Qb001
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Grand Canyon Was Created By Noah’s Flood

Fri Oct 22, 2004 1:26 am

If you had any doubt that Bush and his administration are dangerous religious zealotes, what more will you need now ?

Washington, DC — The Bush Administration has decided that it will stand by its approval for a book claiming the Grand Canyon was created by Noah’s flood rather than by geologic forces, according to internal documents released today by Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility (PEER).

Despite telling members of Congress and the public that the legality and appropriateness of the National Park Service offering a creationist book for sale at Grand Canyon museums and bookstores was “under review at the national level by several offices,” no such review took place, according to materials obtained by PEER under the Freedom of Information Act. Instead, the real agency position was expressed by NPS spokesperson Elaine Sevy as quoted in the Baptist Press News:

“Now that the book has become quite popular, we don’t want to remove it.”


The full article is here.

There are also many complaints by US government scientists that on many occasion, the administration has put scientific data and evidences on the side, in order to promote either commercial interests or religious beliefs. This story constitutes one more example.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
 
KROC
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RE: Grand Canyon Was Created By Noah’s Flood

Fri Oct 22, 2004 1:28 am

Obsession anyone?
 
JGPH1A
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RE: Grand Canyon Was Created By Noah’s Flood

Fri Oct 22, 2004 1:34 am

His point being, that only in America would junk "science" like Creationism be granted any kind of status, rather than being mocked and ridiculed as it clearly deserves. A responsible scientific and ecological (and above all Federally-funded) outfit like the US Parks and Wildlife Service should not be giving this kind of crap shelf-space, and the fact that it does is a sad indication of just how far the religious right has managed to penetrate and corrupt American society.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
Qb001
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RE: Grand Canyon Was Created By Noah’s Flood

Fri Oct 22, 2004 1:42 am

I'm glad to see that at least one member understands the full implication of this news.

To the others, well, I guess there is something in you as deep as the Grand Canyon, and I'm afraid it's neither your understanding of the issues, nor your intellectual capacities...
Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
 
Mir
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RE: Grand Canyon Was Created By Noah’s Flood

Fri Oct 22, 2004 2:07 am

And all along I thought that the Grand Canyon was created by aliens who were really bad shots with their death laser...
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
RT514
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RE: Grand Canyon Was Created By Noah’s Flood

Fri Oct 22, 2004 2:26 am

Absolutely hilarious that this book is for sale on site at a national park... and even funnier that an administration approves it.

Actually, it's not funny at all. It's very sad.








 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Grand Canyon Was Created By Noah’s Flood

Fri Oct 22, 2004 2:28 am

The Christian Taliban at work!  Yeah sure
And they´ve got access to nukes. Who is going to invade their country to rid them of their WMDs?

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: Grand Canyon Was Created By Noah’s Flood

Fri Oct 22, 2004 2:37 am

 
Mir
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RE: Grand Canyon Was Created By Noah’s Flood

Fri Oct 22, 2004 3:55 am

Who is going to invade their country to rid them of their WMDs

Well, the US is currently busy  Smile

Anyone want to get a broad, reaching coalition going?

7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
srbmod
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RE: Grand Canyon Was Created By Noah’s Flood

Fri Oct 22, 2004 8:37 am

Damn liars, we all know the Grand Canyon was created by Paul Bunyon's plow being pulled by Babe the Blue Ox!
 
leviticus
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RE: Grand Canyon Was Created By Noah’s Flood

Fri Oct 22, 2004 9:36 am

So what, can you prove that it was NOT created by the flood ? Duh !  Insane
 
solarix
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RE: Grand Canyon Was Created By Noah’s Flood

Fri Oct 22, 2004 10:44 am

Obsession anyone?

It's getting a bit chilly up there in Winnipeg, so he must spend his days on A.net posting threads about the evil George Bush empire.
Bong Hits 4 Jesus
 
solarix
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RE: Grand Canyon Was Created By Noah’s Flood

Fri Oct 22, 2004 10:45 am

Oopps.. sorry, wrong Canadian. But you get the idea.
Bong Hits 4 Jesus
 
nosedive
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RE: Grand Canyon Was Created By Noah’s Flood

Fri Oct 22, 2004 10:58 am

So what, can you prove that it was NOT created by the flood ? Duh !

