QANTASforever
Posts: 5794
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2001 6:03 am

Any Scientologists Here?

Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:26 am

Hey all,

I've been hearing a lot about this religion, and without having to read "Battlefield Earth" could someone explain to me exactly what this religion is?

I'm not a very spiritual person but I've been curious about this religion for quite a while now and would like to know more about it.

QFF
Fighting for the glory of the Australian Republic.
 
caravelle
Posts: 656
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2000 4:33 am

RE: Any Scientologists Here?

Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:34 am

If you're willing to spend loads of money, I suggest bingo or horse racing as the better alternative to attaining wisdom and new levels of spirituality. Or you may twiddle your thumbs. Much cheaper.

Scientology is a hoax.
Believe me, I know.

- caravelle
Trains and boats and planes....
 
Imonti
Posts: 399
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 4:49 am

RE: Any Scientologists Here?

Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:36 am

I have no clue what it is, i do know that Tom Cruise is a member.

Please explain to me what it is.............
 
QANTASforever
Posts: 5794
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2001 6:03 am

RE: Any Scientologists Here?

Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:39 am

Caravelle, I understand there is a Scientology cruise ship and everything - I'm aware of the more bizarre aspects of this "religion" but I'm yet to fully understand what it is.

I have no intention to sign up, I just was inquiring about info.

QFF
Fighting for the glory of the Australian Republic.
 
ybacpa
Posts: 1080
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2001 5:39 am

RE: Any Scientologists Here?

Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:42 am

http://xenu.net/

Its a made-up religion, catering to the same that send money to the likes of Jimmy Steward & the Bakers.

In other words, its a cult.
SkyTeam: The alliance for third rate airlines finally getting their act together!
 
Mr Spaceman
Posts: 2723
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RE: Any Scientologists Here?

Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:57 am

Hello QANTASFOREVER.

One of my Aunts was thinking of becoming a member of the Church of Scientology back in the mid 70's. She was always getting letters in the mail from them. She explained to me one day that the Church of Scientology teaches people how to reach many different levels of a state of mind (if you want to call it that), and that there was a level where a person was considered "CLEAR".

My Aunt told me she learned from the letters that if you were at the "CLEAR" level, you could walk infront of a moving car ....... and it wouldn't hit you! Go figure?

A few famous actors are members of this Church ....... such as John Travolta and Tom Cruise. I saw Tom Cruise on a TV talk show a year ago, and he mentioned that the most important thing Scientology had taught him was how to really enjoy meeting people who were complete strangers. That sounds cool to me.

My parents own a small home down in the USA near Clearwater, Florida, and about a fifteen minute drive from their place through the neighbourhood streets is a large Church (of Scientology - which doesn't even look like a Church), that John Travolta had built....... according to my Dad.

That's about as much as I know about Scientology. Big grin


Chris  Smile
"Just a minute while I re-invent myself"
 
QANTASforever
Posts: 5794
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2001 6:03 am

RE: Any Scientologists Here?

Mon Oct 11, 2004 1:04 am

Thanks Chris,

Your insight is appreciated.

Regards,

QFF
Fighting for the glory of the Australian Republic.
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: Any Scientologists Here?

Mon Oct 11, 2004 1:09 am

In big cities when you get approached to take a free personality test that is the Scienctologist in action....
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
smithfly114
Posts: 236
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 12:00 pm

RE: Any Scientologists Here?

Mon Oct 11, 2004 2:17 am

I am a Christian Scientist, not a Scientologist
.
.
.
People often get them confused, but they are entirely different

.
CCS
 
prosa
Posts: 5389
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2001 3:24 am

RE: Any Scientologists Here?

Mon Oct 11, 2004 2:53 am

In big cities when you get approached to take a free personality test that is the Scienctologist in action....

I did that, just once, almost 30 years ago. It got me onto the Mother of All Mailing Lists. Believe it or not, I got junk mail from the Scientologists until five or six years ago -- in other words, almost a quarter-century after taking the "free" test!
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
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RE: Any Scientologists Here?

Mon Oct 11, 2004 2:57 am

I am a Christian Scientist

You're an oxymoron.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
smithfly114
Posts: 236
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 12:00 pm

RE: Any Scientologists Here?

