airplay
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UN Needs To Address Voting Irregularities

Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:08 am

It is common practice for world organisations such as the UN to assign oversight personnel to countries that are in the midst of elections when instability or other factors have potential to induce voting irregularities.

The US and world media is bringing a great deal of information to light that suggests unfair and unconstitutional practices such as offering bribes for votes, suspect or questionable political ads, irregularities in voting hardward and software, and questionable "everyone has the right to vote" policy that has not yet been determined to be legitimate.

I propose that the UN form a special group of international diplomats and dispatch them to various potential trouble spots, particularly at population centers in the "close race" states to oversee and audit the election process.

This not only will lend a great deal of legitimacy to the entire process, but will ease fears of coruption and incompetance in the voting process.

Would the US ever agree to this? Not on your life. They feel they are above this sort of thing and would consider it interference.....
 
garnetpalmetto
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RE: UN Needs To Address Voting Irregularities

Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:11 am

Here's the thing, Airplay. One of the cornerstone foundations of the UN is the notion of national sovereignty. Unless a potential nation-state is a UN protectorate, as East Timor, Namibia, etc. once were, or unless a nation-state invites UN observers in, then the UN can do precisely nothing unless the Security Council passes a resolution.
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
 
N6376M
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RE: UN Needs To Address Voting Irregularities

Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:20 am

The fundamental issue at the 2000 presidential election problems was the incompetence of the West Palm Beach Supervisor of Elections Theresa LePore (a democrat). She designed a ballot that was in retrospect too complicated for democratic voters. Had she done her job with a reasonable degree of competence, Pat Buchanan would not have gained something like 4900 votes.

If you think that UN inspectors / observers are what are need to fix this, you're crazy. Instead, the process worked, she lost her bid for re-election in Sept of this year.

As an interesting footnote, her opponent was named Arthur Andersen (how about that for irony?)

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0901-01.htm
 
b757300
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RE: UN Needs To Address Voting Irregularities

Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:55 am

How about they probe the reports of massive Democrat voter fraud like numerous Democrat counties registering more people than actually live in the county.

Actually, the U.N. and the rest of the anti-U.S. foreigners need to just stay the heck out of our business. The U.N. isn’t exactly known for being a respectable organization (Oil for Food) nor do they have a good track record when it comes to elections (Venezuela).
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
L-188
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RE: UN Needs To Address Voting Irregularities

Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:44 am

The US is meeting it's requirements under international treaty.

Other then that the UN should not be influencing US elections, or who gets elected.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
jasepl
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RE: UN Needs To Address Voting Irregularities

Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:47 am

Oh crap! I thought this post was going to be about Afghanistan! Funny though that hasn't come up yet...
 
JeffM
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RE: UN Needs To Address Voting Irregularities

Wed Oct 13, 2004 6:06 am

If we allow the U.N. to get involved with our election, we won't have results until sometime in July.













July '06...!

Keep them the hell out.
 
Klaus
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JeffM

Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:21 am

Ignorance is bliss, apparently...  Insane

UN monitors normally don´t get "involved", they merely observe the election.

And a little additional oversight wouldn´t exactly hurt, don´t you think?  Wink/being sarcastic

I don´t have a problem with observers looking into our own elections as well.
 
JeffM
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RE: UN Needs To Address Voting Irregularities

Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:04 am

"I don´t have a problem with observers looking into our own elections as well."

Good, then you can keep them. And don't kid yourself Klaus, "observation" would only be the beginning. If they were to question something, the whole process would grind to a halt.

"And a little additional oversight wouldn´t exactly hurt, don´t you think?"

No, I really don't. We have a document called the Constitution. It works remarkably well.

And I am pleased to hear about your "bliss".  Smile
 
whitehatter
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RE: UN Needs To Address Voting Irregularities

Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:47 am

Airplay

What you propose goes straight over the heads of a lot of posters here as they don't recognise such principles as transparency and qualification.

Having outside monitoring can be immensely useful in what I would call the Court of World Opinion. There is a faction in the US which would reply "well fuck the world and its opinion cos we got nooks and troops"; but the other side might appreciate the principle if properly explained.

If you want to promote democracy or even remove a tyrant, it strengthens your hand immensely if the leader of the nation doing the promoting/removing can say:

"Well we are as near perfect a democracy as we can be, and here's the independently verified proof".

That gives legitimacy, strength and qualification to the actions or words of that nation. Someone who is open, transparent and honest about their own house can then legitimately comment on the houses of others.

So the answer to your proposal should be "yes, why not? We have nothing to hide and it strengthens our standing in the world by doing so". No matter what the nation.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
Klaus
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JeffM

Wed Oct 13, 2004 9:14 am

JeffM: Good, then you can keep them. And don't kid yourself Klaus, "observation" would only be the beginning. If they were to question something, the whole process would grind to a halt.

