AA7e7
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Gun Control

Sat Oct 30, 2004 8:26 am

Hello everyone I was wondering what everyone here at a.net thinks about gun control? Should the United States have it,and does gun control reduce crime?

Thanks
"Brave Brave Brave Sir Robin"
 
Superfly
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RE: Gun Control

Sat Oct 30, 2004 8:28 am

I am against gun control. It's just feel good talk for politicians to pat themselves on the back.
I support the 2nd. Amendment and guns are a fundamental right granted by the Constitution.
Bring back the Concorde
 
csavel
Posts: 1278
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RE: Gun Control

Sat Oct 30, 2004 8:40 am

Well put Superfly.

It's all very nice to try to ban guns but I do believe that if we outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns. No matter how good the cops are they can't be everywhere everytime, so people do have a right to defend themselves. I've never felt the need to carry one, even though I'm a lifelong resident of NYC, but it isn't for me to say what other people would do.

Arguments for gun control go like this

1) Americans are so,... tsk.. tsk.
The US is so violent etc, etc, etc, guns are a US pathology.
Maybe, but banning them won't make the US any less violent, so whatever the truth of the observation that Americans are more violent than Europeans, banning guns won't turn Bubbah into law-abiding Lars.

2) Guns kill
Well not to mouth the NRA, but people kill, not guns, and true they kill with guns, the fact that a gun is potentially deadly means that the owner has more responsibility and should be prepared to accept that responsibility, not that the government should not allow responsible gun owners their right.

3) OK, OK, but if there were no guns, the worst violent people would do in the heat of passion is stab a few people or take a baseball bat and knock a few persons heads in. They simply wouldn't have the tools available, when they go postal, to mow down ten or fifteen at a time.

I have to admit, argument 3 really got me thinking, its probably the best of the bunch, but still, I have to say that if we accept argument 3, then we have nanny-state creep, in that we could ban alcohol because some drunken arsehole will drive drunk and slam into a van of kids, the fact that someone somewhere can wreak havoc with something, doesn't mean that that something has to be restricted for everyone everywhere.
I may be ugly. I may be an American. But don't call me an ugly American.
 
PPGMD
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RE: Gun Control

Sat Oct 30, 2004 8:47 am

Holy shit, the Red Sox's win the series, and I agree with Superfly. Someone call up and check the temperature in hell.
At worst, you screw up and die.
 
Superfly
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RE: Gun Control

Sat Oct 30, 2004 8:50 am

PPGMD:
Funny!  Laugh out loud

Another Bostonian will celebrate vitory on Tuesday!  Smokin cool
Bring back the Concorde
 
b757300
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RE: Gun Control

Sat Oct 30, 2004 8:54 am

Just look at states that have Conceal & Carry laws verses states that do not. In almost every case, the crime rate is lower (adjusting for things such as population sizes) in states with C&C laws than states that impose strict "gun control".

While some claim that C&C would cause a return to the "wild west", this has never happened. When Texas enacted C&C, the crime rate dropped and only a few license holders have ever been convicted of a crime involving their firearm. I can personally attest to the fact that C&C saves lives. A few years ago one of my co-workers and good friend was walking to her house from her truck. A man stepped out of the shadows and grabbed her. After a brief struggle, she managed to get out of his grasp and pull her pistol out of her purse. The guy saw it and ran away. The gun most likely prevented her from being raped and probably saved her life.
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13916
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RE: Gun Control

Sat Oct 30, 2004 8:55 am

I wonder why a country like Switzerland, where almost every household has at least one military assault rifle plus ammo at home, has very low rate of crime? Or countries like Finnland or Sweden, where, due to the huge forests, the number of hunters is very high?
I think it is more a problem of selfdiscipline and culture.
Like Superfly I lean politicaly to the left, but I´m in favour of gun ownership. While at the moment (and for the last 55 years) my country has been ruled democraticaly, with politicians willing to step down after they lost an election, you´ll never know what the future will bring. We have an article in our constitution giving every citizen the right of, if necessary armed, resistance against a tyrannical regime. The only problem is, that as history has shown, in most cases the military and police will side with the government (after all they are paying them and are giving them the toys and power), and how can you resist without having the means to do it? For this reason I´m in favour of letting civilians (if they like it) to own even miltary weapons, while on the other hand cracking down extremely hard on people who abuse this right.