It's more of a matter of the "seperation of church and state", if there even is such a thing. My take on the whole matter is that the US gov't can approve whatever religious dogma they choose, so long as they require me to read it or ban anything that ruffles their religious feathers. Meaning, please don't take actions based on religion alone. Though the actions that led the War in Iraq & the gay marriage ban can be heavily debated.

About the Grand Canyon and the flood, I believe that if there is a higher being, it made, and thus will abide, the laws of physics. I also believe that this higher power doesn't want to look hypocritical..... thus I believe this being must have "made" the Grand Canyon by natural weathering effects
 
jaysit
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RE: Grand Canyon Was Created By Noah’s Flood

Fri Oct 22, 2004 11:12 am

Well, thats why the US is so heavily polarized and politically divided.

On one side we have a culture of secular scientific rationalism.

On the other side we have religious retrogrades and their zombie followers mindlessly invoking idiotic dogma in really ugly mega churches that look like tacky Ramada Inns.

And then we have an idiotic regime that coddles the foolish fantasies of the latter.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
oly720man
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RE: Grand Canyon Was Created By Noah’s Flood

Fri Oct 22, 2004 8:01 pm

Must have been a big flood for Noah's ark to end up in Turkey and also create the GC and miraculously leave the surrounding land flat for miles and miles.

Anyway, I thought the concensus was that there was a landbridge between Gibraltar and N Africa that broke causing the Atlantic to flood in. There was a tv program about it a while ago and they discovered beaches around the black sea that were 100's of metres below the present sea level.
wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
 
JGPH1A
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RE: Grand Canyon Was Created By Noah’s Flood

Fri Oct 22, 2004 8:13 pm

Oly720man - I saw a similiar program, but the theory they had was that the Flood was actually the flooding of the Black Sea basin, caused by the Mediterranean sea breaking through the Dardanelles gap. They deduced this from the reoccupation of formerly abandoned hilltip settlements higher up from the coast of the Black Sea by later generations, who it was thought had migrated to the plains (which then got flooded). It seemed very plausible to me, and would explain quite nicely how the Flood mythology crept into Babylonian folklore, followed by Greek and Hebrew folklores later on.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
Banco
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RE: Grand Canyon Was Created By Noah’s Flood

Fri Oct 22, 2004 8:21 pm

The concept of a great flood is prevalent in the mythology of a great many cultures around the world. It seems reasonable to assume that it may well have happened, though the religious element of it is a separate matter. Given that sea levels did rise dramatically several thousand years ago at the end of the last ice age (creating Britain as an island for one thing) it could easily be a reference to that.

Of course, that doesn't have much to do with the idea that the Grand Canyon was created by such a flood.  Big grin
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
JGPH1A
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RE: Grand Canyon Was Created By Noah’s Flood

Fri Oct 22, 2004 8:42 pm

RE: Given that sea levels did rise dramatically several thousand years ago at the end of the last ice age (creating Britain as an island for one thing)

No doubt the "Stone Age Times" had a big headline at the time "Ice Age Ends - Continent Cut Off".  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
RT514
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RE: Grand Canyon Was Created By Noah’s Flood

Fri Oct 22, 2004 11:00 pm

...so he must spend his days on A.net posting threads about the evil George Bush empire.

Very nice, Solarix. Now, do you actually have anything constructive to contribute?


It's more of a matter of the "seperation of church and state", if there even is such a thing.

Exactly. Despite many here failing to realize it, that's actually the issue at hand, the Grand Canyon just happens to be the subject. The "seperation of church and state" was a fundamental concept as written by Thomas Jefferson and with this book, and the fact that it is approved by an administration, is stealing credibility from a traditionally fundamental American concept. Try to move in on "the right to bear arms" and the volume of opposition would be much louder.


On one side we have a culture of secular scientific rationalism.
On the other side we have religious retrogrades and their zombie followers mindlessly invoking idiotic dogma in really ugly mega churches that look like tacky Ramada Inns.
And then we have an idiotic regime that coddles the foolish fantasies of the latter.


