Falcon84
Topic Author
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

Closing Argument

Tue Nov 02, 2004 8:52 am

The most important vote of my lifetime, so far, takes place tomorrow. We have fundamentally different candidates, and the choice, in my mind could not be clearer.

-If you approve of a war, started on false pretenses; where a new excuse is offered monthly for the reasons for that war, you choice is clear.

-If you believe that campaigning and governing on a platform of fear is proper, and moves the nation forward, your choice is clear.

-If you believe that cloaking everything your government does in secrecy, and veiling it behind the catch-all of "national security" is proper, your choice is clear.

-If you believe that large, booming deficits, that, someday, will have to be dealt with, are a proper way to govern, and are good for the economy, your choice is clear.

-If you believe that outsourcing jobs to other nations, and giving away good-paying American jobs in exchange for jobs that pay less and have fewer benefits, is a good thing, then your choice is clear.

-If you believe in letting polluters write clean air bills; if you believe in letting oil write the ground rules for oil; if you believe in letting energy companies dictate how they will treat consumers, your choice is clear.

-If you believe that it's right to keep safe and less expensive drugs from being imported from Canada; if you believe it is right that the cost of prescriptions can never go down, and only go up, your choice is clear.

-If you believe treating our friends and allies around the world with utter contempt because they won't tow our line without question, then your choice is clear.

If you believe in these things, your choice is clear.

If you don't, your choice is even clearer.

We need a new president; we need to regain our respect and dignity in the world around us. It's time to send Mr. Bush back to Texas where he can enjoy a healthy, safe, happy and blessed retirement.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 13438
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

RE: Closing Argument

Tue Nov 02, 2004 8:59 am

-If you believe that outsourcing jobs to other nations, and giving away good-paying American jobs in exchange for jobs that pay less and have fewer benefits, is a good thing, then your choice is clear.


If you believe either Presidential candidate can stop outsourcing entirely, I have a bridge to sell you.  Insane
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
Falcon84
Topic Author
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Closing Argument

Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:00 am

If you believe either Presidential candidate can stop outsourcing entirely..

That is true. But the current president doesn't even try to slow it down. It's time for a change.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
NW747400
Posts: 322
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 4:56 am

RE: Closing Argument

Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:03 am

If you believe what Falcon just said, I've got a nice beech front property in Arizona I'll sell you for a great price.
NW747400
 
DLKAPA
Posts: 7962
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:37 am

RE: Closing Argument

Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:07 am

C-C-C-Come and face the Change
Ch-Ch-Ch-Changes!

As I drove through town this evening I saw clearly that change was in the air. Autumn has finally hit this little town called Durango, Colorado, and there are pro-Kerry pro-Change stickers everywhere, with narry a Bush sticker in site. If this tiny pocket of liberalism is more prevalent around the country, then I think the future looks bright.

If this town is the last liberal stronghold on a conservative america, then the future looks very, very bleak.

My choice has been made.
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
N771AN
Posts: 411
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 12:27 pm

RE: Closing Argument

Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:08 am

Autumn has finally hit this little town called Durango, Colorado, and there are pro-Kerry pro-Change stickers everywhere, with narry a Bush sticker in site.

It must be change because there are Bush signs all over the state of New Jersey. I have never seen such a thing!
 
Falcon84
Topic Author
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Closing Argument

Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:11 am

It must be change because there are Bush signs all over the state of New Jersey. I have never seen such a thing!

And he's still losing in most polls there. Amazing!

And, uh, I doubt you've been "all over" the state just to check that out.  Laugh out loud
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
NW747400
Posts: 322
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 4:56 am

RE: Closing Argument

Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:11 am

I wonder how many people live in your town? I'm in a town of 250,000. Over the last two weeks, I've seen 25 Kerry-Edwards bumper stickers. In that same amount of time I've seen SO many Bush-Cheney bumper stickers I stopped counting at 200. I would say your in a small pocket of liberalism.
NW747400
 
DLKAPA
Posts: 7962
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:37 am

RE: Closing Argument

Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:14 am

Yeah, this county is going liberal, 40,000 people in Durango. Unfortunately the rest of the state will probably go Bush, including the county I voted in. Damn.
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
Falcon84
Topic Author
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Closing Argument

Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:20 am

I wonder how many people live in your town? I'm in a town of 250,000.