In Europe, weapon control was always a means by the ruling class to control the people. Our gunlaws were originaly made up to protect the ruling class from a revolution or rebellion (mainly through the working class). Today we are sacrificing (not just through gun laws, but also through increasing surveillance) lots of our freedom in the name of "security" against terrorists and criminals. There´ll always be terrorists and criminals, we have to live with it, but better than setting up the infrastructure for a future dictatorship.
Even during Hitler´s and Stalin´s dictatorships, there were still loopholes, but modern technology plus gun laws make the chances of resistance against future dictatorships almost inexistent.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
air2gxs
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RE: Gun Control

Sat Oct 30, 2004 9:00 am

There is gun control in the US, just not at the federal level (unless you count heavy weapons and the such). There is plenty of gun control at state and local levels. Several states have out-right bans on the possession of hand guns and are highly restrictive of rifles/shotguns. Other states are very liberal (conservative in thinking) about firearms.

I feel (like I do about a lot of subjects) that it comes down to personal responsibility. I own firearms for sport, defense, self actualization (target shooting) and as part of a collection (nothing at all fancy). I have no intention of using my firearms for anything but the above listed uses.

The right of gun ownership is like any other right, it comes with responsibilities. Thus who can't deal with the responsibility should be punished by the authorities. Criminals who use guns should be treated to extra provisions to make sure they do not ever get out and menace society again. No parole, no probation. Serve the full sentence.

Parents that allow their children to play with guns and injure themselves or others should be held responsible in criminal court, not civil.

Guns are just like any other tool. There is a proper way to use them and an improper way to use them. I have no problem with states that require a license to carry a firearm. If you wish to carry a firearm, you should be able to prove you can use it responsibly (know the laws) and accurately.
 
N771AN
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RE: Gun Control

Sat Oct 30, 2004 9:11 am

I think it is more a problem of selfdiscipline and culture.

I agree 107%. It is the "attitude" that we must change in America not simply banning guns.
 
jamesag96
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RE: Gun Control

Sat Oct 30, 2004 9:12 am

So wait a minute...the Sox win the Series...a Lunar Eclipse...and I agree with Superfly...all in one week?

What a mind job.
Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
 
JetService
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RE: Gun Control

Sat Oct 30, 2004 9:19 am

I'm not suprised at all. I actually agree with Superfly on many important issues such as music, women and cars.
"Shaddap you!"
 
BH346
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RE: Gun Control

Sat Oct 30, 2004 9:58 am

Although I don't understand the obsession some have with guns, I don't really see excessive control as being effective. It won't stop criminals from using them, they can find some way to get to them sooner or later. I don't see a problem with guns in the hands of responsible owners.
Northwest Airlines - Some People Just Know How to Fly
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Gun Control

Sat Oct 30, 2004 10:06 am

I have to state, that while I would like to do target shooting and collecting life historically significant military guns instead of the demilled ones I own right now, I felt safe enough whereever I´ve been so far and, at least in the current situation ansd forseeable future, I don´t see any reason why I should carry a handgun around. Others might feel less safe and might have the wish to carry one for selfdefense, but for myself I don´t see the need.

Jan

PS:
In any case, if somebody carries a gun in public, or just owns guns, he should have done gun safety and self defense training. IMO a person who doesn´t know how to react in tight situations and doesn´t know how to handle his gun (and that includes hitting what you intend to hit and not hitting something else) is just plain dangerous, to himself and others.
Also, guns don´t belong in children´s hands (maybe supervised target shooting or hunting for teenagers). If not used, they should be locked away in a safe. This will also prevent a burglar from using them against the landlord.