Do you have any evidence to show for your paranoia? Didn´t think so.


JeffM: No, I really don't. We have a document called the Constitution. It works remarkably well.

As 2000 has demonstrated, it only works when its principles are actually applied. If they are ignored or distorted, it is worthless.


JeffM: And I am pleased to hear about your "bliss".

Is it me or is it you who´s constantly fleeing from imaginary black helicopters?  Insane
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: UN Needs To Address Voting Irregularities

Wed Oct 13, 2004 9:30 am

Is it me or is it you who´s constantly fleeing from imaginary black helicopters?

Who told you about our helicopters?!?  Big grin
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
JeffM
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RE: UN Needs To Address Voting Irregularities

Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:01 am

"Do you have any evidence to show for your paranoia? "

Show me something they have ever accomplished on time.

Go ahead, we will wait.  Big grin
 
airplay
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RE: UN Needs To Address Voting Irregularities

Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:21 am

Show me something they have ever accomplished on time.

Yah! Like when GWB declared the end of hostilities in Iraq. Oh wait...that's not a good example.

How about the mission in Afghanistan? No wait. Thats no good. How about Vietnam? No wait...you guys left before that was done.

Desert Storm? Korea? Shoot. I can't think of one. Can anyone help me out here?
 
kellmark
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RE: UN Needs To Address Voting Irregularities

Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:22 am

The constitution DID work in 2000. The court stopped the madness of recounting (3 times) only selected Democratic counties where Democrats controlled the process. They wanted to keep recounting until they got the "right" answer, even though they hadn't been able to get it the first few times.
 
kellmark
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RE: UN Needs To Address Voting Irregularities

Wed Oct 13, 2004 11:22 am

Airplay.
Did you miss something? Afghanistan just had elections for the first time in its history. That was a tremendous success.

Iraq will have elections in January in spite of all the naysayers.

Korea? I would say it beats having the whole peninsula controlled by that benevolent Kim Jong Il. So many are fighting to get into that "paradise".

Vietnam? It was a valiant effort. I am not ashamed of it at all.

It sure beats the Candian contribition to world affairs recently. Oh yes, they wanted to put up a monument to draft dodgers. I forgot.
 
airplay
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RE: UN Needs To Address Voting Irregularities

Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:50 pm

It sure beats the Candian contribution to world affairs recently. Oh yes, they wanted to put up a monument to draft dodgers. I forgot.

That monument was an effort of private citizens not of the Canadian Government. I really have no opinion other to say that we are free to do what we want in this country within the bounds of the law. And paying homage to conscientious objectors is much more valiant than voting draft “avoiders” like Cheney and Bush to office. So what is worse? Leaving the country because you have no option or getting your rich daddy to pull some strings? “It ain’t me…I’m no fortunate one.”

Canada's contribution in world affairs is centered around non-interference. We tend to not create situations that put our safety and national security at risk for the sake of exploitation and financial gain.

Afghanistan and Iraq? Are you trying to tell me that the issues are being resolved "on time"? And that the elections are truly democratic? Aren't there some parties that are outlawed? How can you call these democratic elections when you place limitations on the populace?

Korea is an example of a situation where US involvement not only missed the timetable, but deteriorated to the point where the entire effort was a waste of time as the countries were abruptly vacated. Ditto for Vietnam. And even for Iraq in Desert Storm.

Now back to the topic. I notice that an anti-Kerry group wishes to broadcast a made for TV movie that discredits Kerry. The backers say it is a sincere movie that exposes a fatal character flaw in Kerry. Another example of a corrupt system if you ask me. Almost anyone can seemingly run around claiming what they want about candidates with vitally no fear of reprisal. How can that be?

I watched an interview on “FOX” (Yah…I don’t know why I bother watching….but its like watching a car accident) where the movie’s prime backer tried to disassociate the movie from the real purpose claiming the timing was coincidental. Perhaps a fair compromise would be to broadcast it back to back with Fahrenheit 911.
 
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yyz717
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RE: UN Needs To Address Voting Irregularities

Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:02 pm

The US is one of the world's leading democracies. Voting irregularities are a non-issue in the US. What is the TRUE purpose of this thread? Another jab at the US for the sake of it?

Airplay, if you are so concerned about democracy and voting irregularities, why did you not start a thread about the voting irregularities in your own native Manitoba that crop up every provincial election? That is MUCH closer to home.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
airplay
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RE: UN Needs To Address Voting Irregularities

Wed Oct 13, 2004 11:33 pm

What is the TRUE purpose of this thread?

Actually I started this thread to give you another chance to be irrelevant YYZ717. Thanks for not disappointing me.
 
FDXmech
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RE: UN Needs To Address Voting Irregularities

Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:00 am

Old news. The OSCE (The Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe) will monitor the 2004 Presidential Election.

