United4everDEN
Posts: 737
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 12:36 pm

Black Rights Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 14, 2004 11:06 am

First off, let me say, I am NOT racist nor do I have anything against blacks, but...

Today I took the PSAT, it qualifies you for scholarships and such. One thing though when we were filling out the info part of the test (name, date of birth, etc.) It said;

"If you are a black American, you are eligible for entry into the Merit Achievement Scholarship in addition to the Merit Academic Scholarship, which is open to all students. Please check below if you wish to participate."

Now tell me if I am wrong, but isn't that the same as saying to me, 'Eh, sorry, you were born white, so we are going to put you at a disadvantage because of that.'

Why should someone, just because of their skin color, have a chance that no one else has to become successful? I am truly thinking about taking this matter to the school admin and follow through as far as I have to go to get this changed.

Please don't bash me for my views, and the views of two other teachers I have backing me for this.
 
emiratesa345
Posts: 2043
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2003 10:11 am

RE: Black Rights Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 14, 2004 11:13 am

You have my support.

Mark
You and I were meant to fly, Air Canada!
 
dmeeky243
Posts: 200
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2004 3:48 pm

RE: Black Rights Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 14, 2004 11:14 am

Look around, you can get a scholarship for having an Irish heritage or being left-handed.
"I have a favorite dish, which tends to change daily depending on my mood, or whether I have a hangover, or whether it's
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: Black Rights Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 14, 2004 11:28 am

"Now tell me if I am wrong, but isn't that the same as saying to me, 'Eh, sorry, you were born white, so we are going to put you at a disadvantage because of that.' "

Actually its more like saying that you're born Asian and your scores are really high, so lets set quotas for your type. As recently as 1994, schools like Stanford and Princeton rejected Asian students with really high scores for black/hispanic kids with lower scores and white kids who could play sports.

So, if anyone should be complaining, its Mrs Chen and Mr Swaminathan. Yet, they don't and their kids do just fine in college.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15261
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Black Rights Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:43 pm

"Why should someone, just because of their skin color, have a chance that no one else has to become successful? "

AMEN.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Black Rights Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:47 pm

First off, let me say, I am NOT racist nor do I have anything against blacks, but...

When I hear ANYONE say that, I pretty much assume that they are.

Work Right, Fly Hard
 
BFS
Posts: 699
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2001 2:33 am

RE: Black Rights Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:53 pm

Falcon84,
It's too easy to say that. I used to agree with you but get a grip: if you are talking objectively about such a controversial topic such as race, sexuality, gender, religion, it's not a bad idea to set out from the beginning that you in no way discrimiate or judge blah blah blah, or else the automatic conclusion is that: This racist jerk wants to revoke scholarships for (insert 'deprived' group here).

It is a dangerous thing to assume anybody's stance on such subjects without knowing them, or at least hearing them state they oppose something which they cannot justify.

P.s. No offence Falcon84. This is not specifically aimed at you bud, its just one of those things that seem quite fashionable to say nowadays. It is ignorance and it bugs me immensely.
 
SSTjumbo
Posts: 2579
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 3:29 am

RE: Black Rights Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 14, 2004 1:01 pm

Look around, you can get a scholarship for having an Irish heritage or being left-handed.


Hmm, I'm both and no one came to me offering me money.  Confused
I don't know, so this is my signature.
 
airbus3801
Posts: 1047
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 12:49 pm

RE: Black Rights Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 14, 2004 1:06 pm

That check box is not keeping you from becoming a merit-scholar, my brother took the PSAT today too and he mentioned that but didn't have any problem with it. Apparently it appears to me that you are keeping too closed of a mind towards what the box is acutally saying. A new study just came out showing that many kids don't apply for college aid even thought they qualify and do not go through with it even though they would probably be accepted. This is just trying to show african americans that they are not being left out in the scholarship program. After all, as a post said above, a study came out showing that African-americans do not do as well on these tests. You are taking this the wrong way. You don't need to bring this into a Supreme Court Case over whether the statement is right, that isn't need...."