Edit: Added last paragraph

[Edited 2004-10-30 03:17:43]
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Gun Control

Sat Oct 30, 2004 11:17 am

If by "gun control" you mean using-two-hands, then sure  Big thumbs up
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Gun Control

Sat Oct 30, 2004 11:29 am

Maybe the introduction of a gun owner´s licence, similar to a driver´s licence will help, not registering the guns, but the person has to prove that he can safely handle and store guns, similar to a driving licence, obtained after a safety course, just like driving school.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
dl021
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RE: Gun Control

Sat Oct 30, 2004 11:49 am

Jan...I agree with you that cultures that take self responsibilty seriously are more likely to be safer with firearms. Feel free to let me know the next time you are in the states and I will take you shooting with not only modern firearms but at a place here where you can shoot an excellent collection of historically significant military weapons. Ian

Jetservice and James..You guys are not alone, Superfly sometimes amazes me with the things we can agree on. But dont kid yourselves...he just wants to restart the Black Panthers!  Laugh out loud
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
StevenUhl777
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RE: Gun Control

Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:31 pm

Absolutely...gun control means using BOTH hands!

I wonder if John Kerry knows that...but, I doubt it. He looked really cute and pretty with his pet shotgun, but he's a wolf in sheep's clothing. Truth is, John Kerry has voted for most, if not all, bills in the Senate that would pass worthless, feel-good legislation that does nothing. He pandered to the Sarah Brady crowd by supporting the stupid AWB in '94, even though that bill was based on cosmetic reasons only, banning the the "scary" looking guns. What a pussy.

But, W will win next week, and will continue to defend our rights.

Osama Bin Laden declared today that the security of America is up to the people. That's right...now that we can buy assualt weapons again, bring on those Al Qaeda pussies!
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
Superfly
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RE: Gun Control

Sat Oct 30, 2004 2:46 pm

DIO21:
But dont kid yourselves...he just wants to restart the Black Panthers!



Damn right!  Laugh out loud


Bring back the Concorde
 
Hamfist
Posts: 606
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RE: Gun Control

Sat Oct 30, 2004 3:28 pm

As long as the village idiots (high school dropouts, room temperature IQ's, etc.) have the right to steer this country with their (usually impressionable) votes, I don't think a redneck with guns is any more damaging!
 
AvObserver
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RE: Gun Control

Sat Oct 30, 2004 6:00 pm

"now that we can buy assualt weapons again, bring on those Al Qaeda pussies!"

The flip side of this is that Al Queda operatives long in this country that have established themselves as 'respectable' citizens with clean records will likely also be able to pass background checks and not all of them look Arabic, allowing them to buy those same assault weapons. While gun ownership is a constitutional right, there's no logical reason for citizens to own firearms powerful enough to repel police or perhaps, in the wrong hands, take down an airplane. While the assault weapons ban Congress failed to extend wouldn't stop all terrorists in the U.S. from obtaining such weapons, I can't believe it doesn't make it easier for them to get them, even if they have to steal them from legitimate owners. I think the scenario of common citizen using assault rifles to personally combat terrorists is highly unlikely, especially those without a military background. The day Joe Citizen and his pals decide that our government has got to go and organize a revolution to take it down is the only justifiable reason I can see for private individuals to own AK-47s and the lot, otherwise it's just plain crazy. Rifles and shotguns, no problem, but something that could blow up a police car or even ravage a precinct, that's just NUTS!  Nuts
 
L-188
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RE: Gun Control

Sat Oct 30, 2004 6:12 pm

While gun ownership is a constitutional right, there's no logical reason for citizens to own firearms powerful enough to repel police or perhaps, in the wrong hands, take down an airplane

Falicy #1:Assualt weapons are more powerful.

Truth. Military calibers are not that powerful to comply with the Geneva conventions. In fact in some states 5.56 Nato is illegal to use as a hunting round on anything bigger then a small deer because the likelyhood to wound, not kill the animal.