Then you're not looking. I live in a town of about 45,000, and have seen several hundred Kerry signs, and maybe 150 Bush signs.

And I really that isn't indicative of how the vote will, because the majority of the houses don't have signs, and so you can't tell who's pulling for whom.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
Kohflot
Posts: 941
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 1999 5:31 am

RE: Closing Argument

Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:23 am

Falcon84:

Don't forget about the Bush administration's trend of selling off wild public land..

Or that (as he claimed in one of the debates) he would tell someone that just had their job outsourced (for fun, let's consider that person a PhD in the Silicon Valley.. where it happens) that there's assistance on the way to help them through a community college or technical school, so that they can learn the skills of the 21st century.

Ask why..
 
DLKAPA
Posts: 7962
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:37 am

RE: Closing Argument

Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:27 am

To me if Bush, or anybody for that matter, said that straight to my face, I would probably put my fist straight to theirs.
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
NW747400
Posts: 322
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 4:56 am

RE: Closing Argument

Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:30 am

Falcon, Oh I look. I don't count yard signs, because I can't possibly cover the whole city. Since people drive all over the city I count bumper stickers. I see significantly more Bush-Cheney bumper stickers as I stated in my earlier post.
NW747400
 
Falcon84
Topic Author
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Closing Argument

Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:36 am

You see more, BECAUSE YOU ARE LOOKING FOR THEM.

Got it?  Smile
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
N771AN
Posts: 411
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 12:27 pm

RE: Closing Argument

Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:37 am

And, uh, I doubt you've been "all over" the state just to check that out.

I'm constantly on the road.
 
DLKAPA
Posts: 7962
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:37 am

RE: Closing Argument

Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:38 am

Do I have to walk out into my Campus parking lot to count the number of bush stickers vs the number of kerry stickers?

Oh wait it is college and therefore somehow biased  Yeah sure
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
DeltaGuy
Posts: 3965
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 5:25 am

RE: Closing Argument

Tue Nov 02, 2004 10:06 am

And as you drive down here in Cocoa Beach, FL...nary is a Kerry sign found...Pro-Bush everywhere, people standing with signs, and general anti-Kerry feelings in the air. If one poor bastard stands out on the curb with a Kerry sign, he gets about 1000 middle fingers. Florida WILL be carried by OUR President.

I've got a nice beech front property in Arizona I'll sell you for a great price.

From what I hear, Steaksauce has been talking to George Strait about that property, he mentioned it in one of his songs several years back..maybe Kerry can enjoy it too, but usually Arizona swings Conservative  Smile

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
JAXpax
Posts: 463
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 9:52 am

RE: Closing Argument

Tue Nov 02, 2004 10:12 am

I hope the thread starter would enjoy paying for the higher prices on items that would result from an end to outsourcing and paying for them out of the smaller take-home pay after higher taxation.
 
JeffM
Posts: 7569
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 3:32 am

RE: Closing Argument

Tue Nov 02, 2004 10:32 am

If you believe everything Falcon wrote in his opening to this thread is true...

God help you. Your more f*cked up then I thought.
 
Falcon84
Topic Author
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Closing Argument

Tue Nov 02, 2004 10:41 am

I hope the thread starter would enjoy paying for the higher prices on items that would result from an end to outsourcing and paying for them out of the smaller take-home pay after higher taxation.

One of the dumber things I've ever read on here.

Know what happens when you outsource all these jobs, Jaxpax, and bring back ones that pay less? Eventually, you erode the consumer power of the American people, not increase it. Eventually, all these companies that outsource, are going to find that Americans that they've short-changed can't afford their products.

When your job gets outsourced, I want you to come on here and tell me what a great thing it is.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
JeffM
Posts: 7569
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 3:32 am

RE: Closing Argument

Tue Nov 02, 2004 10:52 am

"When your job gets outsourced, I want you to come on here and tell me what a great thing it is."


Jax...