If you are so into getting a scholarship, a statement on the PSAT isn't going to change your chances, sulking in the non-av forum isn't going to get you anywhere, applying will....
That is just my two cents

[Edited 2004-10-14
06:09:08]

[Edited 2004-10-14 06:12:16]

[Edited 2004-10-14 06:14:56]
 
fspilot747
Posts: 3455
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 1999 2:58 am

RE: Black Rights Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 14, 2004 1:18 pm

If you really have a problem with it, check the "black" box, and when they find out and withhold the money, take them to court for discrimination.


FSP
 
airbus3801
Posts: 1047
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 12:49 pm

RE: Black Rights Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 14, 2004 1:24 pm

If you really have a problem with it, check the "black" box, and when they find out and withhold the money, take them to court for discrimination.

You couldn't even get that to a court because you were lying in the first place, how is that showing that you are a person worthy a discount in college, the answer is it isn't....
 
Dash8King
Posts: 2657
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2001 8:45 am

RE: Black Rights Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 14, 2004 2:30 pm

In Canada Aboriginal people get free schooling, so no I don't think it has gone to far yet, not until all black people get free university and such.
 
BN747
Posts: 5344
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

RE: Black Rights Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 14, 2004 2:50 pm

In Canada Aboriginal people get free schooling, so no I don't think it has gone to far yet, not until all black people get free university and such.

Are you kidding???

No.. I believe you Dash, and I agree with what you've said.. if you think UA4EverDEN is pitching a bitch now... him and 3/4s of this board (and the Bush half of America) would go nuts crying foul!

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
DeltaGuy
Posts: 3965
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 5:25 am

RE: Black Rights Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 14, 2004 3:15 pm

Actually, the man makes a very good point. When I was going for all my scholarships, there were so many for blacks and all sorts of other ethnic groups/backgrounds..some were really obscure!

Now, why can't I, as a regular, American born white male, be entitled to a scolarship because I'm white? I think the NAACP would slap that down because it'd be 'racist'...but they can go ahead and have their little scholarships. You know, it boils down to the same reason why there isn't a "National White Pride Month" (The blacks have their own month), and why there isn't "White Entertainment Television" (the blacks have their own station too)......basically, it's a complete double standard. I can't take pride in the fact that I'm white, because I'd be labeled a KKK memeber..but the blacks can sure party their race up!

There's my .02..please, feel free to flame away, all you fellow white people.

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
LHMark
Posts: 7048
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 2:18 am

RE: Black Rights Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 14, 2004 3:27 pm

Falcon84, you TOTALLY beat me to it. Hey, white guys (me included), think about all the inherent advantages you have before kicking in the one that minorities get.
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
seb146
Posts: 13917
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: Black Rights Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 14, 2004 3:33 pm

And another thing:

I am a native born citizen of the United States and second generation. I have paid my taxes and work for a living. I get very little from the government.

However, there are groups that are also native born in this country that get stuff handed to them on a sliver platter.

Go figure.

GO CANUCKS!!
Patriotic and Proud Liberal
 
LHMark
Posts: 7048
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 2:18 am

RE: Black Rights Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 14, 2004 3:46 pm

Yo, Seb, drive through the ghetto some time and try to take a picture of one of those silver platters. I'd love to see it.
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
UAXDXer
Posts: 700
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2004 3:36 pm

RE: Black Rights Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 14, 2004 4:03 pm

LHMark, since when is the "ghetto" exclusive to people of color? Oh wait, the "white ghetto" is called a "Trailer Park"?!?!
It takes a bug to hit a windsheild but it takes guts to stick
 
BN747
Posts: 5344
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

RE: Black Rights Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 14, 2004 4:27 pm

Now, why can't I, as a regular, American born white male, be entitled to a scolarship because I'm white? I think the NAACP would slap that down because it'd be 'racist'...but they can go ahead and have their little scholarships. You know, it boils down to the same reason why there isn't a "National White Pride Month" (The blacks have their own month), and why there isn't "White Entertainment Television" (the blacks have their own station too)......basically, it's a complete double standard. I can't take pride in the fact that I'm white, because I'd be labeled a KKK memeber..but the blacks can sure party their race up!

