I will also say that one of the meanest ugliest blackhats at airborne school turned out to be as gay as a showtune when I hired him after he retired from his twenty years....so being gay won't get you booted, performing for the crowd will.

Last thing, the only people talking about a draft are Charlie Rangel D.NY, and the Kerry campaign operatives who want it to be a fear mongering issue that they can give traction. The likelihood of a draft is pretty miniscule, unless North Korea invades.

funny postscript...I got my "last" notice to register for the draft prior to sending the FBI after me mailed to me in Basic Training and my drill sergeant had to tell them I was already in the army. I assumed (ASS-U-MEA Middle East Airlines (Lebanon)">ME, I memorized that while doing a thousand pushups while the drill wrote the letter) that because I was already in the delayed entry program to enlist when I was 17 I did not have to do it.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
b757300
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RE: Reinstatement Of The Draft

Wed Sep 29, 2004 10:56 am

Only one Republican has suggested bringing back the draft and that is UpChuck Hagel (RINO)-Neb. Hagel is just a mini-me version of McLame (RINO-Arizona) and will say anything to get media coverage.

The two bills to bring back the draft were introduced by Rep. Charles Rangel D-NY and Senator Ernest "Fritzout" Hollings D-SC.

Rangel's co-sponsors are "Baghdad" Jim McDermott (D-WA), (who will not say "Under God" when reciting the Pledge of Allegiance) Neil Abercrombie (D-HI), John Lewis (D-GA) and Pete Stark (D-CA), Corrine Brown (D-FL), Clay Lacy (D-MO), John Conyers (D-MI), Elihag Cumming (D-MD), Alcee Hasting (D-FL) [who was impeached and removed as a federal judge], Sheila Jackson-Lee (D-TX), John Lewis (D-GA), James Moran (D-VA), Nydia Velazquez, (D-NY) and the representatives from the Virgin Islands and Washington D.C.

You may find the text of the bills at http://thomas.loc.gov by searching for bill number S.89 for the Hollings bill or H.R.163 for Rangel's.

President Bush has said he doesn't want a draft. Rumsfeld and the military have said they don't want a draft, and so have most members of Congress. A while back a bill was passed to end the Selective Service registration but it was vetoed by Bill Clinton.

The rumors of a draft, especially the crap circulating by e-mail, is being put out by a George Soros funded group in direct coordination with MTV. As an interesting note, MTV is owned by Viacom which also owns SEE-BS. Anyone remember a recent election hit piece from Dan Rather and SEE-BS?
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
NW747400
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RE: Reinstatement Of The Draft

Wed Sep 29, 2004 11:16 am

Kiwi, Man don't worry about it. I am also three years away from being 18. I seriously doubt that it will be re instated. What happens, happens don't worry about it. If they do bring it backI'll just go sign up to be drafted in case my country needs me, and if they draft me I'll go serve. It's really nothing to lose sleep over. Have a nice night.
NW747400
 
MD-90
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RE: Reinstatement Of The Draft

Wed Sep 29, 2004 11:47 am

Bush has never said that he won't institute a draft after the next election. Remember, the Selective Service received a boost in funding recently, and this was during Bush's administration.


If you're 15, then "worrying" about a draft is a bit premature. I'm 20 years old and very draftable.



A draft is slavery by the state. You are enslaved against your will when you're drafted. Thusly and therefore, I am against any kind of draft.

[Edited 2004-09-29 04:50:25]
 
DC10GUY
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RE: Reinstatement Of The Draft

Wed Sep 29, 2004 12:22 pm

I'm very worried about my 19 year old son ...
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
CaptOveur
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RE: Reinstatement Of The Draft

Wed Sep 29, 2004 12:59 pm

Actually, I am not concerned. I am fast approaching the age cut off. I excercised options I had and went to college instead of joining the military. If there is a draft I will be first in line to volunteer. But that will happen about the time monkeys fly out of Alpha1s ass.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
BN747
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RE: Reinstatement Of The Draft

Wed Sep 29, 2004 5:01 pm

If there is a draft I will be first in line to volunteer. But that will happen about the time monkeys fly out of Alpha1s ass..

yeah Right!