Mon Oct 11, 2004 4:36 am

Excuse me? Can you tell me anything accurate that you know about the religion?
Didnt think so
Shut up
 
Klaus
Posts: 20595
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RE: Any Scientologists Here?

Mon Oct 11, 2004 5:00 am

It´s a pretty standard cult that preys on people´s insecurities and complexes by extracting huge amounts of money for basically telling them that this money bought them the right to look down on non-cult-members.

Brainwashing and conditioning are a large part of their activities.

They´re obsessed with money and power and get very vicious when people try to escape or even just criticize them. They are openly aiming to dismantle democratic institutions and to install their authoritarian structure instead.

German authorities have classified them as a profit-oriented business and have denied them the status of a religious community.
 
csavel
Posts: 1265
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RE: Any Scientologists Here?

Mon Oct 11, 2004 5:07 am

At the risk of starting a flame war, one man's cult is another man's prophecy. Aren't all religions cults to those outside it, especially when they begin? I mean Christianity was a cult to mainstream Jews of the Roman era. Baha'i was (and still is I think, given that I hear reports of persecution of Baha'is) a dangerous cult in Iran. Lots of more secular Jews think the Hasidim veer into cultish la-la land, lots of Christians say the same about the Mormons (and the funny underwear doesn't help their cause!)

So what is a cult?

I know Scientology is a cult. I don't think Hasidism or Mormonism is, although they both seem outside the mainstream to me, but so does Rastafarianism and I don't think that's a cult - so what is a cult?
I may be ugly. I may be an American. But don't call me an ugly American.
 
prosa
Posts: 5389
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RE: Any Scientologists Here?

Mon Oct 11, 2004 5:18 am

So what is a cult?
I know Scientology is a cult. I don't think Hasidism or Mormonism is, although they both seem outside the mainstream to me, but so does Rastafarianism and I don't think that's a cult - so what is a cult?


One definition I've heard, which sounds as reasonable as any else, is that while a true religion is happy to share its beliefs with anyone who asks, a cult reveals little to those making casual inquiries, disclosing its belief system in bits and pieces only as people become more deeply involved. Quite typically it's claimed that the full belief system is somehow too overwhelming for people to handle unless they've been with the group for some time.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
smithfly114
Posts: 236
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 12:00 pm

RE: Any Scientologists Here?

Mon Oct 11, 2004 5:28 am

That is a very good deff. and by that deff. Christian Science is for sure not a cult
.
.
CCS
 
Klaus
Posts: 20595
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Smithfly114

Mon Oct 11, 2004 5:40 am

Smithfly114: That is a very good deff. and by that deff. Christian Science is for sure not a cult

It should just drop the "science" label (same with "Scientology") unless it was ready to accept the basic rules every science has to follow. Unless that is done, it´s merely a misappropriated label with no substance to back it up, however nice it may feel for its members personally.
 
Blackbird1331
Posts: 1740
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RE: Any Scientologists Here?

Mon Oct 11, 2004 6:14 am

Is there a perfect circle? Then there is a perfect religion. L.Ron Hubbard was out to make money, not to save souls. If you want to save your soul, you must first understand that the perfect religion is you. Just do the right thing. No one can make you do evil things except yourself. "To thy own self be true."
Cameras shoot pictures. Guns shoot people. They have the guns.
 
prosa
Posts: 5389
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RE: Any Scientologists Here?

Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:58 pm

Another characteristic of a cult is that it may have one charismatic leader who claims to be the sole source of doctrine and moral authority. This can be a bit difficult to determine in practice, if for no other reason than many normal religions are distinctly non-democratic and may at times have had an unquestioned leader. Even so, a cult's leader is usually pretty hard to overlook.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Any Scientologists Here?

Mon Oct 11, 2004 1:40 pm

"Its a made-up religion, catering to the same that send money to the likes of Jimmy Steward & the Bakers.

In other words, its a cult."

What religion is NOT a cult? or made up?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
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RE: Any Scientologists Here?

Mon Oct 11, 2004 10:26 pm

I read Battlefield Earth, I don't remember there being anything about religion in it (it was still crap). All organised religion is a money-making scam, so from that point of view, Scientology is probably no worse. I still wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot bargepole though.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
oly720man
Posts: 5743
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RE: Any Scientologists Here?