The fact is that if I get that .458 Lott that I have been thinking of as a bear gun, I should be able to punch through an engine block.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
dl021
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RE: Gun Control

Sat Oct 30, 2004 11:45 pm

l-188 is correct in that, but the statement he made about the rifle rond that would burn through an engine block is probably going to inflame the indignation of th anti-gun crowd and could lead them to utter another fallacy, that the mere possession of a powerful firearm makes people liable to be criminals.

There are a large number of people who are irrationally frightened of others who possess firearms, when in fact their fears would be better directed toward the casual attitude certain people have towards drunk driving, drug use, and child supervision around the home.

The odds of your child or loved one being killed by a criminal or in an accident using a firearm are extremely low.....

.. whereas many people have the misconception about how capable they are to drive with "just a few drinks, I'm fine!" and they get on the same road with your family and put you all in serious danger killing more of us than all firearms related deaths every year.....

...it is a virtual certainty that your child will be offered drugs at school or a social function prior to his/her 14th birthday yet many of the same anti-gun people are also "casual" drug users who refuse to recognize the gateway effect of initial drug use and the fact that their purchases are helping to fund the efforts of drug dealers to hook kids at earlier and earlier ages...

...the incidence of children being hrt on trampolines or killed by drowning in swimming pools goes beyond that of children dying in firearms accidents, but the anti-gun people choose to accept this risk, and others.

Where is the outcry against the hypocrisy of the people who cry about guns yet ignore the more dangerous elements of the everyday environment our families face every day.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
air2gxs
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RE: Gun Control

Sat Oct 30, 2004 11:52 pm

I'd argue that repeling the police and/or the military was the very reason the 2nd amendment was placed into the Bill of Rights. The framers, especially Jefferson, were very concerned with an overly powerful federal government. The Bill of Rights is all about the rights of the people and the states over the federal governemt.

Now, I'm not one of those militia fools that feels the government is out to get us, but I do feel that Jefferson and some of the authors of the Bill of Rights may have fit in pretty well with them.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Gun Control

Sun Oct 31, 2004 1:11 am

Just look at states that have Conceal & Carry laws verses states that do not. In almost every case, the crime rate is lower (adjusting for things such as population sizes) in states with C&C laws than states that impose strict "gun control".

And yet here in Canada where gun laws are ever tighter than any single US state, gun crime is even lower. Murder by guns drops a whopping 94% when you cross the US border into Canada, simply due to our stricter gun laws.

Canadians have give up a little freedom to own guns for the far more fundamental freedom from fear of being shot. A very worthy trade off.

Guns are for the police and military. Ban them for everyone else.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
StevenUhl777
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RE: Gun Control

Sun Oct 31, 2004 2:00 am

Guns are for the police and military. Ban them for everyone else

If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. Hope you know how to protect yourself with a butter knife!  Laugh out loud Or should we ban other items that could be used as weapons, too?
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
safety1
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RE: Gun Control

Sun Oct 31, 2004 2:14 am

Here in the UK we pride ourselves on having some of the strictest gun controls in the world, however we still have a problem with illegally obtained firearms being used mainly by criminal gangs/drug dealers in our city areas.

I am not an expert on this but I believe that no one can own any type of gun unless they belong to a registered gun club or someone like a farmer, gamekeeper etc. Is this correct? is there anyone else from the UK who knows more about this???

The UK murder figures for gun related crime is about 70 between June 03 and June 04

I believe the States had something like 16200 gun related murders in 2002 alone. A quite staggering and wholly unacceptable amount of deaths, even considering the size of the country and population. Do you not realise that is equivalent to 5/6 9/11's each year!!!!