You say that on a chat forum.. but in reality, we'll see if you're the 1st in line. My money says you'll be dialing up Cheney for guidance on seeking deferments...5 if possible!


BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
CaptOveur
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RE: Reinstatement Of The Draft

Wed Sep 29, 2004 11:00 pm

Actually it would be a good way to get out of the house and see the world for a few years. Given how boring my life is at present I have been kicking the idea around of joining up after I graduate. It should piss off my girlfriend to the point her head explodes and my parents wouldn't be too thrilled about it either. The reason I didn't join before is: because of my eyes I did not meet the vision standards to fly right out of high school so the recruiter pretty much said don't bother. I hear the standards are more relaxed now, even more relaxed in the reserves or Air Guard, plus I would already have my college degree. I also heard the Army has even lower physical standards for helicopter pilots.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
MD-90
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RE: Reinstatement Of The Draft

Thu Sep 30, 2004 12:10 am

Low as in -13 and -11.5 diopters?

I wish.
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: Reinstatement Of The Draft

Thu Sep 30, 2004 1:45 am

To understand why there will not be a draft, one only has to look at the roll and size of the Reserve and National Guard forces today vs. the 60's.
 
fritzi
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RE: Reinstatement Of The Draft

Thu Sep 30, 2004 4:50 am

Fritzi, piss off. The guy is asking an honest question.

Get out of my face you little douchebag.

He was asking a honest question, like you said, that has already been discussed enough times, just like the Bush vs. Kerry crap.

KiwiNanday,
Didnt mean to sound rude to you, just tired of seeing all the politics crap


 
B2707SST
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RE: Reinstatement Of The Draft

Thu Sep 30, 2004 7:31 am

Remember, the Selective Service received a boost in funding recently, and this was during Bush's administration.

It did not:

The Selective Service Budget has not been increased.

The scare story also gets it wrong when it claims the budget for the Selective Service is being increased by $28 million in 2004. In fact, the Selective Service System's budget is flat. Its total operating budget was $26 million in fiscal year 2003 (which ended last Sept. 30), and is $26 million for fiscal 2004 as well. Furthermore, the President is asking for $26 million again for fiscal year 2005, and the Office of Management and Budget actually projects that the agency will shrink in size from 161 employees to 156 next year. That's hardly gearing up for a draft.
I'm 23 and not worried at all. The draft story is simply election-year fearmongering by anti-Bush groups. Along with the aforementioned Snopes.com article. http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=200 has a thorough debunking.




--B2707SST
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Northwest717
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RE: Reinstatement Of The Draft

Thu Sep 30, 2004 7:48 am

KiwiNanday, I have forwarded your user information to a contact I have inside the military. If there is a draft you will be the first called. I suggest you volunteer on your 18th birthday to serve your country (which you are apparently too chicken to do) and avoid being drafted.

Captoveur, what an unkind thing to say to an impressionable teenager that is obviously concerned about his well-being. You should be ashamed.

I also agree with MD-90, a draft is slavery by the state.

-Tim

~~~****PEACE****~~~
Dubai: Center of the 21st Century
 
L-188
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RE: Reinstatement Of The Draft

Thu Sep 30, 2004 8:08 am

B2707ST love that cartoon.

And it sums up the present situation.

The democrats are trying to scare young voters by screaming draft and claiming it is a republican idea, completely ignoring the fact it is the members of their own part that started it.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
dl021
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RE: Reinstatement Of The Draft

Thu Sep 30, 2004 11:51 am

Slavery by the state is a rather strong term...look at it as a citizenship requirement. Our society has decided that if you wish to enjoy the benefits of all this freedom you have been handed, you ought to be willing to defend it and provide service. Just like our society requires that you pay taxes to support services rendered and community security. There is nothing that says you have no other options other than to serve if called upon in a draft. You always have the option of moving elsewhere.

Once again, the likelihood of a draft coming down the pike is rather low.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
Northwest717
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RE: Reinstatement Of The Draft

Thu Sep 30, 2004 11:55 am

DI021,

It is not a matter of being drafted, but rather what you are being drafted for. It is rediculous to be drafted into a war for oil. Also, some people like me believe in not killing others.

-Tim