Now here's someone who might as wellbe a denizen of the slums of Papua New Guinea...absolutely 'beyond the shadow of a doubt' 100% ignorant of American History...spoken in his own words.

Whenever I see an American Indian.. I blank out all thoughts of the moment and pause... and ask myself 'my god...how do they do it?'

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
nosedive
Posts: 2176
Joined: Sun May 23, 2004 2:18 pm

Affirmative Action Disadvantages

Thu Oct 14, 2004 6:14 pm

Ryan, I believe that hard work will carry you further than handouts. Besides, you can get scholarships for many things (many for being your average white, black, Asian, Arabic, Indian, male, female, liberal, conservative, gay, strait, etc etc etc etc Joe Schmoe). So what if the PSAT advertises one scholarship over another?

Why should someone, just because of their skin color, have a chance that no one else has to become successful?
Look, there are many ways to be "successful", but I doubt contempt jealousy is one of them. Look at this way; there are ways to be successful, regardless of skin color (or education for that matter). Bill Lear dropped out of High School and I think you know how the story goes from there. Henry Ford never had a "formal" education. The bottom line: don't get so wrapped up in all this equality bullshit that you forget to look for opportunities (like free college  Big grin).
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Black Rights Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 14, 2004 6:21 pm

OK so say for a moment that one agrees with this type of "positive" discrimination (and discrimination is what it is, no matter what kind of spin you put on it) - what is the statute of limitations on favouring a formerly disadvantaged minority after the period of disadvantagement (is that a word ?) is over ? 50 years ? 100 years ? There has to come a wonderful shining moment when the African American population in its entirety says to itself "Hey, look at us, we're doing OK - we don't need special programs any more. Lets give them to the Pacific Islanders instead ". Right ? Or is this just for ever and ever, I'm a minority, gimme gimme gimme ?

I'm all for social inclusion and equality of opportunity and treatment - but it has to be equal, otherwise where's the incentive ?
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
UAXDXer
Posts: 700
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2004 3:36 pm

RE: Black Rights Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 14, 2004 6:36 pm

Nosedive, well said! Life isn't fair, never has been never will be. If someone wants something bad enought, they'll figure out a way to get it regardless of race, sex, ect........
It takes a bug to hit a windsheild but it takes guts to stick
 
seb146
Posts: 13917
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: Black Rights Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 14, 2004 7:14 pm

LHMark:

That is what I am talking about. I grew up near an Indian Reservation. The largest group of homes looked like a ghetto. More than their fair share were alcoholics and never really did much with their life. *They* are choosing that. Some of them are trying to get something more than that for the whole tribe, which is noble. I am not against any notion that the were here first and the way the Europeans of the past took the land by force.

But, this is 2004. If things were so great in 1547, then by all means, they have every right to live that way. But, now, they can have education, health care and money, all from the government that stole from them. More that I am getting from the government that I was born into in the same year! What happened to equal rights?

GO CANUCKS!!
Patriotic and Proud Liberal
 
KROC
Posts: 18919
Joined: Mon May 08, 2000 11:19 am

RE: Black Rights Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 14, 2004 7:36 pm

LHMark, since when is the "ghetto" exclusive to people of color? Oh wait, the "white ghetto" is called a "Trailer Park"?!?!

Funny, I didn't see LHMark say anything about the ghetto being "exclusive to people of color". I saw Mark listing one example. And before you go listing blacks or people that live in the ghetto as lazy, no job having slobs, you might want to open your eyes to the real world and see that for every skank sucking up welfare by popping out kids left and right, there are tons of hard working good people struggling every day to make ends meet. People that would rather keep 2 and 3 jobs rather than get welfare.

On to the topic, as already mentioned, if you have to preclude your statement with a disclaimer stating you are not a racist...you probably are. If in 2004 you still cannot figure out why Scholarships for blacks and such exist, maybe you can borrow ScottysAir's time machine and go back to the 1950's...cause thats where you belong. As previously mentioned a person can get a scholarship for just about anything. Oh, and for "Where's my White Pride Month" guy...I had no idea that us whites have been so oppressed for several hundreds of years, discriminated against, beaten and abused cause of the color of our skin that we need a month to get out our culture, our "message", etc. Give me a break. Take a look around "Crybaby White Guy"...your "white celebrations" are everywhere.