I just cannot understand why anyone would want or needs to own a gun of any sort, leave it to the Military or Police only. (remember that in the UK our Police are not normally armed)

Safety 1
 
ordflyer
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RE: Gun Control

Sun Oct 31, 2004 5:20 am

Maybe the introduction of a gun owner´s licence, similar to a driver´s licence will help
We have something like that here in Illinois called an FOID card (firearm ownership identification card). Basically if you want to own a gun in IL (legally at least) you need to fill out the form and they run a background check to be sure you don't have any felonies. Not sure how effective the system is though.
It is amazing to me how shortsighted some gun control advocates can be...saying "ban all guns" and all our problems will be solved. Drugs are illegal here, but we still have as many problems with them today as we ever did. If guns were outlawed it would just open up the black market even more, and people would just smuggle them into the country. To reduce our crime rate we need to look at our society, not just blindly say banning all guns will make everything peachy. Murders also involve knives and automobiles, should we ban them too? We have a much bigger problem facing us and its called drunk drivers....I have never personally known anybody harmed or killed by a gun, but I have had three friends killed in two seperate drunk driving accidents.
As for accidental shootings, I think there is a pretty easy solution to that problem...anybody living in a household that owns guns should be required to attend a gun safety class. The "out of sight out of mind" attitude that some parents have about their guns is the worst possible way to think. Someday little Johnny may come across his dad's gun and play with it since he is curious. If everyone is taught the proper handling and respect that guns need the accident rate would drop sharply I think.
 
air2gxs
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RE: Gun Control

Sun Oct 31, 2004 6:19 am

I still think you guys miss the point. Read the US Constitution sometime. The main body of The Constitution in Art. 1, sec 10.3 forbids the states from having a standing army (military), yet the 2nd amendment clearly allows the arming of the populaces for the purposes of raising and maintaining a militia. The right to possess a firearm is a right which is granted not for self-defense or hunting or any other such endeavor. It exists so that the states may retain some form of control against the federal government.

Have a look at this site which examines the Founding Father's (especially Jefferson's) attitudes towards a variety of topics and tries to apply a Jeffersonian point of view.

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/7970/jefpcont.htm


[Edited 2004-10-30 23:21:02]
 
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keesje
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RE: Gun Control

Sun Oct 31, 2004 6:43 am

The US gun ownership is not understood outside the US

I will not come up with statistics, the NRA, popular beliefs

but IMO it´s outrageous...
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
air2gxs
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RE: Gun Control

Sun Oct 31, 2004 7:50 am

Correct, most non-US residents (and some of our residents) don't understand our mentality when it comes to gun ownership. We feel the private ownership of firearms in the US is as important as any other right we have. All you have to do is look at our history to see that. Granted alot of it is not glorious or pretty, but it is our history and has shaped our thoughts.

Let's not forget that whenever a dictator came to power in other country in the past, the first thing done was to confiscate all privately owned firearms. Ask yourself why?
 
L-188
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RE: Gun Control

Sun Oct 31, 2004 12:04 pm

The 2nd amendment remains to this day the only one of the original 10 bill of rights that has not been ordered applied to the states by the federal courts. I hope in time that will change.

Besides more people are killed by cars and doctors in this country every year....maybe we should ban them first eh?
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Gun Control

Sun Oct 31, 2004 2:32 pm

yet the 2nd amendment clearly allows the arming of the populaces for the purposes of raising and maintaining a militia. The right to possess a firearm is a right which is granted not for self-defense or hunting or any other such endeavor. It exists so that the states may retain some form of control against the federal government.

Sounds quaint but anachronistic. Perhaps a relevant amendment in 1776 when the US was a frontier society with only a fledging fed govt, but completely outdated in 2004. Ban the gun.

most non-US residents (and some of our residents) don't understand our mentality when it comes to gun ownership. We feel the private ownership of firearms in the US is as important as any other right we have.

More important than saving innocent lives?

Besides more people are killed by cars and doctors in this country every year....maybe we should ban them first eh?

Cars and doctors are needed. Guns are not. Maybe if your wife was killed by a random gunshot you would change your mind on the freedom to own guns.





I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
L-188
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RE: Gun Control

Sun Oct 31, 2004 4:30 pm

Cars and doctors are needed. Guns are not.

Sorry but we got along fine before cars, and think of all the enviromental damage they do.