Mon Oct 11, 2004 11:23 pm

wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
 
ybacpa
Posts: 1080
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2001 5:39 am

RE: Any Scientologists Here?

Mon Oct 11, 2004 11:39 pm

What religion is NOT a cult? or made up?

Any 'religion' that requires you to pay to be a member is a cult.

As for being "made up", you've missed the point... Scientology was specifically created to make money, not to improve the lives of its believers.
SkyTeam: The alliance for third rate airlines finally getting their act together!
 
tbar220
Posts: 6706
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 12:08 pm

RE: Any Scientologists Here?

Tue Oct 12, 2004 12:06 am

Smithfly,

Don't get annoyed or bothered by what 777 says. He makes a living on this forum (wouldn't be surprised if he gets paid for it) by being difficult. That's all his posts ever are.
NO URLS in signature
 
ArmitageShanks
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RE: Any Scientologists Here?

Tue Oct 12, 2004 12:30 am

I think John Travolta is a Scientologist.
 
Klaus
Posts: 20595
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Any Scientologists Here?

Tue Oct 12, 2004 12:42 am

Travolta is indeed one of their figureheads.

I´d define a cult by how they react when you´re trying to get out: If they leave it at "Oh, we´re sorry; Good luck!" it´s probably not a cult; If it´s "No, you won´t; And if you will, we´ll make you regret it!" then it is a cult.

And by that definiton, scientology is one of the nastier cults.
 
MaverickM11
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Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Any Scientologists Here?

Tue Oct 12, 2004 12:57 am

"Any 'religion' that requires you to pay to be a member is a cult."

That would make Christianity and Islam cults, and I wouldn't disagree.

"As for being "made up", you've missed the point... Scientology was specifically created to make money, not to improve the lives of its believers."

What religion was made up to specifically "improve the lives of its believers"? Is there such thing these days?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
ybacpa
Posts: 1080
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2001 5:39 am

RE: Any Scientologists Here?

Tue Oct 12, 2004 5:17 am

"Any 'religion' that requires you to pay to be a member is a cult."

That would make Christianity and Islam cults, and I wouldn't disagree.


Neither do. You are more than welcome to be a Christian or Muslim and attend religious services absolutely free (don't waste anyone's time nitpicking this point- we all know there are fringe groups that exploit the situation for financial gain; I'm referring to the operation of religion as a whole and how it is intended to operate). Both religions you mentioned solicit voluntary contributions to pay for the overhead cost of running a religion (heat, staff salaries, legal payouts to little boys, etc.), but no one is required to contribute. That is the difference between a legitimate religion and a cult.

You can argue dilution of the values of any religion all you want; its a completely different subject, and one which very few people would disagree with you on. If you really want to make a good arguement, you'd choose to argue the historical use of religion (those which are generally considered legitimate today) as means for governments to control their citizens. A weaker, yet still valid arguement would have been the usage of the funding legitimate religion receives.
SkyTeam: The alliance for third rate airlines finally getting their act together!
 
tristarenvy
Posts: 2235
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2004 2:07 am

RE: Any Scientologists Here?

Tue Oct 12, 2004 5:39 am

Come visit scenic Clearwater FL, and watch the "Scieno's" at work!
If you don't stand for SOMETHING, you'll fall for ANYTHING.
 
BN747
Posts: 5344
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

RE: Any Scientologists Here?

Tue Oct 12, 2004 1:27 pm

Hollywood Blvd is littered with the Scientology Hq., buildings and the drones sworn to devotion. You can tell the 'low-level' members are most desperate denizens of society. They appear to be proud to 'belong' to something that insist they don a light blue shirt and dark trousers and do all the 'footwork/grunt' work...whatever they are doing (it seems they are recruiting more down&out(ers) along Hollywood Blvd. I stopped to talk with one out of sheer curiosity... but he was quick to pick up my skepticism about religion in general and was completely turned off and scuttled away. I read a piece in the LA Times about some woman who was hounded and threatened by them because she 'defected' and tried to get her mother out... and their response was everything Klaus wrote about them above....

It´s a pretty standard cult that preys on people´s insecurities and complexes by extracting huge amounts of money for basically telling them that this money bought them the right to look down on non-cult-members.