~~~****PEACE****~~~
Dubai: Center of the 21st Century
 
b757300
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RE: Reinstatement Of The Draft

Thu Sep 30, 2004 12:00 pm

A draft isn't slavery by the state. Look at WWII, we were forced to draft people in order to fight for our survival. I doubt many of the men who were drafted then felt as if they were slaves. All of the negatives relating to the draft are thanks to Vietnam.

Selective Service is kept around for one reason and that is in the event of something on the order of WWII happening again.
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
MD-90
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RE: Reinstatement Of The Draft

Thu Sep 30, 2004 12:11 pm

A draft isn't slavery by the state.

You don't have a choice, now do you?



Our society has decided that if you wish to enjoy the benefits of all this freedom you have been handed,

Those freedoms come from God and can only be reduced by government. Government cannot grant freedom, it can only take it away. We had freedom up until 1860, and our "freedom" has been eroding particularly fast since 1930, thanks to the leviathan State.
 
NWADC9
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RE: Reinstatement Of The Draft

Thu Sep 30, 2004 12:17 pm

According to President Bush, he doesn't have any plans on calling in the draft again.
Flying an aeroplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that? -Capt. Picard
 
Northwest717
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RE: Reinstatement Of The Draft

Thu Sep 30, 2004 1:31 pm

It starts to make me wonder, all the top government officials are totally denying any draft rumours, but wouldn't they do that anyways? Would they really say "Oh yea, we are going to draft everybody between ages 18 and 26"? I don't think so. I am wondering if they are waiting for Bush to get back into office (god, I hope he doesn't get back in office) to re-instate it. Just food for thought. As of now I am totally perplexed by the whole idea. I have no idea what to think.

-Tim

~~~****PEACE****~~~
Dubai: Center of the 21st Century
 
Mir
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RE: Reinstatement Of The Draft

Thu Sep 30, 2004 1:47 pm

Dl021, can the government force someone to risk their life? I don't think so. There is the whole "right to life" part
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
FDXmech
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RE: Reinstatement Of The Draft

Thu Sep 30, 2004 1:55 pm

>>>Would they really say "Oh yea, we are going to draft everybody between ages 18 and 26"? I don't think so. I am wondering if they are waiting for Bush to get back into office (god, I hope he doesn't get back in office) to re-instate it. Just food for thought. As of now I am totally perplexed by the whole idea. I have no idea what to think.<<<

Tim, your thoughts are running in circles which is precisely the goal of those who introduce such legislation. It is a politically motivated gambit.

If there is a shortage of manpower in the military for their current mission, it is because the military is only funded for just so many people. Should the military require more people, Congress will have to pony up the funding to raise the manpower level.

Stop worrying for nothing.
You're only as good as your last departure.
 
j_hallgren
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RE: Reinstatement Of The Draft

Thu Sep 30, 2004 5:40 pm

Rangel (DEMOCRAT) wanted to have it so that they would draft people like kids of Republican congress/senator...he feels that it's only the low class that are joining and wants the high class folks to get dragged in...but it's the higher educated folks who the military wants which is not what a draft will result in...

Even the national media (CBS or ABC, not sure which it was) had a report on tonight saying it was the DEMOCRATS who wanted it!
COBOL - Not a dead language yet!
 
Northwest717
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RE: Reinstatement Of The Draft

Thu Sep 30, 2004 9:28 pm

FDXmech,

I'm not worrying about anything. I am mearly over-analyzing the situation. Sometimes I sit down and over analyze a topic, trying to pick it apart piece by piece. I guess it doesn't work for this topic though.

-Tim

~~~****PEACE****~~~
Dubai: Center of the 21st Century

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