Guns are tools, nothing more. There are still places in this country and I am pretty sure yours too that people shoot or hook their dinner. Depending on the season.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Gun Control

Sun Oct 31, 2004 5:04 pm

Guns are tools, nothing more. There are still places in this country and I am pretty sure yours too that people shoot or hook their dinner. Depending on the season.

Yup. So let's ban all guns except for hunters. That should eliminate 99% of guns in the US, and likely 99.9% of murder by guns.

This will save thousands of US lives.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
L-188
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RE: Gun Control

Sun Oct 31, 2004 5:37 pm

No it won't Yyz.

Pissed off people will just move to other ways to kill, Ever hear of a stabing, running somebody over with a car?
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
safety1
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RE: Gun Control

Sun Oct 31, 2004 9:45 pm

L-188

Sounds like you are saying that people in the States are obssessed with killing each other, if not with an assault rifle, then some sort of knife/machete. These too are illegal to own in the UK.

If you are caught with any type of illegal firearm in the UK whether or not you have discharged it, you will get a 5 year prison sentance.

Safety1
 
Arniepie
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RE: Gun Control

Sun Oct 31, 2004 10:26 pm

Coming from a country with a widespread gun culture too, I believe that gun control leads to nothing but I also believe that ,same like a driving license, there should be something like a fire-arms license.
I don't mean that everybody should be trained as a sharpshooter but every gun owner should have to take a test where they have to show that they know how to savely use a gun, transport it, what to do in case of an accident, etc... .
Also you should have to own a safe place to store your gun (when riding a bike you need a helmet too, so why not a safe for a gun).
Also some people should be restricted from owning and using firearms at any time.

just my 2 cts.
[edit post]
 
L-188
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RE: Gun Control

Sun Oct 31, 2004 11:45 pm

Safety1.

Obsessed? No, but again a rifle is a tool for getting hamburger in it's natural form.

Such as



EDIT: Or should that be in it's unassembled form.

[Edited 2004-10-31 15:51:44]
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
L-188
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RE: Gun Control

Mon Nov 01, 2004 12:00 am

Oh in case anybody was wondering what hot dogs looks like in their natural state.



Oh note the rifle is a Springfield M1A, which is based on the M-14 service rifle, it is considered an assault rifle in some states.

Sort of thows that no useful purpose arguement for assualt rifles out of the window doesn't it?
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
ordflyer
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RE: Gun Control

Mon Nov 01, 2004 1:04 am

Sounds like you are saying that people in the States are obssessed with killing each other, if not with an assault rifle, then some sort of knife/machete.
Sadly there is some truth to that statement. Alot of gun violence comes from gang members who can't stand eachother and will kill in any way possible. Eliminate these gangs and gun related crimes drop dramatically. We need to hit the source of the crime problem in our country, not try find a band-aid solution.
With all respect to others who say gun bans work in their countries, each country has different needs and laws that apply to those needs. For example, Germany's autobahn type speed limits would never work here because we have far too many idiotic drivers. Strong gun controls may have helped in the UK, but the US is far larger in land area, and has a strong gun/hunting culture. Not to mention the hundreds of thousands of citizens who are employed in gun related industries in our country. I think the best system is the one we have now, where each state sets different laws. The needs of urban southern California are much different than rural Montana where hunting is a way of life. An all out ban on guns would simply cause chaos, but do nothing to reduce violent crime.
 
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keesje
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RE: Gun Control

Mon Nov 01, 2004 6:44 am

Children learning to kill beautiful animals

Great!

Well I´m sure it is a necessary cultural thing, otherwise the Bible would condemn it.

If one compares the gun related killings in the US with other western states, one would expect a code red and immediate action

However the locals seem to be in love with the killing tools, come up with laws from a different era, freak examples, frightening forecasts, cultural BS etc.

Well, let them, its their problem

"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
DC10GUY
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RE: Gun Control

Mon Nov 01, 2004 9:24 am

I support a total bad on the sale, manufacture and distribution of any and all guns/ lethal weapons and ammo in the US. Any gun caught outside a persons home should be melted down. Yes, a total ban.
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
L-188
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RE: Gun Control

Mon Nov 01, 2004 9:32 am

Children learning to kill beautiful animals

Nope, Keesje.