International team to monitor presidential election
Observers will be part of OSCE's human rights office
From David de Sola
CNN
Monday, August 9, 2004 Posted: 9:08 AM EDT (1308 GMT)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A team of international observers will monitor the presidential election in November, according to the U.S. State Department.

The Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe was invited to monitor the election by the State Department. The observers will come from the OSCE's Office for Democratic Institutions and Human Rights.

It will be the first time such a team has been present for a U.S. presidential election.

"The U.S. is obliged to invite us, as all OSCE countries should," spokeswoman Urdur Gunnarsdottir said. "It's not legally binding, but it's a political commitment. They signed a document 10 years ago to ask OSCE to observe elections."

Thirteen Democratic members of the House of Representatives, raising the specter of possible civil rights violations that they said took place in Florida and elsewhere in the 2000 election, wrote to U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan in July, asking him to send observers.

After Annan rejected their request, saying the administration must make the application, the Democrats asked Secretary of State Colin Powell to do so.

The issue was hotly debated in the House, and Republicans got an amendment to a foreign aid bill that barred federal funds from being used for the United Nations to monitor U.S. elections, The Associated Press reported.

In a letter dated July 30 and released last week, Assistant Secretary of State Paul Kelly told the Democrats about the invitation to OSCE, without mentioning the U.N. issue.

"I am pleased that Secretary Powell is as committed as I am to a fair and democratic process," said Democratic Rep. Eddie Bernice Johnson of Texas, who spearheaded the effort to get U.N. observers.

"The presence of monitors will assure Americans that America cares about their votes and it cares about its standing in the world," she said in a news release.

Democratic Rep. Barbara Lee of California agreed.

"This represents a step in the right direction toward ensuring that this year's elections are fair and transparent," she said.

"I am pleased that the State Department responded by acting on this need for international monitors. We sincerely hope that the presence of the monitors will make certain that every person's voice is heard, every person's vote is counted."

OSCE, the world's largest regional security organization, will send a preliminary mission to Washington in September to assess the size, scope, logistics and cost of the mission, Gunnarsdottir said.

The organization, which counts among its missions conflict prevention and postconflict rehabilitation, will then determine how many observers are required and where in the United States they will be sent.

"OSCE-participating [nations] agreed in 1990 to observe elections in one another's countries. The OSCE routinely monitors elections within its 55-state membership, including Europe, Eurasia, Canada and the United States," a State Department spokesman said.

The spokesman said the United States does not have any details on the size and composition of the observers or what countries will provide them.

OSCE, based in Vienna, Austria, has sent more than 10,000 personnel to monitor more than 150 elections and referenda in more than 30 countries during the past decade, Gunnarsdottir said.

In November 2002, OSCE sent 10 observers on a weeklong mission to monitor the U.S. midterm elections. OSCE also sent observers to monitor the California gubernatorial recall election last year.

More recently, OSCE monitored the elections in Northern Ireland in November and in Spain in March.
You're only as good as your last departure.
 
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yyz717
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RE: UN Needs To Address Voting Irregularities

Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:45 am

Thanks for not disappointing me.

I had a feeling this was just another pot shot at the US, for the sake of it.

Anyone the least bit truly concerned about democracy and voting irregularities would not be concerned with democracy in the US, but instead would be focused on the vast semi-democracies and dictatorships in the 3rd world.

To commit UN resources to monitor elections in the US would truly be the ultimate waste of UN money. No serious student of the UN would ever make such a ludicrous suggestion, unless they were a rampant anti-American or hard left zealot.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
airplay
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RE: UN Needs To Address Voting Irregularities

Thu Oct 14, 2004 11:25 am

To commit UN resources to monitor elections in the US would truly be the ultimate waste of UN money. No serious student of the UN would ever make such a ludicrous suggestion, unless they were a rampant anti-American or hard left zealot.

I guess everyone has an opinion....some are constructive and others are just thinly veiled insults attempting to label the messenger rather than address the issue.

This sort of statement is just unbelievable. Unless it were to come from an ultra-conservative fascist….
 
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yyz717
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RE: UN Needs To Address Voting Irregularities

Fri Oct 15, 2004 1:19 am

I guess everyone has an opinion....some are constructive

An opinion proposing election monitoring of the US by the UN is not contructive; it's simply anti-American nonsense. The US is one of the world's leading democracies with perhaps the fewest voting irregularities of ANY country.

Like I said, if you were truly the least bit interested in voting irregularities, they are MANY 3rd world countries where you can focus your efforts.

However, if your goal is US-bashing, then you are bound to propose UN monitoring of US elections.





I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
CPH-R
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RE: UN Needs To Address Voting Irregularities

Fri Oct 15, 2004 1:21 am

I read about a Danish politician who will be going to Florida to monitor the elections with some NGO's. Apparently, a large number of groups are going to be present in order to ensure that voters are able to.. well.. vote.

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