Falcon does not have to worry about his job being outsourced... Ask him why.  Big grin

 
DLKAPA
Posts: 7962
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:37 am

RE: Closing Argument

Tue Nov 02, 2004 10:59 am

At the moment I don't have to worry about my job being outsourced, that is, unless FLC up and moves to India Big grin

If you believe everything Falcon wrote in his opening to this thread is true...

God help you. Your more f*cked up then I thought.


If you ignore the truth and instead believe everything Bush tells you, You are more F*cked up than I already knew Big grin
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
JeffM
Posts: 7569
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 3:32 am

RE: Closing Argument

Tue Nov 02, 2004 11:13 am

"At the moment I don't have to worry about my job being outsourced, that is, unless FLC up and moves to India"

Falcon does not either, nor my trash collector. Service jobs are good... Big grin

FLC?

Don't assume things Eric, you know what happens.  Big grin You know nothing of my beliefs. Trust me on that.

It is o.k. for you to have liberal views at your age. Hell, if you didn't something would be wrong. Once you actually earn a living, (by that I mean making more in a week then what you can spend eating...) I'm sure your views will change when you see large amounts of your money being taken for some "feel good" tax.....

How's the basket weaving classes coming?
 
DLKAPA
Posts: 7962
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:37 am

RE: Closing Argument

Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:49 pm

Basket weaving classes are going better than the daily "Fox Brainwashing 101" classes.

And you know what? I don't feel any loss losing money to taxes. It's gonna happen no matter who you vote for.
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
JeffM
Posts: 7569
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 3:32 am

RE: Closing Argument

Tue Nov 02, 2004 1:00 pm

"I don't feel any loss losing money to taxes."

LOL....that's because you don't make any.
 
Kohflot
Posts: 941
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 1999 5:31 am

RE: Closing Argument

Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:09 pm

So does anyone want to counter Falcon84's original arguments without lobbing personal attacks?

Oh.. and one more to go in there..

Remember when the Bush administration told the EPA to take their report back to their office and remove the mention of global warming? That's right.. they're scientists too.....

"Families is where our nation finds hope, where wings take dream."
- GW Bush October 18, 2000

Ask why..
 
DLKAPA
Posts: 7962
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:37 am

RE: Closing Argument

Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:16 pm

LOL....that's because you don't make any.

Good point  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
redngold
Posts: 6673
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2000 12:26 pm

RE: Closing Argument

Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:47 pm

Falcon, Oh I look. I don't count yard signs, because I can't possibly cover the whole city. Since people drive all over the city I count bumper stickers. I see significantly more Bush-Cheney bumper stickers as I stated in my earlier post.
NW747400


Maybe that's because those are the people who can afford cars...


[Edited 2004-11-02 06:48:21]
Up, up and away!
 
BN747
Posts: 5344
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

RE: Closing Argument

Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:53 pm

If this town is the last liberal stronghold on a conservative america, then the future looks very, very bleak.

Ummm... can you spell 'C.A.L.I.F.O.R.N.I.A....? This a country-sized No-Bush zone.


And great post Falcon84.. and glad to see you how you are now vs when you were saying it looks like a Bush win a month ago...

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
DeltaGuy
Posts: 3965
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 5:25 am

RE: Closing Argument

Tue Nov 02, 2004 4:36 pm

And great post Falcon84.. and glad to see you how you are now vs when you were saying it looks like a Bush win a month ago...

He's a great flip flopper...but I think deep down in that heart of his (it's somewhere), he knows where this is headed...truth hurts, sorry kids. I enjoyed those times when they were there. Thanks steaksauce.

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
DC10GUY
Posts: 2590
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 5:52 am

RE: Closing Argument

Tue Nov 02, 2004 4:51 pm

Falcon84 excellent post dude. But you for got this one ... "If you don't mind American kids comings home to their families dead or crippled from fighting a war for oil your choice is clear"...
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
DLKAPA
Posts: 7962
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:37 am

RE: Closing Argument

Tue Nov 02, 2004 5:05 pm

If you don't mind a candidate who has polarized the nation moreso than any other time in history, when half the population looks down upon the other half because they are a bunch of "lazy flip-floppers," and the 2nd half of the nation looks down upon the first for being "right-wing redneck nutjobs," If you approve of a candidate who endorses these kinds of slogans,