Bravo, Jaysit. So much truth... and said with an enviable amount of wit.







 
oly720man
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RE: Grand Canyon Was Created By Noah’s Flood

Fri Oct 22, 2004 11:57 pm

No doubt the "Stone Age Times" had a big headline at the time "Ice Age Ends - Continent Cut Off".

It has been said before, nearly.... "fog in channel, continent cut off"!
wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
 
airplay
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RE: Grand Canyon Was Created By Noah’s Flood

Sat Oct 23, 2004 1:22 am

Solarix,

I'm glad to see that your posts are just as relevant and useful to the discussion as always.

But that's what I expect from someone who works odd jobs (Doing whatever) and spends his free time "Monitoring Aircraft and Military Communications, Surveillance and Eavesdropping." That profile sure paints a picture...See, I can read a profile, sink to your level and use the information in an attempt to discredit you...but to what end? Your do a much better job than I could by just posting. Keep it up.

But now for something relevant to the topic. Normally I would think that this sort of thing isn't newsworthy. Different people have different opinions on everything including how the earth was formed.

If they want to ignore science, then who am I to criticize. But....when the supreme leader of the "The Great Satan" as Solerix calls the US, actually wades into the entire issue and goes out of his way to "approve" a book like this in the context it is presented, really makes you wonder.

Will future generations of scientists and engineers support the rhetoric that makes statements in the bible literal interpretations? Will architects ensure the roof is strong enough to hold Santa Claus and all the reindeer?

Somebody has to eventually tell these people that the tooth fairy doesn't exist....and that the bible is not a literal interpretation of the world around us.


[Edited 2004-10-22 18:24:35]
 
gigneil
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RE: Grand Canyon Was Created By Noah’s Flood

Sat Oct 23, 2004 8:15 am

This is both saddening, and disturbing.

N
 
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solnabo
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RE: Grand Canyon Was Created By Noah’s Flood

Sat Oct 23, 2004 8:46 pm

It´s just f***ng pathetic!!!

And this creature is the President of the US of America, the world´s greatest nation?

Puuhhleezzee.........  Nuts  Nuts  Nuts

Micke//SE
Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
leviticus
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RE: Grand Canyon Was Created By Noah’s Flood

Sat Oct 23, 2004 9:00 pm

I still do not see what the big deal is, so far no one have yet proved otherwise right ?
 
777236ER
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RE: Grand Canyon Was Created By Noah’s Flood

Sat Oct 23, 2004 9:07 pm

Leviticus, it's the idea that the government supports the ideas of a Christian group - and carbon dating pretty much shows the canyon has been around for millions of years.

Then again you have some Christian nuts who think the 'world' is only 6000 years old.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: Grand Canyon Was Created By Noah’s Flood

Sat Oct 23, 2004 10:40 pm

There have probably been "great floods" in many parts of the world as water bodies have formed over the years, to include the Grand Canyon region. Of course, if global warming holds true and the caps melt completely, we won't be able to confirm another one as most of us will be dead.
 
L-188
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RE: Grand Canyon Was Created By Noah’s Flood

Sat Oct 23, 2004 10:42 pm

Ok guys, real story.

The great flood that created the grand canyon, was caused when I had to pee after a bender.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
learpilot
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RE: Grand Canyon Was Created By Noah’s Flood

Sat Oct 23, 2004 11:35 pm

L-188,

Your story's more believable than it being created by "Noah's Flood".  Insane
Heed our warnings or your future will be underpant free!
 
L-188
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RE: Grand Canyon Was Created By Noah’s Flood

Sat Oct 23, 2004 11:40 pm

Well I did have a lot of beer that night.

And I am a god
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Qb001
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RE: Grand Canyon Was Created By Noah’s Flood

Sat Oct 23, 2004 11:51 pm

I still do not see what the big deal is, so far no one have yet proved otherwise right ?

Quick lesson in scientific philosophy, or epistemology if you prefer.

You don't disprove an hypothesis. The way science evolves is by demonstrating, with emperical evidences, an hypothesis, which then becomes a theory. In other words, the burden of the proof is on the person who submits an hypothesis. That person cannot simply say : "Here's what I think, prove me wrong". It's the other way around : "I have an hypothesis, and here are the empirical proofs to sustain it".