What I see is kids learning the importance of providing for their family.

Actually this is one of my theories as to why the world is so screwed up these days. City and Suburb kids don't have a vested interest in their own survival or that of the family. They get home from school and just plop themselves in front of the Playstation. They are never asked to contribute to the family or it's survival and are never asked to contribute. I think this contributes greatly to the "entitlement" mentality we see today in people from these backgrounds, which unfortunately are becomming much more common.

Now on the other hands kids on farms grow up with jobs on the farm. They get to actively contribute to the families success and survival. They get that work-reward link established early in life. That makes them better people. Ditto for the common one where I grew up, Kids who got their first jobs working on their dad's or uncles fishing boats.

When I grew up being the one that brought home the fish that we where eating for dinner that night was a big deal. If you got to go hunting with dad and nailed a boo or a moose, well that was an even bigger deal. It was something to be proud of, you provided for your family and fed them.

I just don't see an equivelent activity for kids in suburbia that provides such a positive influence on kids and their activities.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
L.1011
Posts: 2164
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2001 7:46 am

RE: Gun Control

Mon Nov 01, 2004 9:50 am

As was said before, if you outlaw guns, only the outlaws will have guns.
 
Jalto27R
Posts: 841
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 8:49 am

RE: Gun Control

Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:37 am

Criminals for Gun Control: We don't want to get hurt on the job!

 Wink/being sarcastic

Mike
 
N317AS
Posts: 941
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 1:25 pm

RE: Gun Control

Mon Nov 01, 2004 1:17 pm

If it hasn't been said before in this thread;

GUN CONTROL IS HITTING THE TARGET!!!
Some people are like Slinkies. They bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13916
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Gun Control

Mon Nov 01, 2004 1:46 pm

Keesje,

What do you think happens to the pig or the cow in the abbatoir?
As long as humans eat meat, somebody will have to kill an animal.
And deer and wild pigs develop to real pest, at least over here due to lack of predators and the fake aristocrat culture that goes with hunting over here. And IMO it is better to kill an animal to eat it than just for the antlers or other trophies, like unfortunately many rich hunter do here. Another thing is that where L-188 lives, you´ll have to do some real hiking to get close to the animal and later carry the carcass a long distance back to the car, not like those "hunters" in Germany, who drive up within 100 yards of a clearance in a forest (better say a foresty looking park) in which there is a block of salt nailed to a treestump, hide in a prepared wooden hut and shoot at deer which are coming because they are used to get fed in this place  Yeah sure

Jan

Jan

[Edited 2004-11-01 05:51:29]
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Gun Control

Mon Nov 01, 2004 1:56 pm

MD11Engineer, actually we try to shoot as close to the road as we can too so we don't have that far to drag it out either  Laugh out loud

Of course Germany is the only place where I have been where the deer as smaller then the local rabbits.....weird  Laugh out loud

When I was a kid our plastic toboggans and sleds where sacrificed often for the purposes of dragging a caribou out.

And also consider that generally with a wild animal you don't have to worry about it having been shot up with anabolic steroids, growth hormones or anything else. So I consider it a healthier choice to hunt for meat rather then buying farmed raised.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13916
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Gun Control

Mon Nov 01, 2004 2:13 pm

L-188

On the other hand, I´ve heard that often wild animals have a lot of parasites, which in some cases can be nasty to humans as well.
Especially wild boar can harbour a dangerous worm, which can give you liver and other trouble.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Gun Control

Mon Nov 01, 2004 2:19 pm

True, but you aren't supposed to eat them raw MD11.

That is one of the reasons why you cook meat.

BTW: I think you are thinking of Trichinosis, which also can occur in domestic pigs.

Again cooking it kills it.

By the way bear meat is also a good source of the trichinosis parasite, and should be cooked thoughly too.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.

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