Your choice is clear.
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
Corpsnerd09
Posts: 456
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 2:05 pm

RE: Closing Argument

Tue Nov 02, 2004 5:08 pm

Perhaps Cocoa Beach may be like that, but last time I was in Tampa I was surpised to find so many Kerry/Edwards Bumper Stickers in a county that not only voted for Bush last time, but I expect to also do the same this time. Same in Orlando. As for Broward County, I can't recall ever seeing a Bush/Cheney sticker and everyone I know who lives there is rallying for Kerry. In Miami-Dade, it depends on where you go. Hialeah, Little Havana, and other largely cuban communities seem to be cluttered with Bush signs, but enter any other neighborhood and Kerry will prevail.

on a non-presidential note:

Does anyone dislike Ileana Ross-Leghtinen? It's has nothing to do with her being a republican, I just don't like that lady. Oh, and Mel Martinez is EVIL.
 
Mir
Posts: 19093
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Closing Argument

Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:46 pm

I have made my choice. I will go to the polls tomorrow and cast the first vote I will ever make for John Kerry.

I will be honest and say that I am voting more against Bush than for Kerry. But that is the way it is when there is an incumbent up for re-election. A new president is always a leap of faith as to whether they can get the job done or not. However, what is clear in my mind is that Bush is incapable of running the country up to standards that I expect from a president. And for that reason, I will be voting to replace him.

The War in Iraq is what Bush is to be primarily judged on. Regardless of how good it is that Saddam is out of power, this war has been, so far, an utter disaster. And yet, it didn't have to be. Bush allowed politics to get too far into the war. He didn't send the required number of troops because he wanted to run the war on the cheap. This was a noble goal, but was never really realistic. We are now paying the price in casualties, both on our side and the Iraqis'. Bush had an opportunity to secure the country right after the war, but did not take the necessary steps, attributable mostly to a lack of planning. If the post-war planning had been as extensive as the pre-war planning, this could have been avoided. The borders could have been secured. The Iraqi Army could have been used (and paid for their services) to stop the looting and rioting. A government of Iraqis could have been waiting to start taking control right away. But this didn't happen, and once again we are paying the price in blood. And the Abu Ghraib fiasco was only shooting ourselves in the foot. Yes I know that Saddam did worse. But "at least we're better than Saddam" is unacceptable when you are trying to win the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people. And since it seems that this was not something limited to the troops, but condoned and even encouraged by the higher-ups in the Army, it is very serious. And so far, only the troops have been punished. They aren't the only ones responsible. And perhaps his worst failing of all: Bush turned what was perhaps the greatest amount of pro-American sentiment in the world into what is definately the greatest amount of anti-American sentiment. No matter what some here may think, that does not help the country. We cannot win the War on Terror alone, and alienating strong allies (Poland doesn't count) makes the task much harder.

With regard to Bush's social platforms, they are almost directly opposed to mine. I cannot in good conscience vote for someone who would use the Constitution to limit the ability of gays to marry. That makes the decision a lot easier, and in fact is the driving force behind the fact that I have almost always supported Democrats.

Bush talks about being accountable. So far, he hasn't shown it. He has refused to admit to mistakes that he made, and he has refused to hold members of the government accountable for mistakes that they made (Donald Rumsfeld and the Abu Ghraib scandal, for instance). It is only fair, then, that we as the American people hold him accountable, and vote him out. I do not worry about John Kerry being a bad president. He may not be the next coming of the Messiah (in my mind he's definately not), but he'll do a decent job at least. Bush has certainly not been a good leader, and thus he needs to be replaced. I may end up eating my words on this if Kerry turns out to be a disaster. If that is the case, the challenger in 2008, whatever party they belong to, will get my vote. But I've seen nothing in the past four years that makes me think that another four years of Bush would be good for the country. I choose to go with what think will be better (but do not know to be so) over what I know to be bad. VOTE KERRY!!!!

My two cents

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
DLKAPA
Posts: 7962
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:37 am

RE: Closing Argument

Wed Nov 03, 2004 6:19 am

And that post, ladies and gentleman, is what makes america strong.

Welcome to my RR dude!
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 17 guests