Oh, and its funny because I never seem to hear of a black guy complaining that he can't qualify for the Irish-American or the Italian-American or the Chinese-American Scholarships.
 
garnetpalmetto
Posts: 5351
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 1:38 am

RE: Black Rights Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm

KROC - awesome post.

As for the NASP, way back when I was in this position, lo those six years ago, I was torn as to whether or not to fill in that bubble, considering I was, indeed, elligible for it. I decided not to based on the fact that I want my achievments to be associated with the fact that I'm an able individual, not that I happen to have been born biracial. Do I oppose the NASP? Not at all.

First of all, I believe you're overblowing the whole "chance that no one else has to become successful" angle. NASP, like the National Merit Scholarship Program, get awarded a single payment $2,500 scholarship. $2,500 is almost nothing when it comes to college costs these days. Mind you, I went to a fairly low-cost public school and it took 3 different scholarship sources and a part-time job to stay afloat.

Secondly, in terms of demographics, there are a lot more Caucasian students who take the PSAT than Black students. In 2002-2003, for instance, of roughly 1.3 million test-takers, only about 108,000 were Black. In choosing National Merit Scholars, then, there's a statistical bias towards Caucasian students. Having the National Achievement Scholarship Program and the National Hispanic Recognition Program (where there are even fewer numbers of Hispanics taking the test. Around 83,000 in '02-'03) levels out that playing field by lessening the chances of equally capable minority students fallING victim to that statistical bias.
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
 
prosa
Posts: 5389
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2001 3:24 am

RE: Black Rights Going Too Far?

Thu Oct 14, 2004 11:49 pm

If you really have a problem with it, check the "black" box, and when they find out and withhold the money, take them to court for discrimination.

If anyone asked, you could say that you once heard a rumor at a family gathering that you had a great-great-great grandfather who was somewhat swarthy-looking. That would make you legally black in the United States even if you are of completely Caucasian appearance.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15261
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Black Rights Going Too Far?

Fri Oct 15, 2004 1:26 am

"If you really have a problem with it, check the "black" box, and when they find out and withhold the money, take them to court for discrimination."

I don't think "they" are even allowed to ask whether you are black or not. It's similar to asking someone with a handicap sticker on their car whether they're actually handicapped or not. I'm pretty sure you can just say you fit the description and they have to swallow it.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: Black Rights Going Too Far?

Fri Oct 15, 2004 1:42 am

When I hear ANYONE say that, I pretty much assume that they are.

I second this..........And to an extent the same with "I'm not gay, but......"
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15261
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Black Rights Going Too Far?

Fri Oct 15, 2004 1:45 am

Oh, and its funny because I never seem to hear of a black guy complaining that he can't qualify for the Irish-American or the Italian-American "

Never in my life have I heard of such a thing....it's possible that it exists but I doubt it.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15261
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Black Rights Going Too Far?

Fri Oct 15, 2004 1:48 am

"When I hear ANYONE say that, I pretty much assume that they are.

I second this..........And to an extent the same with "I'm not gay, but......"
"

That's not judgmental at all  Yeah sure
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15261
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Black Rights Going Too Far?

Fri Oct 15, 2004 2:03 am

Speaking of minorities....is there a Latino/a equivalent of Jackson/Sharpton?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
prosa
Posts: 5389
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2001 3:24 am

RE: Black Rights Going Too Far?

Fri Oct 15, 2004 2:14 am

Oh, and for "Where's my White Pride Month" guy...I had no idea that us whites have been so oppressed for several hundreds of years, discriminated against, beaten and abused cause of the color of our skin that we need a month to get out our culture, our "message", etc. Give me a break. Take a look around "Crybaby White Guy"...your "white celebrations" are everywhere.