Einstein's hypothesis became extremely interesting when he predicted that we could see the light of such a star during an eclipse of the sun. He was right and it was a great emperical proof, which gave his hypothesis a great deal of credibility. Soon it would become a generally accepted theory. That's the way science evolves.

So, if you believe that the Grand Canyon was created by Noah’s flood, please forward all the proofs you have; it's not up to us to disprove it.

[Edited 2004-10-23 16:52:05]
Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
 
galaxy5
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RE: Grand Canyon Was Created By Noah’s Flood

Sat Oct 23, 2004 11:52 pm

so fucking what, Geez, im sure there are plenty of books for sale there that also claim the Grand canyon was created through natural occurances of earthquakes, errosion, water and wind too. So what. Were is your "open minded" rational now, because you dont believe in creationism or the story of noah, it should be removed from all literature, did Bush say "remove all the other books that say it was caused by errosion, NO. Why don't you let others decide for themselves on how and what they want to read. Thats not whats being implied that you should only believe in creationism.
"damn, I didnt know prince could Ball like that" - Charlie Murphy
 
vafi88
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RE: Grand Canyon Was Created By Noah’s Flood

Sat Oct 23, 2004 11:53 pm

And this creature is the President of the US of America, the world´s greatest nation?

That's what a lot of Americans are saying!

I can't believe we actually elected this guy...
I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
 
L.1011
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RE: Grand Canyon Was Created By Noah’s Flood

Sun Oct 24, 2004 1:28 am

Look, I could just barely be called a Christian. I believe in God and Jesus and such, but I'm not a member of an organized religion (renounced Roman Catholicism recently) and I think creation is a crock of shit. But, even if I find the Creationists absolutely clueless, I'll defend their right to say what they please. But putting it in a national park bookstore is a little bit silly.
 
leviticus
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RE: Grand Canyon Was Created By Noah’s Flood

Sun Oct 24, 2004 2:32 am

777236ER,

Well some groups also say that carbon dating does not work (hence show huge numbers) because of the flood !
I am not saying that it is that way, just that none of you can prove that any of the parties in this issue is completely correct.
Just like the argument whether there is a God or not !
 
Qb001
Topic Author
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RE: Grand Canyon Was Created By Noah’s Flood

Sun Oct 24, 2004 3:29 am

am not saying that it is that way, just that none of you can prove that any of the parties in this issue is completely correct.

To say this, when there is not enough the beginning of the shadow of the tail of a remotely acceptable proof in favor of Noah's flood creating the Grand Canyon, you've got to be a faithful believer in creationnism. Therefore, rational scientific debate is no longer possible.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
 
Qb001
Topic Author
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RE: Grand Canyon Was Created By Noah’s Flood

Sun Oct 24, 2004 3:32 am

But, even if I find the Creationists absolutely clueless, I'll defend their right to say what they please. But putting it in a national park bookstore is a little bit silly.

My thoughts exactly.

But what's more silly, is that the presence of such books in a national park bookstore is protected by someone within the current administration. And actually, it's more than silly, it's scary.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
 
tbar220
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RE: Grand Canyon Was Created By Noah’s Flood

Sun Oct 24, 2004 5:34 am

Qb,

Scary? Dude, I think you need to get your priorities straightened out, as dumb as this is, does it seriously scare you? Loosen up a little, and if it really does scare you, well go have a beer.
NO URLS in signature
 
Qb001
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RE: Grand Canyon Was Created By Noah’s Flood

Sun Oct 24, 2004 5:45 am

does it seriously scare you

Not in the sense that I lose sleep at night. But it does take me aback sometimes, big time.

A top aide to GWB recently confessed to a NY Times journalist that reality cannot be understood, as the USA, as an empire, creates its own reality (hence everything in Iraq is going fine). It's the same irrationnality that is at work here, in the topic covered by this thread.

Kerry called that attitude "orwellian". I'd rather call it "neo-obscurantism".
Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
 
777236ER
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RE: Grand Canyon Was Created By Noah’s Flood

Mon Oct 25, 2004 3:14 am

Well some groups also say that carbon dating does not work (hence show huge numbers) because of the flood !
I am not saying that it is that way, just that none of you can prove that any of the parties in this issue is completely correct.
Just like the argument whether there is a God or not


The evidence says carbon dating works. Enough said.
Your bone's got a little machine

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