Brainwashing and conditioning are a large part of their activities.

They´re obsessed with money and power and get very vicious when people try to escape or even just criticize them. They are openly aiming to dismantle democratic institutions and to install their authoritarian structure instead.

German authorities have classified them as a profit-oriented business and have denied them the status of a religious community.


I too wonder... how the hell does the US gov allows this kind of crap to persist.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
jessman
Posts: 1457
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 1:11 pm

RE: Any Scientologists Here?

Tue Oct 12, 2004 1:58 pm

I too wonder... how the hell does the US gov allows this kind of crap to persist.

The First Amendment to the Constitution
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

If the US chooses to not consider it a religion, then they are still entitled to free speech and freedom of assembly.

I am a Christian. I am also a physics major. I believe God is real and that the laws of physics exist because that is how God designed the universe. It's still fun to figure out how things work. I choose to think of God as a designer and creator. When I was a little kid I used to love to take things apart and try to find out how they worked. Things like the coffee pot, The VCR, The dryer. I got yelled at a lot. Now that I am older I want to find out how things work. Things like gravity, electricity, magnetism. There are mathematical equations to describe their behaviour but it is still not entirely settled as to HOW these things work.

Maybe I'll just become and engineer and make things for other little kids to take apart.

There are things that have happened to people around me that have no current scientific explanation. One of the people at my church was miraculously healed of an inoperable brain tumor. Another healed of a blood disease. A small town preacher that I know survived for over an hour with no blood in his body because had acidentally been shot in the femoral artery by a hunter. These things are not easily explained away by logic or contemporary science or wisdom. I take them as signs of God.

What if God showed himself to you? Not a dream, not a hallucination, but really God showed up and made himself known to you. Then you would know that God exists. What of Science then?
God became flesh in the form of Jesus Christ. He made himself known to regular people. He showed that he was in control of physics, and biology. He was crucified, died, was buried, and rose again. He lives. I enter a personal relationship with him in the form of Christianity. Christianity is not a book, a church, a rule but it is a personal relationship with a living savior, Jesus Christ. That is what I believe in.
 
BN747
Posts: 5344
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

RE: Any Scientologists Here?

Tue Oct 12, 2004 2:37 pm

Jessman,

God and science doesn't mix. Many like yourself attempt feverishly to join them but they are completely antithetical to one another.

Fine, you believe. Good for you. God/Jesus/Allah/Mohammed/Yoweh has about as much creedence in my book as the the Tooth Fairy.

...the laws of physics exist..

They exist because they are an act of nature. Nature is 'the course of action' of the universe. It goes about it's course no matter what. We have been privy to figuring out a minute fraction of what makes nature tick...but we've just scratched the surface. Our own galactic-sized arrogance, makes us think it's all about 'us'. And that someone out there made all this for 'us' and really cares about what happens and does not happen to 'us'..

Reality check... NO one's home. There is no there there..no home either.

I read your mini-sermon in your profile.. it's nice and I was at that point once in my life, ministers actually had me believing I was 'understanding and speaking in tongues once'... but I grew out it. Hopefully many others will too.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
johnboy
Posts: 2557
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 9:09 pm

RE: Any Scientologists Here?

Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:29 am

That online link to the Wikipedia article on Scientology gave a good background but little insight into the "religion." Probably because the Scientologists have copyrighted their "religious" beliefs and it's now illegal to publish them in the open without Scientology permission. Now what real religion would keep things under such tight wraps?

The http://www.xenu.net link is much better, and lets you know how wacky these people are. Basically, after thousands of $$, you are let in on the secret that Xenu was an alien ruler that nuked a bunch of people, trapped them in a volcano...oh it's just so out there that you have to read it for yourself.

But the jist is that they want you to pay money for all these courses that will make you "clear." Initially you're told that it's fine to go to your regular church, and take courses on the side, but eventually all this other stuff will keep you from becoming "clear." Plus, you are expected to "disconnect" with people in your life that are keeping you from reaching "clear," be that family, friends, etc.

They really are a bad bunch of people. Check out especially the message boards on the above links to see how they've harrassed people emotionally and legally until they quit talking negatively about Scientology.

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