Are you saying that it's wrong to take pride in any sort of group affiliation unless that group has suffered oppression? That would mean, just as an example, that it would be wrong to be proud to be a member of a college fraternity; after all, fraternities have not been subjected to much if any purposeful discrimination, only specially selected people are allowed to join, and membership may provide certain benefits such as through networking.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
pacificjourney
Posts: 2659
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2001 9:12 pm

RE: Black Rights Going Too Far?

Fri Oct 15, 2004 2:23 am

For all you sad white boys getting huffy about people making it to universities and jobs because of the colour of their skin I have 2 words .... legacy admissions !

The biggest peice of discriminatory affirmative action bullshit going and guess what, you ain't complaining about that. Oh the shock !

And shall we talk about people getting employment and education preferences because of previous military or other service. Just how is that 'fair'.
" Help, help ... I'm being oppressed ... "
 
KROC
Posts: 18919
Joined: Mon May 08, 2000 11:19 am

RE: Black Rights Going Too Far?

Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:04 am

Are you saying that it's wrong to take pride in any sort of group affiliation unless that group has suffered oppression? That would mean, just as an example, that it would be wrong to be proud to be a member of a college fraternity; after all, fraternities have not been subjected to much if any purposeful discrimination, only specially selected people are allowed to join, and membership may provide certain benefits such as through networking.

Where did I say that? You can be proud of who you are no doubt. I'm former Air Force...I've extremely proud of that, and I did not need to be discriminated against by say teh Army to earn that pride. What I am saying is simply this. In our society today, with a white majority, where whites for the most part do not have to worry about NOT getting a job based on the color of their skin, where "white" culture is predominent over evrything else, we do not need something like "White Pride Moth", or "Racist Guy Hates Blacks Getting Attention So We Are Having White History Month" etc. In school kids don't exactly learn much if anything about black history. Thats hy something like Black History Month is important. There is nothing wrong with being proud of who you are, or your background, but thinking your background makes you better than someone else is absurd.....and thats a problem our society still faces.
 
NWA
Posts: 1162
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2001 2:31 am

RE: Black Rights Going Too Far?

Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:28 am

What amazes me is that blacks would not have this problem if they just didn't check that box...it is optional. A black male that was born may 14th, 1985 has the same oppertunities that I do. As for schooling, I'd say more. Innercity schhols get MUCH MUCH MUCH more money than country schools like mine do, saying that the black male lives in the city, he very well may not. Lets say he goes to the exact same school that I do. We had the exact same education. Why is it that he gets a leg up then? He didn't have to deal with any oppression. I've had people tell me who went to innercity Detroit schools that whites are more oppressed than blacks. If blacks were being rejected becuase of thier color, then why are they even checking that box? A college admissions person cannot tell what color they are, same as a scholarship. You have no clue what color that person is, or anything.......unless they want you to know, which is the case for blacks. if they didn't want a free handout, and an advantage, they should just simply not check the stupid fucking box. The simple fact remains that I may have done betetr than him, and I have no scholarships. I was rejected for finacial aid. Its should be based on merits, not skin, sex, or anything. College is not a club, its a school. They accept you by grades and may other criteria, but ti should never be skin color.
23 victor, turn right heading 210, maintain 3000 till established, cleared ILS runwy 24.
 
garnetpalmetto
Posts: 5351
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 1:38 am

RE: Black Rights Going Too Far?

Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:52 am

Its should be based on merits, not skin, sex, or anything.

And in this case it is. The National Merit Scholarship Organization doesn't hand out National Achievment Scholarships simply by virtue of being Black. Candidates have to show similar aptitude to those getting the National Merit Scholarship.
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
 
prosa
Posts: 5389
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2001 3:24 am

RE: Black Rights Going Too Far?

Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:53 am

What I am saying is simply this. In our society today, with a white majority, where whites for the most part do not have to worry about NOT getting a job based on the color of their skin, where "white" culture is predominent over evrything else, we do not need something like "White Pride Month", or "Racist Guy Hates Blacks Getting Attention So We Are Having White History Month" etc.

I see what you mean. One caveat, however, is that while a "generic white" organization would be considered improper at the very least, white ethnic organizations are perfectly acceptable. While they may be on the decline due to changing immigration patterns and whatnot, groups like the Sons of Italy and the Ancient Order of Hibernians have been around for decades without raising any eyebrows. While instinctively I know that there's a big difference between (generic) white pride and white ethnic pride, it's hard to articulate just why this is so.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
MD-90
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: Black Rights Going Too Far?

Fri Oct 15, 2004 4:28 am

I think that the state should stop being racist and not classify anyone by race.

But private groups and entities are perfectly within their rights to offer anything they want to people of any particular race, creed, religion, sex, etc.


Legacy admissions are another case of typically clueless liberals whining about something they don't understand. Universities may admit a legacy with unusually low academic qualifications or give them a scholarship that they might not "deserve", BUT IT'S IN THE UNIVERSITY'S BEST INTEREST TO DO SO! The type of "legacy" that liberals (and a few neocons) complain about often has wealthy parents. Schools know that they're more likely to get donations from Dad who went to Private U. if his son also goes to Private U., even if he didn't have the obligatory 4.0 GPA in high school.

Universities admit legacies because it suits their self interest. But considering how many people prefer communism and socialism over the free market, it's not surprising that people will complain about that.
 
prosa
Posts: 5389
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2001 3:24 am

RE: Black Rights Going Too Far?

Fri Oct 15, 2004 4:39 am

Legacy admissions are another case of typically clueless liberals whining about something they don't understand. Universities may admit a legacy with unusually low academic qualifications or give them a scholarship that they might not "deserve", BUT IT'S IN THE UNIVERSITY'S BEST INTEREST TO DO SO! The type of "legacy" that liberals (and a few neocons) complain about often has wealthy parents. Schools know that they're more likely to get donations from Dad who went to Private U. if his son also goes to Private U., even if he didn't have the obligatory 4.0 GPA in high school.

Often overlooked in the rhetoric involving legacy admissions is the fact that they're no longer a whites-only benefit by any means. For the most part, the parents of legacy applicants now seeking admission attended college back in the 1970's or early 1980's, by which time most colleges had admitted significant numbers of non-white students.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
martinairyyz
Posts: 1188
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2003 6:42 am

RE: Black Rights Going Too Far?

Fri Oct 15, 2004 4:41 am

I'm with United4everDEN and Emirates345 on this matter, it is the opposite now! Makes me mad...... they think flip floping the slave thing will make them happy... not in the long run!

[Edited 2004-10-14 21:45:57]
Chelsea Football Club supporter.
 
david b.
Posts: 2894
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 7:18 pm

RE: Black Rights Going Too Far?

Fri Oct 15, 2004 4:42 am

First, Legacy admissions have nothing to do with "whining liberals or backwards neocons". Universities will let people in if they suit the universitie's best interest. That is lots of cash or a good name to boot. Neocons do not complain about wealthy parents as much is because their god and savor was admitted just that way.

But considering how many people prefer communism and socialism over the free market, it's not surprising that people will complain about that.

That is just backwards neocon BS.

BTW: You know that universities are nowadays a profit-for-profit business.

[Edited 2004-10-14 21:47:12]
Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15261
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Black Rights Going Too Far?

Fri Oct 15, 2004 4:42 am

"For all you sad white boys getting huffy about people making it to universities and jobs because of the colour of their skin I have 2 words .... legacy admissions !

The biggest peice of discriminatory affirmative action bullshit going and guess what, you ain't complaining about that. Oh the shock !"

I strongly oppose legacy admissions primarily because a university ends up with a lot of dumbass kids just because their parents went there. HOWEVER, it's smart business; if you make a big donor give more money by admitting his/her idiot child, the benefits far exceed the losses of having a below-par student attending the universe.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
LHMark
Posts: 7048
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 2:18 am

RE: Black Rights Going Too Far?

Fri Oct 15, 2004 6:43 am

Innercity schhols get MUCH MUCH MUCH more money than country schools like mine do,

Go ask your parents how much they pay in school taxes in their fine country town, then juxtapose that with how much tax money goes to inner-city schools.

I was gonna post something along the line of "This is too racist even for MD-90," but he chimed in and saved the day. Hey, kiddo, I hope for your sake your daddy's a part of the oligarchy you so strongly advocate creating.
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
Nancy
Posts: 461
Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 1:54 pm

RE: Black Rights Going Too Far?

Fri Oct 15, 2004 7:03 am

http://www.nationalmerit.org/about.html They are a private organization: they can give money to whomever they want. You want a scholarship for white people? Pony up the bucks. If you can give people a scholarship for wearing duct tape to the prom, you can set pretty much whatever criteria you want for a scholarship fund. If you really think that it's that important pay the cash and take the criticism.
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: Black Rights Going Too Far?

Fri Oct 15, 2004 11:44 am

For the past few years, the University of Georgia has been trying to attract black students to the school. This tells you how successful it has been, there has been a decline in black students since they started to try to attract more black students to UGA.

There really are double standards in many areas when it comes to race. The City of Atlanta has business and contractor programs aimed at minorities (i.e. blacks). In the City of Atlanta, blacks have not been a minority in probably 30 some odd years. The county I currently live has the highest percentage of blacks living in Metro Atlanta, and are the majority race in the county, but yet there are programs aimed towards the African-American "minority" in the county. I'm a true minority in this county (whites have not been the majority in over a decade), where's my special minority programs? There aren't any, you know why? Because many "educated" liberals see the destruction of white history and heritage as something that needs to be done. Revisionist history doesn't right the wrongs, it just creates new wrongs.
 
david b.
Posts: 2894
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 7:18 pm

RE: Black Rights Going Too Far?

Fri Oct 15, 2004 11:58 am

Because many "educated" liberals see the destruction of white history and heritage as something that needs to be done. Revisionist history doesn't right the wrongs, it just creates new wrongs.

Absolute BS. They are not "rewriting" "white" history as you so love to claim, those programs are there for a reason. Those "educated" liberals seem to be far more educated then "educated" conservatives that love to see "color" history erased.
Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
 
garnetpalmetto
Posts: 5351
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 1:38 am

RE: Black Rights Going Too Far?

Fri Oct 15, 2004 12:02 pm

Because many "educated" liberals see the destruction of white history and heritage as something that needs to be done. Revisionist history doesn't right the wrongs, it just creates new wrongs.

In that case, MD-90 is writing an entirely different version of the Civil War and the Civil Rights Movement that you'll just love
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
 
airbus3801
Posts: 1047
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 12:49 pm

RE: Black Rights Going Too Far?

Fri Oct 15, 2004 12:23 pm

And in this case it is. The National Merit Scholarship Organization doesn't hand out National Achievment Scholarships simply by virtue of being Black. Candidates have to show similar aptitude to those getting the National Merit Scholarship.

Exactly my point, UAL denver, you are compeltly blowing this out of proportions.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15261
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Black Rights Going Too Far?

Fri Oct 15, 2004 12:27 pm

" those programs are there for a reason. "

Not any good reason though... I'd support them if they actually were successful in creating change in minority (aka anyone that's not a white male at this point) circles, but they aren't and they never have been. Special programs and affirmative action rarely ever works, and when it fails it brings about disastrous consequences, like the Sri Lankan civil war, ethnic violence in Malaysia, caste-based violence in India, tribal violence in Nigeria, etc etc. Remember Rwanda? That was the ultimate in favoring one ethnicity over another. Fortunately the US is one of, if not the most, progressive society in terms of race relations, and we don't see the similar violence, but we do see the program failures that are repeated time and again.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
CaptOveur
Posts: 6064
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 3:13 am

RE: Black Rights Going Too Far?

Fri Oct 15, 2004 12:43 pm

I recently took on the Office Space I don't give a shit mentality. I now check the Black box every time something to do with school offers it up. I have considered checking the Native American box, I may just start alternating. So far it doesn't seem anyone has noticed. I was considering applying for minority scholarships as well. Maybe the United Negro College fund can kick a few bucks my way.

If I had been as apathetic when I was taking the SAT as I am now, I would have checked it just to see what happened. As was previously stated, let them give you the scholarships, then when they pull them for claiming you are white you can either get them to prove there is no black in your backround, or sue their pants off for discrimination, you might win too.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.

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